Well op that is why i wouldn't like Eve,pvp will ruin any rpg type design. Pvp imo is only viable in an arena fps shooter because you give pvp everything it needs to be it's very best.In a rpg your introducing ideas that are not at all connected to pvp,instead just ideas that likely interrupt or piss others off. My gut feeling tells me it is ONLY the ships and pvp that drives people to the game,imo it has very weak if any rpg qualities.Another thing about pvp is in reality you cannot concentrate on any more than 1-2 opponents,that is why i liked ffa DM or a maximum of 3-6 players depending on size of map.The idea of team pvp never attracted me,needing team speak/discord or whatever,no thanks,i prefer to concentrate on just me in pvp scenarios.
I am certain knowing what i do of pvp psyche in player minds. They feel a bit of comfort zone in a large open space similar to the way mild arena shooter players tend to aim for bigger safer maps.If a game has pvp,there is no such thing as safe,you are always a target and that will always be the goal of the game,pretending to be anything else just makes for a weak game.
Distopia said: Game mechanics/tools only go so far as to dictate your likely hood of falling victim to gankers though, wouldn't you agree? You're talking as if the game itself is not player driven in the end, the forgiving nature is largely dictated by the way in which players approach it, run into an "unforgiving" player you're pretty much in for an unforgiving time. Also don't pretend that there are not mechanics and tools used to the benefit of the ganker as well.
I am trying to find a point in your post but I can't see any...sorry.
Saying some mechanics favour this or that playstyle makes no sense - they do not exist alone, seperately but are a part of complex system providing set of instruments that will either protect or endanger you depending on situation and context.
Problem is that some carebears think that they should be able to fly bling, bling ships in empire without risk.
Sorry, but that is not EVE. If you want to blaze though content wihtout risk, WoW is that way. In EVE there is always a risk/reward balance, even in empire. Do not run missions or incursions in bling, bling ships, if you do not like getting ganked. Hell, do not bling, bling mine if you do not want to be ganked.
Simple as that. Deal or leave. Same as always.
Ignorance doesn't help you to understand the problem. On the other hand, from what you wrote i see that you are part of the problem.
It's very easy to talk tough when you aren't shouldering most of the risk.
So sitting in my mining barge and being attacked by a griefer is taking him the risk ?
Sad for newer players and people expecting fair play.
No need to be sad at all.
There is plethora tools for old and new players how to avoid engagement if you wish so. Sure, there will be always some that are oblivious to their surrounding and game mechanics and those will have difficult time in EVE but that is how the game is, it does not give you anything for free - it isn't a mindless, all-forgiving game.
If you actually care and make minimal effort, a chance of getting ganked in high-sec is very slim....
Pardon me ? As soon you go mining with a t2 barge you get your very slim directly upon you.
The trouble with that is that people are choosing to leave and don't want to deal with it. A high of 35k concurrent players after allowing free accounts says an awful lot, in addition to CCP trying to sell the company
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
The trouble with that is that people are choosing to leave and don't want to deal with it. A high of 35k concurrent players after allowing free accounts says an awful lot, in addition to CCP trying to sell the company
Quite interesting. After making stupid decisions and let the game get sick and more sick, filling up with scum from all over the world, they retreat and let the work, to correct all this, do others.
Distopia said: Game mechanics/tools only go so far as to dictate your likely hood of falling victim to gankers though, wouldn't you agree? You're talking as if the game itself is not player driven in the end, the forgiving nature is largely dictated by the way in which players approach it, run into an "unforgiving" player you're pretty much in for an unforgiving time. Also don't pretend that there are not mechanics and tools used to the benefit of the ganker as well.
I am trying to find a point in your post but I can't see any...sorry.
Saying some mechanics favour this or that playstyle makes no sense - they do not exist alone, seperately but are a part of complex system providing set of instruments that will either protect or endanger you depending on situation and context.
It's not that complicated. Distopia tries to tell you, that you can use a knife to cut bread, or to cut off a ignorants head. And you say: a knife is much more then cutting bread or heads, and pretty complicated, so not easy to see what happens.
Well, your answer is just like politician talking. Distopia is right, and the game mechanics ALLOW griefing, which means not all players do it, but much to much. See just a normal human society. The lesser laws and punishment, the more people go stealing/robbing instead of working. Not all will..but..you guess it..to much to have a good, fair and modern society rather then a pile of crap. Thats what EVE is actually.
