Very concerning. Co-op? not Mmorpg?

WellzyC

This is from the DnL reddit.

Death proxy (YouTuber) also mentions this information in his weekly DnL update videos.

If this information is correct, I am so disappointed. 

From the sound of this information, the game plays more like a "modern warfare 2 style dedicated server system", where people will host and you can join in. 

It brings up a lot of questions. Will server size will most likely be low since it will be hosted by the public?  Are dedicated servers just an option over official servers? If a server closes is your character gone? what is the point of factions if the population is so low? 

In the end, we will have to wait and see what early access brings, but this information really stings. I was extremely excited for a fantasy survival mmo. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"the steam page listing is accurate - single-player, local, and online co-op through private servers should be available at EA launch."Confirmed (self.dnl)

submitted 4 days ago by KroyMortlach|light| |MA|

Horsejoke - Today at 2:50 AM @Kroy just got confirmation from the product manager, the steam page listing is accurate - single-player, local, and online co-op through private servers should be available at EA launch. Just part of a feature list rather than a full announcement

I questioned Horsejoke on Discord and he checked with his colleagues. This represents another piece of the puzzle confirmed, rather than the speculation and rumours.

It's something that we all suspected. It was even part of a leaked statement back in September, and yes it was listed on Steam. But for those of us who have been around a bit, we know that until it's been verified in at least two places by Snail, it's likely not official news, (e.g. Facebook calling the game an MMORPG, or release in "Fall" or "This year" in the same announcement etc...). They haven't been the most reliable of communicators so far during Dark and Light's pre-release build up.

Forgrimm

We've known for a little while now that they dropped the mmo part from it and decided to go with a small server survival game.

SpottyGekko

Forgrimm said:

We've known for a little while now that they dropped the mmo part from it and decided to go with a small server survival game.

Yeah, you have to wonder...

According to the official BS story, DnL was originally bought by Snail because "one of the directors of Snail liked the game design so much that he was determined to bring it to the world's MMO players"...

So much for that.

I think they bought the rights for pennies and are just using the IP as a cash grab opportunity due to the current popularity of "survival games". By branding this version of DnL as a "survival game", they can get away with minimal content and rush it out as Early Access.

WellzyC

I know they are no longer calling it an MMO. I wonder if they started with that label, then realized they couldn't make it an mmorpg on the engine they are using. 

DnL = DayZ in a fantasy setting instead of guns/zombies?

I guess it doesn't sound all bad, as long as the servers are populated and reliable. I don't want to spend months capping out skills only to get my toon deleted when the host decided to shut down.
I would much prefer official servers, only for the character security.

MaxBacon

Wishing the private servers can be hosted via dedicated software, as it would be with Ark. If they come up with the Steam peer-to-peer co-op multiplayer only then RIP.

That would be, your friend needs to be online to play on their save kind of deal that is just annoying >.>

Forgrimm

MaxBacon said:

Wishing the private servers can be hosted via dedicated software, as it would be with Ark. If they come up with the Steam peer-to-peer co-op multiplayer only then RIP.

That would be, your friend needs to be online to play on their save kind of deal that is just annoying >.>

Yeah peer-to-peer tends to be shit, especially if you get on a server being hosted by someone with a bad/slow internet connection. I remember trying to run dungeons in Vindictus with the peer-to-peer connections and half the time the lag was so bad it was unplayable.

Kyleran

My interest is waning for this title as I don't play games on private servers...but those who do will likely enjoy this.

Filbur

I knew it. It's a shame that they felt the need to scrap their original vision (http://mmoculture.com/2011/03/darkness-and-light-an-epic-mmo-in-the-making/) for a ARK/survival clone.

Filbur

I know, but their role model is obviously ARK.

Kyleran

Nyctelios said:

Filbur said:

I knew it. It's a shame that they felt the need to scrap their original vision (http://mmoculture.com/2011/03/darkness-and-light-an-epic-mmo-in-the-making/) for a ARK/survival clone.

