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Why mmos suck
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
Several reasons, I'll only talk about the largest.
MMO's need to be Large Worlds like they are suppose to be. SO LARGE as to give content for everyone:
-solo people
-group people
-PvP people
We have a divided community.....Solo player and grouping !
MMO's are to be group play yet half like to play solo. I'll be honest, I'm a group player, I get mad when players talk about solo. But I'll let you in on a little secret, At times I'm shy and lazy, during those times I could TOTALLY RELATE to the solo players, especially the shy part.
Shy:
I don't feel like sitting on the edge of my seat for hours,trying to please everyone.
I'm afraid of screwing up, and the group pays the price.
I had a hard day at work and I want to be alone.
I don't understand the advertised content and don't like to be embarrassed ( this is big ).
I don't feel like knocking myself out getting a group for something I really don't understand myself.
People let you down.
People are often rude, and obnoxious.
Please prove me wrong. This is what's going on in the mind of a solo player. With me advertising myself as a total community player, I have to admit I like solo 50% of the time for the above reasons !!!!
........................................................................................................................
Sooooo, what's the fix to balance ?
Lack of innovation !....... Attempts have been made but all fall short.
- Easy doesn't work, mmos get boring very fast !
- Auto grouping doesn't work, mmos get boring fast
- Cross realm doesn't work, it's cold and lonely.
Well, first you need a very large game, this is something that is lost but that's a different subject. You need an mmo so large their is LOTS TO DO FOR EVERYONE.
Yes, Vanilla World of Warcraft, EverQuest 2, Final Fantasy 11 were that game......Hated them ?......How come we don't have even more variations of the same thing.
It's 2017, we should be way beyond all the flaws of grouping, yet we regressed into cheapness and free-to-play. Innovation to bring players together had stopped.
We need developers to look at the balance of comfortable, natural mmo game play, much like WoW but only better. I guess I would like to use the word soft balance. Not so hard that the boss kicks the group off a cliff and calls it hard. Or so easy the boss gets two shotted and call it easy. But a perfect balance that only talented developers can make..........It is 2017 right ?
MMO's need to be Large Worlds like they are suppose to be. SO LARGE as to give content for everyone:
-solo people
-group people
-PvP people
We have a divided community.....Solo player and grouping !
MMO's are to be group play yet half like to play solo. I'll be honest, I'm a group player, I get mad when players talk about solo. But I'll let you in on a little secret, At times I'm shy and lazy, during those times I could TOTALLY RELATE to the solo players, especially the shy part.
Shy:
I don't feel like sitting on the edge of my seat for hours,trying to please everyone.
I'm afraid of screwing up, and the group pays the price.
I had a hard day at work and I want to be alone.
I don't understand the advertised content and don't like to be embarrassed ( this is big ).
I don't feel like knocking myself out getting a group for something I really don't understand myself.
People let you down.
People are often rude, and obnoxious.
Please prove me wrong. This is what's going on in the mind of a solo player. With me advertising myself as a total community player, I have to admit I like solo 50% of the time for the above reasons !!!!
........................................................................................................................
Sooooo, what's the fix to balance ?
Lack of innovation !....... Attempts have been made but all fall short.
- Easy doesn't work, mmos get boring very fast !
- Auto grouping doesn't work, mmos get boring fast
- Cross realm doesn't work, it's cold and lonely.
Well, first you need a very large game, this is something that is lost but that's a different subject. You need an mmo so large their is LOTS TO DO FOR EVERYONE.
Yes, Vanilla World of Warcraft, EverQuest 2, Final Fantasy 11 were that game......Hated them ?......How come we don't have even more variations of the same thing.
It's 2017, we should be way beyond all the flaws of grouping, yet we regressed into cheapness and free-to-play. Innovation to bring players together had stopped.
We need developers to look at the balance of comfortable, natural mmo game play, much like WoW but only better. I guess I would like to use the word soft balance. Not so hard that the boss kicks the group off a cliff and calls it hard. Or so easy the boss gets two shotted and call it easy. But a perfect balance that only talented developers can make..........It is 2017 right ?
Post edited by delete5230 on
Comments
But reason I am not bothered with group content is that group content for the most part does not reward anything at all that Id actually like. And if in rare cases it does, its at a difficulty that I have no skill, nor desire to try and force myself into.
This whole idea that everybody has a desire to gain stats and stats and more stats, its so mindnumbingly boring.
And when/if a vanity item of certain interest might be added into raiding or dungeon content, its imprisoned in RNG, so you might be forced to do the same boring raid and instance 100 times. Which means when you finally get your item, you have moved focus and stopped caring long ago about the item.
The above does luckily not apply to all games, but it really does apply to a lot.
Apart from that, yeah all your above reasons applies to me, as far as wanting to go solo these days.
Having raided everything for over a decade, eventually it simply just stopped being appealing.
Secondly age differences.
It simply stops being cute and funny to hang around players that are young enough to be your children and soon the average age group is so young compared to yourself, that they could in theory be your grandchildren.
