Remember as well with Star Citizen, they aren't making a bespoke engine to run it, they instead opted to use CryEngine and modify that, so really that should have given them a massive speed boost in terms of development.
Also remember before the massive feature creep they said they could release the game in 2014, obviously the feature creep has destroyed any time scale they keep coming up with, personally I don't think they know when it will be done atm, especially in it's current state.
3.0 was touted as being possibly released by Christmas 2016, they are now saying they still have to decide whats going to be in 3.0, if that doesn't worry you I'm not sure what will.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Remember as well with Star Citizen, they aren't making a bespoke engine to run it, they instead opted to use CryEngine and modify that, so really that should have given them a massive speed boost in terms of development.
Yes, that applied to the older scope of the game, a much simpler superficial game that planned to just use most of the tech Cryengine already had to offer back then.
As they already admitted if they knew they'd have as much money and staff they would have went with make their own engine instead, because most of their engine right now is more their code than CE's code.
The more complex it became, the more the engine became unfit for what they wanted to do, hence it was quite visible they were going through engineering debt, up until the office on Germany appears to respond to that need.
3.0 was touted as being possibly released by Christmas 2016, they are now saying they still have to decide whats going to be in 3.0, if that doesn't worry you I'm not sure what will.
Imho, the reason I would give is, while their time keeping is shit, they have proven they will deliver patches/content. It's been the case throughout the development. Not yet have they delayed major parts and then completely canceled/removed it. 2.0/SM for example
So while 3.0 might be delayed, it will be delivered. Once I hear the words canceled, then I think panic can settle in lol
But you guys do realize that, for ref, WoW in 2004 cost 65M and took almost 5 years to make.
And WoW just copied Everquest...they really didn't bring anything new to the MMO market, their game just reached unseen popularity.
So double the budget, 13 years later really still isn't all that much...especially when you consider they aren't just making another MMO the likes of which we've seen before. They are trying to make something the likes of which hasn't been done. As for production time: WoW took almost 5 years to make, SWTOR took about 5 years. We see games like Darkfall that take like 10....WoW just copied Everquest....SWTOR just coppied WoW....these games were not making all new systems...so SC hitting 5 years this year is perfectly acceptable. A game pushing the limits of what we've seen in MMO's taking 1 or 2 years longer than a copy/paste MMO doesn't seem all that bad to me.
I personally only own 1 cheapo $60 ship...so I am in no way very invested into this game....but am just trying to give you guys some references as to how long the average MMO takes to make and how much it costs to do what's already been done before vs pushing the boundaries.
And who cares if it's later than what was said. If I tell you I'm going to deliver your Lambo in April and it doesn't show up, sure you'll be disappointed, but when it comes in December are you going to pout and not accept it? Heck no! Much rather have my finished Lambo in December than just the frame in April :P.
My guess: you played that certain Blizzard game and you liked it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
So now the acceptable frame of reference is the most successful MMO ever made, and when comparing one should keep in mind that Star Citizen is better.
WoW wasn't a good reference tbh, but the point he's making is still there. What people seem not take into consideration is the complexity of the project, which will play a massive hand in how fast it will progress. Regardless of how much you plan, when jumping into the unknown many mistakes and delays will occur. If they were making a bog standard themepark MMO, then yeah, they should be almost there by now and complaining about delays and such would make a lot more sense, but they're not.
What makes this more confusing to me is most of these people that have beef about launch, over the years were saying this project was impossible and very very ambitious, yet they're expecting it to be done in less than 5 years? They're expecting it to be released and fully functional in less time it takes for a single player game to made? So to me that says they know it's a complex project and it will take time, but choose to ignore it for dramas sake. I would say if by this time next year, we are still looking at an alpha with not much change to what it is now, then I think it's fair to raise an eyebrow.
It's fine to be skeptical or give negative feedback, but when people just repeat the same lines for the past 3 years that have been explained already, how can we expect a discussion to go anywhere?
You'r esaying as if the haters came up with impossible release dates when in fact it was CR who claimed these impossible deadlines
The "haters" as you call them are simply mocking CR's incompetence at estimating dates.
