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Roleplaying (RPG) first, then MMO (massive players)

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Comments

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,438
    Was the DM working against the player? In competition with them to kill them? Or did they just tell the story and set the scenarios.
    Why do you speak in past tense as if PnP RPGs didn't exist anymore?

    DM (dungeon master) is kind of a judge who sets the world up for players to interact and resolves the outcomes of the actions his players are making. In most RPG rulebooks this is made clear on the very first pages of the rules - DM doesn't play against the players. 
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    Again, I completely disagree. 

    The only thing I would say is that RPGs have existed for far longer in the single-player domain than they have in the multiplayer domain and so the concepts of roleplaying in a single player environment (pve) are more developed than roleplaying in a multiplayer environment. Sandboxes push the RPG part of a multiplayer game, but have never gotten the love / budget to take their rough concepts and make them mainstream. 


    Actually, if we look at what gave birth to MMORPGs, MUDs, they were very much multi-user(Multi-User Dungeon), not single player. If we go further back to what essentially gave birth to MUDs, Pen and Paper games(D&D, GURPS), again, RPGs were rooted in multiplayer game play, not single player game play. So the notion that RPGs have existed far longer as single player games is pretty much false on every front.

    People get hung up on expected features because the games that gave birth to MMORPGs, MUDs and Pen and Paper, respectively, had those features; levels, gear, dungeons, loot, classes, etc.

    Sorry, I should have been more explicit. When I said RPGs have existed far longer in the single player domain, I was talking about RPG computer games. 

    The important thing here (as related to mechanics within RPGs) is the amount of control there is over the environment you are in. 

    With pen and paper games, even though they are multiplayer, all the players start at the same time, and finish at the same time, progress at the same time, explore the same game world etc (generalising here....im sure there are exceptions). This control and synchronisation between players is what allows quests and levels to function properly - both from a gameplay point of view but from a storytelling point of view too. The same is true for single player games - everything is 100% synced to what you, the player, are doing, allowing those typical mechanics to work and make sense. 


    That is not true in a proper multiplayer game. If I pick up a quest to kill a boss, go kill him, then 1 hour later you can pick up the same quest and kill him, that is immersion breaking. That is not good story telling. You end up living in two different virtual worlds: the single player world where the quests are only relevant to you, then the multiplayer world where you interact with other people. 

    Lets also apply this thinking to levels, power gaps etc. In pen and paper game, sure, it's multiplayer, but as you are all leveling together at the same time in a tightly controlled environment, you don't develop power gaps or leave people behind. The same is not true in an MMO. People progress at different rates and at different times, yet the mechanics we have taken from single player games (levels, gear, classes) then end up getting in the way of being multiplayer. 



    I admit, I don't really know much about the MUD days, I wasn't into them, but the early days of the MMO were an era of experimentation. Those developers seemed to have a handle on why single-player mechanics wouldn't work, yet didn't necessarily know what would work. There was a lot of experimentation with mechanics, resulting in some really great ideas as well as some terrible ones. Sadly, WoW ended that era of experimentation but I get the feeling it is coming back. There is still too much attachment to typical mechanics from single player RPGs, but all we need is one good MMO to show us a valid alternative. 
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    deniter said: ki
    Was the DM working against the player? In competition with them to kill them? Or did they just tell the story and set the scenarios.
    Why do you speak in past tense as if PnP RPGs didn't exist anymore?

    DM (dungeon master) is kind of a judge who sets the world up for players to interact and resolves the outcomes of the actions his players are making. In most RPG rulebooks this is made clear on the very first pages of the rules - DM doesn't play against the players. 
    Then it isn't PvP right.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
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