Some of the reasons for PvE strike me as odd, for example...
"I joined the Peace Corps because I hate what the Military does" or "I'm a Vegetarian because I heard how violent meat eaters are"
Can't you be a Vegetarian because of health reasons? Can't you PvE because you enjoy fighting NPC's? I'm pretty sure if you don't normally play PvP games you probably aren't doing "PvP" correctly. For example, if you find yourself always getting killed by higher level characters or you're always attacking players much lower than yourself... you are not PvPing correctly.
If the game allows it, then it is a design flaw. Not the players fault.
If it can happen it will happen - Murphy's Law
How can it not be the players fault if they are the cause?
Some of the reasons for PvE strike me as odd, for example...
"I joined the Peace Corps because I hate what the Military does" or "I'm a Vegetarian because I heard how violent meat eaters are"
Can't you be a Vegetarian because of health reasons? Can't you PvE because you enjoy fighting NPC's? I'm pretty sure if you don't normally play PvP games you probably aren't doing "PvP" correctly. For example, if you find yourself always getting killed by higher level characters or you're always attacking players much lower than yourself... you are not PvPing correctly.
They may not be PvPing correctly but far too many do attack people, at random, that are much lower than themselves, they also attack in overwhelming numbers.
This is why PvE players do not want them in the same game. PvP players happily killing each other is not the issue.
Yes, you can be attacked at random at anytime in PvP games, that's kind of the whole point. You don't have to worry about dying in PvE MMO's because it's a controlled environment, you know whats going to happen. In PvP MMO's it's not a question if you're going to be killed by another player, it's when. I think if some players understood this they would have much better time than trying to do the whole "going to the Waterpark and not get wet" approach. It's your job to controlmitigate encounters with groups of players and high level characters looking for a easy fight. No true PvPer would take pride in rolling or killing a lower character.
What you probably encountered was a PvE player would learned how to excel in a PvP game but didn't learn the art of PvP... thus why he attacks lower level characters. Killing easy lower level things is a PvE trait
So I see only PvE players who play PvP games attack lower level players. Wonderful I guess that is why I avoid PvP at all costs since playing with people like that is no fun.
No true PvPer would take pride in rolling or killing a lower character.
What you probably encountered was a PvE player would learned how to excel in a PvP game but didn't learn the art of PvP... thus why he attacks lower level characters. Killing easy lower level things is a PvE trait
I really, really, really wish I could believe this was written in parody.
If nothing else, a better example of the No true Scotsmanfallacy one could not hope to find.
of the two i prefer pvp by a large margin. i don't mind even the worst pve if it leads to good pvp. i played lineage 2 for a very long time for this very specific reason : the pve was an abomination for the most part but the pvp made up for it tenfold. surprisingly some games have made me like pve despite terrible pvp : city of heroes/vilain was a prime exemple. pvp in that game was abysmal to say the least but for some weird reason i really loved the pve in that game. and then you have black desert online which i really like the pve is grindy like lineage 2 (past lvl 56) and the pvp is spastic and i don't like it that much (probably because i'm not geared enough to enjoy it) but it's been my mmo fix since january and there is no sign of me getting bored of it for now.
that weird dichotomy is why i answered pvx (despite loving pvp more than pve) and not pvp.
No true PvPer would take pride in rolling or killing a lower character.
What you probably encountered was a PvE player would learned how to excel in a PvP game but didn't learn the art of PvP... thus why he attacks lower level characters. Killing easy lower level things is a PvE trait
I really, really, really wish I could believe this was written in parody.
If nothing else, a better example of the No true Scotsmanfallacy one could not hope to find.
Awww, don't give me that...
You know damn well you could have if you wanted to. Seeing how the above statement was separated from my initial argument and was even followed by an emoji...
Dark Fall, for example although I am not sure which one to play and currently not playing is and was a great game, but currently only has European servers for new Dawn with high pings so I wont be playing it at least New Dawn for now. (Great PVP Love It.)
Arche Age, had fun PVP, But Trion Worlds ruined Arche Age and the reason I quit was after they added Hero Systems which sometimes brought Dictators, Same Faction Griefing and Trolling, It was East VS West, which was again Great game play before they ruined it. On top of this change they also put in the ability to instantly WAR other guilds and grief them in safe zones to steal packs, rather than a Cool-down timer of at least 1 hour unless both parties agree to have the fight then. This changed killed the game, they could have added different servers different rule-sets.
And you are looking at someone who spent $300 and UP every single month in Arche Age.
Planet Side 2, Has 3 Factions, Why not 4? Because the 3rd one creates constant fighting and conflict / pvp.
In the end I like both, But it depends how companies do it, if they design them to be good, open world PVP its great, but if they do stupid things like the developers did with Arche Age they ruin it.
PVP is a fun part of games, but many can't get PVP done correctly.
Some of the reasons for PvE strike me as odd, for example...
