First fix the dizziness, disorientation long after you stop using it and headaches then we can talk about its popularity. I would not as the technology stands today touch it. Improve it then we'll talk.
Until they have VR to the level of Sword Art Online people will have to adjust to the disorientation. Just like getting on a mid size ship for the first time, your senses and sense of balance have to get used to new input. If someone puts on a VR headset, starts feeling woozie after 10 minutes and quits saying, "VR SUX" they are the ones missing out. Just like on a ship, after you are on the ship for a day or so, your senses adjust. And the next time you get on a ship they adjust quicker, then the next time it is quicker, until the sailor is an 'old salt' and just gets his sea legs without any adjustment time.
And just like on a ship, different people adjust at different rates.
I believe that VR will be the same way. At first you can only handle an hour or so, then the next time an hour and a half and so on until you can wear them as much as you want. It is the same principle; your brain has to adjust to entirely new input than it has never had before.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
I would of tried it, but my computer already cost 900 dollars, and I would have to dump another 600 into it for a 1080, and then 600 for the set, yep im good. Considering the specs say it needs the game to run at 70 fps at 2k resolutions. So yeah when a 900 dollar computer cant handle that, I don't see many people having one.
The required specs for the upcoming Microsoft VR are a lot easier on the pocketbook, as is the MS-VR headset. My current PC (i5-3470, Z77 chipset, 16GB RAM, an RX-480 video card and Win10) will handle this, so I just need the headset when it releases. So I am waiting for MS-VR to release before I dip my feet in the VR pool.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
From personal experience with the Playstation VR that I now own as well as being a Store Manager for Gamestop who has sold every VR to come into my store: VR tech is awesome and worth getting. But...the games, ugh. It does need a triple AAA game or 2 to really get it off the ground. I'm hoping Resident Evil 7 will be one of those. I've just found that I don't go beyond 1 session with any current game for the VR as they just aren't deep enough and engrossing enough for me to do so. Heck, I see more potential with VR movies then I do games right now, but their is definitely potential.
The disorientation goes away after a few sessions. I'm quite used to the headset now and rarely get dizzy or disoriented anymore.
I would of tried it, but my computer already cost 900 dollars, and I would have to dump another 600 into it for a 1080, and then 600 for the set, yep im good. Considering the specs say it needs the game to run at 70 fps at 2k resolutions. So yeah when a 900 dollar computer cant handle that, I don't see many people having one.
The required specs for the upcoming Microsoft VR are a lot easier on the pocketbook, as is the MS-VR headset. My current PC (i5-3470, Z77 chipset, 16GB RAM, an RX-480 video card and Win10) will handle this, so I just need the headset when it releases. So I am waiting for MS-VR to release before I dip my feet in the VR pool.
That is basically what I have, just a 6600k and a 1060, but i seriously doubt that it will work. Unless they are lowering the resolution, in which case i would buy a 1440p ISP monitor before i bought that.
From personal experience with the Playstation VR that I now own as well as being a Store Manager for Gamestop who has sold every VR to come into my store: VR tech is awesome and worth getting. But...the games, ugh. It does need a triple AAA game or 2 to really get it off the ground. I'm hoping Resident Evil 7 will be one of those. I've just found that I don't go beyond 1 session with any current game for the VR as they just aren't deep enough and engrossing enough for me to do so. Heck, I see more potential with VR movies then I do games right now, but their is definitely potential.
The disorientation goes away after a few sessions. I'm quite used to the headset now and rarely get dizzy or disoriented anymore.
Cant be that great, I live in a small area, and today there was already 5 of those head sets going for 100 bucks on criaglist.
From personal experience with the Playstation VR that I now own as well as being a Store Manager for Gamestop who has sold every VR to come into my store: VR tech is awesome and worth getting. But...the games, ugh. It does need a triple AAA game or 2 to really get it off the ground. I'm hoping Resident Evil 7 will be one of those. I've just found that I don't go beyond 1 session with any current game for the VR as they just aren't deep enough and engrossing enough for me to do so. Heck, I see more potential with VR movies then I do games right now, but their is definitely potential.
The disorientation goes away after a few sessions. I'm quite used to the headset now and rarely get dizzy or disoriented anymore.
Cant be that great, I live in a small area, and today there was already 5 of those head sets going for 100 bucks on criaglist.
The first experience is pretty amazing; be sure you are ready for it.
