This company managed to play it smart LOL

Copperfield

Amazing policy here

kick start a game and trust the devolpers team.. in order to make a SWG based mmorpg

the company sells the whole the game and ip to third party.

Orginal developers use my money to make a new game called fragmented.. which i did not support.

they ran away from the repop will full pockets??


common man is this shit even legal?

Righteous_Rock

Can't you just magically make your money reappear?

Certhas

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

Boneserino

Certhas said:

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.  

They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for.  The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds.   The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people.   The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work.   Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.   

But thats the nature of this beast.   It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO.  With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases.   However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money.  Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it.    That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.

Copperfield

Boneserino said:

Certhas said:

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.  

They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for.  The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds.   The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people.   The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work.   Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.   

But thats the nature of this beast.   It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO.  With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases.   However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money.  Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it.    That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.

the devs of the orginal lied for serveral mounths about importing the assest into unreal engine..

this was a life span for around 1 year

And im not whining about my money.. i simply complain about there is no legal laws regarding this matter.

H0urg1ass

Copperfield said:

Boneserino said:

Certhas said:

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.  

They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for.  The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds.   The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people.   The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work.   Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.   

But thats the nature of this beast.   It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO.  With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases.   However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money.  Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it.    That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.

the devs of the orginal lied for serveral mounths about importing the assest into unreal engine..

this was a life span for around 1 year

And im not whining about my money.. i simply complain about there is no legal laws regarding this matter.

But there is a law regarding this kind of matter:  "A fool and his money are soon parted"

You see, it's 99% your responsibility to manage your own cash flow.  No matter how many times I come here, pull out my megaphone and shout for people to stop throwing their cash at these 2 bit developers with no proven track record for anything, they still jump on that hype train.

I've said it a million times before and I'll keep saying it until I die.  You don't pay someone for work they haven't done.  I wouldn't pay a roofer to roof my house until he finished it and I had a code inspector check it out.

If it's an investment, on the other hand, where the company is taking your dollars and converting them into company shares, then it's a different story.  You buy a product, you invest in an idea.

CrazKanuk

Copperfield said:

Boneserino said:

Certhas said:

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.  

They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for.  The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds.   The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people.   The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work.   Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.   

But thats the nature of this beast.   It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO.  With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases.   However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money.  Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it.    That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.

the devs of the orginal lied for serveral mounths about importing the assest into unreal engine..

this was a life span for around 1 year

And im not whining about my money.. i simply complain about there is no legal laws regarding this matter.

No laws about what? You're quite the spin doctor, because that's not how it went down AT ALLLL! 

First of all, this was in development for years until they discovered that they had severe issues with the engine. So they decided to move over to Unreal in order to get around this. Fragmented was developed during this transition to the new engine, likely as a means of familiarizing all devs to it. However, it wasn't until AFTER Fragmented as already on Steam that they ended up selling The Repop intellectual property. They aren't lining their pockets with gold, they were tapped, right out of money. There was zero chance this was being finished unless they sold the IP to someone else. Could even be that developer will honor your original package. 

Also, there's a great reason that there aren't laws surrounding this, it's because you are the one who gave them your fucking money! Go read a TOS for once. What did you think that Kickstarter was? If you want a guarantee then go to Walmart. 

Copperfield

what is walmart?

Phry

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

In the UK its called ASDA, basically, stack them high and sell them cheap.

Kyleran

Boneserino said:

Certhas said:

They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.

This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.  

They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for.  The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds.   The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people.   The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work.   Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.   

But thats the nature of this beast.   It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO.  With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases.   However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money.  Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it.    That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.

Wait if both you and I, plus almost everyone else know it takes a ton of money to make a full featured MMO isn't it dishonest to promise to deliver one on a shoestring budget?

Taking peoples money when you know it can't be done does seem to be a bit of a scam, especially when you repurpose the assets to deliver another type of game entirely.

Full refunds to any who request them is the way to go, like Smedly just did when his vision did not pan out.

So the new owners are claiming to still be trying to deliver the original vision, maybe it will all work out.

But as you pointed out, without proper funding I think most of these indie efforts will disappoint assuming they even manage to release anything.

Heck, even with bigger funding no guarantee titles such as Crow Fall or Star Citizen will succeed.

GladDog

Yeah a kickstarter is an investment.  You invest money that you can afford to lose.  I have a hundred bucks to invest in a Superhero game kickstarter, and I will put it in one of two games.  But that $100 USD is money I can afford to lose.

