Gaming is not in a swamp. Movies and music have it far worse.
Our medium is doing just fine. As is our genre. There are a ton of different games out and coming out.
Hey Chicken Little! Look up. The sky is not falling.
If you dont discern between the various types of games then sure, there are "plenty" of new ones out there.
Sort of like telling a football fan there are plenty of games (baseball, basketball, hockey) to watch after the Superbowl. Not if they don't enjoy watching "sports", my father was one such as this. Golf and football (pro only), nothing else mattered.
But look at the top off this page, "MMORPG.com"
Yeah, far fewer of those coming out these days, and most of what is out there are of Asian design which I generally don't care for due to various reasons.
Outside of certain indie titles I see very little of interest worth playing.
In the recent most anticipated games of 2017 I saw no more than 5 which would be of any interest. My guess is you saw far more.
There is a definite dearth of interesting new titles for those of peculiar tastes.
In reality:
1) More people than ever before are playing mmos
I'd be interested in you proving this statement with some sort of factual links.
Try not to use the overly loose definition of MMO please, if it doesn't support 500+ people in a single environment, leave it off the list.
Wasn't aware you were in charge of making the definition of an mmo...When you need to move the goal post in your attempt to disprove facts it's not worth the time to engage you in a conversation as you will continue to move the goal post...
Gaming is not in a swamp. Movies and music have it far worse.
Our medium is doing just fine. As is our genre. There are a ton of different games out and coming out.
Hey Chicken Little! Look up. The sky is not falling.
If you dont discern between the various types of games then sure, there are "plenty" of new ones out there.
Sort of like telling a football fan there are plenty of games (baseball, basketball, hockey) to watch after the Superbowl. Not if they don't enjoy watching "sports", my father was one such as this. Golf and football (pro only), nothing else mattered.
But look at the top off this page, "MMORPG.com"
Yeah, far fewer of those coming out these days, and most of what is out there are of Asian design which I generally don't care for due to various reasons.
Outside of certain indie titles I see very little of interest worth playing.
In the recent most anticipated games of 2017 I saw no more than 5 which would be of any interest. My guess is you saw far more.
There is a definite dearth of interesting new titles for those of peculiar tastes.
In reality:
1) More people than ever before are playing mmos
I'd be interested in you proving this statement with some sort of factual links.
Try not to use the overly loose definition of MMO please, if it doesn't support 500+ people in a single environment, leave it off the list.
Wasn't aware you were in charge of making the definition of an mmo...When you need to move the goal post in your attempt to disprove facts it's not worth the time to engage you in a conversation as you will continue to move the goal post...
MMO definition has always been the same. Obviously there is a difference between a multiplayer game and a massively multiplayer game.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but when you are stating facts you got to be able to provide source and numbers - you can't say it is a fact because it feels right to you.
Now I'm not sure about the numbers either, but what I feel is MOBAs have taken in a lot of players in the past couple of years and there aren't as many MMO players as it used to be in the west. Again, that's what I sense is right, I'm not saying it is a fact.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Completely agreed with leveling part. RPGs(and other games with RPG elements) need to find an alternative to this one. To me the leveling part feels like a giant CHORE: You don't have a full playstyle, it takes too long to do anything, encourages creating "quests"(don't get me started on that one) for reward's sake, not for interesting gameplay or interesting story's sake. I'd love to see an innovation happen to the typical RPG tropes. Come on, it's year 2017. Some of this rules date from like 1985...
"Growth" is still important. It's why we play these games. There are plenty of games with little or no growth like MOBAs or shooters. They're extremely popular but that doesn't mean that RPGs should copy them.
But there ARE MMOs that have minimized the impact of character level on growth - ESO for example - although they can also be seen as leveling something else other than yourself as a replacement for character level progression.
IDK... I'm still not tired of leveling. it's what hooks me into playing some games for a long time.
Concerning ESO, it is fine. It just lacks structure for me. Currently it's create character -> do whatever. Maybe the first few hours are misleading, but I can't get through those. Every other concept is just fine. What is it you enjoy in leveling process?
It's a lot more dramatic and satisfying in books, movies and games to go on a journey of personal growth that progressively makes you capable of overcoming greater challenges.