I've already found 2 "killer apps" in VR (both games), so I'm at least satisfied. Wherever it goes from here is just the bonus round, for me.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
In an era in which I personally have seen my collection of LP records turn from one media form to another to eventually being on a thumbnail drive in my pocket while driving by an empty blockbuster video store all in less than my lifetime I have to say this whole fear of a lack of homogenization is WAY overblown.
That you say that as a "web developer" is astonishing. JavaScript alone stands out as a fragmentation nightmare, let alone browser diversity and quirks.
As a tech industry we've learned nothing from the IE6 fiasco except to be the one who is the IE6. After all the years Google fought for an open platform agnostic internet they've ditched that in favor of Chrome being the new IE6.
If anything with the oncoming tsunami of zero rating internet we're more beholden to fragmentation than ever. That doesn't mean it will work. It will still cause problems and companies will still favor one platform over another.
In some ways it can work itself out. The weak are culled (expect PC exclusive/focused VR headsets to become rarer or die) and the strong survive in the spirit of competitive capitalism. That's often not in the best interest of the consumer or the industry as a whole. It's good for the top dogs collecting the money though.
I develop in .Net, SQL Server and SharePoint. However that or javascript aint got shit to do with the fact that anyone who pays attention to technology knows full well 10 years is a goddamn lifetime.
CDs hit the market in 1986ish they were pretty much completely gone 20 years later and CDs where a HUGE hit.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Lets take your favorite game ever... ELITE DANGEROUS...
If they don't have touch control support for the Rift when the touch controls come out soon, then we'll know that you're right, if they do have touch controls then I'm right.
Since you can play Elite Dangrous with an XB1 controller, touch control support won't work, right? RIGHT?
Elite dangerous has been on the market foooorrr... oh.. hmmm.. Early 2015 at least....
so then there isnt a problem with new content. right?
here is the proposition you and others are making -There isnt enough high end content
now here is what you are saying now -what about Elite Dangerous
I might suggest to you to think about what your saying....
now..would it be helpful if I took out some time and did some research for you to find all the titles that are known to be in current development and when they started? because this conversation is stupid.
Now you're obfuscating. Elite dangerous release in 2015 before there was any mention of touch controls - but it does have xbox control support, according to you, they'd have to rewrite the whole game... thats what you said WORD FOR WORD.
Thats what you said SEAN. I'm giving you an out by stating if they HAVE Rift touch control support when they release then you are wrong. You realize you're wrong right?
And just for the record, I have a feeling you're going to be sad, because Elite Dangerous does use the Vive touch controllers just fine.....
here is my homework assignment for you.
Go find out how many games specifically designed for the Wii controller existed on the year the console was released. then look at how many games where specifically designed for those controllers 2 years after its released.
Do the same exercise for the original Xbox.
------------------------------------------- When SharePoint first came out no large enterprise was using it, now its nearly everywhere. I wonder why. actually no, I know why. ------------------------------------------- What is being suggested to me is that the existing content (which would include Elite Dangerous) is not good enough. so what is the detailed question put to me? where is the content that is better than elite dangerous or where is the content that is like elite dangerous? I am not sure which I am being asked.
------------------------------------------- there is something called 'early adpoters' that means when a product is out some developers take the risk and start developing against APIs that are known to be unstable. Most developers do not. In the area of Sharepoint and Siliverlight I LITERALLY did exactly that. i started developing on those platforms early, we knew it was a risk, the company I worked for didnt have assignements for that but were willing to take the risk to get ahead of the curve. As it turns out for Silverlight it didnt work out for them. So expecting 100% of all companies including Froniter to not be earlier adopters becuase of the forumla I have illustrated is being idotic. In short, Froniter is an early adpoter when it comes to VR
Do your own homework.
And Elite Dangerous isn't good enough. I'm glad you see that too.
Aside from that though it's quite easy to see that you're changing your argument because you're full of it.
You said it couldn't be done. I easily and quite quickly proved you wrong WITH YOUR FAVORITE GAME LOL
a few things.
1. I was ASKING not SAYING is Elite Dangerous good enough. 2. If you consider Elite Dangerous not good enough then why in the fuck are you using it as an example of a VR game that will bring in the masses? We are talking about games of which people like yourself feel is needed in the VR market place. Now YOU tell me what the fuck game that entails so that I can at least address it rather than this randomize bullshit. Its just too unspecific kind like your Mark Z statement of which the time frame in question is unknown but you apply it to be something randomly
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Lets take your favorite game ever... ELITE DANGEROUS...
If they don't have touch control support for the Rift when the touch controls come out soon, then we'll know that you're right, if they do have touch controls then I'm right.
