As summoner i hope and pray everyday for pets to not be just glorified dots , i want to be a summoner not a dot class with a pet that follow me , i want to command my minions to do the dmg , at least it was i expect from a summoner , that the pet does 80% of my dmg , but not as passive , i want to synergy with it , a improved pet system from Aion / FFXI ....
i hope that every class have its own "minigame" , i will name WoW here , rogues had combo points, its like a minigame , hunters used to have aspects , diferent stings for diferent situations , maybe the ranger could use a quiver system , with different arrows ....
Monk could use a combo system , that chain attacks in order ABC = stun BCA = dot CBA = spike dmg ect
i hope we have resources to look at , and not just push the most dmg buttons until empty , and repeat .
I hope the enchanter has racial illusions! charm that doesnt break on dmg would be cool
and some chained attacks with others in the group would be amazing , FFXI skillchains or Eq2 heroic op. , Lotro system too
is too bad that this system usually fall off later on
I guess you never played any of Brad's games ie EQ or Vanguard. The Vanguard Necro was imo the best pet class in any mmo I've played and I've played most.
Then you had the Vanguard Shanman which had three different classes to choose from, a class that allowed you to choose between another three classes of the same class that all played differently and were also pet and healer classes.
Think we are in safe hands when it comes to any pet class in this mmo.
I wouldnt consider the Vanguard Shaman an actual Pet class. These pets couldnt do much damage, couldnt hold aggro (they had no aggro ability) and couldnt withstand much damage either.
Shaman, Ranger and Dread Knigth at level 55 got pets, but they have been more utility pets than anything else. Another set of abilities on a separate character that followed you around.
Really the only pet class in Vanguard was Necromancer.
So ideally a poorly played character should do maybe 5% or 10% of the damage of a skillfully played character. Because if the pet
automatically does 80% damage, there is no point at all for a summoner
to use their attack abilities at all. Having the pet do 50% of the damage would be much better already, sure, but still offers an very strong easy mode.
As someone who plays a magician in EQ and a conjurer in EQII, the best game I ever played for pet mechanics was City of Heroes.
Controlling 6+ pets was both challenging and rewarding if done well. Yes, the pets would frequently do 75-80% of my characters total damage, depending on specific choices made. That did not mean playing the character required no skill.
As a demons/dark player, I would be constantly involved in debuffing, healing, repositioning individual pets, and yes, attacking (primary AE heal was a lifetap).
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
As a demons/dark player, I would be constantly
involved in debuffing, healing, repositioning individual pets, and yes,
attacking (primary AE heal was a lifetap).
If implemented this way, that sounds perfectly fine.
That said, something like a combo system would work with 1 hotbar of abilities. Lets say we only have access to 10 active abilities at a time. Every ability has a classification, whether it's an attack, a buff, a defensive ability and so forth. Each ability class could proc a chain of the same type. For instance, if you used a heal ability and it procced, it would offer a follow up single target heal, group heal, or group heal over time.
That sounds too much like the overcontrolled approach all new mmorpgs suffer from, or as some others call "lock-in". Instead I would suggest continuing the spirit of eq, which is giving the player as much freedom as possible to combine abilities tactically, and when something breaks the systems only THEn limit its uses. Well anyways about combo systems, they always looked cool on paper but as seen in eq2 and other mmos they kindda removes some tactical finesse of combat and narrows the players thinking - If combos/chains were to be implemented the freedom aspect should be considered very very carefully in my opinion.
EQ2s combo system was flaming garbage. Vanguard's was actually quite enjoyable to me. A similar system not dependent on a +crit stat would be ideal.
As to the 1 ability/spell bar, that's actually how it's going to work. You can have multiple hotbars with other stuff on it, but there will be a limit to the number of active abilities. That is how it worked in EQ, and I never felt locked in or overly restrictive. You just sit down and swap abilities out, but it keeps you from having either the ability or need to rotate through every ability in your arsenal on every fight. The alternative of having everything at once was pretty much an unmitigated disaster in EQ2 and VG.
As someone who plays a magician in EQ and a conjurer in EQII, the best game I ever played for pet mechanics was City of Heroes.
Controlling 6+ pets was both challenging and rewarding if done well. Yes, the pets would frequently do 75-80% of my characters total damage, depending on specific choices made. That did not mean playing the character required no skill.
As a demons/dark player, I would be constantly involved in debuffing, healing, repositioning individual pets, and yes, attacking (primary AE heal was a lifetap).
Former Robots/Forcefield Mastermind, here.. And I could not agree more.. Without a doubt, the best and most fun pet class to ever play.. Managing your pets was definitely a required skill and you needed to be on your toes to keep them going..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
Well, it was very sweet on paper - but in reality it really wasnt something that came into play too often, at least no in my experience. I never experienced any form of coordination between players for it.
I remember waiting on my Cleric very often for DKs to put up a weakness to exploit it with my one attack that would do so, which I think was my damage debuff (-10% penalty to damage of the mob I think ?), but thats about all that ever happened in grouping.
