This is Chris Roberts, hes that little boy at the beach.
He is more the little boy at the beach, that after some time of building the castle saw that the base of it wouldn't by no way support the castle he wanted to build.
So then the little boy decided to remake the base of the castle, but by the time the base was done, the other boys castles were already finished.
Some time after the little boy finally finished his castle, a wave came... And his castle was the one that stood.
Star Citizen is the little boy trying to build a huge sand castle deep into water despite the constant waves.
He's got awesome plans of a fortress big enough to withstand waves, and the childish belief that this time he'll be able to complete them.
Star Citizen is the little boy trying to build a huge sand castle deep into water despite the constant waves.
He's got awesome plans of a fortress big enough to withstand waves, and the childish belief that this time he'll be able to complete them.
Meanwhile other little boys throw sand and make waves to shake his castle down. Though the castle keeps on building. As the little boy has the belief he will make it, after all, he has one army of little boys that make it possible.
Holy crap! I see now, @Erillion is the resident defender of StarCitizen with a couple thousand threads and posts. I hope he is getting paid somehow, that is some dedication! I need to contact this guy, we could use someone like him on the Marketing team!
Forgive my ignorance i was not properly introduced to the pecking order around here.
Now there's some great acting I'm not buying. Unless i'm losing my sanity around here, I'd have to be an idiot to not notice some things I just did.
Derek Smart is garbage and he trashing Star Citizen as a full-time job because he somehow has money and nothing better to do. Stop listening to this guy. He is nothing but a troll.
I am a developer and I can tell you the skills of development would give you literally zero insight as to if the business model is a scam or not.
As a developer I have to agree with this. What I don't like is the "scam or succeed" bit in the title. So if it doesn't succeed it must be a scam. Historically, many software projects fail.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
"You know I'm a dreamer, but my heart's of gold..."
I'm just getting back into coding after many moons away, and all I know is the more you change code, the higher the chance that "unintended features" will come in. It's even more likely when combining separate code into a coherent whole. I understand the whole "vision" and how scope creep can (eventually) make something amazing, but at some point your coders are reworking something for the 8-10th time and things just won't run as smoothly as they should. Yes, bug smashing is a part of the job, but with so many hands in the soup I just hope there's a ton of documentation. I fear he is killing his dream with "kindness."
I am a developer PR/Brand Manager and I do not think it is a scam and I believe it will succeed and set a new bar for the gaming industry. This title and company will go down in the books as the strongest foundation to further game development using crowd funding methods in the future.
I put my money where my mouth is and have chosen to not "buy ships" but, support CIG to the tune of 650.00
Developer, ey?
[Citation Needed]
You realize that BitBox could be BitBox as in Life is Feudal developer, right? In which case, I'd say developer or not he's got some decent credibility on the subject. If not, the other BitBox Ltd's that I find are like less than 10 employees. So, yeah, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Take it from someone who was once a Game Designer/Developer/Business Development Manager.
I have been a Lead C++ Developer for one of the biggest game companies for 18 years. My code is in at least a couple of hundred games that use the engines i worked on. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PR/Brand Managers know as much about game development as penguins know about flying.
Are you really that insecure about StarCitizen that you felt the need to defend this guy?
[Citation Needed]
Lol, so based on your forum post that asserts that your name is included in a game, we should believe you? I find it comical that you feel you stepped into a church in this thread yet seem to have been recruiting for one yourself for the vast majority of it. If you really felt the need to actually contribute positively to the thread then you probably would have provided some more objective information. Instead, you've resorted to just slinging shit from the opposite end of the spectrum, so congrats!
I did want to say thanks, though, I appreciate these fun and ironic posts/posters when they come in at the end of the week. It provides me with some amusement before the weekend.
As far as my feeling on SC, I think it's been pretty well documented and I actually took the time to link to an exceptional, objective, article from the developer of ascent which provides some of the most objective information that is/was available. If you care to talk about the technical limitations that are still outstanding which present significant hurdles for Star Citizen, I'd LOVE to hear about them, and I might even give you an "Insightful" tick on the post. However, you've contributed to this post about as much shit as I've contributed to the sewer system this week.
