Buying four kingdoms doesn't concern me so much as the comment regarding GM privileges. I'm hoping that GM doesn't mean what he thinks it means.
As far as the four kingdoms, there's no chance that one player could maintain them. Even with a large organized guild, I'm intrigued by the type of world that would be. I picture it to be a sort of grim world where non-guild members are forced to live underground. Could be kind of fun as long as the game mechanics accommodate.
It's not pay to win when you spend money to get a higher status than other players.
WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
I'm not sure what exactly comes with the pay to king $10k but I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more in-game advantage than just a status.
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
Treat Dakeru's post as sarcasm. Then it makes a lot more sense.
(The actual definition of pay-to-win varies from person to person, but "Spend money to get a higher status than other players" is the very definition of pay-to-win in most peoples' minds from what I can tell, including MMORPG publishers when you look at R2Games' investor presentation on the matter)
Yeah that makes more sense, he is usually pretty even handed...
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
It's not pay to win when you spend money to get a higher status than other players.
WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
I'm not sure what exactly comes with the pay to king $10k but I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more in-game advantage than just a status.
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
You are correct, no one is paying 10k for just a title. They're paying for a good portion of land of which the dukes, counts and then barons can live in. They also get to design a story driven world event, a boss (of which I'm guessing you'll only be able to kill a few times before it disappears), and a castle. There are a few other things as well such as a concept art of whatever they pick, a forum title, and some EP.
Is it pay to win? Well first you should consider what pay to win actually means. From the way I see it, pay to win means to pay for specific content that is required to win the game or to pay for items that allow a player to have extreme advantages over other players. I don't see anything in the ep store that gives players those sort of advantages. The only thing you can buy so far is some mounts(all of which will be able to be found and tamed in the world), prebuilt buildings, some furniture to decorate your house, siege weapons and wagons. If anything COE is pay for an early advantage.
How is winning defined in COE? As it stands currently, there is no way to win at this game, even if you spend 10k or 40k on this game, you will eventually lose everything you paid for at some point. COE isn't about the destination, it's about the journey.
This game is clearly doomed to be a total mess. The Dev is basically saying, "I dunno, what do you want? Give us lots of money and sure we can probably do that for you." Seems like they give shits cares about how the game is going to play out for regular players.
Just so it is clear to everyone how much out of context that OP is (it was a free spirited conversation, where the developer jokingly said those words) here is his official response on the games own forum, where they make announcments like this...
A big big portion of this game is about who controls what area/land which will give someone lots of power and if anyone says they can't see how outright buying control of 2/5 or even more of control over a server then they are being disingenuous.
Also please don't tell me, "but but he can be taken down if the others in the sever gang up on him bla bla" cause there's no way someone forks over 40k to lose all that 1 week after the game starts.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Just stopping by briefly, as Slapshot already pointed out, I closed the thread on our website. This was a case of a fun, entirely hypothetical conversation in Discord moving over to the forums, people making statements about the conversation that were untrue and then others getting wildly excited one way or the other and leading to more false information.
Slapshot was again kind enough to take a conversation out of context and post it here on MMORPG. To what end I'm unclear. Maybe to get more negative publicity for us... Maybe to get more publicity for himself... who knows?
In the end, when this thread was brought to my attention and I saw how grossly misinformed people were becoming - and the negative feedback arising as a result of the misinformation, I indeed closed the thread. When I see previous supporters being put off from the game by misinformation it's definitely a cause for concern for me.
So in an effort to clarify any misconceptions, for those previously familiar with CoE, please note the following:
No. We don't allow players to be dungeon masters or game masters in the game and have no plans to do so. Simple as that.
For those previously unfamiliar with CoE, Chronicles of Elyria is a very different MMO than any others you've played. It's difficult, if not impossible, to make simple comparisons as the game is so radically different. Attributes don't scale with items, there are no classes and levels, your character is composed of multiple lifetimes where they age and die in order to play a different role in a 10-year story, the world is dynamic and changing every minute, and players have the tools they need to deal with the world around them. Through player-written laws and explicit contracts, and the reinforcement of social norms via survival mechanics, CoE is much more like our own world than any fantasy world.
That being said, we also believe that players should have the ability to do anything that NPCs can do. Players can train one another, they can run shops and auctions houses, they can build and destroy settlements, and they can run local and national governments. There are player-ran settlements, as well as player-ran Counties, Duchies, and Kingdoms. At each tier of government the responsibilities and requirements get higher.
We also believe that at the start of a game, the world shouldn't be populated entirely with NPC's. We feel having player ran settlements from the beginning, player-ran kingdoms, and player-ran alliances and conflicts makes the game more interesting and fun for new players. The moment you enter the game on launch day there will be settlements, governments, and organizations vying for your support and recruiting you into their cause. They aren't just recruiting you into a player-organization - they're recruiting you to a cause. A cause which will inevitably lead to conflict on the servers, making for interesting and dramatic stories.