The thing is EVE has always been like this, anyone going in and expecting it to somehow be different is in for a rude awakening. I must admit I like EVE because it allows (and even encourages) people to be creative rather than restricted by the rules that developers usually set in place, the downside being shit gets blown up. I also like that you have to keep your wits about you rather than be protected in every aspect of the game like some nanny-state themepark. It most certainly isn't for everyone however, and that's ok.
The thing is EVE has always been like this, anyone going in and expecting it to somehow be different is in for a rude awakening.
Just read the thread, you will find how it was a long time, and it was really different.
@Gdemami, you punish people with LOL in the reaction buttons ? When i look at your profile i see that most reactions from other people you have - more then 600 - are LOLs also. So a person to laugh about is laughing about others. Tbh, you are the first LOL-griefer i meet in here, and i understand that its your nature, thats why you defend griefing in EVE
The thing is EVE has always been like this, anyone going in and expecting it to somehow be different is in for a rude awakening.
Just read the thread, you will find how it was a long time, and it was really different.
Oh I read the thread. There is only one person who makes that claim and how much of that is down to rose-tinted glasses? The game has always been a dog eat dog world.
What people do not understand is that the whole POINT of EVE is "getting shit blown up".
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
If you are not too retarded, there is almost no risk in EVE PvE .... i speak here are as someone that over time has run enough "10/10 sites" and killed enough "Ultima" stations for high end part farming. Which means there would be a lack of money sinks in EVE and the economy would collapse quickly if you take away the "no safe place in EVE" aspect of the game. If you want to know how ugly a game wide economy collapse can get, read a bit about the rise and fall of Star Wars Galaxies.
EVE is different.
EVE is also on the decline ... as any game would be after roughly 15 years.
PvP is not the reason for the decline ... PvP was always the foundation of EVE.
Even griefing is not the reason for the decline. It is just a sign for a bored gamer base.
Personally i think TIME and advances in video game technology are the reasons for the decline.
What people do not understand is that the whole POINT of EVE is "getting shit blown up".
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
If you are not too retarded, there is almost no risk in EVE PvE .... i speak here are as someone that over time has run enough "10/10 sites" and killed enough "Ultima" stations for high end part farming. Which means there would be a lack of money sinks in EVE and the economy would collapse quickly if you take away the "no safe place in EVE" aspect of the game. If you want to know how ugly a game wide economy collapse can get, read a bit about the rise and fall of Star Wars Galaxies.
EVE is different.
EVE is also on the decline ... as any game would be after roughly 15 years.
PvP is not the reason for the decline ... PvP was always the foundation of EVE.
Even griefing is not the reason for the decline. It is just a sign for a bored gamer base.
Personally i think TIME and advances in video game technology are the reasons for the decline.
Time for an EVE 2.0
Have fun
No, time for a PVE server.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
What people do not understand is that the whole POINT of EVE is "getting shit blown up".
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
If you are not too retarded, there is almost no risk in EVE PvE .... i speak here are as someone that over time has run enough "10/10 sites" and killed enough "Ultima" stations for high end part farming. Which means there would be a lack of money sinks in EVE and the economy would collapse quickly if you take away the "no safe place in EVE" aspect of the game. If you want to know how ugly a game wide economy collapse can get, read a bit about the rise and fall of Star Wars Galaxies.
EVE is different.
EVE is also on the decline ... as any game would be after roughly 15 years.
PvP is not the reason for the decline ... PvP was always the foundation of EVE.
Even griefing is not the reason for the decline. It is just a sign for a bored gamer base.
Personally i think TIME and advances in video game technology are the reasons for the decline.
Time for an EVE 2.0
Have fun
No, time for a PVE server.
For the reasons given above ... a PvE server in EVE would collapse.
Just remember the separate EVE Chinese server ... got dominated by a single group ... very much reduced PvP because there was no point in doing PvP anymore ... melted away like an ice cone in the sun. RIP.
What people do not understand is that the whole POINT of EVE is "getting shit blown up".
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
If you are not too retarded, there is almost no risk in EVE PvE .... i speak here are as someone that over time has run enough "10/10 sites" and killed enough "Ultima" stations for high end part farming. Which means there would be a lack of money sinks in EVE and the economy would collapse quickly if you take away the "no safe place in EVE" aspect of the game. If you want to know how ugly a game wide economy collapse can get, read a bit about the rise and fall of Star Wars Galaxies.
