The only thing dying in mmos and video games in general.

Crusadecrusher

Lots of talk on this site about the doom and gloom of the mmorpg genre.  

The fact is the only thing dying and becoming insignificant in mmorpgs and video games in general are these bitter old school wanna be know it all vets who are not able to either adapt or move on from a hobby that has passed them by. 

Those like me and others who have been gaming for 30 years even those who have been gaming for 10 or 20 years have either been mature enough and have the mental capacity to either adapt to an ever changing video game market or move on from video games all together.  

To those who have not been able to do either of these it's time to make that decision posting countless rants pouting about a crash, or how the genre is dying has been hilarious but now it's to the point where it's almost cringe worthy how desperate grown men can be. 

SEANMCAD

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

and to be clear I am singling out 1. MMOS and 2. AAA games

beebop500

MMOs are in great shape from a technical standpoint (i.e. graphics, smoothness of gameplay, server tech, and so forth), but that's about it.  In terms of the content and/or quality of MMOs, they are absolutely lagging behind.  Sure, there are some beautiful offerings out there, but have they held on to players for years?  Most of the time, the answer to that question is "no."  

Many vets have moved on because they're tired of seeing (a) 65,000 "new" F2P titles each week that are essentially copies of one another, (b) shameless cash-grab titles that are quite frankly too numerous to list here (start with BDO and BnS and work your way down), (c) forced group content and/or forced solo content that eliminates player choice, (d) the belief that simpler is always better (it isn't) and the trend towards making games for Twitter addicts, resulting in MMOs with 4- or 5-skill action bars and simplistic content......I think you can probably see my point.

Vets aren't leaving the genre or complaining because they're any less "mature" than you are, and you aren't "better than", nor do you have any more "capacity", than the numerous vets who are no longer playing MMOs.  I've been gaming for 30 years as well, and as much enjoyment as I used to get out of MMOs, the landscape I see now is bleak and makes me happy for single-player titles.  To suggest that people like me are somehow "immature" or "bitter" is ridiculous, and makes your own argument much weaker, even though I do have enough "capacity" to see where you're coming from.

SEANMCAD

beebop500 said:

MMOs are in great shape from a technical standpoint (i.e. graphics, smoothness of gameplay, server tech, and so forth), but that's about it.  In terms of the content and/or quality of MMOs, they are absolutely lagging behind.  Sure, there are some beautiful offerings out there, but have they held on to players for years?  Most of the time, the answer to that question is "no."  

Many vets have moved on because they're tired of seeing (a) 65,000 "new" F2P titles each week that are essentially copies of one another, (b) shameless cash-grab titles that are quite frankly too numerous to list here (start with BDO and BnS and work your way down), (c) forced group content and/or forced solo content that eliminates player choice, (d) the belief that simpler is always better (it isn't) and the trend towards making games for Twitter addicts, resulting in MMOs with 4- or 5-skill action bars and simplistic content......I think you can probably see my point.

Vets aren't leaving the genre or complaining because they're any less "mature" than you are, and you aren't "better than", nor do you have any more "capacity", than the numerous vets who are no longer playing MMOs.  I've been gaming for 30 years as well, and as much enjoyment as I used to get out of MMOs, the landscape I see now is bleak and makes me happy for single-player titles.  To suggest that people like me are somehow "immature" or "bitter" is ridiculous, and makes your own argument much weaker, even though I do have enough "capacity" to see where you're coming from.

in short

'vets' are leaving games like ESO to play games like Ark.

no other description as to the meaning of that should be required but around here it often is sadly

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

beebop500

SEANMCAD said:

beebop500 said:

MMOs are in great shape from a technical standpoint (i.e. graphics, smoothness of gameplay, server tech, and so forth), but that's about it.  In terms of the content and/or quality of MMOs, they are absolutely lagging behind.  Sure, there are some beautiful offerings out there, but have they held on to players for years?  Most of the time, the answer to that question is "no."  

Many vets have moved on because they're tired of seeing (a) 65,000 "new" F2P titles each week that are essentially copies of one another, (b) shameless cash-grab titles that are quite frankly too numerous to list here (start with BDO and BnS and work your way down), (c) forced group content and/or forced solo content that eliminates player choice, (d) the belief that simpler is always better (it isn't) and the trend towards making games for Twitter addicts, resulting in MMOs with 4- or 5-skill action bars and simplistic content......I think you can probably see my point.