"I joined the Peace Corps because I hate what the Military does" or "I'm a Vegetarian because I heard how violent meat eaters are"
Can't you be a Vegetarian because of health reasons? Can't you PvE because you enjoy fighting NPC's? I'm pretty sure if you don't normally play PvP games you probably aren't doing "PvP" correctly. For example, if you find yourself always getting killed by higher level characters or you're always attacking players much lower than yourself... you are not PvPing correctly.
The numbers are always like this, which is still baffling why so many new mmo's are PvP first focused and rarely are there open world, non theme park PvE focused mmo's. Almost every sandpark mmo over the last ten years has a high, if not first priority, on PvP
This is because successful PvP is almost like a silver bullet for the games industry. If you can design and implement a strong PvP system, chances are your game is going to have high retention rates, good longevity, better reviews and will make more money. This is the way it works in almost every games genre: good pvp = more money.
So far, no game developer has achieved this within the MMO market. Games like DAoC and EvE have shown us the good retention rates, but no MMO ever reached critical success (i.e. big money) by focusing on PvP.
The theory behind it is very simple. PvP is the ultimate sandbox feature - every fight is different, therefore it takes longer for the average gamer to get bored of the game. If you then start building more sandbox features to support the pvp (like player economies, player cities, guilds, factions etc), the game could run for years without needing much input at all from the devs.
The reason it has never worked in the MMO genre is also quite simple: the RPG part. Sadly, most MMOs have adopted the standard set of features from single player / coop RPGs, rather than converting those features for a massively multiplayer environment. Things like levels and gear immediately unbalance pvp which sucks the fun out of it for the vast majority of people. When you are already imbalanced due to player skill and player numbers, getting further unbalanced by power gaps isn't good.
Both Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are taking interesting approaches the the lack of balance in mmo pvp. Crowfall is opting for regular resets - their pvp campaigns will run for a short amount of time, after which it'll change to something new. So, in theory, the balance will get reset every couple of months so should never get too bad. CU is opting for horizontal progression, so it's baked into the game that you can't overpower others simply due to the amount of time spent in game. Both are indie titles so neither will see big success, but hopefully they'll be laying the groundwork for the next generation of AAA MMORPGs.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Some of the reasons for PvE strike me as odd, for example...
"I joined the Peace Corps because I hate what the Military does" or "I'm a Vegetarian because I heard how violent meat eaters are"
Can't you be a Vegetarian because of health reasons? Can't you PvE because you enjoy fighting NPC's? I'm pretty sure if you don't normally play PvP games you probably aren't doing "PvP" correctly. For example, if you find yourself always getting killed by higher level characters or you're always attacking players much lower than yourself... you are not PvPing correctly.
Lol, mad because PVP isn't in the lead.
Yes, you are so right.
I'm so angry that the smallest demographic of the MMO genre isn't leading a random poll on a website that obviously captures the whole MMO player base in its entirety.
or
You could actually read my post and try to understand what message i'm trying to convey instead of drawing your own conclusions.
The idea of pvp if not forced onto anyone else is fine but doesn't solve the reason why iu despise both in the same game.
I can simply look at what i consider the best pvp games i have ever played,i would not remain in those games one day if all of a sudden we have leveling or ++ stats.Just like ANY competition or sport i have ever done,i play on the grounds of 100% total equality,fair rules etc etc.The ONLY thing i want in pvp is the proper tools to give me the best experience and my wits versus your wits with a touch of twitch aiming.
For PVE i want NONE of that,instead i want character building/team work,quests,harvesting,crafting and i do not want any twitch combat at all.I also do not need thje same tools as pvp,i want good looking maps instead of maps designed for pvp,i want nice looking armor/weapons /items/housing,i don't care about any of that in a pvp game.
So i think i made it quite clear as to why there is no way pvp and pvp can coincide in any game i want to play.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
PvE then at endgame go the PvP route as I don't really raid or anything like that anymore these days. Unless there is an achievement list to tick off then I do that.
I'l usually exhaust almost all PvE content first but I do appreciate having options so I prefer a game to have decent PvP as well. It's usually an afterthought though.. something I do to break the pace. If there's lots of PvP cosmetics though, like in Rift or WoW, I'll get more involved with it. I've done a lot of sPvP in GW2 as well because the reward tracks are an excellent incentive. I guess that's what I look for in PvP, meaningful rewards.. cosmetic or otherwise.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
IMHO, once again I see no viable reason for PVP in MMOs. It IS NOT PVP. It is who ganks first , or more importantly...who BUYS the best gear. THIS IS NOT PVP. Play a FPS where everyone has the same chance. THAT is TRULY PVP!
@jmcdermottuk I agree with you there, I used to love FPS games but now most of my favorite ones they rarely release new content (i.e. guns, powerups, ect.) for free players it's only ever for those who pay. On top of that I got sick of the hackers and the fact they were hardly punished for it, they would just make a new account and do it again.
