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PSU advice.

MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
in Hardware
Looking at this one:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817151132

The newegg calculator states i need a 656w, so 750 seems like it should be fine. 

Any other thoughts. 

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

--John Ruskin







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Comments

  • hatefulpeacehatefulpeace Member UncommonPosts: 621

    Top Critical Review

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    What are you doing that needs 656 W?  It's pretty rare for a gaming rig to pull even 500 W from a power supply, and many capable gaming desktops will never draw 300 W.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    edited March 2017
    Quizzical said:
    What are you doing that needs 656 W?  It's pretty rare for a gaming rig to pull even 500 W from a power supply, and many capable gaming desktops will never draw 300 W.
    I just grabbed off of the Newegg calculator. 

    1080
    i7
    16GB RAM
    2x SSD
    Blu-Ray player
     
    I am not sure how much extra newegg throws in to get people to buy larger PSU. 

    The 1080 reads:
    GPU (TDP): 131W (Real)
    Total Graphics Power (TGP): 225W (Real)

    CPU:
    91W


    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    That might not ever draw 300 W from the power supply at stock speeds.  Even a good quality 400 W power supply might be enough, though that's cutting it needlessly close.  But a good quality 550 W power supply would be plenty, or 650 W if you want to overclock or have headroom for higher powered upgrades.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Quizzical said:
    That might not ever draw 300 W from the power supply at stock speeds.  Even a good quality 400 W power supply might be enough, though that's cutting it needlessly close.  But a good quality 550 W power supply would be plenty, or 650 W if you want to overclock or have headroom for higher powered upgrades.
    I don't doubt what you are saying at all.  I know you know far more about PSU/Hardware than I do.  Do you suspect that Newegg is artificially increasing what they suggest people buy so they can sell lager PSU?

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,519
    edited March 2017
    I always like to give myself a little head room when it comes to PSU's.  The system may only draw 300w max and a 350w psu will work on it, but it will have more load on it which in turn means more heat and wear.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    That might not ever draw 300 W from the power supply at stock speeds.  Even a good quality 400 W power supply might be enough, though that's cutting it needlessly close.  But a good quality 550 W power supply would be plenty, or 650 W if you want to overclock or have headroom for higher powered upgrades.
    I don't doubt what you are saying at all.  I know you know far more about PSU/Hardware than I do.  Do you suspect that Newegg is artificially increasing what they suggest people buy so they can sell lager PSU?
    Not all power supplies are good quality.  Some 650 W power supplies can deliver 650 W under harsher than real world conditions and keep everything well within spec.  Others will explode if you try to pull 650 W from them.  Inflating requirements is partially an effort at making it so that even people who get mediocre but not terrible power supplies will still be all right.

    Another issue is overclocking.  If you get a 180 W video card, then stick a waterblock on it and give it a massive overclock so that it's pulling 300 W, suddenly you need a stronger power supply to handle that.  For that matter, even a factory overclocked GTX 1080 might use 220 W out of the box, well over the 180 W TDP that you'll find if you check nvidia.com.

    Power supplies also lose capacity to some degree as they age.  A power supply that can stay in spec up to 650 W today might only be able to stay in spec up to 500 W or 550 W five years from now.  You don't want a power supply that seems to work flawlessly, then suddenly fries everything after three years.  So there's some overprovisioning for that.

    There's also the possibility that you might upgrade something in the future.  A power supply that's barely enough today might fail if you stick a 250 W video card in there later.  You'd likely be sharp enough not to do that, but some people wouldn't.  And the sort of people who create problems by using an insufficient power supply are likely to blame other things and not the power supply unless it dies outright.

    And there's also some general caution.  If they advise too big of a power supply and people waste $20 buying a higher capacity power supply than they needed, people won't realize it and won't be upset.  If they advise too small and a handful of people fry their system, they'll be furious.  So they err on the side of too big rather than too small.

    You can do some back of the envelope calculations yourself.  A GTX 1080 has a TDP of 180 W.  A Core i7-7700K has a TDP of 91 W.  That makes 271 W if you leave both at stock settings--which in the case of a GTX 1080, means no factory overclock.  Other components are 1 W here and 5 W there, but assuming 100 W total for the whole thing is usually a pretty generous overestimate, with exceptions for people who want to do something weird like running 12 hard drives.  So a power supply that offers more than 91+180+100 = 371 W on the +12 V rail alone should theoretically be enough.

    I say the +12 V rail because most CPU and GPU power comes on the +12 V rail, as well as some of the power for less power-hungry components.  If a power supply is rated at 500 W total but only 300 W on the +12 V rail, there's pretty much no way that a gaming rig could pull anywhere near 500 W without going over 300 W on the +12 V rail.  Though really, if there's a large gap between rated nominal wattage and that of the +12 V rail alone, the power supply is probably junk and should be avoided.  A 10 W gap there is reasonable, but a 100 W gap is not.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Seasonic 550-650W - can't go wrong right there in 95% of all gaming computers.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    edited March 2017
    So is the 650w of the one I listed what makes the most sense? 