Since you can play Elite Dangrous with an XB1 controller, touch control support won't work, right? RIGHT?
Elite dangerous has been on the market foooorrr... oh.. hmmm.. Early 2015 at least....
so then there isnt a problem with new content. right?
here is the proposition you and others are making -There isnt enough high end content
now here is what you are saying now -what about Elite Dangerous
I might suggest to you to think about what your saying....
now..would it be helpful if I took out some time and did some research for you to find all the titles that are known to be in current development and when they started? because this conversation is stupid.
Now you're obfuscating. Elite dangerous release in 2015 before there was any mention of touch controls - but it does have xbox control support, according to you, they'd have to rewrite the whole game... thats what you said WORD FOR WORD.
Thats what you said SEAN. I'm giving you an out by stating if they HAVE Rift touch control support when they release then you are wrong. You realize you're wrong right?
And just for the record, I have a feeling you're going to be sad, because Elite Dangerous does use the Vive touch controllers just fine.....
here is my homework assignment for you.
Go find out how many games specifically designed for the Wii controller existed on the year the console was released. then look at how many games where specifically designed for those controllers 2 years after its released.
Do the same exercise for the original Xbox.
------------------------------------------- When SharePoint first came out no large enterprise was using it, now its nearly everywhere. I wonder why. actually no, I know why. ------------------------------------------- What is being suggested to me is that the existing content (which would include Elite Dangerous) is not good enough. so what is the detailed question put to me? where is the content that is better than elite dangerous or where is the content that is like elite dangerous? I am not sure which I am being asked.
------------------------------------------- there is something called 'early adpoters' that means when a product is out some developers take the risk and start developing against APIs that are known to be unstable. Most developers do not. In the area of Sharepoint and Siliverlight I LITERALLY did exactly that. i started developing on those platforms early, we knew it was a risk, the company I worked for didnt have assignements for that but were willing to take the risk to get ahead of the curve. As it turns out for Silverlight it didnt work out for them. So expecting 100% of all companies including Froniter to not be earlier adopters becuase of the forumla I have illustrated is being idotic. In short, Froniter is an early adpoter when it comes to VR
Do your own homework.
And Elite Dangerous isn't good enough. I'm glad you see that too.
Aside from that though it's quite easy to see that you're changing your argument because you're full of it.
You said it couldn't be done. I easily and quite quickly proved you wrong WITH YOUR FAVORITE GAME LOL
a few things.
1. I was ASKING not SAYING is Elite Dangerous good enough. 2. If you consider Elite Dangerous not good enough then why in the fuck are you using it as an example of a VR game that will bring in the masses? We are talking about games of which people like yourself feel is needed in the VR market place. Now YOU tell me what the fuck game that entails so that I can at least address it rather than this randomize bullshit. Its just too unspecific kind like your Mark Z statement of which the time frame in question is unknown but you apply it to be something randomly
you're not even trying to refute your original point now. Remember your point "You cannot start development on a game that uses an XB1 controller because if they add touch controls later you have to start from scratch rebuilding the game" That was what you said. In these responses I specifically addressed that issue. Not another point, not Mark Z, not anything other than that. I showed you a game (your favorite one) that launched before there was 1) A consumer set 2) Any touch controls
and showed you that they indeed were able to run the game on both the Development kit headsets, using and XB1 control, a M&K and that they have touch control support too - (for the vive). This clearly disproves your assertion that it is "virtually impossible".
To that end and that end alone you should comment. Not about previous conversations that I've already proven time and again you have no solid grasp on understanding my point. Stick to one succinct topic.
Lets take your favorite game ever... ELITE DANGEROUS...
If they don't have touch control support for the Rift when the touch controls come out soon, then we'll know that you're right, if they do have touch controls then I'm right.
Since you can play Elite Dangrous with an XB1 controller, touch control support won't work, right? RIGHT?
Elite dangerous has been on the market foooorrr... oh.. hmmm.. Early 2015 at least....
so then there isnt a problem with new content. right?
here is the proposition you and others are making -There isnt enough high end content
now here is what you are saying now -what about Elite Dangerous
I might suggest to you to think about what your saying....
now..would it be helpful if I took out some time and did some research for you to find all the titles that are known to be in current development and when they started? because this conversation is stupid.
Now you're obfuscating. Elite dangerous release in 2015 before there was any mention of touch controls - but it does have xbox control support, according to you, they'd have to rewrite the whole game... thats what you said WORD FOR WORD.