Vets aren't leaving the genre or complaining because they're any less "mature" than you are, and you aren't "better than", nor do you have any more "capacity", than the numerous vets who are no longer playing MMOs.  I've been gaming for 30 years as well, and as much enjoyment as I used to get out of MMOs, the landscape I see now is bleak and makes me happy for single-player titles.  To suggest that people like me are somehow "immature" or "bitter" is ridiculous, and makes your own argument much weaker, even though I do have enough "capacity" to see where you're coming from.

in short

'vets' are leaving games like ESO to play games like Ark.

no other description as to the meaning of that should be required but around here it often is sadly

Agreed.  Thank you for the brevity, I struggle with that.  Lol.

I find it amusing when gamers of the OP's ilk claim they are somehow more modern/smarter/whatever simply because they eat up the terrible MMO titles we've seen over the past few years.  Those of us who have been gaming for years and actually paying attention, are seeing a God-awful MMO landscape.  

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Crusadecrusher

beebop500 said:

SEANMCAD said:

beebop500 said:

MMOs are in great shape from a technical standpoint (i.e. graphics, smoothness of gameplay, server tech, and so forth), but that's about it.  In terms of the content and/or quality of MMOs, they are absolutely lagging behind.  Sure, there are some beautiful offerings out there, but have they held on to players for years?  Most of the time, the answer to that question is "no."  

Many vets have moved on because they're tired of seeing (a) 65,000 "new" F2P titles each week that are essentially copies of one another, (b) shameless cash-grab titles that are quite frankly too numerous to list here (start with BDO and BnS and work your way down), (c) forced group content and/or forced solo content that eliminates player choice, (d) the belief that simpler is always better (it isn't) and the trend towards making games for Twitter addicts, resulting in MMOs with 4- or 5-skill action bars and simplistic content......I think you can probably see my point.

Vets aren't leaving the genre or complaining because they're any less "mature" than you are, and you aren't "better than", nor do you have any more "capacity", than the numerous vets who are no longer playing MMOs.  I've been gaming for 30 years as well, and as much enjoyment as I used to get out of MMOs, the landscape I see now is bleak and makes me happy for single-player titles.  To suggest that people like me are somehow "immature" or "bitter" is ridiculous, and makes your own argument much weaker, even though I do have enough "capacity" to see where you're coming from.

in short

'vets' are leaving games like ESO to play games like Ark.

no other description as to the meaning of that should be required but around here it often is sadly

Agreed.  Thank you for the brevity, I struggle with that.  Lol.

I find it amusing when gamers of the OP's ilk claim they are somehow more modern/smarter/whatever simply because they eat up the terrible MMO titles we've seen over the past few years.  Those of us who have been gaming for years and actually paying attention, are seeing a God-awful MMO landscape.  

Yeah if it's so "God-awful" go find something you enjoy.  Why waste your time focused on something that's negative in your life?  Clearly a lot of people have a different opinion then you and don't fine mmos "god-awful".  My point is I find basketball god awful you would never catch me in a forum crying about yet for some reason it's acceptable for grown men who find a video game or compete genre god awful to complain non stop on it. 

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Wait two games sold more than one game equals victory??  Lol wow

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Btw do you have a link for this?

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Btw do you have a link for this?

I did the numbers myself. I went to Steam Spy looked at the number of sells for Ark + Rust. Then I went to Wikipedia to look at how many games Witcher 3 sold for all platforms.

Thing is, there are other examples
7 days to die = 1.7 million
Kerbal Space Program = 3 million (I think)

oh never mind I am not doing to exhausting, the short is there is a TON of great games and they are selling. more titles in just the past few years then I have time to list. Only people living in caves doesnt know its happening

Phaserlight

It's not that I'm incapable of moving on; it's that what I like is still available and going strong for 13 years now. 

Even better that it's now playable in virtual reality.

I do consider myself an 'old school vet', but I'm not at all bitter; on the contrary: I'm at turns pleasantly amused and amazed at the way the video game market has evolved.  What's great is that my first choice is still accessible and provides that quality experience I've been looking for all these years. I'm not so distracted in the 'new shiny'; more interested in improving my game and getting the word out to players like me.  

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Bottom line is Destiny has made over $500,000,000 and it's only on consoles.  You could probably take you top 100 indie games and not match Destiny.  Clearly people are not leaving as fast or if all as you think.

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

The reason so many people have moved away from mmorpg into other games is because those other games are good. Not so much because MMOs are bad because they mostly have been unchanged for more than a decades. The same forumla that would keep these people up at night 10 years ago is the same forumla they are complaining about now.