If not for the leveling process you'd start a game with god-like powers and vanquish all evil by pressing one key... where do you go from there?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Gaming is not in a swamp. Movies and music have it far worse.
Our medium is doing just fine. As is our genre. There are a ton of different games out and coming out.
Hey Chicken Little! Look up. The sky is not falling.
If you dont discern between the various types of games then sure, there are "plenty" of new ones out there.
Sort of like telling a football fan there are plenty of games (baseball, basketball, hockey) to watch after the Superbowl. Not if they don't enjoy watching "sports", my father was one such as this. Golf and football (pro only), nothing else mattered.
But look at the top off this page, "MMORPG.com"
Yeah, far fewer of those coming out these days, and most of what is out there are of Asian design which I generally don't care for due to various reasons.
Outside of certain indie titles I see very little of interest worth playing.
In the recent most anticipated games of 2017 I saw no more than 5 which would be of any interest. My guess is you saw far more.
There is a definite dearth of interesting new titles for those of peculiar tastes.
In reality:
1) More people than ever before are playing mmos
I'd be interested in you proving this statement with some sort of factual links.
Try not to use the overly loose definition of MMO please, if it doesn't support 500+ people in a single environment, leave it off the list.
Wasn't aware you were in charge of making the definition of an mmo...When you need to move the goal post in your attempt to disprove facts it's not worth the time to engage you in a conversation as you will continue to move the goal post...
MMO definition has always been the same. Obviously there is a difference between a multiplayer game and a massively multiplayer game.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but when you are stating facts you got to be able to provide source and numbers - you can't say it is a fact because it feels right to you.
Now I'm not sure about the numbers either, but what I feel is MOBAs have taken in a lot of players in the past couple of years and there aren't as many MMO players as it used to be in the west. Again, that's what I sense is right, I'm not saying it is a fact.
Well a few things that are facts and add to the fact mmos have more people playing then ever before.
1) Even when PC sales are down double digits gaming PC sales remain up. More people are playing PC games.
2) Consold sales are outpacing last generation and more and more mmos are jumping over to the console. This has opened up mmos to a potential new playerbase exceeding 100 million players.
3) Most mmos are FREE this brings in another group of players who would never had tried mmos in the past.
4) There are more mmos then ever before to play.
Add all that up and it's obvious today the audience for mmos has never been larger and the ability to access mmos has never been eaesier. I get it according to this site the genre is dying and they don't like the obvious facts and will move the goal post anytime someone throws a wrinkle in their crusade.
Now if the old vets want to argue these players don't stick with one game for a long period of time that's a fair argument. The playerbase has shifted gamers today can play multiple games and are not stuck and don't need a badge saying they have played game X for X years straight.
Now if anyone has info to disprove anything I said feel free to post it I would love to see it.
I read comments and I see people misunderstanding and associating certain problems that has more to do with (misleading) marketing than players/users.
We are not the target market anymore. Everyone here is not the ideal consumer in the eyes of the publishers. We come here, we discuss (even if some are one-sided about certain topics, we still share information), we learn new things and we change.
As Todd Howard said: "Gaming wasn't a big deal back then, we had this small booth, and because we were making games they put us besides the porn section".
Companies had to fight for space... Now... How many quests in WoW past WotLK are not "pop culture" references? How many games do we have with a concept which wasn't conceived to attract x or y group instead of developers making something out of inspiration and creativity?
Yes, movies and books has way more than gaming on this - that doesn't make anything better - it's actually the other way around. I'm as tired of these so called "games" which are only a brand to attract X group as I am tired of "teenager sci fi movies with that pretty face" to attract stupid people who can't use their brain so they feed them some bullshit with lasers.
There are still great "games" out there. But there are a lot of things disguised as games too.
Completely agreed with leveling part. RPGs(and other games with RPG elements) need to find an alternative to this one. To me the leveling part feels like a giant CHORE: You don't have a full playstyle, it takes too long to do anything, encourages creating "quests"(don't get me started on that one) for reward's sake, not for interesting gameplay or interesting story's sake. I'd love to see an innovation happen to the typical RPG tropes. Come on, it's year 2017. Some of this rules date from like 1985...