Thats what you said SEAN. I'm giving you an out by stating if they HAVE Rift touch control support when they release then you are wrong. You realize you're wrong right?
And just for the record, I have a feeling you're going to be sad, because Elite Dangerous does use the Vive touch controllers just fine.....
here is my homework assignment for you.
Go find out how many games specifically designed for the Wii controller existed on the year the console was released. then look at how many games where specifically designed for those controllers 2 years after its released.
Do the same exercise for the original Xbox.
------------------------------------------- When SharePoint first came out no large enterprise was using it, now its nearly everywhere. I wonder why. actually no, I know why. ------------------------------------------- What is being suggested to me is that the existing content (which would include Elite Dangerous) is not good enough. so what is the detailed question put to me? where is the content that is better than elite dangerous or where is the content that is like elite dangerous? I am not sure which I am being asked.
------------------------------------------- there is something called 'early adpoters' that means when a product is out some developers take the risk and start developing against APIs that are known to be unstable. Most developers do not. In the area of Sharepoint and Siliverlight I LITERALLY did exactly that. i started developing on those platforms early, we knew it was a risk, the company I worked for didnt have assignements for that but were willing to take the risk to get ahead of the curve. As it turns out for Silverlight it didnt work out for them. So expecting 100% of all companies including Froniter to not be earlier adopters becuase of the forumla I have illustrated is being idotic. In short, Froniter is an early adpoter when it comes to VR
Do your own homework.
And Elite Dangerous isn't good enough. I'm glad you see that too.
Aside from that though it's quite easy to see that you're changing your argument because you're full of it.
You said it couldn't be done. I easily and quite quickly proved you wrong WITH YOUR FAVORITE GAME LOL
a few things.
1. I was ASKING not SAYING is Elite Dangerous good enough. 2. If you consider Elite Dangerous not good enough then why in the fuck are you using it as an example of a VR game that will bring in the masses? We are talking about games of which people like yourself feel is needed in the VR market place. Now YOU tell me what the fuck game that entails so that I can at least address it rather than this randomize bullshit. Its just too unspecific kind like your Mark Z statement of which the time frame in question is unknown but you apply it to be something randomly
you're not even trying to refute your original point now. Remember your point "You cannot start development on a game that uses an XB1 controller because if they add touch controls later you have to start from scratch rebuilding the game" That was what you said. In these responses I specifically addressed that issue. Not another point, not Mark Z, not anything other than that. I showed you a game (your favorite one) that launched before there was 1) A consumer set 2) Any touch controls
and showed you that they indeed were able to run the game on both the Development kit headsets, using and XB1 control, a M&K and that they have touch control support too - (for the vive). This clearly disproves your assertion that it is "virtually impossible".
To that end and that end alone you should comment. Not about previous conversations that I've already proven time and again you have no solid grasp on understanding my point. Stick to one succinct topic.
dude!
1. we are talking about 'games that will bring in the masses' from reading many many posts here on this subject I assume the agreement from most people (like yourself) that such games are not going to be only controllable by an Xbox One Controller so I assumed we are wanting to talk about VR controllers not Xbox One controllers of which you have made fun of in a VR context. 2. so now despite you having made fun of the idea of an Xbox One controller as a top tier control for VR now you are suggesting that top AAA mega hit VR games should be controlled only by a mouse and keyboard or an Xbox One controller. 3. then you say Elite Dangerous is not a qualifier, is a qualifier, then back to not a qualifier.
I cant have this conversation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
As soon as a title I want to play comes to VR I'll upgrade and buy some goggles.
Thats the problem with new tech like this. You need developers to back it to work and you need people buying the product to get the developers. I have been reading reviews and I have not seen a game for VR that I want to play.
right so I am a developer (web and enterprise) and here is how I see it.
Pre-release of a product as a developer you are granted APIs that are work in progress. Great! a little risky because your not sure how much will change by the time of retail but not a big deal. but wait...its VR...oh really? well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did).
So I wait closer to retail.
ok now its retail, let me fire up my tools and get to work. great! ok so are you done yet? no why? because it takes 3 years to develop a game is why.
My response to this was "This is not how development works" To which you responded with the nonsense in bold below:
1. you dont START the project if you have no API for the controllers its literally IMPOSSIBLE to start without it. The only option you have is to make a game without the new control scheme. Trust me I have been in cases when developing on brand new technologies (at the time SharePoint) in which LITERALLY things where LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE, because the API required to do what you wanted DIDNT EXIST. and DID exist later. The product in question has to be in a fairly stable position before you can start creating content against it. PEROID. I know this from experience.
