Dungeon Fighter Online had 3 million "concurrent" players in China alone. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-24-dungeon-fighter-online-passes-3-million-concurrent-users The stats you posted are total players for a quarter. Not the same thing. Also, who said anything about WoW being the best? You made a claim that most people who played WoW never played any other mmo. I rhetorically asked you for a source, knowing that there was none and you were just making baseless assumptions. You then claimed that since WoW is the most played mmo, that somehow backed your assumption that most WoW players never played anything else. I then pointed out the ridiculousness of that claim. Good strawman though.
In fact I do not say they never played anything else, but none or few games So to claim any game is the best is highly irrational.
Well, you are right, it WoW is not the most played game.
Still I'm not sure what are you arguing about? If you just want to prove I'm wrong about something - that is trolling. If you have a thesis about the topic or my thoughts, I'm waiting to hear it.
I've never known him give up until he gets the last post. Just let him reply to you and be done with it.
Oh look, I have a fan. Have you forgotten that this is a "discussion board"?
Yes, subjectively, you've read reviews you, subjectively, don't agree with. No, I don't have a degree in reviewing games. They don't even have courses for that in America. Maybe they do elsewhere, I don't know. I also don't have a degree in virtual systems, which also also very specific, and not something that American colleges and Universities provide. My opinion is more relevant than yours because I use very well defined criteria to review games whereas, you still haven't told me ANYTHING about how you would review a game, other than if it does everything differently than another game then it's great, which is fucking laughable. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see your 0/10 commentary on metacritic. Honestly, it's people like you who have completely fucked systems like Metacritic from providing ANY sort of useful data. If you're actually interested in objectively reviewing a game, then please learn what objective means first, then actually apply that to your assessment of games. Not being able to explain HOW you're being objective will ALWAYS make me more relevant than you. Period. Even if you're being COMPLETELY biased, you should be able to provide good, objective criteria that would support yourself, and you can't do that. You can't even tell me what a great game is versus Overwatch. You just avoid the question. That's cool, though, message received, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
There is not degree of reviewing games anywhere I suppose But there is a degree how the games actually work, like the Game theory, the Psychoanalysis, the Cybernetics, the Economy and etc. Your opinion is not more relevant than the opinion of anybody, as you are just a player. And even the idea, that owning and using of something is making you expert about it, is absurd.
But I will give you criteria for a MMO game - the competition, the cooperation, the progression, the risk/reward ratio, the choice/consequences ratio, the integrity of the design, the integrity of the lore, the usability, the short and the long term goals, the physics, the hedonic treadmill.
Dungeon Fighter Online had 3 million "concurrent" players in China alone. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-24-dungeon-fighter-online-passes-3-million-concurrent-users The stats you posted are total players for a quarter. Not the same thing. Also, who said anything about WoW being the best? You made a claim that most people who played WoW never played any other mmo. I rhetorically asked you for a source, knowing that there was none and you were just making baseless assumptions. You then claimed that since WoW is the most played mmo, that somehow backed your assumption that most WoW players never played anything else. I then pointed out the ridiculousness of that claim. Good strawman though.
In fact I do not say they never played anything else, but none or few games So to claim any game is the best is highly irrational.
Well, you are right, WoW is not the most played game.
Still I'm not sure what are you arguing about? If you just want to prove I'm wrong about something - that is trolling. If you have a thesis about the topic or my thoughts, I'm waiting to hear it.
Again with the strawman, when did I say anything about WoW being the best? I simply asked you to provide a source for your claim that most people who played WoW haven't played any other mmo, or have only played a few. So far you haven't been able to provide a source for that claim.
Blizzard keep dumbing down their classes, its to the point a monkey could make a working build. They lost me and many others that feel the same way. Sure they appeal to many but never everyone.