Noone would be hating the long development time if CR wasnt so full of himself and simply said "whoah there guys, this is a shit ton of features. We CAN deliver them, but dont expect the game to be released before 2020"
When in fact he said the opposite: "Hey guys, if you keep throwing stacks of money at us, we will have enough resources to achieve all these extreme features without development delays! We promise!"
5 years later and 140 mil $ later he states they barely have the money to finish SQ42 with 3 years of delay and SC release nowhere to be seen, probably 2020
You see now why are people hating his attitude and the entire development bullshit?
Except it hasn't been 5 years "development" and they haven't spent $140M.
CR won't be doing the estimating the dates anymore. And if you want to say that is the reason release dates haven't been missed anymore - fine.
And the first 55k backers had a vote to whether to go with more stretched timescales knowing it would push the release dates out. So why hark back to the original estimates.
Maybe you were an early backer and voted not to extend?
There are to few games being developed to hate on SC, hate on Pantheon, hate on CU, Crowfall, Repopulation and so on.
I'm not following too closely, cauz I'm just waiting for release and in no rush. From what I see though, they are making progress regularly and keeping the community informed. Short of finishing now, they seem to be doing things right for the most part. Not as fast as people want, but methodically making progress. Seems good. Not without it's share of problems of course, but overall, I'm content.
Remember as well with Star Citizen, they aren't making a bespoke engine to run it, they instead opted to use CryEngine and modify that, so really that should have given them a massive speed boost in terms of development.
3.0 was touted as being possibly released by Christmas 2016, they are now saying they still have to decide whats going to be in 3.0, if that doesn't worry you I'm not sure what will.
Going with any developed engine will have given them a massive boost. Engines take a long time to build from scratch.
As for them saying that they still have to decide what is going in 3.0 that is exactly what they have been saying since the end of 2015.
For the alpha they set themselves hard targets. It was tough - go back and read about it - and it will have generated a lot of extra management effort. Subsequently they opted for a different approach: key milestones + soft targets. Once the key targets are achieved they will move to release the patch with whatever soft targets are complete. Less project management effort; less stress on the team.
And - as this is alpha development - this is a perfectly sensible approach. That is why - however - they won't say exactly will be in a patch.
The creepy part is that is just like that. It'll be some sorts of "he's trying to tell us the truth disguised as a joke". The same thing with that artist that had the honesty button in one ship, said it was "a cry for help".
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
The creepy part is that is just like that. It'll be some sorts of "he's trying to tell us the truth disguised as a joke". The same thing with that artist that had the honesty button in one ship, said it was "a cry for help".
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
Yep I remember an ATV episode where someone was joking around about something Dev related and the dude with the bad eye kinda gave a strange look and everyone went "see! It's all falling apart!". Their was a big thread here about it. I'm sure @Erillion will remember what I'm talking about. It was hilarious.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Very generous way of using version numbers for something in (pre?) alpha. 3.0 suggests a large content update for a game that has been released a while ago.
The creepy part is that is just like that. It'll be some sorts of "he's trying to tell us the truth disguised as a joke". The same thing with that artist that had the honesty button in one ship, said it was "a cry for help".
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
Then maybe they need to stop talking and making promises their track record proves they cannot keep and just deliver the game they promised.
The creepy part is that is just like that. It'll be some sorts of "he's trying to tell us the truth disguised as a joke". The same thing with that artist that had the honesty button in one ship, said it was "a cry for help".
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
Then maybe they need to stop talking and making promises their track record proves they cannot keep and just deliver the game they promised.
Not even what the Baconator was talking about.
Did you click on the link he provided? That joke and how it could be blown out of proportion is what he was talking about. Now how much they have blown through release dates like a kid in a candy store. Different issue.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
In a couple of months we will still be hearing about it from CIG, all the while White Knights tell us about "how of course noone could expect it to be out yet, duh"!
I SWEAR this Star Citizen "critics" here are more delusional than the backers of this game.
The backers of this game by a wide agreement are expecting 3.0 on the 2nd half of 2017, not "around the corner" or couple of months, nope.
If you're just implying the backers of this game are expecting 3.0 to be "just around the corner"... I can tell you right now, most are not expecting it to be out that soon.