2. The control mechanics of Oculus Touch and HTC in a sense of geometry is very different then mouse and keyboard in what you can do and that does not translate the same to a mouse and keyboard in nearly the same way.
3. Creating a VR project today is Unreal is very easy compared to what it was a little less than 2 years ago. By contrast creating VR content in Unity a little less then 2 years ago was very easy BECAUSE of the API. As a developer 2 years ago you would have wasted a TON of work starting a VR project on Unreal, today. no problem.
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
As soon as a title I want to play comes to VR I'll upgrade and buy some goggles.
Thats the problem with new tech like this. You need developers to back it to work and you need people buying the product to get the developers. I have been reading reviews and I have not seen a game for VR that I want to play.
right so I am a developer (web and enterprise) and here is how I see it.
Pre-release of a product as a developer you are granted APIs that are work in progress. Great! a little risky because your not sure how much will change by the time of retail but not a big deal. but wait...its VR...oh really? well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did).
So I wait closer to retail.
ok now its retail, let me fire up my tools and get to work. great! ok so are you done yet? no why? because it takes 3 years to develop a game is why.
My response to this was "This is not how development works" To which you responded with the nonsense in bold below:
1. you dont START the project if you have no API for the controllers its literally IMPOSSIBLE to start without it. The only option you have is to make a game without the new control scheme. Trust me I have been in cases when developing on brand new technologies (at the time SharePoint) in which LITERALLY things where LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE, because the API required to do what you wanted DIDNT EXIST. and DID exist later. The product in question has to be in a fairly stable position before you can start creating content against it. PEROID. I know this from experience.
2. The control mechanics of Oculus Touch and HTC in a sense of geometry is very different then mouse and keyboard in what you can do and that does not translate the same to a mouse and keyboard in nearly the same way.
3. Creating a VR project today is Unreal is very easy compared to what it was a little less than 2 years ago. By contrast creating VR content in Unity a little less then 2 years ago was very easy BECAUSE of the API. As a developer 2 years ago you would have wasted a TON of work starting a VR project on Unreal, today. no problem.
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
I am talking about Touch Controllers, not xbox one controllers OR joysticks. holy balz.
at least try to pretend to understand.
and yes, its literally impossible to program against an API that doesnt exist for controllers that do not exist. and I am not talking about xbox controllers, wii controllers, mouse or keyboard, joy sticks, HOTAS or my dick. I am about about VR specific controllers like Oculus Touch and HTC Vive of which there is pretty much universal agreement with your clan is the controls that are needed to have working before we get get into uber AAA VR content.
are you clear?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
As soon as a title I want to play comes to VR I'll upgrade and buy some goggles.
Thats the problem with new tech like this. You need developers to back it to work and you need people buying the product to get the developers. I have been reading reviews and I have not seen a game for VR that I want to play.
right so I am a developer (web and enterprise) and here is how I see it.
Pre-release of a product as a developer you are granted APIs that are work in progress. Great! a little risky because your not sure how much will change by the time of retail but not a big deal. but wait...its VR...oh really? well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did).
So I wait closer to retail.
ok now its retail, let me fire up my tools and get to work. great! ok so are you done yet? no why? because it takes 3 years to develop a game is why.
My response to this was "This is not how development works" To which you responded with the nonsense in bold below:
1. you dont START the project if you have no API for the controllers its literally IMPOSSIBLE to start without it. The only option you have is to make a game without the new control scheme. Trust me I have been in cases when developing on brand new technologies (at the time SharePoint) in which LITERALLY things where LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE, because the API required to do what you wanted DIDNT EXIST. and DID exist later. The product in question has to be in a fairly stable position before you can start creating content against it. PEROID. I know this from experience.
2. The control mechanics of Oculus Touch and HTC in a sense of geometry is very different then mouse and keyboard in what you can do and that does not translate the same to a mouse and keyboard in nearly the same way.
3. Creating a VR project today is Unreal is very easy compared to what it was a little less than 2 years ago. By contrast creating VR content in Unity a little less then 2 years ago was very easy BECAUSE of the API. As a developer 2 years ago you would have wasted a TON of work starting a VR project on Unreal, today. no problem.