As a mythic raider I am currently bored to tears, maybe I have just been playing to long. Nighthold is incredibly boring with its very similar looking boss encounters. The loot other than tier feels so few and far betweeen. Mythic plus have stopped being fun weeks ago when i finished my artifact weapon. The only thing keeping me playing currently are guildmates and friends.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Dungeon Fighter Online had 3 million "concurrent" players in China alone. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-24-dungeon-fighter-online-passes-3-million-concurrent-users The stats you posted are total players for a quarter. Not the same thing. Also, who said anything about WoW being the best? You made a claim that most people who played WoW never played any other mmo. I rhetorically asked you for a source, knowing that there was none and you were just making baseless assumptions. You then claimed that since WoW is the most played mmo, that somehow backed your assumption that most WoW players never played anything else. I then pointed out the ridiculousness of that claim. Good strawman though.
In fact I do not say they never played anything else, but none or few games So to claim any game is the best is highly irrational.
Well, you are right, it WoW is not the most played game.
Still I'm not sure what are you arguing about? If you just want to prove I'm wrong about something - that is trolling. If you have a thesis about the topic or my thoughts, I'm waiting to hear it.
I've never known him give up until he gets the last post. Just let him reply to you and be done with it.
Oh look, I have a fan. Have you forgotten that this is a "discussion board"?
Im all up for discusion but you never concede anything. Even when people agree to disagree you have to keep going until you get the last post. A little piece of me dies every time i see you've entered the thread
I like the meme though havent seen that one before.
Yes, subjectively, you've read reviews you, subjectively, don't agree with. No, I don't have a degree in reviewing games. They don't even have courses for that in America. Maybe they do elsewhere, I don't know. I also don't have a degree in virtual systems, which also also very specific, and not something that American colleges and Universities provide. My opinion is more relevant than yours because I use very well defined criteria to review games whereas, you still haven't told me ANYTHING about how you would review a game, other than if it does everything differently than another game then it's great, which is fucking laughable. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see your 0/10 commentary on metacritic. Honestly, it's people like you who have completely fucked systems like Metacritic from providing ANY sort of useful data. If you're actually interested in objectively reviewing a game, then please learn what objective means first, then actually apply that to your assessment of games. Not being able to explain HOW you're being objective will ALWAYS make me more relevant than you. Period. Even if you're being COMPLETELY biased, you should be able to provide good, objective criteria that would support yourself, and you can't do that. You can't even tell me what a great game is versus Overwatch. You just avoid the question. That's cool, though, message received, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
There is not degree of reviewing games anywhere I suppose But there is a degree how the games actually work, like the Game theory, the Psychoanalysis, the Cybernetics, the Economy and etc. Your opinion is not more relevant than the opinion of anybody, as you are just a player. And even the idea, that owning and using of something is making you expert about it, is absurd.
But I will give you criteria for a MMO game - the competition, the cooperation, the progression, the risk/reward ratio, the choice/consequences ratio, the integrity of the design, the integrity of the lore, the usability, the short and the long term goals, the physics, the hedonic treadmill.
Yes, I have no degree in any of those subjects, but a great deal of my time is spent assessing risk, which is inherently objective. So I have a great deal of understanding of how to make something objective. Similarly, I'm assuming that someone who is reviewing games all day long is able to provide you with their criteria and benchmarks for each of those criteria. However, they're likely, also, able to provide you with subjective reasons that people might not like it. For instance, Overwatch has fantastic visuals, but if you're more interested in realistic graphics, then it might not be for you.
Ok, so you've managed to define criteria. Have you decided how you'll measure each? What's your standard, for risk/reward ratio, for instance? What is your benchmark? If you feel like this is getting ridiculous, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked any reviewer here to justify their review based on benchmarks, they could do it. That's what being objective is all about, and it sucks. So be subjective all you like, opinions are like assholes, though, everyone has one. If you want to be, actually, objective then you should back your shit up with actual examples and examination.
Ffxiv has 6 million accounts made. They never added servers since they claimed 1 million accounts at relaunch. It is impossible for the game to have 6 mill subs there are not enough servers running.
Game has between 600k and 800k active subs. This point in its patch cycle before the expansion more then likly the lower part since there is a long gap in content before the expansion.
Half the servers are void of life everywhere but shire.
Well no, the one article linked above stated it was 6M players who played more than 30 days and excluded trials.
Since you have to sub it means 6M accounts have subbed during the games lifetime. (including its first launch, I dunno)
They never publish the number of active subs at a given time, but your estimates seem reasonable. If they really broke the 1M barrier it would be news to shout from the rooftops.
Same for concurrent users online, another figure never shared so your assessment of server pops could well be accurate, no way to tell.
They love to share marketing weasel figures, total accounts ever created, number of characters created but never the two hard numbers I look for. (subs not being relevant for many games though)
Always been impressed by NCSoft who have the stones to publish actual sub figures, even CCP disappointed me when they started masking them, though you can tell how many accounts (not players) are logged in.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As a mythic raider I am currently bored to tears, maybe I have just been playing to long. Nighthold is incredibly boring with its very similar looking boss encounters. The loot other than tier feels so few and far betweeen. Mythic plus have stopped being fun weeks ago when i finished my artifact weapon. The only thing keeping me playing currently are guildmates and friends.
have been there done that , u keep playing to no lose your raid spot , u still are having fun with your friends...but at one point u ask yourself , why? with the time i waste here not having "fun".... i could be doing anything :
watching TV , movie , reading a book , resting ,hanging out with RL friends, playing other games, or just passing more time with my gf/bf-wife/husband/ect ....
log in after dinner (that u eat fast beacause u left work later that) , play for 2h~ , go to bed , next night repeat , if its fun u cant wait to log in....if isnt fun , u sit ther log in while praying for servers to crash or some1 can make it so raid night is cancelled.
is the main issue of mmorpgs nowadays , i played tons before , and its true that u get bored but not that fast...u had always had something to do even if it wasnt for yourself , hell some nights i advance 0 got no gear , no levels or anything , but helped a friend getting a item , or finishing a story mission /quest , and i logged off happy as hell...i miss those times.
Dungeon Fighter Online had 3 million "concurrent" players in China alone. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-24-dungeon-fighter-online-passes-3-million-concurrent-users The stats you posted are total players for a quarter. Not the same thing. Also, who said anything about WoW being the best? You made a claim that most people who played WoW never played any other mmo. I rhetorically asked you for a source, knowing that there was none and you were just making baseless assumptions. You then claimed that since WoW is the most played mmo, that somehow backed your assumption that most WoW players never played anything else. I then pointed out the ridiculousness of that claim. Good strawman though.
In fact I do not say they never played anything else, but none or few games So to claim any game is the best is highly irrational.
Well, you are right, it WoW is not the most played game.
Still I'm not sure what are you arguing about? If you just want to prove I'm wrong about something - that is trolling. If you have a thesis about the topic or my thoughts, I'm waiting to hear it.
I've never known him give up until he gets the last post. Just let him reply to you and be done with it.
Oh look, I have a fan. Have you forgotten that this is a "discussion board"?
Im all up for discusion but you never concede anything. Even when people agree to disagree you have to keep going until you get the last post. A little piece of me dies every time i see you've entered the thread
I like the meme though havent seen that one before.
your fan,
Kunai
There's nothing to concede with ickcin in this thread though. He made a claim with no source or proof. I asked him to provide a source. He replied with a ridiculous statement. So when again I asked him for a source and pointed out the fallaciousness of his statement, he decided to pull a strawman and talk about how there's no way to claim that WoW or any game is the best, which had absolutely nothing to do with his original claim or my response to it.
There's nothing to concede with ickcin in this thread though. He made a claim with no source or proof. I asked him to provide a source. He replied with a ridiculous statement. So when again I asked him for a source and pointed out the fallaciousness of his statement, he decided to pull a strawman and talk about how there's no way to claim that WoW or any game is the best, which had absolutely nothing to do with his original claim or my response to it.
I just read random article , some tidbit about what Blizzard learned from last WoW expansion. And one thought blew my mind.
300 developers actively working on WoW. Even now 12 years after.
So its 16 years of continuous content development with team that is 300 people at its smallest - and its all Blizzard quality people.
LOL , how can anything compete ?
( disclaimer , i dont play WoW , neither did I play it since Vanilla )
Correction - WoW has over 500 people working on it(I wish I could say how I know this and I know these are only words but I know for a fact that it has more than 300). The thing that astounds me is that with that amount of people working on it, you think they could come up with better content than the continued cycle of dungeon>raid>dungeon>raid which begs the question, what are all those people even working on?
It reminds me of Call of Duty. They have something that works so why change it? People continue to gobble up their usual routine of content. Call of Duty has hardly at all, evolved and WoW follows that path. The major thing that has changed is its accessibility. WoW caters to a broader audiance, an audiance that wants thing to come easier, quicker, similar to that of Diablo. To me, WoWs developers have become incredibly lazy. I like the game but their developers have become incredibly lazy over the years.
Again with the strawman, when did I say anything about WoW being the best? I simply asked you to provide a source for your claim that most people who played WoW haven't played any other mmo, or have only played a few. So far you haven't been able to provide a source for that claim.
As I said already it is just a logical assumption. It is based on few obvious things - large player base, limited time, the amount of time you need in general to play a MMORPG.
Yes, I have no degree in any of those subjects, but a great deal of my time is spent assessing risk, which is inherently objective. So I have a great deal of understanding of how to make something objective. Similarly, I'm assuming that someone who is reviewing games all day long is able to provide you with their criteria and benchmarks for each of those criteria. However, they're likely, also, able to provide you with subjective reasons that people might not like it. For instance, Overwatch has fantastic visuals, but if you're more interested in realistic graphics, then it might not be for you.
Ok, so you've managed to define criteria. Have you decided how you'll measure each? What's your standard, for risk/reward ratio, for instance? What is your benchmark? If you feel like this is getting ridiculous, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked any reviewer here to justify their review based on benchmarks, they could do it. That's what being objective is all about, and it sucks. So be subjective all you like, opinions are like assholes, though, everyone has one. If you want to be, actually, objective then you should back your shit up with actual examples and examination.
Any game is based on the risk/reward ratio. It is an essential part from the human behavior in general. In fact you cannot compare anything without benchmarks. If there are not objective criteria your opinion is just a result from the impulse, mood and feelings - absolutely irrelevant.
I hope people are paying attention to this thread if they're ever wondering how they can respond to questions and never really answer anything. You're quite adept at that.
Legion only made WoW recover 10% from WoD subscriptions low. I'm not a fan of WoW but they're clearly upsetting the fanbase and slowly losing them.
Well data shows that number is actually closer to 20% but considering how much of a boost they obviously got at Legions launch its very worrying just how many people seem to have left in the last few months.
Legion only made WoW recover 10% from WoD subscriptions low. I'm not a fan of WoW but they're clearly upsetting the fanbase and slowly losing them.
Well data shows that number is actually closer to 20% but considering how much of a boost they obviously got at Legions launch its very worrying just how many people seem to have left in the last few months.
Whats so worrying. The game is 13 years old. I think any game would be excited to re coup anything from previous expansions, especially for a game this old.
People will find anything to bash or insinuate doom on WoW it s not even funny.
Fact remains, it s still the largest MMO around, by a mile, and will be for years yet I m sure.
Correction - WoW has over 500 people working on it(I wish I could say how I know this and I know these are only words but I know for a fact that it has more than 300).
Don't come up with 'facts' while saying "don't ask me how I know this".
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I just read random article , some tidbit about what Blizzard learned from last WoW expansion. And one thought blew my mind.
300 developers actively working on WoW. Even now 12 years after.
So its 16 years of continuous content development with team that is 300 people at its smallest - and its all Blizzard quality people.
LOL , how can anything compete ?
( disclaimer , i dont play WoW , neither did I play it since Vanilla )
Correction - WoW has over 500 people working on it(I wish I could say how I know this and I know these are only words but I know for a fact that it has more than 300). The thing that astounds me is that with that amount of people working on it, you think they could come up with better content than the continued cycle of dungeon>raid>dungeon>raid which begs the question, what are all those people even working on?
It reminds me of Call of Duty. They have something that works so why change it? People continue to gobble up their usual routine of content. Call of Duty has hardly at all, evolved and WoW follows that path. The major thing that has changed is its accessibility. WoW caters to a broader audiance, an audiance that wants thing to come easier, quicker, similar to that of Diablo. To me, WoWs developers have become incredibly lazy. I like the game but their developers have become incredibly lazy over the years.
As far as actual devs that work on WoW - and nothing else (this excludes cinematics department, marketing staff, and all other "shared" resources) - its not 500 developes.
This.
It's a whole company instead of 100% developers.
I played the Alien Isolation campaign -for the xxxxxth time- and then all the names of the ppl who worked on the title roll by again. Yesterday I finished Mad Max and saw all those names scroll by. Unbelievable how many ppl work on a simple title, when the game looked so boring and was very repetitive plus had a weak storyline. So literally hundreds of ppl working on a title like WoW is not that strange.
And devs -in most companies- just do what they are told. Some executive says the game is going a different direction and tell the devs to code it in. If they don't like it, their place gets filled by someone who does listen to their superior.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Legion only made WoW recover 10% from WoD subscriptions low. I'm not a fan of WoW but they're clearly upsetting the fanbase and slowly losing them.
Well data shows that number is actually closer to 20% but considering how much of a boost they obviously got at Legions launch its very worrying just how many people seem to have left in the last few months.
Whats so worrying. The game is 13 years old. I think any game would be excited to re coup anything from previous expansions, especially for a game this old.
People will find anything to bash or insinuate doom on WoW it s not even funny.
Fact remains, it s still the largest MMO around, by a mile, and will be for years yet I m sure.
Im not really bashing WoW here though. Im pointing out that player activity numbers have dropped considerably in the last couple of months. The age of the game is irrelevant in this case. Player activity is up 20% compared to the same time period last year when WoD was in the middle of the biggest content drought in the games history. Thats not really something to brag about when Legion was only launched a few months ago and the latest patch was what?..last month? few weeks ago?
Whole idea of this forum is to discuss MMO's. Good and bad points. Not everyone is going to share your opinion on a game.
Are you claiming that player activity numbers in January were higher than Decembers? Or just talking about a spike in activity during the month of January? The only source of player activity im aware of is wow census, as Blizzard hardly ever post numbers. But if you have a different data source then please share with us?
You stated your "data" showed a drop in the last couple months. I was just stating numbers went up in January.
Thanks for the recap. But you still havent answered anything i asked or provided a source for your statement. My source was wow census.
Then you better look at your source again cause Jan '17 is higher than Dec '16.
So you're talking about a spike in the month of January, that was probably a result of the new content patch that came out that week. That has nothing to do with my statement that activity numbers have been dropping since Legion and that they are almost back to WoD drought levels.
Comments
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
A little piece of me dies every time i see you've entered the thread
I like the meme though
your fan,
Kunai
Yes, I have no degree in any of those subjects, but a great deal of my time is spent assessing risk, which is inherently objective. So I have a great deal of understanding of how to make something objective. Similarly, I'm assuming that someone who is reviewing games all day long is able to provide you with their criteria and benchmarks for each of those criteria. However, they're likely, also, able to provide you with subjective reasons that people might not like it. For instance, Overwatch has fantastic visuals, but if you're more interested in realistic graphics, then it might not be for you.