Both of these games are risky, and I know that.  But they both are what I think I would enjoy playing, so I want in.  If I lose my hundred, oh well, I can afford that much.  But if I needed to cough up more, then I would not justify it.  I would not be comfortable investing more than that hundred in an unknown company developing an ambitious product.

Someone that is on his last dollar until payday would do far better to buy a cup of coffee than a lottery ticket.  That person is 171 million times more likely to get more joy out of that cup o' jo than out of that lottery ticket.  That is the difference between a product and an investment.

GladDog

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

The largest general retailer in North America, with a strong presence in Asia.  I thought they were in Europe as well, but apparently not in Rotterdam.  They are noted for their low price policy.

CrazKanuk

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

It's the place where Americans go to buy super cheap stuff and then return later when they realize it's an utter piece of shit

Albatroes

::slowly turns his head to CoE:: Good luck guys....

GladDog

CrazKanuk said:

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

It's the place where Americans go to buy super cheap stuff and then return later when they realize it's an utter piece of shit

Kind of like Perfect World and Funcom?

Kyleran

CrazKanuk said:

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

It's the place where Americans go to buy super cheap stuff and then return later when they realize it's an utter piece of shit

2nd largest grocery retailer in Florida.

Which is also the 2nd largest location of Canadians. 

Who knew?

HolyAvengerOne

You must be pretty confused about game development and business in general to believe this was a scam. You also need to be totally ignorant of what happened over the last few year with that title and developers.

Nice troll / tantrum though. I just hope you feel better, because no one reading it did.

ConstantineMerus

H0urg1ass said:

But there is a law regarding this kind of matter:  "A fool and his money are soon parted"

You see, it's 99% your responsibility to manage your own cash flow.  No matter how many times I come here, pull out my megaphone and shout for people to stop throwing their cash at these 2 bit developers with no proven track record for anything, they still jump on that hype train.

I've said it a million times before and I'll keep saying it until I die.  You don't pay someone for work they haven't done.  I wouldn't pay a roofer to roof my house until he finished it and I had a code inspector check it out.

If it's an investment, on the other hand, where the company is taking your dollars and converting them into company shares, then it's a different story.  You buy a product, you invest in an idea.

First of all, calling people a fool is a bit out there. I bet if you write down your expense list over the past few years we'd be finding a lot of foolish stuff you paid for and the sum would be hell lot more than an average pledge (~$100) to The Repopulation. 

You are definitely right about one managing one's own money. Also right about throwing monies at 2-bit developers on some level. But that is what Kickstarter is for. Of course famous people would have no problem funding their projects. It is the small guys whom needs the help. Now I totally agree there should be a system to assess the projects and monitor them better. But based on your logic only the rich would get richer. That is already happening, we don't need crowdfunding for that. 

The part about the roof analogy you are comparing apples and oranges. They are not working for you, at all. Completely unrelated. 

You are neither buying a product, or investing in an idea. Kickstarer is about neither of those. You are pledging to an idea, and you are getting a thank you in return. That thank you varies in different projects. 

Besides MMORPG campaigns--which the verdict is still out there due to their long development period- you should check how many great projects have been done with the help of crowdfunding platforms. And if you check the numbers for each site you'll realize there has been less than %0.5 of failed projects. 

So maybe you should holster your megaphone for a while and do a bit of research yourself as well before calling people fools next time!

Also "fool and his money..." is not a law! :pleased: 

H0urg1ass

ConstantineMerus said:

H0urg1ass said:

But there is a law regarding this kind of matter:  "A fool and his money are soon parted"

You see, it's 99% your responsibility to manage your own cash flow.  No matter how many times I come here, pull out my megaphone and shout for people to stop throwing their cash at these 2 bit developers with no proven track record for anything, they still jump on that hype train.

I've said it a million times before and I'll keep saying it until I die.  You don't pay someone for work they haven't done.  I wouldn't pay a roofer to roof my house until he finished it and I had a code inspector check it out.

If it's an investment, on the other hand, where the company is taking your dollars and converting them into company shares, then it's a different story.  You buy a product, you invest in an idea.

First of all, calling people a fool is a bit out there. I bet if you write down your expense list over the past few years we'd be finding a lot of foolish stuff you paid for and the sum would be hell lot more than an average pledge (~$100) to The Repopulation. 

A careless song, with a little nonsense in it now and then, does not misbecome a monarch; but to pen manifestos worse than the lowest commis that is kept jointly by two or three Margraves, is insufferable!  - Horace Walpole

Yes, I have spent many a free dollar on nonsense and amusement.  You completely misrepresent foolishness for whimsical nonsense; something that everyone engages in to varying degrees.  A fool does not recognize the difference.  Anyone who pays someone for work which they have not yet performed, is indeed a fool, especially if they wholeheartedly expect a return worth what they paid before laying eyes on the workmanship.