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
I am talking about Touch Controllers, not xbox one controllers OR joysticks. holy balz.
at least try to pretend to understand.
and yes, its literally impossible to program against an API that doesnt exist for controllers that do not exist. and I am not talking about xbox controllers, wii controllers, mouse or keyboard, joy sticks, HOTAS or my dick. I am about about VR specific controllers like Oculus Touch and HTC Vive of which there is pretty much universal agreement with your clan is the controls that are needed to have working before we get get into uber AAA VR content.
are you clear?
LOLOLOL so you're saying "they aren't going to create a game for touch controllers because they don't exist yet and don't know if they ever will"
READ YOUR FIRST POST. The one where you pretend to know of development, and state that
"well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did)."
You state simply people didn't develop games because they were worried motion controls would be added later? Thats preposterous. Now you're saying that you need all these APIs because AAA developers won't touch it without it -- but I showed you an INDIE DEVELOPER that was able to create a game and add it later.
The sad fact is, no AAA game is going to be created for such a small market. Thats why most games right now are just short "experiences" and nothing that took "3 years" which is the number you keep bouncing to for a development cycle, when in actuality games can fluctuate, and most of the "big titles" coming to VR next year are ALL PORTS. PORTS. Ones where they aren't REWRITING ENTIRE GAMES BECAUSE OF SOME TOUCH CONTROLS.
Give me something of substance.. you're looking foolish.
As soon as a title I want to play comes to VR I'll upgrade and buy some goggles.
Thats the problem with new tech like this. You need developers to back it to work and you need people buying the product to get the developers. I have been reading reviews and I have not seen a game for VR that I want to play.
right so I am a developer (web and enterprise) and here is how I see it.
Pre-release of a product as a developer you are granted APIs that are work in progress. Great! a little risky because your not sure how much will change by the time of retail but not a big deal. but wait...its VR...oh really? well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did).
So I wait closer to retail.
ok now its retail, let me fire up my tools and get to work. great! ok so are you done yet? no why? because it takes 3 years to develop a game is why.
My response to this was "This is not how development works" To which you responded with the nonsense in bold below:
1. you dont START the project if you have no API for the controllers its literally IMPOSSIBLE to start without it. The only option you have is to make a game without the new control scheme. Trust me I have been in cases when developing on brand new technologies (at the time SharePoint) in which LITERALLY things where LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE, because the API required to do what you wanted DIDNT EXIST. and DID exist later. The product in question has to be in a fairly stable position before you can start creating content against it. PEROID. I know this from experience.
2. The control mechanics of Oculus Touch and HTC in a sense of geometry is very different then mouse and keyboard in what you can do and that does not translate the same to a mouse and keyboard in nearly the same way.
3. Creating a VR project today is Unreal is very easy compared to what it was a little less than 2 years ago. By contrast creating VR content in Unity a little less then 2 years ago was very easy BECAUSE of the API. As a developer 2 years ago you would have wasted a TON of work starting a VR project on Unreal, today. no problem.
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
I am talking about Touch Controllers, not xbox one controllers OR joysticks. holy balz.
at least try to pretend to understand.
and yes, its literally impossible to program against an API that doesnt exist for controllers that do not exist. and I am not talking about xbox controllers, wii controllers, mouse or keyboard, joy sticks, HOTAS or my dick. I am about about VR specific controllers like Oculus Touch and HTC Vive of which there is pretty much universal agreement with your clan is the controls that are needed to have working before we get get into uber AAA VR content.
are you clear?
LOLOLOL so you're saying "they aren't going to create a game for touch controllers because they don't exist yet and don't know if they ever will"
..
I never said anything remotely like that.
we are done.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
As soon as a title I want to play comes to VR I'll upgrade and buy some goggles.
Thats the problem with new tech like this. You need developers to back it to work and you need people buying the product to get the developers. I have been reading reviews and I have not seen a game for VR that I want to play.
right so I am a developer (web and enterprise) and here is how I see it.
Pre-release of a product as a developer you are granted APIs that are work in progress. Great! a little risky because your not sure how much will change by the time of retail but not a big deal. but wait...its VR...oh really? well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did).
So I wait closer to retail.
ok now its retail, let me fire up my tools and get to work. great! ok so are you done yet? no why? because it takes 3 years to develop a game is why.
My response to this was "This is not how development works" To which you responded with the nonsense in bold below:
1. you dont START the project if you have no API for the controllers its literally IMPOSSIBLE to start without it. The only option you have is to make a game without the new control scheme. Trust me I have been in cases when developing on brand new technologies (at the time SharePoint) in which LITERALLY things where LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE, because the API required to do what you wanted DIDNT EXIST. and DID exist later. The product in question has to be in a fairly stable position before you can start creating content against it. PEROID. I know this from experience.