Ok, so you've managed to define criteria. Have you decided how you'll measure each? What's your standard, for risk/reward ratio, for instance? What is your benchmark? If you feel like this is getting ridiculous, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked any reviewer here to justify their review based on benchmarks, they could do it. That's what being objective is all about, and it sucks. So be subjective all you like, opinions are like assholes, though, everyone has one. If you want to be, actually, objective then you should back your shit up with actual examples and examination.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Since you have to sub it means 6M accounts have subbed during the games lifetime. (including its first launch, I dunno)
They never publish the number of active subs at a given time, but your estimates seem reasonable. If they really broke the 1M barrier it would be news to shout from the rooftops.
Same for concurrent users online, another figure never shared so your assessment of server pops could well be accurate, no way to tell.
They love to share marketing weasel figures, total accounts ever created, number of characters created but never the two hard numbers I look for. (subs not being relevant for many games though)
Always been impressed by NCSoft who have the stones to publish actual sub figures, even CCP disappointed me when they started masking them, though you can tell how many accounts (not players) are logged in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
watching TV , movie , reading a book , resting ,hanging out with RL friends, playing other games, or just passing more time with my gf/bf-wife/husband/ect ....
log in after dinner (that u eat fast beacause u left work later that) , play for 2h~ , go to bed , next night repeat , if its fun u cant wait to log in....if isnt fun , u sit ther log in while praying for servers to crash or some1 can make it so raid night is cancelled.
is the main issue of mmorpgs nowadays , i played tons before , and its true that u get bored but not that fast...u had always had something to do even if it wasnt for yourself , hell some nights i advance 0 got no gear , no levels or anything , but helped a friend getting a item , or finishing a story mission /quest , and i logged off
As for your claim that I keep going until I get the last post, perhaps you forgot one of our other discussions where you got the last post and then I "let it go" http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/460777/world-first-mythic-guldan-kill-exorsus-wins-the-race-world-of-warcraft-mmorpg-com/p4
Correction - WoW has over 500 people working on it(I wish I could say how I know this and I know these are only words but I know for a fact that it has more than 300). The thing that astounds me is that with that amount of people working on it, you think they could come up with better content than the continued cycle of dungeon>raid>dungeon>raid which begs the question, what are all those people even working on?
It reminds me of Call of Duty. They have something that works so why change it? People continue to gobble up their usual routine of content. Call of Duty has hardly at all, evolved and WoW follows that path. The major thing that has changed is its accessibility. WoW caters to a broader audiance, an audiance that wants thing to come easier, quicker, similar to that of Diablo. To me, WoWs developers have become incredibly lazy. I like the game but their developers have become incredibly lazy over the years.
I hope people are paying attention to this thread if they're ever wondering how they can respond to questions and never really answer anything. You're quite adept at that.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Whats so worrying. The game is 13 years old. I think any game would be excited to re coup anything from previous expansions, especially for a game this old.
People will find anything to bash or insinuate doom on WoW it s not even funny.
Fact remains, it s still the largest MMO around, by a mile, and will be for years yet I m sure.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It's a whole company instead of 100% developers.
I played the Alien Isolation campaign -for the xxxxxth time- and then all the names of the ppl who worked on the title roll by again.
Yesterday I finished Mad Max and saw all those names scroll by.
Unbelievable how many ppl work on a simple title, when the game looked so boring and was very repetitive plus had a weak storyline.
So literally hundreds of ppl working on a title like WoW is not that strange.
And devs -in most companies- just do what they are told.
Some executive says the game is going a different direction and tell the devs to code it in. If they don't like it, their place gets filled by someone who does listen to their superior.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Im pointing out that player activity numbers have dropped considerably in the last couple of months.
The age of the game is irrelevant in this case.
Player activity is up 20% compared to the same time period last year when WoD was in the middle of the biggest content drought in the games history. Thats not really something to brag about when Legion was only launched a few months ago and the latest patch was what?..last month? few weeks ago?
Whole idea of this forum is to discuss MMO's. Good and bad points. Not everyone is going to share your opinion on a game.
But if you have a different data source then please share with us?
But you still havent answered anything i asked or provided a source for your statement.
My source was wow census.
Then you better look at your source again cause Jan '17 is higher than Dec '16.