The great thing for the majority of us is not being tied up on whether it will succeed or not, that said... If it was a scam it's a rather stupid one, considering how high profile it is. In the end for folks like me, it's best to just wait and see, if it releases great, got a new game... If not oh well there will be other new games to play. Unless you're monetarily involved there's no reason to put much more thought into than that...
I've seen more thought and scrutiny put into this, than people put into things that actually matter; like elections. It's rather silly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am a developer and I can tell you the skills of development would give you literally zero insight as to if the business model is a scam or not.
Every developer has been on sinking ship projects. Hell, my 2nd project upon graduation was a sinking ship where the PM got fired. But I saw it coming a year before hand and tried to lessen the blow my switching to SCRUM.
I've also done it outside of work in groups before. If you're a developer you HAVE to know what I'm talking about and Star Citizen reeks of scope creep issues that aren't being managed. This will always sink a project.
Don't disagree but my (business) opinion is that @SEANMCAD is correct. "Knowing" that a project "is sinking" and "knowing" that a business model will succeed are two different things.
Now sometimes it becomes pretty clear one way or another - few were surprised when EQN closed I suspect.
And between the two extremes there is an unknown area were all you can do is hope that the planning (is there enough money to finish the game) and the financial modelling (will it bring in enough to fund further development) has got it "right enough".
Why does SC still have backers? In part because the likes of DS have been going on and on and on about it. Generating free media coverage for the game. And people who read his posts think "wtf" and check out SC. And they find vids and an alpha and developer vlogs and so on. And now an announcement that SM is launching. And maybe they go back and read again what DS wrote. And then they make their own minds up.
Its either a scam or their (mis)management team are delusional about how well its going. Or they have another plan which is to build an MVP and then either close the doors or sell it as a going concern. Hell, or all of the above.
I mean look at the timeline they gave us a week ago. Its already blown. They are either crap at estimating, crap at delivering or plain lying. They dont seem to have an honest clue when we will get anything.
The endeavor SC team took upon themselves is of such a large scale we are all but specks of dust in the wind. Same as our ramblings. Leave it to the community to never dissapoint into doubting the MMORPG future, becouse hope and patience is just too darn hard to archieve.
The only people that actually think this game is going to be what was promised are the paid shills, of which we have a few on here. You have a few rabid fanboys that already have so much time and money invested that whenever they get more evidence of failure they have to double down and try to convince themselves that they haven't wasted their efforts. The longer this goes on, the harder the fall is going to be for this game. I think Chris and his ego will drag this out to the point where it crashes and then he will blame it all on everyone and everything else but himself. Then he will ditch the project and leave his brother or someone to pick up the pieces. He has a long history of over promising, under delivering, missing deadlines and going over budget. This time though he has no one to answer to so he is really going all in. Should be fun to watch the outcome.
maybe not a scam but they are selling power before the game went even beta so even if they manage to get out a game version that has any interesiting game loops, the problem of sold power is something that can never be worked out in the end. This project ruined more in the community that you can imagine. basically it gave more power to the "evil" publishers due to spreading FUD among the kickstarters and ruines upcoming projects before they start. With the latest marketing tricks they pulled off, this makes CIG far more "evil" than EA has ever hoped to be.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Honestly I don't trust in a lot of games these days most developers are failing, doing stupid things in many aspects, not sure, if anything I think the game will be released (How good the game will be is the question.)
Im getting a new I7 system soon ill be able to test it .
The problem with this project is exactly why it is going to succeed. They lie and scam people to suck money out of them. And all the money they get ends up giving them enough to actually finish the game. It is highly probable that if they didn't lie and scam then they would never have raised enough money to make the game. Its one of those sad situations which actually ends up working in the end.
Unless developers state their background, education and experience, tbh post a full cv, then have access to the code, check it for days maybe months then provide a detailed report, you'll be dealing with assumptions only. If you study any project in the past you'll find an ocean of negative and positive assumptions pre-release.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
i fully expect star citizen to be as big a success as no man's sky. i expect it to have the same % of happy customers as no man's sky as well.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
I don't think it is a scam, it just seems way out of control. I also don't think its a good idea to put CEO, spokesman, and head of QA into one person. There is one aspect though, that I find a bit shady. The selling of ships this early (according to all those fans) in development.
i fully expect star citizen to be as big a success as no man's sky. i expect it to have the same % of happy customers as no man's sky as well.
