What are some fun ways to introduce new abilities in a Horizontal Progression System?

Bestinna · December 2016

In a horizontal progression system, where there are no levels, what are some creative ways to give the player more abilities so that the player doesn't start off with every skill?

Wizardry · December 2016

Poster above,this is already done in FFXI.
Skills from certain weapons,such as the Mythic or Relic weapons.

Skills from NPC,yep again FXXi already does this for certain weapon skills.
As i already mentioned the Blue Mage idea/learning from the in game mobs.

We have also seen the AA idea done in games like EQ/FFXi.

I seriously cannot see any game doing it better than what FFXI did because i already covered all bases with the sub class which along with everything else i mentioned allows you to pretty much learn or use ANY spell/ability in the game.

Oh yes i forgot to mention the FFXi idea of ANY class learning from mobs via a proc signal.This would be more for buffs than actually learning a spell or ability,example higher critical rates or higher magic dmg ,magic resistance ,speed etc etc.You had to load in your build for buffs.

There is no such thing as creating your own spell or ability,that is obviously too o/p,everything will always have limitations to harness players back from o/p builds.

Poster above also mentions learning by doing things in game,i like that idea IF done right and not looking fake like some computer system but something viable you would expect in a real life role play situation.However now that i think about it,FFXI again ...lol already does this .As you skillup your weapon by using it you gain NEW weapon skills.We could however further advance this by learning new defensive abilities by perhaps utilizing a shield more and more another way we have already seen by swimming more and climbing more you get better with those skills.Once you can swim or climb well enough you coudl access an area never seen before.

waynejr2 · December 2016

The Highlander Technique: You have to kill your fellow players and take their powers upon their death.

g0m0rrah · December 2016

exploration, learning from npc, learning by studying enemies, scroll drop, taught by a friendly character, so many ways...

Eldurian · December 2016

"As you work with an item various conditions that come about through simple use may allow you to unlock certain skills. You might also find skills by seeking out various teachers of that style of weapon and studying with them. If the skill you earn was with an item you have a full set of abilities in already, you'll be able to swap out that ability for an existing ability, allowing you to customize your combat style with that item to your personal preferences. If it is an item you are untrained in, there may still be open ability slots allowing you to actually become more effective with that particular item."

In Guild Wars 1 I remember there was a skill you used to capture a skill from a defeated boss. This is how you got "elite" skills (Really good skills but you were only allowed 1 per build.)

I think that's a good system but it could be expanded upon. More mundane skills could be earned through simple usage of a weapon. Some other skills you might learn through a particular feat. For instance you might earn a climbing skill by summiting and certain mountain or a tracking skill by killing a particularly elusive creature.

As mentioned in the quoted passage I really like the idea of teachers. You might go to a renowned master dwarven smith and complete a certain task in their smithy in order to gain a new crafting technique or seek out the master of a certain combat style that teaches some special moves in their combat school.

They key with a horizontal progression system of course is that none of these skills can make your build inherently more powerful. You would simply have to swap them out with older skills of equal value (Even if you don't exactly value them equally for the particular build you want to run.)

Ultimately the world should be populated with hundreds of skills you can earn in various ways. Most of those ways being more interesting than "Kill 50 goblins."

Bestinna · December 2016

g0m0rrah said:

exploration, learning from npc, learning by studying enemies, scroll drop, taught by a friendly character, so many ways...

learning from npcs/friendly character (same thing?) and scrolls kind of sound boring and basic. how would you learn a triple slash/fireball ability, for example, through an enemy/exploration exactly?

Wizardry · December 2016

sub class system and the idea of the FFXi class "Blue Mage"

The Blue mage learns it's spells/abilities from the mobs in the game by killing them and then a % chance to learn the ability skill after the kill.The only bummer was that Square really dummed down the same skills the mobs used to where they almost felt fake,so i would like to see the exact same idea but with the exact same ability or spell.

Eldurian · December 2016

Bestinna said:

how would you learn a triple slash/fireball ability, for example, through an enemy/exploration exactly?

Well from an enemy it makes total sense. You see an enemy using a tactic and then adapt it for your own useage. This kind of thing happens in the real world all the time. People study their enemy and then adapt. I remember in my first Open World PvP war we adapted so many of our enemy's techniques that our clans eventually became very similar in many regards, which was super obvious when we eventually became allies. I literally learned how to fight from my enemies. A more historical example is how Carthage influenced early Rome through their conflicts with them and you can see Carthaginian influences in their culture and combat style for hundreds of years after.

Exploration to learn combat skills doesn't make a huge amount of sense unless it's a pilgrimage to fight a particular enemy or study under a particular master. Exploration to learn more exploration related skills makes sense though.

Nilden · December 2016

Let players create their own skills and spells. Like the mage college in Oblivion only more robust and for every skill not just magic.

Distopia · December 2016

This would be something that's easier to pull off in single player games, since MMO players seem to be against the idea of NPC interaction or questing to accomplish skill increases. That said a system similar to Risen's faction system would work. Different factions offer the teaching of different types of skill lines.

Monks to work with for hand to hand or staff fighting, mage's to learn magic/spells from, warriors to learn different types of weapons skills, assassins or thieves to learn stealth/rogue skills from, so on so forth. Instead of a level grind everyone would be on a lvl playing field more or less. The schools would simply add to a characters specialization.

Limnic · December 2016

The system in Ryzom comes to mind for a rather flexible one when it came to not only earning, but building skills since you could unlock new abilities that gave you access to ability components, which enabled you to modify the values of skills or fabricate entirely new ones out of the components you'd unlocked thus-far.

anemo · December 2016

Master, Student.

As you level a skill yourself you only unlock a subset of the abilities. After you max out what you can teach yourself (a couple of hours maybe), you can advance further by learning from other players or advance other's further by teaching them your subset of skill/ability modifications.

Ceironx · December 2016

Endless advancement is no good but if it is limited progression what you are thinking about:

Rather than forcing people to do certain things that they don't enjoy, like seeking information by talking to npc's,... I would create a gear progression system where players could define personalized skill-set, whether passive or active, in order to create more unique characters. Now the challenge in developing such a system would be the ammount of paths and the balance inbetween the possible paths a player can take. Which ofcourse asks for a incredible big budget or an incredibly wit dev team.

waynejr2 · December 2016

Ceironx said:

Endless advancement is no good but if it is limited progression what you are thinking about:

Rather than forcing people to do certain things that they don't enjoy, like seeking information by talking to npc's,... I would create a gear progression system where players could define personalized skill-set, whether passive or active, in order to create more unique characters. Now the challenge in developing such a system would be the ammount of paths and the balance inbetween the possible paths a player can take. Which ofcourse asks for a incredible big budget or an incredibly wit dev team.

This is exactly what is wrong with the current generation of player who have come to gaming. I want everything that I want. Why can I have a game customized to what I want? wah

Aelious · December 2016