EVE is different.
EVE is also on the decline ... as any game would be after roughly 15 years.
PvP is not the reason for the decline ... PvP was always the foundation of EVE.
Even griefing is not the reason for the decline. It is just a sign for a bored gamer base.
Personally i think TIME and advances in video game technology are the reasons for the decline.
Time for an EVE 2.0
Have fun
No, time for a PVE server.
For the reasons given above ... a PvE server in EVE would collapse.
Just remember the separate EVE Chinese server ... got dominated by a single group ... very much reduced PvP because there was no point in doing PvP anymore ... melted away like an ice cone in the sun. RIP.
Have fun
Then Sad to say, Free to play right around the conner and put out on Xbox and PS4.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
It has been years since I played EVE, but I don't remember having much trouble in high sec. Exploring , mining, I rarely got attacked. So what exactly has changed? I also remember that gankers in high sec usually got dealt with by big corps.
What people do not understand is that the whole POINT of EVE is "getting shit blown up".
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
...about as many ships destroyed in PVP gets also destroyed in PVE.
It has been years since I played EVE, but I don't remember having much trouble in high sec. Exploring , mining, I rarely got attacked. So what exactly has changed?
Pretty much nothing...rants comming off the ignorance, disgruntlet vets + Elsabolts yearning for PVE server...usual doom and gloom business as always.
Distopia said: Game mechanics/tools only go so far as to dictate your likely hood of falling victim to gankers though, wouldn't you agree? You're talking as if the game itself is not player driven in the end, the forgiving nature is largely dictated by the way in which players approach it, run into an "unforgiving" player you're pretty much in for an unforgiving time. Also don't pretend that there are not mechanics and tools used to the benefit of the ganker as well.
I am trying to find a point in your post but I can't see any...sorry.
Saying some mechanics favour this or that playstyle makes no sense - they do not exist alone, seperately but are a part of complex system providing set of instruments that will either protect or endanger you depending on situation and context.
My point wasn't hard to understand at all, I was saying that you are mostly left to the whim of the other players in such games, which that's fine, I wasn't saying that was bad. I was just pointing out that those who like to gank can use all of those systems to their advantage as well. Which you seemed to omit in your reply to Kyleran. Your post here isn't saying anything different than I did more or less. Neither the gankee or ganker live in a bubble of safety in EVE.
There is no real bubble of safety in EVE. One of my first experiences in the game was being podded in high sec. That was years and years ago, SO I'd agree that nothing has changed much in that game. Accept the player base as a whole dwindling to some extent in recent years. Which would turn the wolves on to the wolves, which is the nature of such games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Welcome to the new generation of mmo players OP. I also remember how Eve was in those early years and how players had a code of honor about where you pvped in the game. And if someone broke the code you got half the server hunting him down for it. The bounty system was in place just for this. But over the years CCP just let the wolves take over the game and now you have what it is today. You have an ingame option to avoid low sec.space in your map and back then you could play the game in completely safe space. But now there is no where safe. Its to bad CCP let the game get to this point.
No. That was not how it was. Sorry. That is just wrong. I got ganked in Empire the first time back in the summer of 2003. Same shit back then as now.
m0o was famous for their gank setups in and out of empire. They had no code. That is just bullshit. You kille dpeople when you could, bakc then, and still do today. FA, SA, BOB, Goons, RA. The only honor was about how much meta you brought to the table. Was it OK, to crash a node? Was it OK to influence GM's?
Kills ahve always been kills in EVE. Stop the rose tinted "good ol' days" crap. It just isn't true.
I started playing in an early beta until summer of 2008 when I left. Like the OP described, there used to be something for everyone. If you didn't want to PVP, you didn't have to as long as you stayed in .5 or above. Unless of course you were in a corp that was at war.
That slowly started changing when they altered a couple popular routes to make you go through .4 or lower space and relocated some popular ore for mining to lower sec space. When that didn't work, they changed some of the mechanics of the game which made ganking much easier in .5 or above. That is the point that I hung it up. I loved PVP in eve, but I saw the writing on the wall of where this game was going.
Don't worry about it OP. They aren't going to change and will continue to bleed players as older ones move on and getting new players to stay for an reasonable length of time isn't working out very well.