I would say that the people who have spent the most money on this project are already happy. They have all sold their fleets for many times more than they paid for them. Thats why I have said this thing gets little to no buzz anywhere but here, because no one really cares about it as a game, at best its a platform for the speculators to buy and sell things and make money from things that dont even exist.
They ONLY thing this game is known for right now is the amount of money it has (allegedly) 'raised'. Then it becomes known for the delays and problems it has had once anyone who is interested enough to research beyond the amount of money they claim to have milked from people.
I am a developer PR/Brand Manager and I do not think it is a scam and I believe it will succeed and set a new bar for the gaming industry. This title and company will go down in the books as the strongest foundation to further game development using crowd funding methods in the future.
I put my money where my mouth is and have chosen to not "buy ships" but, support CIG to the tune of 650.00
Developer, ey?
[Citation Needed]
You realize that BitBox could be BitBox as in Life is Feudal developer, right? In which case, I'd say developer or not he's got some decent credibility on the subject. If not, the other BitBox Ltd's that I find are like less than 10 employees. So, yeah, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Take it from someone who was once a Game Designer/Developer/Business Development Manager.
You are correct CrazKanuk. I wear many hats. Actually that title is one given to me by one of the people here at MMORPG. I did not ask nor tell them to tag me that way. I did not mind at all so never really mentioned it to the staff here. My official title at the moment is Operations Manager. My job covers many areas in our company. I am not a code developer by any means but, my work covers top level strategy, design decisions, advertisment campaigns, PR and Brand management, Management of our appearances at PAX South/East/E3 and all that entails and all other North American business transactions etc. I also have a working relationship with Xsolla, Sean Bean and his management team for past work and future work that is scheduled,not to mention professionals across the industry including everyone here at MMORPG up to Craig.
I do not weigh in much in discussions around here but, I do sometimes and I was an active member here before I even worked for Bitbox Ltd. I do not spam or promote my company here other than when relevant discussions come up and even then, I respond within the context of the discussion at hand.
I do support Star Citizen, as I stated and have weighed in before at the fascination I have with the anti-SC people and their campaign. I simply responded in this thread since I saw a request in the title. I responded earlier in this post covering the fact I do not actually author code, but I touch almost every other aspect of game design and strategy, as well as being involved in most business related matters in Europe and North America.
So you can take my above statements as you see fit. I love Star Citizen and it mirrors the freedom and choices Life is Feudal:YO and our new and preparing to launch Life is Feudal:MMO share, not even mentioning we have also branched out into publishing for other small developers helping them bring their games to the market, as well as continuing to further expand the Life is Feudal brand by allowing usage of the name.
I love Star Citizen and I am excited to watch them develop the title. I feel what I posted earlier in this thread was correct, factual and spot on.
See you in the verse!
edit: Forgive me everyone for straying off topic but, considering someone in the thread was upset with my credentials I felt it was correct to respond.
I also felt the need to mention my company has expanded from a small number of employees as you mentioned to over 60 employees and we are still growing.
I don't think it is a scam, it just seems way out of control. I also don't think its a good idea to put CEO, spokesman, and head of QA into one person. There is one aspect though, that I find a bit shady. The selling of ships this early (according to all those fans) in development.
How else are they going to make the money they supposedly need for development. As I said, this game has more money for development than most movies. Movies are watched by all types of people, games like MMO's not so much.
My wife is a software developer. I have seen more projects fail than succeed. There are many reasons. Having tons of money DOES NOT mean it will succeed. What it usually means is there are no 'written in stone' features, etc. It also means that there is no 'drop dead' delivery date. Also, one person in charge of everything means his bias in judgement comes into play.
I think something that's overlooked is the dedication of developers in cases like this. For one this isn't a situation of a producer forcing a game upon a development company that stands as a substantiation, but rather a producer that is also the designer, developer etc... I'm pretty sure Roberts is very adamant on releasing his game, even if investors back out, they don't have the rights to the product itself. They have good lawyers, and contracted investors wisely.
I'm not a game developer, but I do work in the entertainment industry. This is a view based on my opinion in relation to my experiences of similar circumstance.
I think something that's overlooked is the dedication of developers in cases like this. For one this isn't a situation of a producer forcing a game upon a development company that stands as a substantiation, but rather a producer that is also the designer, developer etc... I'm pretty sure Roberts is very adamant on releasing his game, even if investors back out, they don't have the rights to the product itself. They have good lawyers, and contracted investors wisely.
I'm not a game developer, but I do work in the entertainment industry. This is a view based on my opinion in relation to my experiences of similar circumstance.
It doesn't matter how dedicated the developers are. That is a fallacy. My wife has worked with many other developers, that were dedicated, but the projects ultimately failed. This has to do with sliding features, no set time lines, the management who don't hold people's feet to the fire to get things done, Management who are clueless in project management, Management that does not cut unrealistic goals. I could go on. All of these seem to be plaguing CS.
I think something that's overlooked is the dedication of developers in cases like this. For one this isn't a situation of a producer forcing a game upon a development company that stands as a substantiation, but rather a producer that is also the designer, developer etc... I'm pretty sure Roberts is very adamant on releasing his game, even if investors back out, they don't have the rights to the product itself. They have good lawyers, and contracted investors wisely.
I'm not a game developer, but I do work in the entertainment industry. This is a view based on my opinion in relation to my experiences of similar circumstance.
It doesn't matter how dedicated the developers are. That is a fallacy. My wife has worked with many other developers, that were dedicated, but the projects ultimately failed. This has to do with sliding features, no set time lines, the management who don't hold people's feet to the fire to get things done, Management who are clueless in project management, Management that does not cut unrealistic goals. I could go on. All of these seem to be plaguing CS.
Good point of view. I'd rather not form an opinion on management as I can't see what they are doing personally, only what is reflected by public view.
Call me an optimist?
I'm not challenging you in anyway, but curious of supporting arguments to your claim. Mind elaborating? Example question: What evidence is there of mis-management? In what way are they clueless?
I'm curious, as a potential customer to this company and personal curiosity for sake of curiosity.
botrytis said: Having tons of money DOES NOT mean it will succeed.
Uhhh it kinda does. See your follow up post, even if whatever mistakes imagine Star Marine rewrite cost on funds and so on, due whatever reasons, they do cost TIME, as you certainly know in development time is money. So they can afford with the continuous crowdfund what a game with a fixed budget can't; they have a margin on this aspect that does counter those type of situations that many do not have.
Comments
He's got awesome plans of a fortress big enough to withstand waves, and the childish belief that this time he'll be able to complete them.
Now there's some great acting I'm not buying.
As a developer I have to agree with this. What I don't like is the "scam or succeed" bit in the title. So if it doesn't succeed it must be a scam. Historically, many software projects fail.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'm just getting back into coding after many moons away, and all I know is the more you change code, the higher the chance that "unintended features" will come in. It's even more likely when combining separate code into a coherent whole. I understand the whole "vision" and how scope creep can (eventually) make something amazing, but at some point your coders are reworking something for the 8-10th time and things just won't run as smoothly as they should. Yes, bug smashing is a part of the job, but with so many hands in the soup I just hope there's a ton of documentation. I fear he is killing his dream with "kindness."
Lol, so based on your forum post that asserts that your name is included in a game, we should believe you? I find it comical that you feel you stepped into a church in this thread yet seem to have been recruiting for one yourself for the vast majority of it. If you really felt the need to actually contribute positively to the thread then you probably would have provided some more objective information. Instead, you've resorted to just slinging shit from the opposite end of the spectrum, so congrats!
I did want to say thanks, though, I appreciate these fun and ironic posts/posters when they come in at the end of the week. It provides me with some amusement before the weekend.