People paid into Greedmonger, The Repopulation and several other games now just to see them die on the vine with their money, or even worse.  Such as when Mechwarrior Online took everyone's money and made a completely different game than the one promised.  But hey, at least they launched.  I guess, that's the right attitude.  I mean, I told the roofer I wanted clay tiles but he put the cheapest nylon shingles he could find on my roof, but hey, at least I got a roof over my head, right?  Right Piranha Games?

ConstantineMerus said:

You are definitely right about one managing one's own money. Also right about throwing monies at 2-bit developers on some level. But that is what Kickstarter is for. Of course famous people would have no problem funding their projects. It is the small guys whom needs the help. Now I totally agree there should be a system to assess the projects and monitor them better. But based on your logic only the rich would get richer. That is already happening, we don't need crowdfunding for that. 

This paragraph is a self-contradictory mess of you telling me I'm right and then launching into some occupy wall street nonsense to lend credence to Kickstarter.  Yes, there needs to be a lot more accountability on kickstarter, especially in the gaming genre.  I agree with that part.

What's even more amusing about this paragraph is that the most recent gaming Kickstarters that look like they're going to be successful, and have been successful, like Pillars of Eternity, Star Citizen, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained.... rich white guys!  Yeah, Chris Roberts, Feargus Urquhart, Chris Avellone, J. Todd Coleman and Marc Jacobs were all millionaires before crowdfunding MMO's.  So much for helping the little guys. 

ConstantineMerus said:

The part about the roof analogy you are comparing apples and oranges. They are not working for you, at all. Completely unrelated. 

You are neither buying a product, or investing in an idea. Kickstarer is about neither of those. You are pledging to an idea, and you are getting a thank you in return. That thank you varies in different projects. 

Yes a roof and a video game are an apple and an orange.  Paying someone up front for work they haven't done yet is the common denominator here.  Do I really have to break it down to those elementary particles or was that just a bad strawman attempt?  I can't really decide.

Yes, I know I'm neither buying a product or investing in an idea.  I'm simply giving someone money for work they haven't done yet.  Which is the point of my whole argument.  At least investing comes with the possibility of earning more than you spent back, and buying a product comes with an actual finished product.  Kickstarter, however is Leave it to Beaver naïveté.  You are handing someone some money and saying "Golly Gee Whiz Sir!  I sure hope that you do the right thing with all this money I'm giving you, and shame on you if you don't because I have no legal recourse through Kickstarter!"

ConstantineMerus said:

 And if you check the numbers for each site you'll realize there has been less than %0.5 of failed projects. 

Look, as someone with a Masters in Management, I can appreciate when people pull numbers out of their ass, employees do it to me all day but they've at least got to be reasonable numbers.  When I checked, I found that several reputable sites claimed 10% failure rate of funded projects.  It was a real quick google search of "percentage of failed kickstarters" if you want to see for yourself.  That means 1 in 10 funded projects fail.  I bet if I took the time to check MMORPG's more specifically, it would be a lot higher than 1 in 10 so far.

ConstantineMerus

***Sorry mate I didn't take the time to multi-quote properly, so if I am misrepresenting you anywhere accept my apologies in advance, wasn't my intention.

H0urg1ass said:

 Anyone who pays someone for work which they have not yet performed, ...

You keep repeating this statement as if it is a rule but it is not applicable to every situation, hence cannot be a rule. How should causes and charities work in your opinion? They don't have the means to complete a project first, then ask for money. They need to ask in advance, otherwise they can't even take the first step. 

Even if you treat it as a contract, most half-decent companies expect a down payment before even they look at the job. Not sure how do you get by. If you have/work in a company that would finish the project first before asking for money please make proper introductions that I have tons of work for you, no matter what you do I'll be a customer. I promise you that. Unless you are talking about the "2-bits" companies you are trying to avoid whom just need the work so bad that they are willing to finish first then get paid later. 

H0urg1ass said:

 People paid into Greedmonger, ...

I wasn't defending anyone whom took the money and made a run for it. Neither was defending any project with mismanagement or other sets of problems. Not sure what is your purpose by throwing these names at me and sorry I can't understand if you being sarcastic in the whole paragraph or just about some of them. If you expect an answer from me here need to clarify for me what is the question here. 

H0urg1ass said:

 This paragraph is a self-contradictory ...