DK, which I played later, wasnt much better. I dimly remember I had three attacks that would do anything about weaknesses - i.e. exploit a certain one and put up another. All three attacks had recast timers and I had quite a bit of trouble to not use them up before anyone would put up the weakness, especially since they have been part of my rotation and as a tank I would have to focus on sustained damage. I remember I knew which classes could put them up, but I've forgotten that by now.
And I think it was my Sorcerer(?) who couldnt put up any weakness and couldnt exploit any either. Lame !
And in raids you basically waited if possible if somebody would put up the weakness you required for your special attacks.
If for every second or so attack would put up weaknesses or exploit one, and if those effects would have provided a majority of the damage or have otherwise strong effects, people would have really cared about it. But as it was, I never saw any form of coordination between players about it. You did it for yourself, basically, if at all. I might have asked once or twice during seven years on a Cleric the group tank (DK) to put up the weakness I could exploit more often, with tanks that havent been used to grouping with me, but thats about it. Mind you, trying to do damage on a Cleric always felt kind of superflous in the first place, my damage output was horrible either way anyway.
I would like to get rid of the old saw that rangers should enjoy no special abilities in a dungeon. I can think of lots of things a ranger ought to be able to do well indoors:
Follow scent (be it a creature or fresh air coming in from a way out of the dungeon)
Conceal in shadows
Start fire (with special materials they bring with)
Listen (another version of tracking, to be able to hear things from a distance)
Special skills for climbing or rappelling
Identify (rock, plant, mushroom, moss)
And so on.
Rangers should have some indoor props too, imo.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
Lol, great bard system in Vanguard the best Bard in any mmo to date imo.
For anyone who didn't play Vanguard or know how the bard song system worked.
http://martisdiesdecuria.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1188.0
I guess you never played any of Brad's games ie EQ or Vanguard. The Vanguard Necro was imo the best pet class in any mmo I've played and I've played most.
Then you had the Vanguard Shanman which had three different classes to choose from, a class that allowed you to choose between another three classes of the same class that all played differently and were also pet and healer classes.
Think we are in safe hands when it comes to any pet class in this mmo.
Shaman, Ranger and Dread Knigth at level 55 got pets, but they have been more utility pets than anything else. Another set of abilities on a separate character that followed you around.
Really the only pet class in Vanguard was Necromancer.
I would be perfectly happy with EQ1 mechanics and updated graphics / interface.
What I absolutely do not want to see, and will not play, is twitch mechanics.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
As someone who plays a magician in EQ and a conjurer in EQII, the best game I ever played for pet mechanics was City of Heroes.
Controlling 6+ pets was both challenging and rewarding if done well. Yes, the pets would frequently do 75-80% of my characters total damage, depending on specific choices made. That did not mean playing the character required no skill.
As a demons/dark player, I would be constantly involved in debuffing, healing, repositioning individual pets, and yes, attacking (primary AE heal was a lifetap).
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
As to the 1 ability/spell bar, that's actually how it's going to work. You can have multiple hotbars with other stuff on it, but there will be a limit to the number of active abilities. That is how it worked in EQ, and I never felt locked in or overly restrictive. You just sit down and swap abilities out, but it keeps you from having either the ability or need to rotate through every ability in your arsenal on every fight. The alternative of having everything at once was pretty much an unmitigated disaster in EQ2 and VG.
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
I remember waiting on my Cleric very often for DKs to put up a weakness to exploit it with my one attack that would do so, which I think was my damage debuff (-10% penalty to damage of the mob I think ?), but thats about all that ever happened in grouping.
DK, which I played later, wasnt much better. I dimly remember I had three attacks that would do anything about weaknesses - i.e. exploit a certain one and put up another. All three attacks had recast timers and I had quite a bit of trouble to not use them up before anyone would put up the weakness, especially since they have been part of my rotation and as a tank I would have to focus on sustained damage. I remember I knew which classes could put them up, but I've forgotten that by now.
And I think it was my Sorcerer(?) who couldnt put up any weakness and couldnt exploit any either. Lame !
And in raids you basically waited if possible if somebody would put up the weakness you required for your special attacks.
If for every second or so attack would put up weaknesses or exploit one, and if those effects would have provided a majority of the damage or have otherwise strong effects, people would have really cared about it. But as it was, I never saw any form of coordination between players about it. You did it for yourself, basically, if at all. I might have asked once or twice during seven years on a Cleric the group tank (DK) to put up the weakness I could exploit more often, with tanks that havent been used to grouping with me, but thats about it. Mind you, trying to do damage on a Cleric always felt kind of superflous in the first place, my damage output was horrible either way anyway.
Follow scent (be it a creature or fresh air coming in from a way out of the dungeon)
Conceal in shadows
Start fire (with special materials they bring with)
Listen (another version of tracking, to be able to hear things from a distance)
Special skills for climbing or rappelling
Identify (rock, plant, mushroom, moss)
And so on.
Rangers should have some indoor props too, imo.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I would like to see bards able to save and title their songs, if there are songs.
uhhh, it is left up to the devs considering they make the choices. This is purely a hypothetical scenario.