I also prefer PvE because I've had some bad experiences with PvP where the higher level players would pick on the lower level ones just to be jerks "Oh, you're trying to leave the safezone to complete a quest? I DON'T THINK SO!!!" *one hit kills*
Love PvE but will try PvP and have enjoyed it in some games.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Definitely both. Some games are better just as pve, some just as pvp and some are good at both. If I can get into a game that has both and people are able to pve without too much interference (Eve is a good example) then I'm all for it.
Comments
How can it not be the players fault if they are the cause?
If nothing else, a better example of the No true Scotsman fallacy one could not hope to find.
i don't mind even the worst pve if it leads to good pvp. i played lineage 2 for a very long time for this very specific reason : the pve was an abomination for the most part but the pvp made up for it tenfold.
surprisingly some games have made me like pve despite terrible pvp : city of heroes/vilain was a prime exemple. pvp in that game was abysmal to say the least but for some weird reason i really loved the pve in that game.
and then you have black desert online which i really like
that weird dichotomy is why i answered pvx (despite loving pvp more than pve) and not pvp.
You know damn well you could have if you wanted to. Seeing how the above statement was separated from my initial argument and was even followed by an emoji...
Dark Fall, for example although I am not sure which one to play and currently not playing is and was a great game, but currently only has European servers for new Dawn with high pings so I wont be playing it at least New Dawn for now. (Great PVP Love It.)
Arche Age, had fun PVP, But Trion Worlds ruined Arche Age and the reason I quit was after they added Hero Systems which sometimes brought Dictators, Same Faction Griefing and Trolling, It was East VS West, which was again Great game play before they ruined it. On top of this change they also put in the ability to instantly WAR other guilds and grief them in safe zones to steal packs, rather than a Cool-down timer of at least 1 hour unless both parties agree to have the fight then. This changed killed the game, they could have added different servers different rule-sets.
And you are looking at someone who spent $300 and UP every single month in Arche Age.
Planet Side 2, Has 3 Factions, Why not 4? Because the 3rd one creates constant fighting and conflict / pvp.
In the end I like both, But it depends how companies do it, if they design them to be good, open world PVP its great, but if they do stupid things like the developers did with Arche Age they ruin it.
PVP is a fun part of games, but many can't get PVP done correctly.
Lol, mad because PVP isn't in the lead.
So far, no game developer has achieved this within the MMO market. Games like DAoC and EvE have shown us the good retention rates, but no MMO ever reached critical success (i.e. big money) by focusing on PvP.
The theory behind it is very simple. PvP is the ultimate sandbox feature - every fight is different, therefore it takes longer for the average gamer to get bored of the game. If you then start building more sandbox features to support the pvp (like player economies, player cities, guilds, factions etc), the game could run for years without needing much input at all from the devs.
The reason it has never worked in the MMO genre is also quite simple: the RPG part. Sadly, most MMOs have adopted the standard set of features from single player / coop RPGs, rather than converting those features for a massively multiplayer environment. Things like levels and gear immediately unbalance pvp which sucks the fun out of it for the vast majority of people. When you are already imbalanced due to player skill and player numbers, getting further unbalanced by power gaps isn't good.
Both Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are taking interesting approaches the the lack of balance in mmo pvp. Crowfall is opting for regular resets - their pvp campaigns will run for a short amount of time, after which it'll change to something new. So, in theory, the balance will get reset every couple of months so should never get too bad. CU is opting for horizontal progression, so it's baked into the game that you can't overpower others simply due to the amount of time spent in game. Both are indie titles so neither will see big success, but hopefully they'll be laying the groundwork for the next generation of AAA MMORPGs.
I'm so angry that the smallest demographic of the MMO genre isn't leading a random poll on a website that obviously captures the whole MMO player base in its entirety.
or
You could actually read my post and try to understand what message i'm trying to convey instead of drawing your own conclusions.
The idea of pvp if not forced onto anyone else is fine but doesn't solve the reason why iu despise both in the same game.
I can simply look at what i consider the best pvp games i have ever played,i would not remain in those games one day if all of a sudden we have leveling or ++ stats.Just like ANY competition or sport i have ever done,i play on the grounds of 100% total equality,fair rules etc etc.The ONLY thing i want in pvp is the proper tools to give me the best experience and my wits versus your wits with a touch of twitch aiming.
For PVE i want NONE of that,instead i want character building/team work,quests,harvesting,crafting and i do not want any twitch combat at all.I also do not need thje same tools as pvp,i want good looking maps instead of maps designed for pvp,i want nice looking armor/weapons /items/housing,i don't care about any of that in a pvp game.
So i think i made it quite clear as to why there is no way pvp and pvp can coincide in any game i want to play.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Playing the game of life taking it one step at a time
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I also prefer PvE because I've had some bad experiences with PvP where the higher level players would pick on the lower level ones just to be jerks "Oh, you're trying to leave the safezone to complete a quest? I DON'T THINK SO!!!" *one hit kills*
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
PvP mmos should just concentrate of PvP.
When a company tries to do both, I never had any really good result. In the end will most probably stick to PvE and get my PvP from a pure PvP game.
I love pvp in skyrim.
Dumbass question.