I said you are right about one managing one's own money. Not sure where I have contradicted that down the line. 
I said you are right about 2-bit developers on some level--not completely. I agree on the part where we shouldn't be giving our monies to just about anyone. But there is some extend to that. We can't just be backing the already famous people. 

There is a beauty in crowdfunding in my opinion. Which is projects, ideas and people can have a chance of blossom by using this platform, whom have no chance by other means (finding an investor, taking a loan, etc.). 

Your rule is much safer true. I hire professionals and people with experience all the time. But I also try to find young talent as well. People just out of school. I see a potential in them, I give them a chance. Many times they disappoint me and I have to answer to my partners. But many times they amaze me and my partners thank me for it. I think the same is possible for unknown people with supposedly great ideas. But as I said before, their campaign and business should be monitored. 

Giving the little guys a chance and not just the already made guys does not equal occupy wall-street. There's a world of shades in between. Also I didn't add the white part, you did. You have to forgive me if I was vague on what I meant. I wasn't making a political statement or talking about the divide in society. I was talking about the already rich and famous, have other means to fund their projects. But it is either impossible or very hard for unknown people to fund their ideas, crowdfunding is a platform which gives them a chance. I didn't say don't back the famous people--I've made pledges to dozens of their campaigns. I said, if anyone can afford making pledges, should also to consider the smaller scaled not famous people as well. They too might have great ideas and they too might actually succeed if they have the funds. 

I guess I see crowdfunding is some sort of a charity with less of a spiritual but more of a materialistic reward. You see it as means of hiring/contracting/buying services/products. I believe how I see it is rather closer to its core concept. 

H0urg1ass said:

 Yes a roof and a video game are an apple and an orange...

I didn't compare a roof to a video game, I wasn't going for that part. I'm not sure you are trying to make me sound like an idiot to win the argument or you really don't understand the simplest statements I make here. I doubt if it's the latter hence a cheap way to win a debate mate. Also make your final decision as in where you see me from and what is my accent. So far I've been all over world! O.o

For the rest, I think my explanation before this quote can also extend here. 

H0urg1ass said:

 Look, as someone with a Masters in Management, ...

I understand you are trying to impress me with your education. Unlike you, I'm not trying to be offensive here, just stating a fact that might help you in your future debates. Okay, to be honest I am being a bit condescending here, but I can't help it! Studying Management is not what is considered impressive in any part of the world. Especially to someone like me whom gets applicants with your qualifications in my spam folder on a daily basis. You can be a graduate whom worth nothing, you can worth millions a year. I'm sure there is more to you but the part you mentioned added nothing to your worth neither helped any part of your argument. 

I am also appreciating the irony of you telling me how I pulled numbers out of my ass, then just doing exactly the same by referring me to Google and several reputable sites. But let's go with that anyway: 

90% success chance is just dreamy great. Be fair. 

CrazKanuk

Kyleran said:

CrazKanuk said:

Copperfield said:

what is walmart?

It's the place where Americans go to buy super cheap stuff and then return later when they realize it's an utter piece of shit

2nd largest grocery retailer in Florida.

Which is also the 2nd largest location of Canadians. 

Who knew?

Yup! I get my groceries there, lol. It's just so convenient. Everything is there!! I even buy their walmart brand cereal. My kids say they don't like it as much as the name brand, but they like it enough to still eat it, lol.

PottedPlant22

They didn't scam anyone.  They were overwhelmed by technical and development challenges.  The game buckled under that weight.  Who knows what the future holds for the game, but I wish it the best.

NagilumSadow

I posted while it was under development they should try and obtain the rights to Star Wars Galaxies, rather than waste their time on the The Repopulation. Galaxies, with a full development staff, had enough  technical challenges.

To me Repop never looked appealing.

HolyAvengerOne

NagilumSadow said:

I posted while it was under development they should try and obtain the rights to Star Wars Galaxies, rather than waste their time on the The Repopulation. Galaxies, with a full development staff, had enough  technical challenges.

To me Repop never looked appealing.

I wish the IP had been up for grabs, but I know several groups were interested in reviving it and none managed to secure the rights. I don't believe Lucasarts was interested in having more than 1 SW MMO out at a time.

HolyAvengerOne

PottedPlant22 said:

They didn't scam anyone.  They were overwhelmed by technical and development challenges.  The game buckled under that weight.  Who knows what the future holds for the game, but I wish it the best.

That's the attitude I don't think we have anything to lose and the new team looks like it may be able to look upon the game in a new light and maybe solve old issues, etc.

GeezerGamer

I don't think their intent was to run away with money. Otherwise we'd have had this very discussion years ago. No, I think they tried. Tried and failed, but still tried.