However what is different is the other parts of the industry has moved on with BETTER gameplay. Thus overall games have been getting better, not worse. Its just MMORPG has been stagnated and left behind

the lagards are always the last the in room complaining

Lots of fair points here but at the same time I wouldn't say mmorpgs have been left behind.  A few years ago mmorpgs were almost in a renaissance period, countless new mmorpg were hitting the market games like swtor, gw2, ffxiv, AoC, Rift, Lotro and ESO all had their own niche piece of the mmo market each had their own thing they excelled at.  Granted all these games are "themeparks" and old vets typically lean more to the sandbox so to them these games are "stagnate" but I would disagree. 

I will be more concrete.

38% of all Steam games where released last year(or this year I forget which). The first year we saw a sudden spike in the number of Steam games just so happens to also be the year I felt games where SUBSTANTIALLY better and that was 2014.
So since 2014 until today and only those years there is occurring a major change in the gaming industry and one for the better and its all happening in the PC indie game market.

MMORPGs much like AAAs are releasing new games that is true, but innovative or even remotely different from anything they have tried before? nope. All those titles you listed are just that...titles...they are not actually new ways of playing anything, only very slight tweaks on the same old shit.

Well that's like saying every RPG is only slightly different than the last RPG.  Every new FPS is only slightly different than the last FPS.  Every new survival, RTS, Football, Basketball, driving, Moba, so on and so on is only slightly different and the same old shit.  Not sure how mmorpgs can be singled out here? 

the ENTIRE 'survial' genre basically didnt even exist 3 years ago. Which is my point
everything else you say it is exactly my point.

Given what is possible in games it larger than anything humanity has ever created. Every profession (just as one example) could be virtualized at multiple different levels of complexity and detail and be made highly engaging.

yet what do we do? another FPS with a slight twist its silly to keep doing that.

Well it's not silly if people still enjoy them...clearly people still enjoy a new FPS with a twist or any genre with a twist.  Until the consumer (not just a few who come to forums like this) stop enjoying those twist why would the market change? 

Here comes a bad analogy:

McDonald's has been selling burgers since 1948.  They have expanded and added a "twist" to their menu but the consumer continues to come back for the same burger they did in 1948.  Just like gamers continue to come back to the same FPS with a different twist since before 007 on the GameCube. 

no..

its silly

and now that indie developers are making those games with more of a twist guess what is happening?
thats right, people are leaving your dried up hamburger to play something new.

So you can throw logic at it all you want, the bottom line is people are leaving.
Ark + Rust = sold more games then Witcher 3 on ALL platforms

Wait two games sold more than one game equals victory??  Lol wow

lol..

no..

two indie games in early access sold more copies then one of the most important games of the entire AAA industry.

big difference. Witcher 3 isnt fucking RimWorld

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

Bottom line is Destiny has made over $500,000,000 and it's only on consoles.  You could probably take you top 100 indie games and not match Destiny.  Clearly people are not leaving as fast or if all as you think.

How much money the developers make is not something I really care that much about. I am not playing 'make the big boys rich' simulator. I am just illustrating that people are leaving Destiny to play Ark. PEROID. you do the future math on that.

I also think you dont understand that these indie early access developers do not spend as much money as Bungie to make their game either

DreadTooth

A lot of people were young when they played their most favorite MMO. Either still in school, or still single and sharing apartments. As one grows up, lol, they have less time to invest. To be more accurate, they can't spend almost all of their waking minutes in front of a PC.

Add in that PC players are becoming console players and the two servers don't connect if they do keep playing MMOs, longtime gamers quit altogether, there are infinitely more options in video games between MMOs and all other game types, and kids choosing a game have less chance of picking an MMO since there are so many options, it ultimately means less players choosing MMOs and more MMOs to split those players and more developers of varying qualifications creating those MMOs.

It is a crapshoot for anything good these days, whether population, initial development, continued development, IP ownership, you name it and throw some dice.

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

Bottom line is Destiny has made over $500,000,000 and it's only on consoles.  You could probably take you top 100 indie games and not match Destiny.  Clearly people are not leaving as fast or if all as you think.

How much money the developers make is not something I really care that much about. I am not playing 'make the big boys rich' simulator. I am just illustrating that people are leaving Destiny to play Ark. PEROID. you do the future math on that.

