People learn to settle into what is given

delete5230

This is what I see here,


First I have to tell a little story:

I would guess I'm older than most here, 54 in fact. Some would call me a grumpy old man for what I'm about to say but times have changed.  Is that an old mans statement or what ?


Back in the 70s life was totally different.  Before the internet we had three channels on TV and the law and rules weren't up our butts like they are today.  We had much more freedom in daily life's to be an individual.  This freedom was ever so slowly taken away in so many ways and the legal system and insurance companies decided to capitalize on the system.


Children are not allowed to play out side for fear of some sort of lawsuit or National News Channel talking about an isolated child abduction ten states away.  That strange old guy that wasn't hurting anyone was swiped off the street because parents didn't trust him and now he's in a guarded rest home, even if he never hurt anyone.  Public parks are watched for the slightest chance of bad behavior and people are reprimanded or often arrested if seen with an open container. 

Other changes, vehicles and homes used to be affordable in cash or very small bank loans.  Now entire families have to pool their monthly income for the rest of their lives to pay the never ending cycle.



We have been stripped from being an individual, very slowly and calculated to where people don't even realize it.....What can people do?
They can go to the mall, they can use their free time to shop or go to the designated movie theater....They can use a smart phone as long as they are careful of what they say or post.  

All this is not really for public safety or convince of spending.  It's built for the establishment to take money from us.  No one gives a damm about your safety !!!!!.......All of this happened very slowly and calculated, and it worked !!! 


HERE IS MY POINT......Their really is a point ! 

MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure.  Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore.  Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction.  Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want. 





   

Kyleran

I'm fairly certain the people playing ESO, BDO, FFXIV, GW2, and even Revelation online feel they are playing MMOs and having fun in them.

I'm sure many would agree the monetization strategies can be onerous at times, however as your thread title states, they've made the decision to accept them and play on.

Many others refuse compromise, and won't play any MMO due to game mechanics they don't enjoy, are missing entirely, or the "bad" (on their eyes) monetization model.

There's also the "retro" crowd who go back to an earlier time, playing older MMOs and private shards which take them back to the day.

Many folks in all 3 categories watch the indie space carefully, hoping for something new and fresh to play, even if in some cases older designs are revisited.

These are the best of times and the worst of times.

delete5230

Kyleran said:

I'm fairly certain the people playing ESO, BDO, FFXIV, GW2, and even Revelation online feel they are playing MMOs and having fun in them.

Ok, the solo on-line games.

Shaigh

Young people learn to adapt, old people cling to the past.

Kyleran

delete5230 said:

Kyleran said:

I'm fairly certain the people playing ESO, BDO, FFXIV, GW2, and even Revelation online feel they are playing MMOs and having fun in them.

Ok, the solo on-line games.

While not much out there for the group centric gamer, many people group regularly in all of the above games.

In fact as I understand it, RO is actually very group centric in the upper levels, (59+) and I noticed the first dungeon you really should run starts around level 20.

None of them are EQ or DAOC but those are still available in their classic forms if one is so intetested.

delete5230

Shaigh said:

Young people learn to adapt, old people cling to the past.

Like cattle ?.....The bank has their money

BruceYee

Your post made me remember the early 80's and how different it was back then.

Kyleran

BruceYee said:

Your post made me remember the early 80's and how different it was back then.

LOL, you should have seen the late 60s and 70s.

People huddled around their campfires, phones all had cords, read newspapers, listened to music on AM radio and 8 track tapes.

Games were played on boards, children didn't wear seat belts (no one did) or helmets and the TV news actually reported on the actual news. (though fake news existed even back then)

Sexually transmitted diseases were all curable (well except for pregnancy  ) we carried pocket knives in school (legally), if you hit a teacher they would hit you back, and when you got home your parents were likely to do much worse.

immodium

It was indeed a simpler time back in the day.

delete5230

immodium said:

It was indeed a simpler time back in the day.

All through human history, millions of years, people were allowed to build memories.  Now you only have YouTubes... This is all so the 1% can get your money.  And yes MMO's are affected !

Jabas

Almost 47 here, yes the "old times" had their magic and its nice to remember.
But so is the "new times". Every time have the good and bad parts (each personal opinion). We are talking about online entertaintment so i try to focus on the good part:
- The market is fill with games
-  some pay2wins are unfair but they also allow players play it by free
- Alot of games are not only restricted to our pc at home, mobile can be a really nice thing

Had alot of fun with L2 in the pass, had a huge fun with AA untill quit, having fun now with my solo adventure on BDO (solo by choice), had fun in Albion Online beta and wait to release this summer, etc, etc

Do i find the perfect game? no but can still found fun on nowdays games.
About spending money on games, we as costumers need to protect ourselfs and not fall on the usuall "traps".

Old times were great, the current ones are to, none is better just diferent  

Gdemami

You are grumpy old man.

delete5230

DMKano said:

"Yesterday is history
Tomorrow is a mystery
but today is a gift.