The things people say, the things people do, all these things all these cute children and teenagers and twenty somethings think is funny, its such an old record, that eventually (which is not their fault) people simply just turns into repeated content themselves.
But apart from that I enjoy group content, as long as its more outside world orientated, rather than being stuck in some godly boring dungeon or raid.
All that said, I really believe that developers should start focusing less on how to make soloers more engaged in group content.
One day it would be nice if they would just accept, that people are simply just different and stop trying to lure, beg, manipulate people into a different behavior, that they will not miraculously adapt to.
Sure its fine to leave the door open for people who just needs encouragement to take the first step, but for those of us, who have been there, done that and are finished with grouping content at large, just stop trying to force a playstyle on us that really wont benefit anybody for us to participate in.
A pissed off soloer forced into group content, makes a lousy angry companion to hang out with anyway.
Fantastic explanation, well worded, and other things I haven't thought of... great !
Wouldn't be nice to have more larger games where a every type of player can co-exist more naturally, instead of small cramped worlds........Remember Vanilla WOW ?....Like the game or not it was large and never obnoxious, things for players to do un-scripted !
These days I only group with friend or guildmates. While playing a highly desireable group friendly class/ spec on my DAOC shard I routinely (and politely) decline invites multiple times daily.
While it would usually be more efficient, truth is I need a few allowances such as I am totally lost in dungeons and rely on my friends to be tolerant and come find me or lead me out.
Pugs tend to expect you to have full understanding of your role, class, dungeon, studied videos on the fight for hours and worst of all, not suck at any it. Go figure.
So best for all normally if I steer clear of PUGs, though I will say I have an easier time of it in DAOC so probably will loosen up a bit more while leveling my 2nd character.
BTW, I'm pretty much enjoying "MMOS" right now, so can't agree they suck.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Ok. I get it. So because a few of those suck, ALL of them suck according to you.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
We are divided. Old school gamers vs New school gamers.
Those who play mmo for 10y or less are new school
Those who play mmo for 15-20+ years are old school.
Old school gamers like myself who played AC/UO, years of DAOC and some FFXI are now 35+ or even 40+. We have a career, bills to pay, family, a wife with an aggro range harder than any boss you've encountered, a kid or more who need/neds our/my attention, a business or not, other passions or not and other things...
New school gamers are where we were 10-15-20y ago. Young, students or not, with the time we had back in the days ready to put tons of time. They are pro at trollin, ready to grind thousands of hours over a year, etc.
There are games and games. There are mmos and mmos. Some play mmos for fun, some play for the journey and some for end game.
The trend is to rush end game and quit the game after few months. Max 3 in a game...man you must be sick if u are new school game. They are hasty to find another game and compete like pros vs those who have a slow start and ready to quit when they have no challenge.
But there are the others who enjoy the journey and take the game slower.
MMOS dont suck. We, the customer suck. We suck big time. Early Acces games are alive because we buy em. P2W are alive because we feed them. We are the ones who designed the current trend. The companies dont suck, we suck
But wait there is more. If you DONT buy games in day 1 and you stop and take a look at how the game is you will be surprised...there are games out there that dont suck.
FFXIV - Best PvE game with best dungeons, trials, whatever. Its a masterpiece.
ESO: For Elder Scrolls lovers, its an amazing game.
GW2: Another very good game...
EvE: If you like the genre.
And there might be other games out there
And here is my favourite...
Black Desert Online.
I play the game not like everybody else. I play the game for the business management type. I like my brain to be active all the time and i like the business type of the game. You can create up to 10-13 characters in the game. The map is insane. Water and Land, desert and forest, different type of weathers, the area is huge.
Here is what i love about the game.
Gathering, Processing materials, Cooking, Alchemy, Training horses, Fishing, Hunting animals, Trading, Farming and now Sailing. This are all life skills.
You hire workers, you feed them beer to work and from time to time to put them on test to increase their rank. There are different type of workers. There are places where your workers chop tree, mine minerals, gather herbs or craft items for you. This is a very complex system.
beside that you have world bosses, some caves, tons of pve (grind if u want high lvl 59 is achievable in x2 xp channels for new players), horse breeding, pet breeding (LOL), housing and tons of other stuff.
Each character can be assigned to a profession so you wont have to travel to do what u want to do.
Its the only game (afaik) where you cant do all the things that are in game...and its amazing. Its the only game where you can be competitive while not playing. The game has afk fishing bot where you get a decent amount of cash while you sleep. There are daily reward...and i have to stop now, i dont want to look like a fanboy.
There is 1 game that i want to try Camelot Unchaine. Thats it.
Oh, we can talk about Survival Games, like Ark, Rust, Conan Exiles...small mmos with a different level of politics. You go to sleep? Bam, your base is gone
TL:DR No, mmos dont suck. Games are designed for us. We suck. Big big time by buying all kind of crap games because of hype.
Out.
This BDO map. Every Node with 1-3 marker can be ocuppied after war.