Because we want the world to be pre-populated with players, we have a three month period of time pre-launch where players who purchase pledge packages can come in and build out the settlements of the world, make alliances, declare wars, fight for resources, and even advance their skills so they can be the trainers and masters of the world on launch day. Trainers and Masters which others will come to, to learn the skills they need.
The people who are there during Exposition are not paying to win. They're paying to be the generation of people in the world pre-launch. They're paying to have their place in the history of Elyria recorded before their reign is abruptly taken away by an alliance gone bad. So yes, we do offer as part of our pledge packages the ability for players to come in and be a Mayor or Baron, a Count, Duke, or King on launch day - with all the responsibilities that come with it. But those titles can and will be lost as other players come in and take them away.
It's not pay to win when you spend money to get a higher status than other players.
WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
I'm not sure what exactly comes with the pay to king $10k but I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more in-game advantage than just a status.
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
You are correct, no one is paying 10k for just a title. They're paying for a good portion of land of which the dukes, counts and then barons can live in. They also get to design a story driven world event, a boss (of which I'm guessing you'll only be able to kill a few times before it disappears), and a castle. There are a few other things as well such as a concept art of whatever they pick, a forum title, and some EP.
Is it pay to win? Well first you should consider what pay to win actually means. From the way I see it, pay to win means to pay for specific content that is required to win the game or to pay for items that allow a player to have extreme advantages over other players. I don't see anything in the ep store that gives players those sort of advantages. The only thing you can buy so far is some mounts(all of which will be able to be found and tamed in the world), prebuilt buildings, some furniture to decorate your house, siege weapons and wagons. If anything COE is pay for an early advantage.
How is winning defined in COE? As it stands currently, there is no way to win at this game, even if you spend 10k or 40k on this game, you will eventually lose everything you paid for at some point. COE isn't about the destination, it's about the journey.
P2W in an MMO would be domination. To gain and maintain control over lands or zones within the game by using money to purchase large amounts of lands or materials.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Slapshot was again kind enough to take a conversation out of context and post it here on MMORPG. To what end I'm unclear. Maybe to get more negative publicity for us... Maybe to get more publicity for himself... who knows? .
Thanks for stopping by!
I just need to clear something up... the above quote makes it sound like I took something out of context. Actually if you look I took your quote and posted it in it's entirety plus linked to the thread in question.
Your quote was:
Caspien " While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
Those are YOUR words. YOU said you had no current plans to do so, but had no objection to doing so. I am glad that you seem to have clarified that now so we can be assured that you will NEVER have players with GM or similar accounts in your game. Right? Please be sure to answer that so there is no way it can be taken out of context.
Also, since you are around you may have missed some of the other open questions for you;
Are you still saying you are on target for release in Dec 2017 (and the 3 month no-wipe headstart 3 months before that).
Are you still saying you will have launched Elyria Mud, The Prologue, and the Kingdoms of Elyria game before that happens?
Thanks again for stopping by, and if you ever feel I have misstated something please feel free to let me know. Try to always copy direct quotes and provide links to their source so if I do get something wrong I'm happy to adjust.
Having you stop by here creates more content for us so please stop in more frequently!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Because we want the world to be pre-populated with players, we have a three month period of time pre-launch where players who purchase pledge packages can come in and build out the settlements of the world, make alliances, declare wars, fight for resources, and even advance their skills so they can be the trainers and masters of the world on launch day. Trainers and Masters which others will come to, to learn the skills they need.
The people who are there during Exposition are not paying to win. They're paying to be the generation of people in the world pre-launch. They're paying to have their place in the history of Elyria recorded before their reign is abruptly taken away by an alliance gone bad. So yes, we do offer as part of our pledge packages the ability for players to come in and be a Mayor or Baron, a Count, Duke, or King on launch day - with all the responsibilities that come with it. But those titles can and will be lost as other players come in and take them away.
See my previous post, it's not just about GM powers.
Looks up at quote, You make it sound like anyone, once server goes live, will be able to waltz in and decide hmm I am going to kill King xyz, I frankly don't believe it.
Looks up at quote sounds like p2w to me. They are buying a huge huge advantage and buying their way into Elyria's history instead of earning it in game like it should be.
Doesn't matter how you spin it........That IS p2w.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Jeromy, while I think this game has enormous potential, these controversies seem to arise primarily due to statements you make that are not entirely clear and leave open the possibility for interpretations that would drive away potential players. Clear communication on these issues should curtail these types of discussions that are a result of something you wrote causing alarm.