Thats why they call it - present."
-Oogway

Seems like OP likes to dwell in the past, maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot 

I'm 54 years old, been doing Kung Fu for 26 years and I can run an 18 year old into the ground, they barely can last a simple one hour class.  I play video games and hang out with people in their 20's.


I'm completely up to speed on everything and do it all..... I can say for a fact their was wayyyy more freedom back then, it was much better !

delete5230

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

DMKano said:

"Yesterday is history
Tomorrow is a mystery
but today is a gift.

Thats why they call it - present."
-Oogway

Seems like OP likes to dwell in the past, maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot 

I'm 54 years old, been doing Kung Fu for 26 years and I can run an 18 year old into the ground, they barely can last a simple one hour class.  I play video games and hang out with people in their 20's.


I'm completely up to speed on everything and do it all..... I can say for a fact their was wayyyy more freedom back then, it was much better !

Ok so lets say that it was better back in the day - now what?

Its not comming back, those days are never coming back.

No matter how much you think and talk about it, the past is done.

So why invest so much energy into it when its not going to bring the past back?

It's coming back and Pantheon will prove it's the establishment and not the people.  People are being tricked into thinking they like stuff.  They have the power and money to tell us so. You and I have no power unless you have an extra two million to advertise your opinion.


People are settling, sure people like games like BDO, but this is a different group of people here now, sure it's oblivious some like both.  The mmo people have nothing !

delete5230

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

DMKano said:

"Yesterday is history
Tomorrow is a mystery
but today is a gift.

Thats why they call it - present."
-Oogway

Seems like OP likes to dwell in the past, maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot 

I'm 54 years old, been doing Kung Fu for 26 years and I can run an 18 year old into the ground, they barely can last a simple one hour class.  I play video games and hang out with people in their 20's.


I'm completely up to speed on everything and do it all..... I can say for a fact their was wayyyy more freedom back then, it was much better !

Ok so lets say that it was better back in the day - now what?

Its not comming back, those days are never coming back.

No matter how much you think and talk about it, the past is done.

So why invest so much energy into it when its not going to bring the past back?

It's coming back and Pantheon will prove it's the establishment and not the people.  People are being tricked into thinking they like stuff.  They have the power and money to tell us so. You and I have no power unless you have an extra two million to advertise your opinion.


People are settling, sure people like games like BDO, but this is a different group of people here now, sure it's oblivious some like both.  The mmo people have nothing !

Pantheon is not bringing the past back.

It's bringing SOME old school elements back - but what Pantheon can't bring back is what made EQ1 really magic - the playerbase.

The playerbase has changed drastically after 17 years of MMOs - nobody can bring back the magic of EQ1 back.

The player base was forced to change drastically after 17 years. 


Very important to understand, the group here changed hands...one group of fans went then replaced by another. 

Two things will come with the return of mmo's
1) The vets will come back.
2) New players will embrace an mmo.

For some reason people are under the impression that young people are dumb, lazy or short attention spans...... Lets not forget PEOPLE DO HAVE TIME TO PLAY LONG HOURS, if they choose.

Just a few comments up someone actually mentioned, I cant even show someone else a 2 minute YouTube.... do you believe that !....... How many people really like someone else's YouTube jammed in their face ?....The things people say here  

NPCPak

I have to agree with DMKano, and as players there is nothing we can do about that. Millennials and post-millennials are the new focus, not us. We've lived our time and MMO companies want to change to fit their new consumer needs in an attempt of long lasting profit. As with every changing generation, all we can do is accept these changes.

delete5230

NPCPak said:

I have to agree with DMKano, and as players there is nothing we can do about that. Millennials and post-millennials are the new focus, not us. We've lived our time and MMO companies want to change to fit their new consumer needs in an attempt of long lasting profit. As with every changing generation, all we can do is accept these changes.

I'm not really knocking the new style.  Just their not mmos.  What I'm saying is people would love a real mmo but we don't have any, not even the classics ( they changed ). 


Young and Old.... This is Key

Asm0deus

Shaigh said:

Young people learn to adapt, old people cling to the past.

Old people walk forwards with eyes open yet mindful of the past, young people look forwards with eyes closed without knowledge of the past.


*This fortune cookie was brought to you by Asm0deus.*

Sovrath

Kyleran said:

BruceYee said:

Your post made me remember the early 80's and how different it was back then.

LOL, you should have seen the late 60s and 70s.

People huddled around their campfires, phones all had cords, read newspapers, listened to music on AM radio and 8 track tapes.

Games were played on boards, children didn't wear seat belts (no one did) or helmets and the TV news actually reported on the actual news. (though fake news existed even back then)

Sexually transmitted diseases were all curable (well except for pregnancy  ) we carried pocket knives in school (legally), if you hit a teacher they would hit you back, and when you got home your parents were likely to do much worse.

We have a lot of younger people at my work and when I tell them there wasn't a world wide web or remotes or ATM's and we actually still listened to radio shows and fought with TV antennas and everything was closed on the weekends and it took 6 to 8 weeks to get something you ordered, they freak.