2. The control mechanics of Oculus Touch and HTC in a sense of geometry is very different then mouse and keyboard in what you can do and that does not translate the same to a mouse and keyboard in nearly the same way.
3. Creating a VR project today is Unreal is very easy compared to what it was a little less than 2 years ago. By contrast creating VR content in Unity a little less then 2 years ago was very easy BECAUSE of the API. As a developer 2 years ago you would have wasted a TON of work starting a VR project on Unreal, today. no problem.
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
I am talking about Touch Controllers, not xbox one controllers OR joysticks. holy balz.
at least try to pretend to understand.
and yes, its literally impossible to program against an API that doesnt exist for controllers that do not exist. and I am not talking about xbox controllers, wii controllers, mouse or keyboard, joy sticks, HOTAS or my dick. I am about about VR specific controllers like Oculus Touch and HTC Vive of which there is pretty much universal agreement with your clan is the controls that are needed to have working before we get get into uber AAA VR content.
are you clear?
LOLOLOL so you're saying "they aren't going to create a game for touch controllers because they don't exist yet and don't know if they ever will"
The early adopters have them and that is about it. Too many stories of headaches and disorientation have convinced many of us to take a wait and see attitude. It does not help that they are a bit on the expensive side and not a lot of the popular games support VR.
VR will be exciting when we get Star Trek simulation rooms.
I dont think that wewill ever get Star Trek simulation rooms .
Not true, you would be amazed what they can do with holograms these days, just a matter of improving that tech.
If a company X hopes to sell 150k widgets at the start of the year say ....
Superdata start the year predicting the year of the widget 1M sales predicted. And follows up with we got it wrong its 600k, nope still wrong, 450k, nope now 350k, nope now 300k, nope now 200k ..
And at the end of the year 150k widgets are sold ....
Did company X fail because it only sold a lowly 150k units rather than the predicted 1M? Or Superdata that demonstrated time and again that it can't forecast for toffee?
If a company X hopes to sell 150k widgets at the start of the year say ....
Superdata start the year predicting the year of the widget 1M sales predicted. And follows up with we got it wrong its 600k, nope still wrong, 450k, nope now 350k, nope now 300k, nope now 200k ..
And at the end of the year 150k widgets are sold ....
Did company X fail because it only sold a lowly 150k units rather than the predicted 1M? Or Superdata that demonstrated time and again that it can't forecast for toffee?
but here is the thing.
Company X is not telling anyone at all what their target is or when that target is (that I am aware of) 'it will take X to become profitable' its NOT a statement of 'we plan to be profitable and here is the date we target'
just like 'hey how long does it take to get downtown?' 'well about 15 mins'
the answer to that question does not mean the person answering even wants to go downtown, let alone go downtown now, later or next year.
When Wallstreet makes predictions on earnings they dont do it based on what the companies hope to make.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If a company X hopes to sell 150k widgets at the start of the year say ....
Superdata start the year predicting the year of the widget 1M sales predicted. And follows up with we got it wrong its 600k, nope still wrong, 450k, nope now 350k, nope now 300k, nope now 200k ..
And at the end of the year 150k widgets are sold ....
Did company X fail because it only sold a lowly 150k units rather than the predicted 1M? Or Superdata that demonstrated time and again that it can't forecast for toffee?
They didn't do the best job at projection and analysis for sure, but it can be hard to look past the buzz. There are a lot of factors including production orders that can factor in.
there is also some misleading statements here.
when projections like this are made they are often NOT made by the company in question. in this case Oculus for example. So the numbers are actually NOT Oculus 'hoping to sell 150k widgets'
its market anylaists making predictions based on many factors.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
And just like on a ship, different people adjust at different rates.
I believe that VR will be the same way. At first you can only handle an hour or so, then the next time an hour and a half and so on until you can wear them as much as you want. It is the same principle; your brain has to adjust to entirely new input than it has never had before.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
The disorientation goes away after a few sessions. I'm quite used to the headset now and rarely get dizzy or disoriented anymore.
I've already found 2 "killer apps" in VR (both games), so I'm at least satisfied. Wherever it goes from here is just the bonus round, for me.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
CDs hit the market in 1986ish they were pretty much completely gone 20 years later and CDs where a HUGE hit.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1. I was ASKING not SAYING is Elite Dangerous good enough.
