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Do not give this project any more money.
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The biggest will be the gap people will notice, as the game continues to develop and releasing updates. This only captivates interest because it makes unaware people think "is this really as bad as he says it is?" and go check things by themselves and make their own conclusions.
In truth, you're helping CIG. You'll see.
This is a SC discussion in a SC forum on a gaming website. What matters in this thread is that CIG does this, and it's wrong.
Tell CIG you want a finished product before you will give them any more money. Simple.
As for joining in on this type of thing, I have to emphasize what i just said. I think it falls on deaf ears around here, as most understand when we're likely if ever going to see this as a full blown game, and they're going to spend regardless of what anyone says.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One sure FACT, This thread will end up 15 - 20 pages long and nothing will have changed. The project will continue. As I said in another thread, outside this board, no cares. It's as if we're all stuck in a loop. Same questions, same answers, same speeches we've had for the past 4 years.
So I think is at least the majority of the people who back into crowdfunding and/or early access. If people want a released game they should buy a released game, that's all.
If you're a CIGtologist go pray, drink your kool-aid and be happy.
If you're a former CIGtologist, time to go make a new life and be happy away from the cult.
People in the middle really don't care anymore. If the game launches and it's good people will play it, if it's bad they won't. If it doesn't launch we'll all get a good chuckle at the worst debacle in the history of gaming. Nobody gets bonuses for calling the right outcome unless you guys care to make a wager. THAT would actually be interesting since you're all so "invested".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I fully agree. Imagine for a second how these threads would go if denialists didn't go to the lengths that they do. We'd probably have 10 or 20 posts grumbling about missed ETAs and then it would fizzle right out.
Instead we get this....
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
To celebrate also pledged for a couple of upgrades:
Avenger Stalker »» Cutlass Black
Misc Reliant LTI »» Freelancer
Thanks Obama Free Flight !
Been watching this cluster f from the very start. Keep wondering if they are actually going to release a game. Some of the footage looks promising, like the youtube video where the guy flys to a star for 27 hours (timelapsed) now that's space.
Its has promise, but will it ever actually be released? Idk, Idc, they wont get any $ from me till they have a completed product for sale.
I totally agree!! And I think that spending crazy amounts of money on virtual items is crazy to begin with. However, I got my package for $20, so there's great value in it for me. If someone can find similar value, then go for it. However, I would never advise someone to back something that isn't already released and reviewed unless they felt like they were getting good value for their money. However, that's subjective.
What you're claiming is a "many do it, why can't we" argument is called context. That means that chastising one company and praising others for similar practices makes you a hypocrite or, at very least, destroys your credibility. Like I said, I have no problem with you saying stuff like, "I wouldn't give these guys another dime because of all the delays in the past. Plus they've got enough money!" yada yada. However, when you are, essentially, eluding that their practices are criminal in some way, that's a pretty serious accusation for something that is pretty normal when placed in the CONTEXT of the industry.
Without context, you can make things seem much worse than what they are. For instance, did you know that Kinder Eggs (candy) are one of the most dangerous things ever. If you don't believe me, you can actually be arrested for attempting to bring them over the US border and can be fined $2500 per egg! I find it sad that US children are missing out on a childhood.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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A. *sigh* No, just because something happened one way in my situation doesn't mean that's what's happening here. HOWEVER!! It also doesn't mean it's happening the way that you say it is. I don't know why that's so difficult to understand.
Yes, Brian Chambers DOES mention that they are creating a gameplay TEAM. By process of elimination, that would mean that prior to now gameplay design was being performed by software developers. It is relevant that he's talking about a gameplay team, though, because hopefully it means that the gameplay won't suck. I used to work with this crazy Russian (sorry Ukrainian) developer who decided he knew best how people would use a system. No..... just no..... He's actually one of the reasons you'll commonly see me state on here that you never let developers talk to people.
B. Honestly, I only have so many hours in a day and I have mostly resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to convince you, or @Adjuvant1 of anything other than you think. So, being that I'm a conscientious observer, I felt like someone at least needed to provide something that people who are maybe trying to make a purchase decision might find useful in making an objective decision.