    I refer you to my signature.  I have no problem paying a little.  I don't want to pay to little and regret it later. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited March 2017
    Yup. It will be more than enough. Seasonic is a solid brand, I don't know of any of their PSUs that are not at least good, if not stellar. Don't need to oversize the wattage, and they run fairly quite overall.

    I had a 4790K and a 980 running on a 420W Seasonic just to prove a point. I usually recommend ~600W range, because that works comfortably with pretty much every computer built - even some SLI builds or with mild to moderate overclocks.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    MMOman101 said:
    So is the 650w of the one I listed what makes the most sense? 

    I refer you to my signature.  I have no problem paying a little.  I don't want to pay to little and regret it later. 
    If you don't plan on unreasonably large overclocks or multiple GPUs in SLI/CrossFire, then 650 W is enough.  And 550 W would likely be enough, too, but you seem like the sort that might well upgrade to a higher power GPU in the future, so you might as well go with 650 W to be safe.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    What about this one?

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA25V2SC0908



    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • hatefulpeacehatefulpeace Member UncommonPosts: 621
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    That might not ever draw 300 W from the power supply at stock speeds.  Even a good quality 400 W power supply might be enough, though that's cutting it needlessly close.  But a good quality 550 W power supply would be plenty, or 650 W if you want to overclock or have headroom for higher powered upgrades.
    I don't doubt what you are saying at all.  I know you know far more about PSU/Hardware than I do.  Do you suspect that Newegg is artificially increasing what they suggest people buy so they can sell lager PSU?
    No there not. Psu are usually most efficient at 50 percent loads. It's not really that important , just buy one over 500 watts. I had a 290x oced,  and a 3570k, on a cheap 500 watt I bought for 30 bucks. It lasted over a year. Btw the 290x uses more power than a 1080. I heard the rumors and thought if I bought a better psu I could get a better oc. It didn't help. Just look for single rail psu over 500 watts, and you'll be fine.

    I'll give you a tip though. I assume your gaming take back the i7 get a i5. Take back the 1080 and buy a 1080 ti.  You will get way more fps. If you aren't just gaming, then ryzen is way better at multitasking than i7, in till you get up into the 10 core 1500 dollar cpu. Also if you aren't 4k gaming the 1070 is a way better deal. The 1080 is kind of useless atm. It doesn't get much better fps than a 1070, yet costs 550 vs 350. The 1080 isn't enough for 4k 60 fps the 1080 ti is.

    Also if this is pure gaming. And you have no more room for raising the price. Let me put it this way. A i7 7700k, 16gb of ram, 1080, costs basically the same as a i5 7600k 8gbs of ram and a 1080ti. The difference in fps, is over 30 percent higher with the i5 and 7600k. 16gbs of ram isn't all that useful for gaming. Unless your multi tasking like 20 times. In which case the ryzen would  help you more.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    MMOman101 said:
    While that would probably be okay, it's also considerably inferior to this, while costing a lot more:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151118

    The most recent review of the one you found is from 2009, so it's probably some old unit that is long since off the market, and the few that are still around haven't sold because they're stupidly overpriced.  If you're inclined to pay a premium for top end quality, the way to do it is one of these:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151121
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151154
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151158

    Those are the lowest wattage versions of each of Seasonic's three most recent top end power supplies.

    But don't feel like you have to get one of those.  That's the sort of thing you'd get if you came in with a $2000+ budget excluding periperhals and were inclined to spend it all even for only marginal improvements over much cheaper products.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    edited March 2017
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    That might not ever draw 300 W from the power supply at stock speeds.  Even a good quality 400 W power supply might be enough, though that's cutting it needlessly close.  But a good quality 550 W power supply would be plenty, or 650 W if you want to overclock or have headroom for higher powered upgrades.
    I don't doubt what you are saying at all.  I know you know far more about PSU/Hardware than I do.  Do you suspect that Newegg is artificially increasing what they suggest people buy so they can sell lager PSU?
    No there not. Psu are usually most efficient at 50 percent loads. It's not really that important , just buy one over 500 watts. I had a 290x oced,  and a 3570k, on a cheap 500 watt I bought for 30 bucks. It lasted over a year. Btw the 290x uses more power than a 1080. I heard the rumors and thought if I bought a better psu I could get a better oc. It didn't help. Just look for single rail psu over 500 watts, and you'll be fine.

    I'll give you a tip though. I assume your gaming take back the i7 get a i5. Take back the 1080 and buy a 1080 ti.  You will get way more fps. If you aren't just gaming, then ryzen is way better at multitasking than i7, in till you get up into the 10 core 1500 dollar cpu. Also if you aren't 4k gaming the 1070 is a way better deal. The 1080 is kind of useless atm. It doesn't get much better fps than a 1070, yet costs 550 vs 350. The 1080 isn't enough for 4k 60 fps the 1080 ti is.

    Also if this is pure gaming. And you have no more room for raising the price. Let me put it this way. A i7 7700k, 16gb of ram, 1080, costs basically the same as a i5 7600k 8gbs of ram and a 1080ti. The difference in fps, is over 30 percent higher with the i5 and 7600k. 16gbs of ram isn't all that useful for gaming. Unless your multi tasking like 20 times. In which case the ryzen would  help you more.
    I picked up the 1080 for $500 and the 1080ti is 700.  The CPU was only $280.  I was going to buy the 1070, but the difference was only $100 and the price to performance ratio is about equal.  25% more for 25% more performance. 

    The price for the 1080TI is about %40 more and from what I have read the TI is only about 10% faster. 

    The $500 price on the 1080 is the only reason I bought it. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    @ Quizzical

    I appreciate your time and assistance.  I have a general question if you have the time.  Tomshardware seems to love EVGA PSU. Is there a reason why you tend to lean towards seasonic?  Is EVGA basically the same product but you are paying extra for the name?

    I have usually trusted tomshardware as a source for good information.   Would you, in general, consider them a good place for information?

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Seasonic builds their own PSUs, and has built up a reputation as a solid brand to go to. That being said, they are not the cheapest, so some people poo-poo them because it doesn't increase your FPS or make your computer faster. PSUs aren't sexy parts in that regard.

    EVGA rebrands other PSUs, some of which could even Seasonic models. Others of which can be hit or miss. 

    This used to be a post that showed what models were rebrands of others, but it seems to be taken down. Maybe someone will look it up in the Wayback machine or something.
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Discover-Your-Power-Supplys-Real-Manufacturer/370/1
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    edited March 2017

    Just for the record, if your budget is flexible the EVGA G2 Supernova PSU are some of the best reviewed, server grade PSUs you can get.  It's gonna run about 30 bucks more than that, but, something to consider.

    PSU are just one of those things I don't mess around with after having one explode on me.  I just want to stress, 99.999% you will be fine with that seasonic.

    Also, if you want to read PSU reviews, Jonnyguru is the place to go. That guy does insanely in depth testing/reviews.

    Edit: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438054&cm_re=EVGA_Supernova_G2-_-17-438-054-_-Product

    Looks like not much more, 10 bucks

    Edit 2:https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817438094

    The new G3 version is same price, might as well grab that, 90 bucks after mail in rebate.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited March 2017
    Jonnyguru is awesome for PSUs. I also like HardOCP for their PSU reviews.

    The only reason I say Seasonic - you may overpay, and you may be able to find better elsewhere, but if you buy any Seasonic you won't ever pick a hunk of junk that will blow up your computer. Corsair used to be that way too, but they aren't quite as reliable anymore across their entire lineup in the past couple of years.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Amazon has a g3:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYGFRL6/ref=twister_B01LXKQ07C?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

    For what seems like a decent price (free shipping).

    I was just reading some reviews on Jonnyguru.com.

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • JemAs666JemAs666 Member UncommonPosts: 252
    EVGA does make a good PSU, but like others I have used Seasonic for years with no issues.  I don't think I have ever had a Seasonic die.  I am using the same PSU in my last 3 builds.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Like Ridelynn said, seasonic is always a solid choice, pretty much any PSU they make is going to perform well.

    EVGA has been hit and miss, but as I was saying the G2/G3 series are on the top of the pile, and honestly for a $10 difference, I'd jump on that G3 650w and never look back.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,521
    EVGA does make some nice power supplies (or perhaps rather, rebrand some nice power supplies).  What I don't like about them is that they have a lot of different ones with very similar names.  Especially if you get to a site like Amazon that isn't always the best about labeling exactly what a product is, it can be hard to tell exactly what you're getting.  If you can verify that a particular model exactly matches one that got favorable reviews on reputable sites, then have at it.  But it would be a huge mistake to assume that just because it says EVGA on the box automatically meant the power supply is good.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Quiz brings up a good point, you do have to be careful. And to be fair, I think multiple of us have mentioned that corsair is not like seasonic where you can be assured anything with there name on it is going to be at best competent.

    Again, if he wants to go with that seasonic I'm sure he will be just fine, for me, 10 bucks is worth it to get one of the best PSU's that's ever been made.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Hrimnir said:

    Quiz brings up a good point, you do have to be careful. And to be fair, I think multiple of us have mentioned that corsair is not like seasonic where you can be assured anything with there name on it is going to be at best competent.

    Again, if he wants to go with that seasonic I'm sure he will be just fine, for me, 10 bucks is worth it to get one of the best PSU's that's ever been made.

    Yeah, Corsair have started to sell PSUs of more varied quality the last 10 years so you need to consider which one to pick carefully there but to be fair do you need to do that will all of them. Seasonic makes some of the best.

    Personally I invested in a really oversized high end Corsair PSU with 1000W 5 years ago when I had a little too much money but I expect to use it for at least 5 more years (maybe more) and I think it might been worth the extra cash in the long run, the reason I got such a huge one was in case power consumption went up but it seems like that really wasn't necessarily. That and my buddy at the hardware store gave me a good deal on it. But then I am a bit eccentric with hardware, my case is almost 20 years old (boy, did that old Chieftech maxi tower give me great value for my investment). Some parts of a computer can last pretty long while others becomes dated rather fast.

    A Seasonic is an excellent choice and you should go for it, most high end builds I make for friends use them and they have always performed excellent so far.  
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