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Healers, DPS is Part of Your Job! - Final Fantasy XIV Columns

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    I believe FFXIV needs a revamp to the group/role system. Every class should be able to DPS if you choose to do that. Being locked away from doing damage because i happen to like heavy plates or white magic is a little bit ridiculous. I'm not playing XIV for a totally different reason, but i always disliked how Square Enix treats the group/role system in this game.

    I hate when mmos force me to play the role i dont like because the class i want to play only has that role.

    I hate when players play healers but really want to play dps.  This lets do both thing is dumbing down the industry although I get that you prefer it.
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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    edited December 2016
    I only played like the first 3 dungeons as part of the storyline and the people were going in so rough that I was busy spamming heals left and right without ever having some time to cast anything else but Shell and Protect.

    I wondered how can someone writing for this site come up with such an extreme opinion as this:
    "anybody who says otherwise is wrong, wrong wrong."

    So I checked...
    mikeocd - Novice Member Member since November 8, 2016 Last Visit: December 9, 2016


    Welcome freshling, you should know that just cause you write down your opinion as a fact doesn't mean we will swallow that bs on this site.

    *edit*
    Oh I see someone writing for a newspaper trying his luck among people who actually know better.
    Yeah better go back to your newspaper for naive people.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    Better is better. More DPS is better. End of story. There is no arguing this. If you can't manage both, learn. If you can't do that, then it's not other player's fault.
    If you choose not to DPS, then you can't complain about the result.
  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 515
    Considering the reason i love playing healers is i hate playing dps sure another reason to have less healers to heal for people. i'm gonna start telling dps to off heal for me too it's only fair amiright???
  • chocolate-mousechocolate-mouse Member UncommonPosts: 73
    edited December 2016
    pantaro said:
    Considering the reason i love playing healers is i hate playing dps sure another reason to have less healers to heal for people. i'm gonna start telling dps to off heal for me too it's only fair amiright???

    And bring their own healing pots as well. I have run many dungeon where dps pulling before the tank get agro. They race in front and start wailing on it before the tank. So instead of healing the tank who can take the hits, I'm trying to keep the squishy up while the tank attempts to get hate back.  Problem is I see that many people get so familiar with the dungeons and are over geared, doing their dungeon roulette. They forget (or don't care) that some people are newbs, and are not lvl 60 doing a lvl 15 dungeon.  I stopped playing a healer just because of this mentality. I group with my husband. As a dps very seldom do we have an inadequate healer. Its the dps that go rogue mostly. I figure if I go dps that's one less doing their own thing .
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited December 2016

    waynejr2 said:



    I believe FFXIV needs a revamp to the group/role system. Every class should be able to DPS if you choose to do that. Being locked away from doing damage because i happen to like heavy plates or white magic is a little bit ridiculous. I'm not playing XIV for a totally different reason, but i always disliked how Square Enix treats the group/role system in this game.



    I hate when mmos force me to play the role i dont like because the class i want to play only has that role.



    I hate when players play healers but really want to play dps.  This lets do both thing is dumbing down the industry although I get that you prefer it.



    The problem is that DPS should never be considered a role because the entire game (from level 1 to cap and beyond) revolves around combat. It is a natural progression for all characters to be proficient as damage dealers. That doesnt dumb down anything, in fact it makes it better IMO. The so called "Dumbing down" only occurs when the company makes the game easy (mobs die easily, players rarely die in combat, things like that. Locking a class to a single role for no reason is one of the worst things ive seen in years in mmos.

    I think if you want to be the best healer you can be the best healer by focusing on that goal, but that doesn't mean i have to be a healer if i happen to like the same class as you. Multi role just makes the class system better overall. Let players focus on the role they want, thats better than saying, you can only become a healer if you want to play that class.