Kyleran

DMKano said:

 maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot 

You mean like the new "Power Rangers" movie?

Please no 

Neanderthal

delete5230 said:

This is what I see here,


First I have to tell a little story:

I would guess I'm older than most here, 54 in fact. Some would call me a grumpy old man for what I'm about to say but times have changed.  Is that an old mans statement or what ?


Back in the 70s life was totally different.  Before the internet we had three channels on TV and the law and rules weren't up our butts like they are today.  We had much more freedom in daily life's to be an individual.  This freedom was ever so slowly taken away in so many ways and the legal system and insurance companies decided to capitalize on the system.

You  got three channels on TV?  You musta been rich city folks.  We got two channels where I lived and if we wanted to change channels someone had to go outside, stick a pipe through a hole in the antenna pole, and manually turn it to point it towards the other TV station.  Also, my parents' rotary phone was still on a party line, meaning we shared it with our neighbors.  If we were using the phone they couldn't but they could pick up their phone and listen to what we were saying and vice versa.

I do very much agree with what you said in the part I quoted.  Our freedom has been gradually chipped away.  After that you sort of drift off into conspiracy theory stuff.

The thing about how MMOs changed----I really don't think it's any dastardly conspiracy or even a mean trick.  It's just people trying to make money.  They go with what they think will work.  Obviously they are not always right about what will work.

Kyleran

Sovrath said:

Kyleran said:

BruceYee said:

Your post made me remember the early 80's and how different it was back then.

LOL, you should have seen the late 60s and 70s.

People huddled around their campfires, phones all had cords, read newspapers, listened to music on AM radio and 8 track tapes.

Games were played on boards, children didn't wear seat belts (no one did) or helmets and the TV news actually reported on the actual news. (though fake news existed even back then)

Sexually transmitted diseases were all curable (well except for pregnancy  ) we carried pocket knives in school (legally), if you hit a teacher they would hit you back, and when you got home your parents were likely to do much worse.

it took 6 to 8 weeks to get something you ordered, they freak.

I just discussed this today with my daughter who was complaining about issues with an Amazon order.

Besides having to use a "corded'" phone and "allow 6-8 weeks for delivery" returns were a nightmare.

She was aghast.

But we did have the "Green Stamp" store

Distopia

This whole premise of people "settling" for things they don't like is just simply asinine. Especially when the genre is mostly B2P or F2P.  There are far too many forms of entertainment (both old and new) to just "settle" for anything. If there's no MMo to like there are plenty of other ways to entertain oneself, far too many to "settle" into what is given. At this point I don't know who you're trying to convince, us or yourself? 

And please stop acting as though WOW is an "Old School MMO" which we all know that is where you started,....... It was the first of the new school, it brought us to what we have today. Those of us around pre-WOW knew exactly where that game was taking this genre. 

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure.  Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore.  Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction.  Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want. 





   

This all smacks a little bit of paranoia.

Unless you have actually been on a development team or run a game company you don't know that it changed from 20% to 90%.

There's always a business aspect to anything creative if you want to make money doing it. And while there are large companies that tend to try to milk as much money as they can in general all companies want to/need to make money.

Also, there is a bit of hypocrisy when it comes to lambasting video game companies for making money for their investors. I'm sure you have retirement funds, stocks, mutual fund packages and you would probably be a bit angry if they weren't taking your investment and making the most of it.

Unless of course you are one of those people who only invest in ethical, environmentally conscious companies in which case "good for you" and my hat is off to you.

delete5230

Neanderthal said:

delete5230 said:

This is what I see here,


First I have to tell a little story:

I would guess I'm older than most here, 54 in fact. Some would call me a grumpy old man for what I'm about to say but times have changed.  Is that an old mans statement or what ?


Back in the 70s life was totally different.  Before the internet we had three channels on TV and the law and rules weren't up our butts like they are today.  We had much more freedom in daily life's to be an individual.  This freedom was ever so slowly taken away in so many ways and the legal system and insurance companies decided to capitalize on the system.

You  got three channels on TV?  You musta been rich city folks.  We got two channels where I lived and if we wanted to change channels someone had to go outside, stick a pipe through a hole in the antenna pole, and manually turn it to point it towards the other TV station.  Also, my parents' rotary phone was still on a party line, meaning we shared it with our neighbors.  If we were using the phone they couldn't but they could pick up their phone and listen to what we were saying and vice versa.

I do very much agree with what you said in the part I quoted.  Our freedom has been gradually chipped away.  After that you sort of drift off into conspiracy theory stuff.

The thing about how MMOs changed----I really don't think it's any dastardly conspiracy or even a mean trick.  It's just people trying to make money.  They go with what they think will work.  Obviously they are not always right about what will work.

I have to hand crank my computer on, where is that rusty old thing anyway ?

Quizzical

delete5230 said:

MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure.  Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore.  Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction.  Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want. 
   

MMOs were always a business.  Just because game companies hadn't yet figured out how to best monetize their games doesn't mean that they weren't interested in doing so.