I also think you dont understand that these indie early access developers do not spend as much money as Bungie to make their game either

Haha how exactly did you come to the conclusion that people are leaving games like Destiny to play games like Ark when games like Destiny sell 100x more than Ark?  

I personlly think gamers can play both but clearly pick games like Destiny over the indie games.  But I'm just using facts that are available. 

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

Bottom line is Destiny has made over $500,000,000 and it's only on consoles.  You could probably take you top 100 indie games and not match Destiny.  Clearly people are not leaving as fast or if all as you think.

How much money the developers make is not something I really care that much about. I am not playing 'make the big boys rich' simulator. I am just illustrating that people are leaving Destiny to play Ark. PEROID. you do the future math on that.

I also think you dont understand that these indie early access developers do not spend as much money as Bungie to make their game either

Haha how exactly did you come to the conclusion that people are leaving games like Destiny to play games like Ark when games like Destiny sell 100x more than Ark?  

I personlly think gamers can play both but clearly pick games like Destiny over the indie games.  But I'm just using facts that are available. 

actually to be fair players of Destiny specifically very likely are not going to Ark but in general yes people are leaving these standard pillar games to play these new indies.

why? because I am not a special snowflake and its exactly what I did 3 years ago, thats why.

unless you want to argue that I am a special snowflake

when two indie games in early access combined sell more than one of the most important single player games for the AAA market on all platforms of which has been out for a good amount of time...

its a serious thing

Distopia

beebop500 said:

Agreed.  Thank you for the brevity, I struggle with that.  Lol.

I find it amusing when gamers of the OP's ilk claim they are somehow more modern/smarter/whatever simply because they eat up the terrible MMO titles we've seen over the past few years.  Those of us who have been gaming for years and actually paying attention, are seeing a God-awful MMO landscape.  

Who hasn't been gaming for years and what do you mean by paying attention? Plus don't be a hypocrite. You seem to be implying to have some position of superiority of your own...by seeing the MMO landscape as "god-awful". I've never had a problem finding a MMORPG to enjoy, which I've never really liked more than one or two of any given era. DAOC/SWG in the past, AOC in the middle, SWTOR/ESO in more recent years. In that sense things haven't changed all that much. 

Crusadecrusher

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

SEANMCAD said:

Crusadecrusher said:

Bottom line is Destiny has made over $500,000,000 and it's only on consoles.  You could probably take you top 100 indie games and not match Destiny.  Clearly people are not leaving as fast or if all as you think.

How much money the developers make is not something I really care that much about. I am not playing 'make the big boys rich' simulator. I am just illustrating that people are leaving Destiny to play Ark. PEROID. you do the future math on that.

I also think you dont understand that these indie early access developers do not spend as much money as Bungie to make their game either

Haha how exactly did you come to the conclusion that people are leaving games like Destiny to play games like Ark when games like Destiny sell 100x more than Ark?  

I personlly think gamers can play both but clearly pick games like Destiny over the indie games.  But I'm just using facts that are available. 

actually to be fair players of Destiny specifically very likely are not going to Ark but in general yes people are leaving these standard pillar games to play these new indies.

why? because I am not a special snowflake and its exactly what I did 3 years ago, thats why.

unless you want to argue that I am a special snowflake

No I'm not argueing you are anything but I will argue just because you do something doesn't mean everyone else is doing the same thing especially when facts point to the opposite. 

Btw how many copies has Ark and Rust sold?  A link is preferred here...

DreadTooth

I think there is also another possibility to consider.

Some people are more expecting, having experience games of considerable quality and not wanting anything less.

Other people are less expecting, and can enjoy games of moderate or less quality regardless of quality potential previously experienced.

The two will typically argue, to no end. You said this? Well I want that, so, that's that. You said that? Well I can do this, so that's that. LOL

SEANMCAD

Crusadecrusher said:

No I'm not argueing you are anything but I will argue just because you do something doesn't mean everyone else is doing the same thing especially when facts point to the opposite. 

Btw how many copies has Ark and Rust sold?  A link is preferred here...

of course not everyone is doing it. But if you do something its likely a lot of other people are too.

BTW. I am really rather insulted you didnt even read what I wrote on how I got my numbers. I did the investigation MYSELF. so what the fuck do you want me to do ? give you a link to Steam Spy and Wikipedia? or are you calling my work a lie?

here is your fucking links. please dont be so lazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher_3:_Wild_Hunt
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=steam spy

If (and that is if) you actually read the data you will see my conclusions where wrong.