Apart from grinding reps, grinding gold/ earning the gold for your mounts and using your gathering professions to earn gold for repairs, and for some the massive amount of questing, there was not really much solo content at all.
But back then it was enough, it was more fun than DaoC and EQ, that was just grinding games with a lot of annoyances in comparison to WoW.
That said I was a raider in vanilla also and did not have much time on my hands back then, so I was busy.
Being a raider gives most games, with that kind of endgame, a sense of having a path and direction, which the solo content in MMORPGs seems to keep struggling to provide.
It is very unfortunate, cause when people stop raiding, like I eventually did, its pretty much game over.
Things that does fit soloplayers well though, at least imo, are things like outdoor boss raids, where people dont have to be grouped as such, just tagging mobs is enough to be a participant. LFR can also work, but indoor raiding bores me, whereas I greatly enjoy outdoor big scaled 40 man or bigger PvPareas / bgs.
When these are available in games, I find my niche.
In that sense a lot of MMORPGs are not bad. I just think its far harder for developers to come up with longterm enjoyable solocontent, that goes well hand in hand with grouping content, without one style being intrusive to the other.
And even harder for developers who thinks that the highlight is to fight and destroy, rather than create and maintain.
the problem is they offer character customization which is what I want out of every game, but only some games do it right, which usually are mmos. I don't want to group or play with people I don't know. If only there was more 2 player games with the level of customization of the best mmos. I have played every co-op game on steam, origin, uplay, gog etc so none of those games interest me.
I usually just exploit. A friend of mine is a professional hacker so getting to solo raid dungeons to get some cosmetic item instead of being forced to group with people I don't care about is pretty easy in every mmo I try. Even works great in games like Path of Exile. And yes I do in the game my name is from. I actually worked for said game doing voice acting. Devs are terribly greedy lying people.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Think people of Wal-Mart. These are the people that we have to group with now.
What you expect from FFA PVP game that have Arena reward more than open world PVP and you PK people for fun yet they can't kill you back ?
Or a game that make you wonder why you want to continuous to play when you level max and full gears
And MMORPG that punish you for group with other ?
Then people wonder why it suck lol .
Many ironic things in MMORPG that make me wonder if those developers brain's small as a nut .
That way you can give content for everyone.
- Solo content
- Group content
- PvP content
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Take WoW's cross server tech and multi player mob tagging, you literally just phase in and out of quests areas just blasting everything in site a long with hundreds of others not having to compete for mobs, zero player communication is needed now in the open world.
At least in the past you would try to group up with others in those quest areas so you didn't have to compete with each other, often times those people made it to your friends list and stayed on there for years.
People go to college to learn to become an engineer. They are given textbooks to teach them the concepts of engineering. The goal is to be able to 'apply' that knowledge to new problems, not merely solve the problems given to them in the book. A good engineer can solve problems that are not found in a book. Those that are incapable of applying that knowledge never go on to do great things because they can't solve problems that don't already have answers.
Game design, hell anything in life, follows the same rule. You want innovation? You have to stop doing things the same way that has been done before. MMOs were born out of MUDS. Some genius had the idea that a simple text based game could become a living breathing world. There was no written path to that objective... they came to a solution all on their own. That was true innovation as there was no written answer to the problem. What we have now is a bunch of developers who are happy just creating more of the same. And why shouldn't they? It's easier. True change isn't easy.
All MMOs have done in the past 10 years is polished what has already been done. Nobody has come up with anything new because they keep returning to the book for ideas... if it's in a book, it's been done before.
I bet all those developers would love to explore different ways to make mmo's. But who is going to fund it? Who is going to risk millions upon millions on an idea that "may" work for a very finicky audience who may or may not stay around?
So yeah, players scream "we want something different" and that's great but they aren't footing the bill, they aren't risking their employment on an idea. It's far more easy for them to say "nope, next!".
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Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Any innovation that is made is met with criticism about how it's breaking the game and why would they change what wasn't broken, and every game that attempts to stay true to old-time mechanics is met with criticism about how nothing ever changes and nobody innovates.
Crazkanuk
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The reason is rather simple,too many devs that cannot afford to make a quality mmo are trying to simply join the market with their sub par game and hope to make some money.
Most devs do not have the resources to make a triple A game and it is as simple as that.
Helping to fund a better game is also NOT the answer because a developer has to start somewhere and if they do not know exactly how much money they will have to work with,they end up building a super crap low budget game.
Like you cannot start a KS'r and think "ok we should be able to get 300 million,let; aim big".Nope they figure,we MIGHT get a few hundred thousand,so lets aim for that low budget build.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I cant imagine the amazing games that the AAA companies could create if they modeled their creative approach more on these independents.
Case in point, My Summer Car with a 3 million dollar budget? holz mc blaz that would be awesome
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Now, I would like to add one more reason to solo. Hectic Schedule, parents deal with this a lot, you may no have the time to invest in a group dungeon, or a raid, or any long drawn out content, so you solo, thus, in case you need to get up and leave the game, you are not letting anyone else down in the process.