It's still a great game and I think everyone should at least give it a try. You never know, you might find yourself enjoying this type of game.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Comments
Saying some mechanics favour this or that playstyle makes no sense - they do not exist alone, seperately but are a part of complex system providing set of instruments that will either protect or endanger you depending on situation and context.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-09/eve-online-owners-said-to-weigh-game-maker-sale-after-approaches
Quite interesting. After making stupid decisions and let the game get sick and more sick, filling up with scum from all over the world, they retreat and let the work, to correct all this, do others.
And you say: a knife is much more then cutting bread or heads, and pretty complicated, so not easy to see what happens.
Well, your answer is just like politician talking. Distopia is right, and the game mechanics ALLOW griefing, which means not all players do it, but much to much.
See just a normal human society. The lesser laws and punishment, the more people go stealing/robbing instead of working. Not all will..but..you guess it..to much to have a good, fair and modern society rather then a pile of crap.
Thats what EVE is actually.
I must admit I like EVE because it allows (and even encourages) people to be creative rather than restricted by the rules that developers usually set in place, the downside being shit gets blown up. I also like that you have to keep your wits about you rather than be protected in every aspect of the game like some nanny-state themepark.
It most certainly isn't for everyone however, and that's ok.
@Gdemami, you punish people with LOL in the reaction buttons ? When i look at your profile i see that most reactions from other people you have - more then 600 - are LOLs also. So a person to laugh about is laughing about others. Tbh, you are the first LOL-griefer i meet in here, and i understand that its your nature, thats why you defend griefing in EVE
Oh I read the thread. There is only one person who makes that claim and how much of that is down to rose-tinted glasses? The game has always been a dog eat dog world.
The demand for replacement ships and parts drives mining, drives exploration, drives building, drives trading, drives logistics, drives research. Without PvP there would be no reason do to most of that.
If you are not too retarded, there is almost no risk in EVE PvE .... i speak here are as someone that over time has run enough "10/10 sites" and killed enough "Ultima" stations for high end part farming. Which means there would be a lack of money sinks in EVE and the economy would collapse quickly if you take away the "no safe place in EVE" aspect of the game. If you want to know how ugly a game wide economy collapse can get, read a bit about the rise and fall of Star Wars Galaxies.
EVE is different.
EVE is also on the decline ... as any game would be after roughly 15 years.
PvP is not the reason for the decline ... PvP was always the foundation of EVE.
Even griefing is not the reason for the decline. It is just a sign for a bored gamer base.
Personally i think TIME and advances in video game technology are the reasons for the decline.
Time for an EVE 2.0
Have fun
No, time for a PVE server.
MAGA
Just remember the separate EVE Chinese server ... got dominated by a single group ... very much reduced PvP because there was no point in doing PvP anymore ... melted away like an ice cone in the sun. RIP.
Have fun
Then Sad to say, Free to play right around the conner and put out on Xbox and PS4.
MAGA
I also remember that gankers in high sec usually got dealt with by big corps.
There is no real bubble of safety in EVE. One of my first experiences in the game was being podded in high sec. That was years and years ago, SO I'd agree that nothing has changed much in that game. Accept the player base as a whole dwindling to some extent in recent years. Which would turn the wolves on to the wolves, which is the nature of such games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
m0o was famous for their gank setups in and out of empire. They had no code. That is just bullshit. You kille dpeople when you could, bakc then, and still do today. FA, SA, BOB, Goons, RA. The only honor was about how much meta you brought to the table. Was it OK, to crash a node? Was it OK to influence GM's?
Kills ahve always been kills in EVE. Stop the rose tinted "good ol' days" crap. It just isn't true.
That slowly started changing when they altered a couple popular routes to make you go through .4 or lower space and relocated some popular ore for mining to lower sec space. When that didn't work, they changed some of the mechanics of the game which made ganking much easier in .5 or above. That is the point that I hung it up. I loved PVP in eve, but I saw the writing on the wall of where this game was going.
Don't worry about it OP. They aren't going to change and will continue to bleed players as older ones move on and getting new players to stay for an reasonable length of time isn't working out very well.
It's still a great game and I think everyone should at least give it a try. You never know, you might find yourself enjoying this type of game.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Its almost 15 years old.
Most other games die sooner. Many Asian/Korean games do not even survive two years.
Have fun