As far as my feeling on SC, I think it's been pretty well documented and I actually took the time to link to an exceptional, objective, article from the developer of ascent which provides some of the most objective information that is/was available. If you care to talk about the technical limitations that are still outstanding which present significant hurdles for Star Citizen, I'd LOVE to hear about them, and I might even give you an "Insightful" tick on the post. However, you've contributed to this post about as much shit as I've contributed to the sewer system this week.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I've seen more thought and scrutiny put into this, than people put into things that actually matter; like elections. It's rather silly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now sometimes it becomes pretty clear one way or another - few were surprised when EQN closed I suspect.
And between the two extremes there is an unknown area were all you can do is hope that the planning (is there enough money to finish the game) and the financial modelling (will it bring in enough to fund further development) has got it "right enough".
I mean look at the timeline they gave us a week ago. Its already blown. They are either crap at estimating, crap at delivering or plain lying. They dont seem to have an honest clue when we will get anything.
Leave it to the community to never dissapoint into doubting the MMORPG future, becouse hope and patience is just too darn hard to archieve.
This project ruined more in the community that you can imagine. basically it gave more power to the "evil" publishers due to spreading FUD among the kickstarters and ruines upcoming projects before they start. With the latest marketing tricks they pulled off, this makes CIG far more "evil" than EA has ever hoped to be.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Im getting a new I7 system soon ill be able to test it
There is one aspect though, that I find a bit shady. The selling of ships this early (according to all those fans) in development.
They ONLY thing this game is known for right now is the amount of money it has (allegedly) 'raised'. Then it becomes known for the delays and problems it has had once anyone who is interested enough to research beyond the amount of money they claim to have milked from people.
I do not weigh in much in discussions around here but, I do sometimes and I was an active member here before I even worked for Bitbox Ltd. I do not spam or promote my company here other than when relevant discussions come up and even then, I respond within the context of the discussion at hand.
I do support Star Citizen, as I stated and have weighed in before at the fascination I have with the anti-SC people and their campaign. I simply responded in this thread since I saw a request in the title. I responded earlier in this post covering the fact I do not actually author code, but I touch almost every other aspect of game design and strategy, as well as being involved in most business related matters in Europe and North America.
So you can take my above statements as you see fit. I love Star Citizen and it mirrors the freedom and choices Life is Feudal:YO and our new and preparing to launch Life is Feudal:MMO share, not even mentioning we have also branched out into publishing for other small developers helping them bring their games to the market, as well as continuing to further expand the Life is Feudal brand by allowing usage of the name.
I love Star Citizen and I am excited to watch them develop the title. I feel what I posted earlier in this thread was correct, factual and spot on.
See you in the verse!
edit: Forgive me everyone for straying off topic but, considering someone in the thread was upset with my credentials I felt it was correct to respond.
I also felt the need to mention my company has expanded from a small number of employees as you mentioned to over 60 employees and we are still growing.
Life IS Feudal
How else are they going to make the money they supposedly need for development. As I said, this game has more money for development than most movies. Movies are watched by all types of people, games like MMO's not so much.
My wife is a software developer. I have seen more projects fail than succeed. There are many reasons. Having tons of money DOES NOT mean it will succeed. What it usually means is there are no 'written in stone' features, etc. It also means that there is no 'drop dead' delivery date. Also, one person in charge of everything means his bias in judgement comes into play.
I'm not a game developer, but I do work in the entertainment industry. This is a view based on my opinion in relation to my experiences of similar circumstance.
It doesn't matter how dedicated the developers are. That is a fallacy. My wife has worked with many other developers, that were dedicated, but the projects ultimately failed. This has to do with sliding features, no set time lines, the management who don't hold people's feet to the fire to get things done, Management who are clueless in project management, Management that does not cut unrealistic goals. I could go on. All of these seem to be plaguing CS.
Call me an optimist?
I'm not challenging you in anyway, but curious of supporting arguments to your claim. Mind elaborating?
Example question: What evidence is there of mis-management? In what way are they clueless?
I'm curious, as a potential customer to this company and personal curiosity for sake of curiosity.
Instead of reading BS as the blog shared by the OP; check this out:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/30/what-to-make-of-star-citizen
Gives one very in-depth overview of the hurdles, mistakes and overall history of the project with some dev input and response.