Could not agree more. Personally I do not believe it is accidental but I've always been a skeptic by nature. (In case you couldn't tell)
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I was never personally concerned by the idea of someone buying multiple King pledges. Nothing guarantees they keep what they start with, and it is highly likely they will lose a great deal of their land and power to older guilds that span multiple games like Sugoi, LoD and the like, which are far more experienced in group pvp than most of these backers. If they want to drop $20k for starting at a high rung in the ladder knowing they can lose it all, more power to them.
I was concerned about the idea of ordinary players paying for special "Dungeon master"-like privileges, but after having that clarified as not being a serious option, i am no longer concerned about that.
The only thing I currently remain concerned about are the comments regarding banning users for saying inaccurate things and the way SBS has conducted itself in the face of harsh criticism or disparaging remarks.
I want the best possible outcome for CoE and SBS, and their public relations is just absolutely tanking right now because of some of these personal responses coming out from SBS. Personal involvement with the community sounds good on paper, but at this point, the expression "less is more" comes to mind.
I thought there would other community managers like Caeltoiri or someone else who were supposed to handle this burden, but I haven't really seen them in the community for a long time.
I really wish SBS would restrict their own individual replies to users to someone like Vye, who seems very capable of emotionally compartmentalizing and keeping cool when representing SBS and replying to unhappy forum posters. If Vye (or someone like Vye) was the only one making these individual targeted replies to hot topics like these, I think SBS could start to improve their PR and street cred.
I don't follow CoE too closely, so i'm talking generally here:
Ordinary players also having a GM account is not necessarily bad. The difference is that it is normally either a voluntary GM job (this is rare today, but thats how most private servers work(ed), e.g. UO), or employees having a regular player account, so the other way round. In both cases, the motivation behind being a GM is totally different from spending money specifically to gain some sort of advantage.
Also, with 40k, you should certainly be able to influence the game - in the design phase. With good enough tools they could easily allow someone to design a dungeon in the actual game/editor used by employees. Heck, if there is some sort of mod editor like e.g Neverwinter has, having someone outside come in and having them use it would actually go a long way toward making i useful for players later.
Of course always with appropriate checking of the work in question and so.
Selling stuff like land and titles.. i think, once you start, it's hard to draw a line. With a small house with a singel room - i guess nobody would have a problem with that. A bigger house, with 3-4 rooms? You are not going to lord over anyone, especially if you have to spent a loot of time and resources on the upkeep. A masion with 10-20 rooms? Now it gets interesting because thats big enough for guilds. But where to draw the line? At 5 rooms (or something like 150 m²) ? At 8? 10? 15? And if you are okay with 20, why not 25 or 30? There is no real difference, it's just arbitrary. And soon you reach castle sizes or whole villages.
At the very least you would have to clearly define in the game that a certain parcel does only support certain house types due to size and/or other factors, and each house type confers various advantages/disadvantages. Like, only buildings supposed to be fortified get a fortified status, and regular housing being incredibly easy to destroy (throwing a handful of torches on the roof or something). Then you can sell parcels not big enough for fortified towers/castles.
But i think that it's hard to balance "easy to destroy" and still keeping it valuable, and there will always be an itch to allow more house types on more parcels. If the game is flexible enough, players also *will* find a way to abuse it, e.g. by only building stone walls (without any enclosed rooms) on the parcels surrounding the actual building, effectively building a castle without having the need for any of the parcels to actually support a castle.
Buying GM status and such should never be possible, it *will* be abused, and the gain is miniscule. If you feel the need for more GMs, either hire someone, or try it on a voluntary basis. If you follow your community close enough, you'll know the people you'll want to start such a system with. Maybe start with the wiki or forum first (moderator status etc.).
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
And this is why I fully support closed forums and NDAs.
You are not allowed to be human, or express ideas that you feel personally.
Everyone over looks the original quote.
Caspien " While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
He is stating that he has "no plans to do so". But that he has "no objection to allowing highly influential" people to log in under a GM account and RP a Vice/Virtue.
One of the problems here is GM account, what does that mean. Is it a SBS owned account that will only be able to have access to this Vice/Virtue character (or what ever) while needed for this game event (story plot). Or is it what people consider to be GM accounts in other games. An account with Admin abilities and would be able to create and destroy items at will within game game world. [Also stated that the game world has a fix ecosystem. And that items (anything at all) will not be added to or taken from the game world.]
Also, I've been around for a few years now, beta tested UO and many many more games over that time. I've seen players that had GM accounts. They had very limited powers, and was heavy logged to be monitored. But they were there to help the player community whenever they needed. It also saved the companies large amounts of many than paying multiple people round the clock as support.
Another problem I see here is "influential". What does it mean to be influential? Is it just the amount of influence points that a player may have? Is it more based around how much of a positive impact that person would have on the game and community over the span of testing before the game is released.