2. If you consider Elite Dangerous not good enough then why in the fuck are you using it as an example of a VR game that will bring in the masses? We are talking about games of which people like yourself feel is needed in the VR market place. Now YOU tell me what the fuck game that entails so that I can at least address it rather than this randomize bullshit. Its just too unspecific kind like your Mark Z statement of which the time frame in question is unknown but you apply it to be something randomly
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1) A consumer set
2) Any touch controls
and showed you that they indeed were able to run the game on both the Development kit headsets, using and XB1 control, a M&K and that they have touch control support too - (for the vive). This clearly disproves your assertion that it is "virtually impossible".
To that end and that end alone you should comment. Not about previous conversations that I've already proven time and again you have no solid grasp on understanding my point. Stick to one succinct topic.
1. we are talking about 'games that will bring in the masses' from reading many many posts here on this subject I assume the agreement from most people (like yourself) that such games are not going to be only controllable by an Xbox One Controller so I assumed we are wanting to talk about VR controllers not Xbox One controllers of which you have made fun of in a VR context.
2. so now despite you having made fun of the idea of an Xbox One controller as a top tier control for VR now you are suggesting that top AAA mega hit VR games should be controlled only by a mouse and keyboard or an Xbox One controller.
3. then you say Elite Dangerous is not a qualifier, is a qualifier, then back to not a qualifier.
I cant have this conversation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
See in bold below
This is what I'm talking about.
You said you can't start development on games without the controller API's. Thats what you said. I said that isn't how development works. I told you that many games have added touch support later on without rewriting entire games. I told you simply that it isn't "IMPOSSIBLE" I pointed to Unity specifically that you say you use all the time, which, in that instance you should know easily that there are a lot of walthroughs on gamepade and controller support detection and VR integration.
I showed you a specific example of a game that has evolved without a complete rewrite because it's "literally not possible".
One of these days you'll learn that you can't continue to make baseless claims just because "you believe" them. Your beliefs are not reality. This is the reality of development, and if you have any questions you can talk to Frontier Developments, the creators of Elite Dangerous. I'm sure since you're a developer they'll be happy to entertain your questions on how they were able to "do the impossible" and add touch support for their game they released while Rift was still just a development kit.
at least try to pretend to understand.
and yes, its literally impossible to program against an API that doesnt exist for controllers that do not exist.
and I am not talking about xbox controllers, wii controllers, mouse or keyboard, joy sticks, HOTAS or my dick. I am about about VR specific controllers like Oculus Touch and HTC Vive of which there is pretty much universal agreement with your clan is the controls that are needed to have working before we get get into uber AAA VR content.
are you clear?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
READ YOUR FIRST POST. The one where you pretend to know of development, and state that
"well hold on a tick there is a LOT that can change during the hardware development stage maybe I hold off. I dont want to have to rewrite my entire code because they release motion controllers later on (which is exactly what they did)."
You state simply people didn't develop games because they were worried motion controls would be added later? Thats preposterous. Now you're saying that you need all these APIs because AAA developers won't touch it without it -- but I showed you an INDIE DEVELOPER that was able to create a game and add it later.
The sad fact is, no AAA game is going to be created for such a small market. Thats why most games right now are just short "experiences" and nothing that took "3 years" which is the number you keep bouncing to for a development cycle, when in actuality games can fluctuate, and most of the "big titles" coming to VR next year are ALL PORTS. PORTS. Ones where they aren't REWRITING ENTIRE GAMES BECAUSE OF SOME TOUCH CONTROLS.
Give me something of substance.. you're looking foolish.
we are done.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Superdata start the year predicting the year of the widget 1M sales predicted.
And follows up with we got it wrong its 600k, nope still wrong, 450k, nope now 350k, nope now 300k, nope now 200k ..
And at the end of the year 150k widgets are sold ....
Did company X fail because it only sold a lowly 150k units rather than the predicted 1M?
Or Superdata that demonstrated time and again that it can't forecast for toffee?
Company X is not telling anyone at all what their target is or when that target is (that I am aware of)
'it will take X to become profitable' its NOT a statement of 'we plan to be profitable and here is the date we target'
just like
'hey how long does it take to get downtown?'
'well about 15 mins'
the answer to that question does not mean the person answering even wants to go downtown, let alone go downtown now, later or next year.
When Wallstreet makes predictions on earnings they dont do it based on what the companies hope to make.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
when projections like this are made they are often NOT made by the company in question. in this case Oculus for example. So the numbers are actually NOT Oculus 'hoping to sell 150k widgets'
its market anylaists making predictions based on many factors.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me