C. All opinions are fair. Not all opinions are right. Some opinions even border on being bat-shit crazy. There is a big difference between having an opinion and being objective. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one! Do I feel it's necessary to call out people who are being bat-shit crazy? Maybe. I've done it in other threads too. Go look. Nothing grinds my gears more than people trying to pass of fiction as fact, though. So, yeah, I'll do my best to interject and be a white knight or an Internet Crusader or whatever else you'd call me. Honestly, I'd like to think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm going to change someone's mind or actually help them think logically about a situation. I'm probably a fucking idiot for thinking that, though. My biggest problem is that I should know, and do know, to just stay the fuck away from this shit because it's absolutely pointless, but here I am, like Goldmember eating my fucking scabs.
D. I don't know if you can be critical without objectivity, can you? Being critical expressly involves being analytical or involves some level of evaluation, which would lend one to believe that there is some level of objectivity. After all, there is a reason they call people "Critics". Are you assuming that they don't have some method of reviewing things that are metric-based? Or based on their breadth of knowledge of similar things? Foods, wines, games, movies, whatever!
Honestly, saying you're invested doesn't really mean anything. Derek Smart was invested at one point, too. Actually, there are people who simply bought in just to issue refunds. I'm not saying you're at that extreme a level, I'm just saying that there is no correlation between being financially-invested in the project and being objective.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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The devs don't even know how the game will really be because they are not gods who can do exactly what they say they will. They will run into unforeseen problems and have to come up with unforeseen solutions. Lots of mistakes will be made and lots of changes will be made both large and small.
About the game not delivering updates on time. It's pretty much never delivered on time which is why some people are projecting a 2022 launch date. Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.
I have seen a lot of complaints in the forums lately and and a lot of anti-SC videos popping up. The last video I saw made by CIG, roughly suggested that you could already land on planets and that they were working on even more planets to land on. Further on they stated they were still in alpha and were working on a lot of things. With that alone I could see how people might rush to the game thinking it looked like the slick videos they produce and find out a lot of things are yet to be.
People were also complaining that the store in which you buy upgrade items for your ship has several items in it that no longer work, yet people won't know this until they buy one or do a lot of research on the forums.
Being a first time project, new company, new teams working together for the first time, I'm not really surprised by all the trials and errors and just plan dropping stuff without a word. But hope they will one day get things to come together at least close to their plans.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
All the more reason for them to be careful with what they say and how they say it. Personally I think it's very important for developers to use appropriate wording when encouraging people to open their wallets. A lot of the problem here is that is not how CIG have operated.
Instead of saying "we would like" or "we will look into" or "this is not on our plan", they have practically said yes to everything under the sun. People used to joke about 10ftC being about a show where you heard Roberts say yes 10 times...
Things that were "promised" as stretch goals are being walked back on and if there is any repercussion it is only because CIG have themselves to blame.
For example the game was described as a space sim with flight mechanics affected by shifting mass, this was one of their selling points, they promised that this sort of thing would be what separates SC from the competition and now they have dumped that as they've realised it isn't fun or it's too hard to implement.
When a developer uses phrasing that makes it sound as though they are certain you cannot blame people for taking that onboard. These are people that are experienced in their field so backers (typically people with no developer experience) are going to listen to them, much in the same way you would listen to your car mechanic or whatever.
That was one of the things I liked about Frontier, on the whole they were very careful about what they agreed to.
I know it sounds like I'm ragging on CIG but I have this opinion about any and all developers, Sean Murray was another prime example, Frontier and how they handled their offline mode and so on.
They are greedy bastards and they barely try to hide that fact anymore. And please don't lecture me about no one is holding a gun to their head bull.
One of the most common terminologies that were always used on places as 10ftc, is "we plan", "we hope", "we would like X and Y", "in the far future", for many many things that are part of this game's scope of things that might or not be.
I really can't see where you are coming from, it's easy to dig into the terminology he uses and understand a majority of his answers always felt under the realm of possibility, not a certainty.
For example http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=86&qid=1
Our plan / I think / I guess. There's a freaking lot of answers like that, showing something is planned to be like that, but not confirming it will be.