  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    They forget (or don't care) that some people are newbs, and are not lvl 60 doing a lvl 15 dungeon.  Its the dps that go rogue mostly. 
    I assume that is what happened to me. (backed up by the fact that they rushed into the boss fight while I was still watching my cutscene so everyone died)
    It was stressy to keep the dps alive and I don't see how I would be supposed to add more damage output to the party.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • AvarixAvarix Member RarePosts: 665
    The problem with Cleric Stance is it uses the global cooldown. There have absolutely been fights where tanks would have died on me in that amount of time. You used a Paladin as an example, but you should try it with a Dark Knight. The spike damage they receive is the worst I have ever experienced as a healer in any game. (This may have changed since the last time I have played, over 6 months ago) 

    FFXIV is one of the most finely tuned games I have ever played. Instead of putting the burden on healers, how about doing your job as DPS? I remember watching a Live Letter ages ago where Yoshi actually said the dungeons and raids are balanced without ever taking into account healer damage. So, what you're really asking for is not for healers to do their job, but to do extra because you're slacking. Players have been using healer damage as a crutch since their DPS can't pull it off, or don't want to. Either way, why should the healer be doing your job, as well as their own, without any type of incentive? 

    TL;DR 
    Do your job and let the healers worry about their own.

  • KeziaWalkerFFXIVKeziaWalkerFFXIV Member CommonPosts: 1

    Dakeru said:

    I only played like the first 3 dungeons as part of the storyline and the people were going in so rough that I was busy spamming heals left and right without ever having some time to cast anything else but Shell and Protect.

    I wondered how can someone writing for this site come up with such an extreme opinion as this:
    "anybody who says otherwise is wrong, wrong wrong."

    So I checked...
    mikeocd - Novice Member Member since November 8, 2016 Last Visit: December 9, 2016


    Welcome freshling, you should know that just cause you write down your opinion as a fact doesn't mean we will swallow that bs on this site.

    *edit*
    Oh I see someone writing for a newspaper trying his luck among people who actually know better.
    Yeah better go back to your newspaper for naive people.



    The condescension is strong with this one. I happen to know OP, have raided with him and played through A LOT of FFXIV content with him - he writes for a newspaper AND *shock horror* knows what he's talking about as he too plays FFXIV! FANCY THAT.

    As I said over on reddit, the amount of salt in these comments is enough to give me heart disease.
  • DisgruntlerDisgruntler Member UncommonPosts: 1
    Alright, so let's break this down in simple terms.

    When dealing with content, there's three components as to how successful you are at clearing that content: You need offense, defense, and mechanics.

    Mechanics aren't handled by role, that's just dodging stuff, get in the arrows, normal stuff everyone has to do. Not really role-specific, so it's not relevant to this discussion.

    Defense is very simple: Do you have enough defense to weather the storm of incoming damage? This includes tanks utilizing cooldowns to mitigate damage, healers healing, and so on. The thing with defense is that it's a very binary thing--either you have it, or you do not. More defense, by itself, doesn't make the encounter any less beatable. What more defense allows is leeway in either dealing with mechanics (I can eat this tank buster so I can save this cooldown for later/BLM, just eat that AoE, I can heal you through it) or it allows free time to do something other than contribute to defense (stance dancing for tanks and healers).

    Offence, on the other hand, is not binary. More offense means the ability to see less mechanics and take less damage. Incoming damage is generally based on timers or threshholds, and so taking less time means seeing less damage, and threshholds are going to be hit regardless of dps anyways. So more dps is almost always welcome, except when rushing a phase means a mechanic can't be dealt with properly.

    So let's take a simple dungeon as an example: Sastasha.

    DPS is just going to DPS there. WIth the exception of BLM, BRD, and MCH, the only options for damage is some varient of single target. DPS don't have any ability to speed things up short of 'be good at pew pew' or 'be bad at pew pew'. Multidotting is truly about it.

    Tanks have some leeway to affect things, Paladins and Dark Knights can swap in Riot Blade/Syphon Blades for a little extra damage, and Warriors can keep Maim up, and that's really about it. This is a little bit, but it's hardly a big swing.

    Healers, on the other hand...

    See, healers at this point have very high potency damage compared to dps, with no real ramp time. A scholar can out-potency a summoner or arcanist in the same gear because of the +10% damage buff they get with the same tools. White Mage's Aero, Stone and Fluid Aura hit like bricks, and even Astrologians can spam Malefic and Combust for great justice.

    At the same time, Tanks can be topped up to full with a single cast of Cure or Benefic. But SCHs and ASTs don't even need to worry about that, because SCHs have Eos Embracing tanks to full, and ASTs have Essential Dignity so they can even throw out strong healing without using up a single GCD.

    Simply put: The healing tools are a million times stronger than they have to be for the content, and the damage tools are as strong or stronger than DPS.

    This means that a healer will be spending most of their time sitting on their thumbs waiting for something to happen.

    Meanwhile, Sastasha can take up to 30-40 minutes to complete. An extra DPSer, however, can knock that down to 20 minutes -or less-.

    Healers: If you feel a dungeon is taking too long, remember that you have a LOT of power to change that. You have extremely strong dps abilities, some of the strongest AoE spells in the game, and the ability to burst heal that puts most MMOs to shame. With the mana tools you get, you shouldn't be afraid to use some of that mana to do stuff while you're leaping about waiting for damage.

    ABC. Always. Be. Casting. Overhealing doesn't help anyone. DPS ALWAYS helps.
  • CapnMawfCapnMawf Member CommonPosts: 1
    Even as a savage raiding healer who strongly advocates for healers helping with damage, this article gave me cancer. I especially like how you are complaining about being kicked for playing in a way other people don't like while simultaneously telling everyone else how to play. I don't think they should have kicked you if you didn't let anyone die (or really even if you did, mistakes happen), but maybe you recited this article at them while dpsing, that would excuse their behavior.

    You get what you get in PUGs. You're supposed to work together to clear the content, and chances are very good you're going to end up with some casual players. If you don't like it, make some friends and only run the content with them. Yes, healers have the tools to dps, yes, 99% of the game's encounters have way too little incoming damage to warrant full-time healing, and yes, healers all have some pretty solid aoe damage that can make those EXDR runs a lot faster. But that doesn't mean you should be talking shit if a pug healer doesn't dps or a pug tank doesn't stance dance for those sweet sweet fel cleaves. As long as they are performing their primary function, just ride it out and next time maybe get some friends to go with you. The 'slow' runs of most dungeons are 20 minutes, you're only losing maybe 5 minutes of your time from sub-optimal tank/healer play. Not everyone wants to min/max.

    I can't believe this was posted as an article. I'm used to seeing asshats on reddit telling everyone else to git gud, I just didn't think anywhere remotely reputable would publish this kind of garbage. I had to make an account here just so I could come tell you that your article is bad and you should feel bad.
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 573
    Healers should only dps when they feel comfortable and that they can. Nothing worst then trying to add your dps as healer and have the tank die. I don't think the OP has ever been in a suboptimal PUG. Like what said earlier, you don't like healers that don't dps then DON'T DO PUGs.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803

    As I said over on reddit, the amount of salt in these comments is enough to give me heart disease.
    Well you only just signed up to tell me off so I am sure your heart can take it that I offended your precious friend.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    CapnMawf said:
     I especially like how you are complaining about being kicked for playing in a way other people don't like while simultaneously telling everyone else how to play.
    Yeah I wondered about that too.

    I actually remember an ancient post about FFXI where someone said people have no clue and spamming that Dark Knight skill that sacrifices your HP is epic.
    He got the answer: If your team is asking you to stop using that skill then there are reasons for that and you should stop.

    If I'm healing and my team asks me not to add dps or stuns then I will assume that there is something special about the timing of their skills and I should not interfere.

    How hard can it be to adjust to the strategy of the party rather than enforcing your own style on them?
    Harbinger of Fools
  • TacBoyTacBoy Member UncommonPosts: 142
    While I *do* play a healer in FFXIV and I *do* DPS while I heal, it is this type of attitude that has me considering giving up on any PUG play ever. Because your opening line is true, I payed my money, I play my game, who do you think you are to tell me if I am doing it right or wrong. I may not do it the way you like, that's fine, don't play with me. Go play with a non-PUG that you know you enjoy playing with. Stop trying to fob your bad time off on me. Be an adult.

    Because I'm one and that's why I'll just stop doing PUGs rather than whining about it under the guise of journalism.
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Big reason I don t play this game, I almost fell off my chair when people were bitching out the WHM for not DPSing enough. Stupid design IMO.
  • ohveniceohvenice Member UncommonPosts: 3
    these comments are full of bad healers

    this article is 100% correct, it is everybody's job to contribute as much to the party as they can, and standing around with a finger in your ass while everyone is on full hp is not contributing. it's lazy, and lazy players are bad players.
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member EpicPosts: 3,368
    edited December 2016
    i always hated it , that IS FORCED down my throath and that healer dps is taken into account when SE creates raids ....ppl play healers to .....*gasp* heal , and buff , ocassionally dps sure , but i prefer the tank going dps mode that me going dps , is safer and i dont have to stance dance....(thats at max lvl)

    at low lvls as sch i dont need to heal at all , the fairy is the main healer there ...so i dps as hard as i can...and thats 1 nuke that barely hits for anything over and over ....but at least im pressing something ....dots on bosses sure , but meh ...
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    ohvenice said:
    these comments are full of bad healers

    this article is 100% correct, it is everybody's job to contribute as much to the party as they can, and standing around with a finger in your ass while everyone is on full hp is not contributing. it's lazy, and lazy players are bad players.

    Lol, healers heal, grab a brain. They shouldn t have to worry about dps and healing. On that note, if you think healers generally play with their fingers up their ass, you my friend would be the bad player, or a lazy, crappy dps.
  • ohveniceohvenice Member UncommonPosts: 3

    Soki123 said:



    Lol, healers heal, grab a brain. They shouldn t have to worry about dps and healing. On that note, if you think healers generally play with their fingers up their ass, you my friend would be the bad player, or a lazy, crappy dps.



    have you actually played this game? have you actually played as a healer? because as a WHM main, i can divine seal > medica2 > regen then afk for the rest of most trash pulls, if i feel like it. OR; i could do that and then contribute 20% of the dps of the encounter too!

    which of those sounds more helpful, to you?
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    ohvenice said:

    Soki123 said:



    Lol, healers heal, grab a brain. They shouldn t have to worry about dps and healing. On that note, if you think healers generally play with their fingers up their ass, you my friend would be the bad player, or a lazy, crappy dps.



    have you actually played this game? have you actually played as a healer? because as a WHM main, i can divine seal > medica2 > regen then afk for the rest of most trash pulls, if i feel like it. OR; i could do that and then contribute 20% of the dps of the encounter too!

    which of those sounds more helpful, to you?

    Yes I have and I hate the idea of healers dps ing. It is to me a stupid implementation. Maybe the way they implemented the fights a healer could be more useful outside of that lame rotation.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    edited December 2016
    They toned down the dps checks so healers don't necessarily have to dps, even in Savage. However they'd be idiotic to not be throwing out dps when they can, especially if they have knowledge of the fight and know when the healing won't be as stressful. In regular dungeons, healer dps really speeds up a run so they should be doing it, too, imo.

    But the game has changed from being tuned to require healer dps for some fights, so it's technically not mandatory for healers to utilize the dps portion of their class, regardless of how helpful it might be.
  • ohveniceohvenice Member UncommonPosts: 3
    edited December 2016
    Soki123 said:

    Yes I have and I hate the idea of healers dps ing. It is to me a stupid implementation. Maybe the way they implemented the fights a healer could be more useful outside of that lame rotation.
    maybe it could have, and i'd have been ok with it if that was the case. but, it's not the case and if you heal only then you're afking most of the time. that is lazy, and laziness makes you a bad player
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    This is an excellent article that makes valid points. Why must a Healer only be focused on Healing? Because everyone else is playing their roles WRONG! The tank is geared for crits and dps.

    The melee dps (bread the stupidest people in gaming) think their role is to waste the time and mana pool of the Healer. melee dps jump around the encounter spamming their AOE's and drawing the full aggro of all mobs. They break any and every form of crowd control, which they feel is an insult to their existence. Their true role is to NOT draw aggro, and defend the Range DPS, who are the true DPS at all times. Their gear should be survivable and NOT agro stealing. If you are wearing medium or heavy armour and are not carrying a shield, then you are not a tank. So don't look at the main target. Your role is bodyguard to the light armour wearing Range TRUE DPS, who are targeting the main target. The melee dps should keep adds off the Range DPS.

    range dps, if you are in any armour other than light, you support the melee dps. You can target the main target, but switch to adds on the Range TRUE DPS. DON'T draw aggro.

    ALL of you idiots, carry some mana pots and share the burden of keeping you idiots alive. And DON'T draw aggro.

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  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,029
    Back in the old days dpsing used up all your mana so you couldn't heal. Only in some of those extreme difficultie duties (or w/e the hardest level is) would you get kicked for dpsing as a healer or raids as they can go on for awhile. For just a regualr roulette I see no reason not to dps / heal as long as you aren't doing anything stupid like running out of mana or letting your team mates die.

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