I was no implying anything. I wasjJust calling this guy out on being overly optmistic and explaining how this would play out. I just missed the timing of the White Knight defence speach. I came now and not later. My bad...
Well then! I just find silly peeps who imply the backers are this and think that, to call themselves righteous, even though they are running on the wrong assumption the people they are pointing the finger at to give themselves credibility are mostly of the same opinion; that is what I got from the last bit of your previous post.
The creepy part is that is just like that. It'll be some sorts of "he's trying to tell us the truth disguised as a joke". The same thing with that artist that had the honesty button in one ship, said it was "a cry for help".
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
Yep I remember an ATV episode where someone was joking around about something Dev related and the dude with the bad eye kinda gave a strange look and everyone went "see! It's all falling apart!". Their was a big thread here about it. I'm sure @Erillion will remember what I'm talking about. It was hilarious.
Ah yes ... the "this new guy will be fired next week because he spoke the truth and everyone gave him the bad eye" thread ....
It was about reworking the character pipeline and work being done on avatar clothing.
Major conspiracy theories originated from that episode.
Disco Lando loves to poke the conspiracy nuts from time to time .. with a pointed stick.
Comments
Also remember before the massive feature creep they said they could release the game in 2014, obviously the feature creep has destroyed any time scale they keep coming up with, personally I don't think they know when it will be done atm, especially in it's current state.
3.0 was touted as being possibly released by Christmas 2016, they are now saying they still have to decide whats going to be in 3.0, if that doesn't worry you I'm not sure what will.
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
As they already admitted if they knew they'd have as much money and staff they would have went with make their own engine instead, because most of their engine right now is more their code than CE's code.
The more complex it became, the more the engine became unfit for what they wanted to do, hence it was quite visible they were going through engineering debt, up until the office on Germany appears to respond to that need.
So while 3.0 might be delayed, it will be delivered. Once I hear the words canceled, then I think panic can settle in lol
https://clips.twitch.tv/starcitizen/differenthedgehogpetezarolltie
Coming to a tinfoil hat convention soon!
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Except it hasn't been 5 years "development" and they haven't spent $140M.
CR won't be doing the estimating the dates anymore. And if you want to say that is the reason release dates haven't been missed anymore - fine.
And the first 55k backers had a vote to whether to go with more stretched timescales knowing it would push the release dates out. So why hark back to the original estimates.
Maybe you were an early backer and voted not to extend?
There are to few games being developed to hate on SC, hate on Pantheon, hate on CU, Crowfall, Repopulation and so on.
I self identify as a monkey.
Going with any developed engine will have given them a massive boost. Engines take a long time to build from scratch.
As for them saying that they still have to decide what is going in 3.0 that is exactly what they have been saying since the end of 2015.
For the alpha they set themselves hard targets. It was tough - go back and read about it - and it will have generated a lot of extra management effort. Subsequently they opted for a different approach: key milestones + soft targets. Once the key targets are achieved they will move to release the patch with whatever soft targets are complete. Less project management effort; less stress on the team.
And - as this is alpha development - this is a perfectly sensible approach. That is why - however - they won't say exactly will be in a patch.
They can't say or do anything without it being dissected microscopically. xD
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
3.0 suggests a large content update for a game that has been released a while ago.
Did you click on the link he provided? That joke and how it could be blown out of proportion is what he was talking about. Now how much they have blown through release dates like a kid in a candy store. Different issue.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
I was no implying anything. I wasjJust calling this guy out on being overly optmistic and explaining how this would play out. I just missed the timing of the White Knight defence speach. I came now and not later. My bad...
The timeframe will expand or shrink depending on what suits the current argument.
It was about reworking the character pipeline and work being done on avatar clothing.
Major conspiracy theories originated from that episode.
Disco Lando loves to poke the conspiracy nuts from time to time .. with a pointed stick.
Have fun
19.Nov 2012 .... Kickstarter successfully finished.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/updates
Cloud Imperium Games CIG : founded April 2012
https://cloudimperiumgames.com/about
Have fun
If you consider getting one of THESE for FREE as being trolled .... then i want to get trolled like that.
This Mustang is flyable in game for a long time now and looks extremely well IMHO.
Have fun