Yes, it is true that your amount of donations effect the amount of IP (influence points) that a person will have come exposition (three month start of game to help build out the world). It is also stated that persons will be able to gain IP by their in game actions and contributions to the gaming community through out the testing period.
As far as the "Buy a Kingdom" misunderstanding that I see a lot of people have on this forum.
Although he and others did buy access to the tittle, and the land that is associated with it. It is not a single guild, but a collection of multiple guild, duchies, counties and cities. Each controlled by players and some non-players. With their own agenda's and goals for the game, or possibly the kingdom itself. The king does not have direct control over every guild, county, or every city within every county that are in his lands. A better understanding on how the game is meant to work, and the mechanics that are communicated to the community is needed to make blanket statements about the game.
I am pledged at the Count tier, That means I will be lord of a land area stated to be roughly the size of the map of Skyrim. And, although I am told I would have control over setting up land values, and have the ability to collect taxes. And many other in game features I would hope you would spend the time learning about. It does not state that I get to keep my tittle once the game starts. I could be a horrible lord of my lands and my Barons and Mayors could revolt and take my tittle from me.
Anyway, I just see this thread as being people talking out of their ass. With no understanding of what is or is wanted from the game. And I also think Slapshot1188 is using this to fish for attention for his forum post. It's like so many other Click Bates on the interwebs today.
And this is why I fully support closed forums and NDAs.
You are not allowed to be human, or express ideas that you feel personally.
Everyone over looks the original quote.
Caspien " While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
He is stating that he has "no plans to do so". But that he has "no objection to allowing highly influential" people to log in under a GM account and RP a Vice/Virtue.
One of the problems here is GM account, what does that mean. Is it a SBS owned account that will only be able to have access to this Vice/Virtue character (or what ever) while needed for this game event (story plot). Or is it what people consider to be GM accounts in other games. An account with Admin abilities and would be able to create and destroy items at will within game game world. [Also stated that the game world has a fix ecosystem. And that items (anything at all) will not be added to or taken from the game world.]
Also, I've been around for a few years now, beta tested UO and many many more games over that time. I've seen players that had GM accounts. They had very limited powers, and was heavy logged to be monitored. But they were there to help the player community whenever they needed. It also saved the companies large amounts of many than paying multiple people round the clock as support.
Another problem I see here is "influential". What does it mean to be influential? Is it just the amount of influence points that a player may have? Is it more based around how much of a positive impact that person would have on the game and community over the span of testing before the game is released.
Yes, it is true that your amount of donations effect the amount of IP (influence points) that a person will have come exposition (three month start of game to help build out the world). It is also stated that persons will be able to gain IP by their in game actions and contributions to the gaming community through out the testing period.
As far as the "Buy a Kingdom" misunderstanding that I see a lot of people have on this forum.
Although he and others did buy access to the tittle, and the land that is associated with it. It is not a single guild, but a collection of multiple guild, duchies, counties and cities. Each controlled by players and some non-players. With their own agenda's and goals for the game, or possibly the kingdom itself. The king does not have direct control over every guild, county, or every city within every county that are in his lands. A better understanding on how the game is meant to work, and the mechanics that are communicated to the community is needed to make blanket statements about the game.
I am pledged at the Count tier, That means I will be lord of a land area stated to be roughly the size of the map of Skyrim. And, although I am told I would have control over setting up land values, and have the ability to collect taxes. And many other in game features I would hope you would spend the time learning about. It does not state that I get to keep my tittle once the game starts. I could be a horrible lord of my lands and my Barons and Mayors could revolt and take my tittle from me.
Anyway, I just see this thread as being people talking out of their ass. With no understanding of what is or is wanted from the game. And I also think Slapshot1188 is using this to fish for attention for his forum post. It's like so many other Click Bates on the interwebs today.
Thread title: "Developer has no objection to allowing high donating players have GM accounts"
Developer states "I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account"
Clearly we are the ones "talking out of our asses"... to borrow your words.
If you haven't seen GM powers abused by players in PvP territory control games then you haven't play many or you simply didn't notice. There's a long list of instances. Feel free to look them up. But if that's something that is wished for just let it be publicly known. Heck a developer can do anything they want in their game, just be up front so everybody knows what they are getting into.
I'm sorry if you are offended that I accurately quoted the developer of the game that you pledged $500 to obtain pixel property and "lord of a land area roughly the size of the map of Skyrim", but I did in fact quote him exactly. Those were HIS words, not mine. Also, I'm not sure how you think I am looking to draw attention to this post as I have never linked it nor discussed it outside of this forum. If anything, your developer tried to draw you here by linking directly to it when he closed the thread on the official forums. To which I say: "AWESOME!!" We need some lively debate and discussion!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
money is king, in a perma death game. I think this game will appeal to the Entropia Universe kind of crowd, not so much actual mmo players.