For the Grand Father Azathoth sake, ARK is not the genre definer nor the genre creator. Things are not copying ARK, ARK copied things.

That's like saying any moba is copying League of Legends.

ARK, H1Z1, Rust or any of the half a dozen or so survival titles that preceded it.

Pretty clear they are following the model of minimal investment those titles used to generate substantial revenue.

But definitely not putting in the effort to build and run an epic MMORPG, or even a large scale survival title which I had been hoping for.

MaxBacon

If they follow Ark too much I don't think the game can be very sucessful.
That type of games are already very very drained; even Conan Exiles struggles on this aspect.

Hopefully they realize end-game with PvE and challenging PvE Co-Op Content instead of PvP is something that I think people want much more than another survival PvP game.

Dragnelus

I think it will be like ark servers.

kitarad

So you can have your own server and play it with a few friends ?

RexKushman

kitarad said:

So you can have your own server and play it with a few friends ?

Yes, exactly.

I personally love the smaller server games like Rust and Ark.

Raven

Kyleran said:

Nyctelios said:

Filbur said:

I knew it. It's a shame that they felt the need to scrap their original vision (http://mmoculture.com/2011/03/darkness-and-light-an-epic-mmo-in-the-making/) for a ARK/survival clone.

For the Grand Father Azathoth sake, ARK is not the genre definer nor the genre creator. Things are not copying ARK, ARK copied things.

That's like saying any moba is copying League of Legends.

ARK, H1Z1, Rust or any of the half a dozen or so survival titles that preceded it.

Pretty clear they are following the model of minimal investment those titles used to generate substantial revenue.

But definitely not putting in the effort to build and run an epic MMORPG, or even a large scale survival title which I had been hoping for.

I see where you are coming from, this isn't going to be a developer curated experience I don't think, however, I dont think servers with 1000s of people appeals to me anymore, if they play their cards right and if their tech is solid then they can open up modding in some way to people running servers and that would be huge, if you can build quests and generate events then I would be more interested in playing on a small focused community with unique content and guiding than waiting for developers to deliver on a grand scale that will always be unattainable.

This is all speculation of course, its a wait and see game at the moment.

danwest58

Sounds like Minecraft basically.  O well another game that I will pass on.

cheyane

I understand that PvP does create more dynamic content but boy would I not love a game solely survivor but against nature and creatures in the world.  I gather resources kill animals and try and survive cold, heat and disasters but not have to kill or murder another player.

Raven

DMKano said:

MaxBacon said:

If they follow Ark too much I don't think the game can be very sucessful.
That type of games are already very very drained; even Conan Exiles struggles on this aspect.

Hopefully they realize end-game with PvE and challenging PvE Co-Op Content instead of PvP is something that I think people want much more than another survival PvP game.

The reason why no survival game goes for challenging PvE endgame is that takes MAJOR development effort to do right. PvP in comparison does not as players themselves create the challenge for other players.

This is where im sceptic that this game will actually deliver on meaningful world interaction, altough dont get me wrong all of their stuff on paper sounds fun, whether it will have the depth or not is the question, its just so much easier to give people simpler tools and let PVP be the dominant content than to build an efficient and fun dynamic mob system for instance. But I hope they prove me wrong, I think my ideal vision for this would be small population server on a huge world with a lot of PVE content and sporadic but meaningful player v player interactions with servers having their own rules and interaction dynamics.

MaxBacon

DMKano said:

The reason why no survival game goes for challenging PvE endgame is that takes MAJOR development effort to do right. PvP in comparison does not as players themselves create the challenge for other players.

The typical MMO Grind system for me would be enough. Have stuff to grind for, and ways to do it. 

> Big and/or slow-progressing skill tree. See Life is Feudal colossal effort it takes to get max crafting levels, players trade with players with full craft skills at X and Y thing instead << This pushes on economy play

> PvE as, bosses and locations meant for co-op play instead of "i'm a solo snowflake".

> Gear progression tied to defeat hard bosses or whatever; this could be if not gear progression, be made at shiny vanity things players would want and would then grind for. 