"Growth" is still important. It's why we play these games. There are plenty of games with little or no growth like MOBAs or shooters. They're extremely popular but that doesn't mean that RPGs should copy them.
But there ARE MMOs that have minimized the impact of character level on growth - ESO for example - although they can also be seen as leveling something else other than yourself as a replacement for character level progression.
IDK... I'm still not tired of leveling. it's what hooks me into playing some games for a long time.
Concerning ESO, it is fine. It just lacks structure for me. Currently it's create character -> do whatever. Maybe the first few hours are misleading, but I can't get through those. Every other concept is just fine. What is it you enjoy in leveling process?
It's a lot more dramatic and satisfying in books, movies and games to go on a journey of personal growth that progressively makes you capable of overcoming greater challenges.
If not for the leveling process you'd start a game with god-like powers and vanquish all evil by pressing one key... where do you go from there?
Please... Leveling is not a RPG term or anything - it was conceived on old Dungeons and Dragons and it is a bad system just like the overall old D&D was. With race/class and xp limitations.
They could easily make a MMORPG that would follow Storyteller (White Wolf's World of Darkness, "D10") where you don't have levels and exchange your XP directly to single skill points to whatever thing you want to level (using a xp to skill point convertion cost) or GURPS that follows the same concept.
It is just it would require more thinking than this "take this level package and move on, no questions asked" we have today.
"They could easily make a MMORPG that would follow Storyteller (White Wolf's World of Darkness, "D10") where you don't have levels and exchange your XP directly to single skill points to whatever thing you want to level "
See? You're doing it yourself. You're using the word "level" to talk about something that isn't D&D "stick a point in Wisdom and learn 3 new spells." We all also call that "leveling" although a better term would be "growth."
I could give less of a shit about that old fashioned D&D thing called leveling. Growth, OTOH, is essential.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I read comments and I see people misunderstanding and associating certain problems that has more to do with (misleading) marketing than players/users.
We are not the target market anymore. Everyone here is not the ideal consumer in the eyes of the publishers. We come here, we discuss (even if some are one-sided about certain topics, we still share information), we learn new things and we change.
As Todd Howard said: "Gaming wasn't a big deal back then, we had this small booth, and because we were making games they put us besides the porn section".
Companies had to fight for space... Now... How many quests in WoW past WotLK are not "pop culture" references? How many games do we have with a concept which wasn't conceived to attract x or y group instead of developers making something out of inspiration and creativity?
Yes, movies and books has way more than gaming on this - that doesn't make anything better - it's actually the other way around. I'm as tired of these so called "games" which are only a brand to attract X group as I am tired of "teenager sci fi movies with that pretty face" to attract stupid people who can't use their brain so they feed them some bullshit with lasers.
There are still great "games" out there. But there are a lot of things disguised as games too.
Completely agreed with leveling part. RPGs(and other games with RPG elements) need to find an alternative to this one. To me the leveling part feels like a giant CHORE: You don't have a full playstyle, it takes too long to do anything, encourages creating "quests"(don't get me started on that one) for reward's sake, not for interesting gameplay or interesting story's sake. I'd love to see an innovation happen to the typical RPG tropes. Come on, it's year 2017. Some of this rules date from like 1985...
"Growth" is still important. It's why we play these games. There are plenty of games with little or no growth like MOBAs or shooters. They're extremely popular but that doesn't mean that RPGs should copy them.
But there ARE MMOs that have minimized the impact of character level on growth - ESO for example - although they can also be seen as leveling something else other than yourself as a replacement for character level progression.
IDK... I'm still not tired of leveling. it's what hooks me into playing some games for a long time.
Concerning ESO, it is fine. It just lacks structure for me. Currently it's create character -> do whatever. Maybe the first few hours are misleading, but I can't get through those. Every other concept is just fine. What is it you enjoy in leveling process?
It's a lot more dramatic and satisfying in books, movies and games to go on a journey of personal growth that progressively makes you capable of overcoming greater challenges.
If not for the leveling process you'd start a game with god-like powers and vanquish all evil by pressing one key... where do you go from there?