True, but as long as the Dev's follow their plans of not allowing money to effect the game once it releases I really don't think it will.
From everything that I read about the game. You will not be able to add items to the game with real world money. It is a closed ecosystem, with limited (although large amounts) of resources. Unlike Entropia where you can use real world money to add more in game money to the game world account. I do not see that happening here.
Just another example of someone not understanding how game mechanics are meant to work for this game.
Is it pay to win? Well first you should consider what pay to win actually means. ...
And here comes the verbal gymnastics, lol
I'm reminded of Bill Clinton's famous line: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is..."
The same buzzer went off in my head...
If developers wish to create a game that stratifies players by their socioeconomic status (just as, y'know, real life does), they're welcome to it. It'll be hilarious to watch the sort of sad parody of class politics start happening as the developers begin trying to balance their biggest spenders' interests while simulateneously attempting to keep the game from feeling like an exercise in masochism for the vast majority of folks.
Games are where we go to release ourselves from the boundaries of the real world and relax. Socioeconomic stratification in games is going to have a hugely detrimental effect on that for the vast majority of folks, as there's nothing quite like loading up a video game that allows players to buy their way to land and titles in a game focused on territory control and the caste system to bring you right back to the reality of money = power.
I miss the days of people having ideas and then pitching said ideas to corporate, corporate liking said ideas, altering some things, giving deadlines, then having a product at a specific time. But since people don't want developer's "visions" to be altered, we have crowdfunding. Easy money for clowns as long as they use key words like "dream" "vision" "nostalgia"
Thread title: "Developer has no objection to allowing high donating players have GM accounts"
Developer states "I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account"
Clearly we are the ones "talking out of our asses"... to borrow your words.
If you haven't seen GM powers abused by players in PvP territory control games then you haven't play many or you simply didn't notice. There's a long list of instances. Feel free to look them up. But if that's something that is wished for just let it be publicly known. Heck a developer can do anything they want in their game, just be up front so everybody knows what they are getting into.
I'm sorry if you are offended that I accurately quoted the developer of the game that you pledged $500 to obtain pixel property and "lord of a land area roughly the size of the map of Skyrim", but I did in fact quote him exactly. Those were HIS words, not mine. Also, I'm not sure how you think I am looking to draw attention to this post as I have never linked it nor discussed it outside of this forum. If anything, your developer tried to draw you here by linking directly to it when he closed the thread on the official forums. To which I say: "AWESOME!!" We need some lively debate and discussion!
HAHA. You like to twist shit!
There are so many parts in my post that questioned what was meant by GM account. And, comparing GM accounts from other games to what could be meant in this statement. But in truth that is really irrelevant. You also skipped over, "While I have no plan to do so" part of that conversation. And went right to the part that made your original bitch fest click bate seem legit. So, stating that you do not plan to do something. But that you wouldn't object to it is the same as saying you plan on doing it.
You may have accurately quoted the developer, but you prejudice your post. In doing so, you did not objectively question or even state anything about it being a personal view point of the poster. You stated your opinion of the post as a fact and although the original quote in no ways says that a player would have access to GM accounts. You posted your comment as if it did, without a doubt, state that players would dependent upon influence have access to GM accounts.
You can say whatever you want about me or anything else. But that is what it is.
And my pledging of $500.00 really hurts you in some way, I laugh at that. It's not the first and will not be the last game that I invest money into. It is mine and I will spend it how I wish. If you can't afford it, then don't spend it like I do.
You also, never mentioned that the game has a strictly close ecosystem come launch. That the Dev's state that nothing will be added to or taken from the games ecosystem. And that all items will be created within the game world with game resources. [this is out side of exposition which is stated to help grow the game world for new players (it's like getting a bunch of content creators for free)]
And, as you mentioned my county. I do plan on building a place that will help many people prosper within the game world. Connecting all the cities within my lands with a custom network of roads and trade routes. And I am more than willing to welcome any player that wants to add to a growing and enjoyable gaming experience join me.
Comments
As far as the four kingdoms, there's no chance that one player could maintain them. Even with a large organized guild, I'm intrigued by the type of world that would be. I picture it to be a sort of grim world where non-guild members are forced to live underground. Could be kind of fun as long as the game mechanics accommodate.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/You are correct, no one is paying 10k for just a title. They're paying for a good portion of land of which the dukes, counts and then barons can live in. They also get to design a story driven world event, a boss (of which I'm guessing you'll only be able to kill a few times before it disappears), and a castle. There are a few other things as well such as a concept art of whatever they pick, a forum title, and some EP.
Is it pay to win? Well first you should consider what pay to win actually means. From the way I see it, pay to win means to pay for specific content that is required to win the game or to pay for items that allow a player to have extreme advantages over other players. I don't see anything in the ep store that gives players those sort of advantages. The only thing you can buy so far is some mounts(all of which will be able to be found and tamed in the world), prebuilt buildings, some furniture to decorate your house, siege weapons and wagons. If anything COE is pay for an early advantage.
How is winning defined in COE? As it stands currently, there is no way to win at this game, even if you spend 10k or 40k on this game, you will eventually lose everything you paid for at some point. COE isn't about the destination, it's about the journey.
WOW...
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14989/equity-vs-fairness?page=11#post157070
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm reminded of Bill Clinton's famous line: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is..."
This game is clearly doomed to be a total mess. The Dev is basically saying, "I dunno, what do you want? Give us lots of money and sure we can probably do that for you." Seems like they give shits cares about how the game is going to play out for regular players.
It isn't only about GM powers.
A big big portion of this game is about who controls what area/land which will give someone lots of power and if anyone says they can't see how outright buying control of 2/5 or even more of control over a server then they are being disingenuous.
Also please don't tell me, "but but he can be taken down if the others in the sever gang up on him bla bla" cause there's no way someone forks over 40k to lose all that 1 week after the game starts.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Just stopping by briefly, as Slapshot already pointed out, I closed the thread on our website. This was a case of a fun, entirely hypothetical conversation in Discord moving over to the forums, people making statements about the conversation that were untrue and then others getting wildly excited one way or the other and leading to more false information.
Slapshot was again kind enough to take a conversation out of context and post it here on MMORPG. To what end I'm unclear. Maybe to get more negative publicity for us... Maybe to get more publicity for himself... who knows?
In the end, when this thread was brought to my attention and I saw how grossly misinformed people were becoming - and the negative feedback arising as a result of the misinformation, I indeed closed the thread. When I see previous supporters being put off from the game by misinformation it's definitely a cause for concern for me.
So in an effort to clarify any misconceptions, for those previously familiar with CoE, please note the following:
No. We don't allow players to be dungeon masters or game masters in the game and have no plans to do so. Simple as that.
For those previously unfamiliar with CoE, Chronicles of Elyria is a very different MMO than any others you've played. It's difficult, if not impossible, to make simple comparisons as the game is so radically different. Attributes don't scale with items, there are no classes and levels, your character is composed of multiple lifetimes where they age and die in order to play a different role in a 10-year story, the world is dynamic and changing every minute, and players have the tools they need to deal with the world around them. Through player-written laws and explicit contracts, and the reinforcement of social norms via survival mechanics, CoE is much more like our own world than any fantasy world.
That being said, we also believe that players should have the ability to do anything that NPCs can do. Players can train one another, they can run shops and auctions houses, they can build and destroy settlements, and they can run local and national governments. There are player-ran settlements, as well as player-ran Counties, Duchies, and Kingdoms. At each tier of government the responsibilities and requirements get higher.
We also believe that at the start of a game, the world shouldn't be populated entirely with NPC's. We feel having player ran settlements from the beginning, player-ran kingdoms, and player-ran alliances and conflicts makes the game more interesting and fun for new players. The moment you enter the game on launch day there will be settlements, governments, and organizations vying for your support and recruiting you into their cause. They aren't just recruiting you into a player-organization - they're recruiting you to a cause. A cause which will inevitably lead to conflict on the servers, making for interesting and dramatic stories.
Because we want the world to be pre-populated with players, we have a three month period of time pre-launch where players who purchase pledge packages can come in and build out the settlements of the world, make alliances, declare wars, fight for resources, and even advance their skills so they can be the trainers and masters of the world on launch day. Trainers and Masters which others will come to, to learn the skills they need.
The people who are there during Exposition are not paying to win. They're paying to be the generation of people in the world pre-launch. They're paying to have their place in the history of Elyria recorded before their reign is abruptly taken away by an alliance gone bad. So yes, we do offer as part of our pledge packages the ability for players to come in and be a Mayor or Baron, a Count, Duke, or King on launch day - with all the responsibilities that come with it. But those titles can and will be lost as other players come in and take them away.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
I am considering donating $ 1 Million to have the game all for myself.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I just need to clear something up... the above quote makes it sound like I took something out of context. Actually if you look I took your quote and posted it in it's entirety plus linked to the thread in question.
Your quote was:
Caspien " While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
Those are YOUR words. YOU said you had no current plans to do so, but had no objection to doing so. I am glad that you seem to have clarified that now so we can be assured that you will NEVER have players with GM or similar accounts in your game. Right? Please be sure to answer that so there is no way it can be taken out of context.
Also, since you are around you may have missed some of the other open questions for you;
- Are you still saying you are on target for release in Dec 2017 (and the 3 month no-wipe headstart 3 months before that).
- Are you still saying you will have launched Elyria Mud, The Prologue, and the Kingdoms of Elyria game before that happens?
Thanks again for stopping by, and if you ever feel I have misstated something please feel free to let me know. Try to always copy direct quotes and provide links to their source so if I do get something wrong I'm happy to adjust.Having you stop by here creates more content for us so please stop in more frequently!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Looks up at quote, You make it sound like anyone, once server goes live, will be able to waltz in and decide hmm I am going to kill King xyz, I frankly don't believe it.
Looks up at quote sounds like p2w to me. They are buying a huge huge advantage and buying their way into Elyria's history instead of earning it in game like it should be.
Doesn't matter how you spin it........That IS p2w.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I was concerned about the idea of ordinary players paying for special "Dungeon master"-like privileges, but after having that clarified as not being a serious option, i am no longer concerned about that.
The only thing I currently remain concerned about are the comments regarding banning users for saying inaccurate things and the way SBS has conducted itself in the face of harsh criticism or disparaging remarks.
I want the best possible outcome for CoE and SBS, and their public relations is just absolutely tanking right now because of some of these personal responses coming out from SBS. Personal involvement with the community sounds good on paper, but at this point, the expression "less is more" comes to mind.
I thought there would other community managers like Caeltoiri or someone else who were supposed to handle this burden, but I haven't really seen them in the community for a long time.
I really wish SBS would restrict their own individual replies to users to someone like Vye, who seems very capable of emotionally compartmentalizing and keeping cool when representing SBS and replying to unhappy forum posters. If Vye (or someone like Vye) was the only one making these individual targeted replies to hot topics like these, I think SBS could start to improve their PR and street cred.
#Vyeforpres
Ordinary players also having a GM account is not necessarily bad. The difference is that it is normally either a voluntary GM job (this is rare today, but thats how most private servers work(ed), e.g. UO), or employees having a regular player account, so the other way round. In both cases, the motivation behind being a GM is totally different from spending money specifically to gain some sort of advantage.
Also, with 40k, you should certainly be able to influence the game - in the design phase. With good enough tools they could easily allow someone to design a dungeon in the actual game/editor used by employees. Heck, if there is some sort of mod editor like e.g Neverwinter has, having someone outside come in and having them use it would actually go a long way toward making i useful for players later.
Of course always with appropriate checking of the work in question and so.
Selling stuff like land and titles.. i think, once you start, it's hard to draw a line. With a small house with a singel room - i guess nobody would have a problem with that. A bigger house, with 3-4 rooms? You are not going to lord over anyone, especially if you have to spent a loot of time and resources on the upkeep. A masion with 10-20 rooms? Now it gets interesting because thats big enough for guilds. But where to draw the line? At 5 rooms (or something like 150 m²) ? At 8? 10? 15? And if you are okay with 20, why not 25 or 30? There is no real difference, it's just arbitrary. And soon you reach castle sizes or whole villages.
At the very least you would have to clearly define in the game that a certain parcel does only support certain house types due to size and/or other factors, and each house type confers various advantages/disadvantages. Like, only buildings supposed to be fortified get a fortified status, and regular housing being incredibly easy to destroy (throwing a handful of torches on the roof or something). Then you can sell parcels not big enough for fortified towers/castles.
But i think that it's hard to balance "easy to destroy" and still keeping it valuable, and there will always be an itch to allow more house types on more parcels. If the game is flexible enough, players also *will* find a way to abuse it, e.g. by only building stone walls (without any enclosed rooms) on the parcels surrounding the actual building, effectively building a castle without having the need for any of the parcels to actually support a castle.
Buying GM status and such should never be possible, it *will* be abused, and the gain is miniscule. If you feel the need for more GMs, either hire someone, or try it on a voluntary basis. If you follow your community close enough, you'll know the people you'll want to start such a system with. Maybe start with the wiki or forum first (moderator status etc.).
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
You are not allowed to be human, or express ideas that you feel personally.
Everyone over looks the original quote.
He is stating that he has "no plans to do so". But that he has "no objection to allowing highly influential" people to log in under a GM account and RP a Vice/Virtue.
One of the problems here is GM account, what does that mean. Is it a SBS owned account that will only be able to have access to this Vice/Virtue character (or what ever) while needed for this game event (story plot). Or is it what people consider to be GM accounts in other games. An account with Admin abilities and would be able to create and destroy items at will within game game world. [Also stated that the game world has a fix ecosystem. And that items (anything at all) will not be added to or taken from the game world.]
Also, I've been around for a few years now, beta tested UO and many many more games over that time. I've seen players that had GM accounts. They had very limited powers, and was heavy logged to be monitored. But they were there to help the player community whenever they needed. It also saved the companies large amounts of many than paying multiple people round the clock as support.
Another problem I see here is "influential". What does it mean to be influential? Is it just the amount of influence points that a player may have? Is it more based around how much of a positive impact that person would have on the game and community over the span of testing before the game is released.
Yes, it is true that your amount of donations effect the amount of IP (influence points) that a person will have come exposition (three month start of game to help build out the world). It is also stated that persons will be able to gain IP by their in game actions and contributions to the gaming community through out the testing period.
As far as the "Buy a Kingdom" misunderstanding that I see a lot of people have on this forum.
Although he and others did buy access to the tittle, and the land that is associated with it. It is not a single guild, but a collection of multiple guild, duchies, counties and cities. Each controlled by players and some non-players. With their own agenda's and goals for the game, or possibly the kingdom itself. The king does not have direct control over every guild, county, or every city within every county that are in his lands. A better understanding on how the game is meant to work, and the mechanics that are communicated to the community is needed to make blanket statements about the game.
I am pledged at the Count tier, That means I will be lord of a land area stated to be roughly the size of the map of Skyrim. And, although I am told I would have control over setting up land values, and have the ability to collect taxes. And many other in game features I would hope you would spend the time learning about. It does not state that I get to keep my tittle once the game starts. I could be a horrible lord of my lands and my Barons and Mayors could revolt and take my tittle from me.
Anyway, I just see this thread as being people talking out of their ass. With no understanding of what is or is wanted from the game. And I also think Slapshot1188 is using this to fish for attention for his forum post. It's like so many other Click Bates on the interwebs today.
Developer states "I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account"
Clearly we are the ones "talking out of our asses"... to borrow your words.
If you haven't seen GM powers abused by players in PvP territory control games then you haven't play many or you simply didn't notice. There's a long list of instances. Feel free to look them up. But if that's something that is wished for just let it be publicly known. Heck a developer can do anything they want in their game, just be up front so everybody knows what they are getting into.
I'm sorry if you are offended that I accurately quoted the developer of the game that you pledged $500 to obtain pixel property and "lord of a land area roughly the size of the map of Skyrim", but I did in fact quote him exactly. Those were HIS words, not mine. Also, I'm not sure how you think I am looking to draw attention to this post as I have never linked it nor discussed it outside of this forum. If anything, your developer tried to draw you here by linking directly to it when he closed the thread on the official forums. To which I say: "AWESOME!!" We need some lively debate and discussion!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
From everything that I read about the game. You will not be able to add items to the game with real world money. It is a closed ecosystem, with limited (although large amounts) of resources. Unlike Entropia where you can use real world money to add more in game money to the game world account. I do not see that happening here.
Just another example of someone not understanding how game mechanics are meant to work for this game.
If developers wish to create a game that stratifies players by their socioeconomic status (just as, y'know, real life does), they're welcome to it. It'll be hilarious to watch the sort of sad parody of class politics start happening as the developers begin trying to balance their biggest spenders' interests while simulateneously attempting to keep the game from feeling like an exercise in masochism for the vast majority of folks.
Games are where we go to release ourselves from the boundaries of the real world and relax. Socioeconomic stratification in games is going to have a hugely detrimental effect on that for the vast majority of folks, as there's nothing quite like loading up a video game that allows players to buy their way to land and titles in a game focused on territory control and the caste system to bring you right back to the reality of money = power.
There are so many parts in my post that questioned what was meant by GM account. And, comparing GM accounts from other games to what could be meant in this statement. But in truth that is really irrelevant. You also skipped over, "While I have no plan to do so" part of that conversation. And went right to the part that made your original bitch fest click bate seem legit. So, stating that you do not plan to do something. But that you wouldn't object to it is the same as saying you plan on doing it.
You may have accurately quoted the developer, but you prejudice your post. In doing so, you did not objectively question or even state anything about it being a personal view point of the poster. You stated your opinion of the post as a fact and although the original quote in no ways says that a player would have access to GM accounts. You posted your comment as if it did, without a doubt, state that players would dependent upon influence have access to GM accounts.
You can say whatever you want about me or anything else. But that is what it is.
And my pledging of $500.00 really hurts you in some way, I laugh at that. It's not the first and will not be the last game that I invest money into. It is mine and I will spend it how I wish. If you can't afford it, then don't spend it like I do.
You also, never mentioned that the game has a strictly close ecosystem come launch. That the Dev's state that nothing will be added to or taken from the games ecosystem. And that all items will be created within the game world with game resources. [this is out side of exposition which is stated to help grow the game world for new players (it's like getting a bunch of content creators for free)]
And, as you mentioned my county. I do plan on building a place that will help many people prosper within the game world. Connecting all the cities within my lands with a custom network of roads and trade routes. And I am more than willing to welcome any player that wants to add to a growing and enjoyable gaming experience join me.
Anyways, Later...