It's about give players objectives and purpose so then you start seeing end-game happen that wouldn't be that hollowness with survival elements. But for me it's not that hard for a game like this to add more meaning to PvE, like MMO's do, via give them stuff to grind for.

Leiloni

MaxBacon said:

DMKano said:

The reason why no survival game goes for challenging PvE endgame is that takes MAJOR development effort to do right. PvP in comparison does not as players themselves create the challenge for other players.

The typical MMO Grind system for me would be enough. Have stuff to grind for, and ways to do it. 

> Big and/or slow-progressing skill tree. See Life is Feudal colossal effort it takes to get max crafting levels, players trade with players with full craft skills at X and Y thing instead << This pushes on economy play

> PvE as, bosses and locations meant for co-op play instead of "i'm a solo snowflake".

> Gear progression tied to defeat hard bosses or whatever; this could be if not gear progression, be made at shiny vanity things players would want and would then grind for. 

It's about give players objectives and purpose so then you start seeing end-game happen that wouldn't be that hollowness with survival elements. But for me it's not that hard for a game like this to add more meaning to PvE, like MMO's do, via give them stuff to grind for.

You need permanent developer/publisher-run game servers for that, not private player run servers. Nobody is going to do all that hard work if they risk losing their character. You're essentially asking for a full fledged MMORPG which they've stated this is not - that's the problem. As for your requests, there are games out there like that. Black Desert for one, but there are smaller and/or older ones I know less about as well.

MaxBacon

Leiloni said:

You need permanent developer/publisher-run game servers for that, not private player run servers. Nobody is going to do all that hard work if they risk losing their character. You're essentially asking for a full fledged MMORPG which they've stated this is not - that's the problem. As for your requests, there are games out there like that. Black Desert for one, but there are smaller and/or older ones I know less about as well.

For me the whole point IS private run servers with that type of play. I think people are tired of private servers of "yet another open world PVP survival game".

If you have a dedicated private server it's a permanent ran thing, it's some sort of MMO without MMO player counts, yet with the type of elements you would expect to find in one.

Hosting something like that, under our control, ability to mod and set all the parameters it's something that then yes I believe people would be interested on.

Skeeterslint

After all the time they have been working on this game now and this is the best they could do? LOL I knew it would turn into a trainwreck.

Lerxst

Nyctelios said:

That's better. That's waaaaaay better. There will be servers with their custom rules, you can host your own server... I wish mmorpgs would allow that kind of thing - because the massive these days stands for massive amount of pieces of shit.

You obviously have no clue what an MMO is..... wait... why are you even registered on a site called MMORPG in the first place?

Go play any of those pseudo-wannabe-mmo's to get your nice little cozy private servers that get wiped, banned, hacked or simple erased at the whim of any admin with a hangover..

Saddom321

It's really hilarious. Most hyped game in mmorpg.com IS SINGLEPLAYER / CO-OP / MINI-SERVER GAME.

Iselin

I think there's something wrong with me. Maybe something not wired right in the pleasure center of my brain...

I find survival games, hell any games with extensive resource gathering and building, just totally boring. I couldn't stand even minecraft. They just feel like busy work to me... worse if gankers mess with my busy work.

I hate mobas too... I'm definitely not the target audience of the gaming industry these days

Oh well, back to killing and exploring in games that are still about that.

Kunai_Vax

Iselin said:

I think there's something wrong with me. Maybe something not wired right in the pleasure center of my brain...

I find survival games, hell any games with extensive resource gathering and building, just totally boring. I couldn't stand even minecraft. They just feel like busy work to me... worse if gankers mess with my busy work.

I hate mobas too... I'm definitely not the target audience of the gaming industry these days

Oh well, back to killing and exploring in games that are still about that.

I didnt like MOBA's either until i tried Heroes of the storm. I was hooked pretty quickly even though i was terrible at it. Im playing Battlerite now and having a blast. No stress about having to keep up with others, no worry that my gear is not good enough.. its a nice change of pace while i wait for something worthwhile to come out on the MMORPG scene.