Please... Leveling is not a RPG term or anything - it was conceived on old Dungeons and Dragons and it is a bad system just like the overall old D&D was. With race/class and xp limitations.
They could easily make a MMORPG that would follow Storyteller (White Wolf's World of Darkness, "D10") where you don't have levels and exchange your XP directly to single skill points to whatever thing you want to level (using a xp to skill point convertion cost) or GURPS that follows the same concept.
It is just it would require more thinking than this "take this level package and move on, no questions asked" we have today.
"They could easily make a MMORPG that would follow Storyteller (White Wolf's World of Darkness, "D10") where you don't have levels and exchange your XP directly to single skill points to whatever thing you want to level "
See? You're doing it yourself. You're using the word "level" to talk about something that isn't D&D "stick a point in Wisdom and learn 3 new spells." We all also call that "leveling" although a better term would be "growth."
I could give less of a shit about that old fashioned D&D thing called leveling. Growth, OTOH, is essential.
Oh my god semantics.
"exchange your XP directly to single skill points to whatever thing you want to raise" better?
So according to you D&D created and coined the word "level". Of course.
You having reading comprehension issues?
I used the word leveling as a synonym for growth. Anyone who read the first paragraph of what I wrote would know that.
Semantics horseshit was when you seized on the word leveling, said "oh please" and went off on your schtick about D&D style leveling... which wasn't what I was talking about in the first place.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Let me start and say I'm not here to give game design tutorials. When I graduated High School, having three classes in Programming (this was the time of DOS 1.0). I thought that programming was so easy it would go the way of minimum wage jobs and be done by H.S. graduates. So it was the third degree I got, behind Mechanical and Electrical Engineering.
3. Games that Transcend Mobile. Both Console and mobile are limiting factors to PC gaming. Just look at Minecraft vs Minecraft PE. These are incompatible platforms. Remember back to the Spiderman game that was great on console, but they couldn't be bothered to properly port the game to keyboard.
Not all games are Minecraft. As I've already demonstrated, it's easy to find an example of a game that has indeed "truly built a full bridge between the two"... going on six years now.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Comments
100% agree but you will only very rarely see it here.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but when you are stating facts you got to be able to provide source and numbers - you can't say it is a fact because it feels right to you.
Now I'm not sure about the numbers either, but what I feel is MOBAs have taken in a lot of players in the past couple of years and there aren't as many MMO players as it used to be in the west. Again, that's what I sense is right, I'm not saying it is a fact.
It's a lot more dramatic and satisfying in books, movies and games to go on a journey of personal growth that progressively makes you capable of overcoming greater challenges.
If not for the leveling process you'd start a game with god-like powers and vanquish all evil by pressing one key... where do you go from there?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
1) Even when PC sales are down double digits gaming PC sales remain up. More people are playing PC games.
2) Consold sales are outpacing last generation and more and more mmos are jumping over to the console. This has opened up mmos to a potential new playerbase exceeding 100 million players.
3) Most mmos are FREE this brings in another group of players who would never had tried mmos in the past.
4) There are more mmos then ever before to play.
Add all that up and it's obvious today the audience for mmos has never been larger and the ability to access mmos has never been eaesier. I get it according to this site the genre is dying and they don't like the obvious facts and will move the goal post anytime someone throws a wrinkle in their crusade.
Now if the old vets want to argue these players don't stick with one game for a long period of time that's a fair argument. The playerbase has shifted gamers today can play multiple games and are not stuck and don't need a badge saying they have played game X for X years straight.
Now if anyone has info to disprove anything I said feel free to post it I would love to see it.
See? You're doing it yourself. You're using the word "level" to talk about something that isn't D&D "stick a point in Wisdom and learn 3 new spells." We all also call that "leveling" although a better term would be "growth."
I could give less of a shit about that old fashioned D&D thing called leveling. Growth, OTOH, is essential.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I used the word leveling as a synonym for growth. Anyone who read the first paragraph of what I wrote would know that.
Semantics horseshit was when you seized on the word leveling, said "oh please" and went off on your schtick about D&D style leveling... which wasn't what I was talking about in the first place.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance