I'm kinda of confused, I thought we might have seen some inside info about the game, content or something, but the only reason it's good for the genre is it will make more money than Destiny 1? What?
Feel there's bit overhype, which you're more than welcome to have, but I can't get behind it. Might be wrong, but this just says to me, "it's coming to PC, we have no idea if the games good or better, but throw money at it, PC yay"
3 player groups, 6 player raids and 12 player pvp.
How is that a MMO?
so it has to be 5 player groups and 10 player raids to qualify as a mmo ?
For it to be an mmo a single space has to be able to support massive amount of player characters, by massive meaning hundreds especially in PvE/PvP open world zones even if the other players are not on your screen and are wondering around somewhere else on the map.
If people realized what this company has done on multiple occasions against the norm you'd be saying things differently.
First the publisher decided that if you bought one license for previous consoles it would no longer be transferable to nextgen.
Second they released an expansion that was restricted from all sharing, which is a bad thing and here's how. There were already abuse preventions in place that would prevent players from both being able to use the game license at the same time in license sharing, they didn't need to get ugly about it.
Third, when they released the Rise of Iron they decided to not release a full version including all of the DLCs up to that point, they took away the DLCs as separate individual price points and made everyone buy both the DLC for Rise of Iron as well as a new 2 DLC only full version of the game for $39. This meant that you spent another $110 if you wanted to play a game that you already spend $60 on in the beginning.
So let's review. Are policies like these really REALLY good for the mmo genre?
3 player groups, 6 player raids and 12 player pvp.
How is that a MMO?
so it has to be 5 player groups and 10 player raids to qualify as a mmo ?
Well we had 64 player maps in Call of Duty and nobody would call that a MMO. I guess people just can't tell the difference between multiplayer and massively multiplayer.
I wouldn't really call it a mmo either but lets face it, most mmos have gone the route of primarily single player quest line, group dungeons, 3-6 players, raids somewhere around 10ish. The list of games where the primary focus is group dungeons, large scale raids, group developed quest lines are slim to none. Sadly most MMOs operate the same way destiny does, just most are not shooters, story was just as lacking as most MMOs. So by todays standards based on what the majority of gamers wanted, destiny is a MMO.
Is Bungie ready for the hackfest that is PC FPS? That will be as important as whether the game is fun to play. A fun game can be ruined by hacks and cheats.
One of the (many) ways The Division shot itself in the foot was releasing on PC. Massive/Ubi was clearly not prepared for the inevitable hackfest nor the damage to the brand it caused. I suspect Bungie will come to regret deciding to release on PC for many of the same reasons.
That issue aside, I've had a somewhat love/hate relationship with Destiny from the start. Some things it does incredibly well -- movement and gunplay especially -- others it does horribly -- story, what there is of it that hasn't been forgotten or handwaved into oblivion (The Stranger, anyone?). For better or ill my friends are addicted to Destiny, so I've played it from launch to now and will probably end up getting Destiny 2 -- though frankly I thought the launch trailer was utter shite.
I do think Destiny is closer to GW1 than a "true" MMO, but I also think that to most of the gaming market that distinction is pretty irrelevant. Do I see tons of people in an Old Russia Zone or when I visit The Reef? Nah, but I do see other people and there's generally a few people around to help with public events, so do I really care if it's ten or ten thousand?
Nah, not really.
What Destiny really lacks that most MMOs have is downtime activities. No crafting (at least in any meaningful sense), no playing the AH, no fishing, Pokemon mini-games, housing, or, well, anything. You can go kill things or... Ummm, kick around the two balls in the tower? Try and push people off the edge in The Reef? Sit in the fire in The Iron Temple and hope someone tosses a coin in? There's SRL, I suppose, maybe it's just me but I found that shallow as hell and didn't bother with it for long. There's the various holiday events, such as they are, but mostly those have been excuses to sell random loot bags more than anything else. Destiny has some of the most ho-hum holiday events I've ever seen.
I dunno, I just think a game with MMO-like (or even -lite) aspirations should have some actual downtime activities. Even The Division has crafting (such as it is) and game modes (survival) that add up to a little (albeit very little) more than "Go here and kill this".
Bill, I trust you ever since you gave me my warmonger title at NYC comicon years ago (then took it back with the new site ) anyway, is this game going to have a pvp aspect for open world players or will it be destroyed by a karma system that makes it unplayable for owpvp players like BDO? Or is it just zones for pvp, or no pvp?
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Destiny 1 has arena PvP only. For reasons that escape me, it's extremely popular.
I would be amazed if Destiny 2 did things any differently.
That's what I'm wondering when I hear talk of, "mmo." Will this game now have open world pvp, if so...I'm so all freaking in, the warmonger will return for Bill!
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Destiny 1 has arena PvP only. For reasons that escape me, it's extremely popular.
I would be amazed if Destiny 2 did things any differently.
That's what I'm wondering when I hear talk of, "mmo." Will this game now have open world pvp, if so...I'm so all freaking in, the warmonger will return for Bill!
If people realized what this company has done on multiple occasions against the norm you'd be saying things differently.
First the publisher decided that if you bought one license for previous consoles it would no longer be transferable to nextgen.
Second they released an expansion that was restricted from all sharing, which is a bad thing and here's how. There were already abuse preventions in place that would prevent players from both being able to use the game license at the same time in license sharing, they didn't need to get ugly about it.
Third, when they released the Rise of Iron they decided to not release a full version including all of the DLCs up to that point, they took away the DLCs as separate individual price points and made everyone buy both the DLC for Rise of Iron as well as a new 2 DLC only full version of the game for $39. This meant that you spent another $110 if you wanted to play a game that you already spend $60 on in the beginning.
So let's review. Are policies like these really REALLY good for the mmo genre?
What do you want? Would you rather have cash shops? Me, I want content, I don't want a shopping mall. IMHO A business model that makes it money from selling gameplay is much better than one that makes its money selling pixel pants.
I'm normally a PC gamer and just discovered Destiny a few months ago. Whatever you call it, MMOFPS, ARPGFPS or whatever, one thing to me is really clear. PC gamers have really missed out on a very solid and unique experience. A mix of some sorts between Diablo and MMO's featuring the awesome combat and gameplay of the Halo series.
So yeah if you insist any game that deviates more then a little bit from classic Everquest 1 should be burned at the stake you may not like Destiny 2 coming to PC, but everyone else should smile and rejoice, because you are about the discover the joys of being a guardian!
Destiny has the potential to become one of the greatest, I think there were mistakes in 1 made, hopefully that's why instead of launching a massive expansion, they decided to launch an entirely new game, launching on pc makes the mmo part more relevant and a triple a mom fps with massive upside is definitely good for the genre. A word of caution though, if it flops it can be devastating to the genre
So we will curb the many complaints about Destiny 1 and hide that behind an argument weather it is mmo or not?
There is a LOT that goes into game design,it takes a LOT of work to make it really good,so i am not about to start praising any developer until i see what they can do.
To lay claim Destiny 2 is good for the industry before it is even out is like saying Wow was good for the industry even though it kickstarted nothing but clone after clone after clone.
It takes a lot of effort to make a game, a JOURNEY,to create lots of systems and scripts the entire way.
So let's WAIT and see if they can build a game as good as they advertise.
Complaints about Destiny 1 are mainly about the original game as it was launched. With the many expansions and patches, particularly the taken king, I'd argue the game had a FF14 style turnaround.
Not to say it's perfect but it's certainly easily the best online shooter ever.
Is it an MMO? Propbably not though it often feels like an mmo when you meet strangers in your adventuring or when you're doing raids with your clan. In many ways it's a mix of an ARPG like Diablo, the Halo series and a dash of MMO here and there.
I'm normally a PC gamer and just discovered Destiny a few months ago. Whatever you call it, MMOFPS, ARPGFPS or whatever, one thing to me is really clear. PC gamers have really missed out on a very solid and unique experience. A mix of some sorts between Diablo and MMO's featuring the awesome combat and gameplay of the Halo series.
So yeah if you insist any game that deviates more then a little bit from classic Everquest 1 should be burned at the stake you may not like Destiny 2 coming to PC, but everyone else should smile and rejoice, because you are about the discover the joys of being a guardian!
My little brother loved Destiny and he's really stoked for Destiny 2. We live pretty far apart so I might get this game to spend more time with him. He swears by Destiny, so I'm going to give it a shot (pun intended).
The phrase "massively multiplayer" in that definition is defined as "interacting with a large number of players". That is clearly defined according to Random House. That happens in the hubs in the case of Destiny and GW.
The anecdotal examples you provide in the body of your post don't contradict that definition even if you choose to imply those numbers mean something else.
You haven't proven or more importantly disproven the premise that the definition clearly defines massively multiplayer clearly.
masterful stroke of "Blackwhite"
Ignore the clear examples of almost every game in the genre created in the first 10 years or more of it's history and point to a model first made popular in 2005 by GW1 who's creators clearly labeled it a CORPG because they understood what they had built with their "lobby" game.
Nothing anecdotal about the evidence in any way.
I'm not saying Destiny is or is not an MMO, BUT @Torval has a valid point, too. Also, if we're being fair, I'm not even sure how many players are supported in modern MMOs. Aren't games like ESO, WS, WoW, etc. broken down into instances, zones, shards, etc. all convening in hubs? I could be wrong, that's an actual literal question.
From a philosophical question, If Destiny said they supported 1000 players per zone and then load balanced their servers to never put more than 16 per zone, would that make them an MMO? I think it's more than players supported too.
Zones are persistent and shared by all gamers, instances are solo / group only, reducing the MMO to MO. The massively multiple player to player interaction in a virtual world is greatly reduced in a game with one persistent hub and instances for the rest of the content. The differences in gameplay and player experience of the virtual environment between a game like GW1 and Destiny versus WoW or EQ are vast.
I don't want games like Destiny to be painted as the new kind of MMO as that diminishes the meaning of the term as well as sets a precedent to the industry to stop catering to the true MMO audience.
What do you want? Would you rather have cash shops? Me, I want content, I don't want a shopping mall. IMHO A business model that makes it money from selling gameplay is much better than one that makes its money selling pixel pants.
Destiny 1 has a cash shop called "Eververse".
While certainly not as badly handled as many games, Destiny's in-game "events" have tended to turn into little more than an attempt to sell random loot boxes and, frankly the existence of a cash shop in a game that charged for DLC that, at least for the first couple, were little more than patches attempting to fix the lack of content and terrible loot systems (which, to be fair, they did improve greatly over time), was more than a tad insulting to the playerbase.
Presumably Destiny 2 will have a cash shop as well.
Comments
First the publisher decided that if you bought one license for previous consoles it would no longer be transferable to nextgen.
Second they released an expansion that was restricted from all sharing, which is a bad thing and here's how. There were already abuse preventions in place that would prevent players from both being able to use the game license at the same time in license sharing, they didn't need to get ugly about it.
Third, when they released the Rise of Iron they decided to not release a full version including all of the DLCs up to that point, they took away the DLCs as separate individual price points and made everyone buy both the DLC for Rise of Iron as well as a new 2 DLC only full version of the game for $39. This meant that you spent another $110 if you wanted to play a game that you already spend $60 on in the beginning.
So let's review. Are policies like these really REALLY good for the mmo genre?
Honestly solitaire is probably an MMO to some people.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I wouldn't really call it a mmo either but lets face it, most mmos have gone the route of primarily single player quest line, group dungeons, 3-6 players, raids somewhere around 10ish. The list of games where the primary focus is group dungeons, large scale raids, group developed quest lines are slim to none. Sadly most MMOs operate the same way destiny does, just most are not shooters, story was just as lacking as most MMOs. So by todays standards based on what the majority of gamers wanted, destiny is a MMO.
That issue aside, I've had a somewhat love/hate relationship with Destiny from the start. Some things it does incredibly well -- movement and gunplay especially -- others it does horribly -- story, what there is of it that hasn't been forgotten or handwaved into oblivion (The Stranger, anyone?). For better or ill my friends are addicted to Destiny, so I've played it from launch to now and will probably end up getting Destiny 2 -- though frankly I thought the launch trailer was utter shite.
I do think Destiny is closer to GW1 than a "true" MMO, but I also think that to most of the gaming market that distinction is pretty irrelevant. Do I see tons of people in an Old Russia Zone or when I visit The Reef? Nah, but I do see other people and there's generally a few people around to help with public events, so do I really care if it's ten or ten thousand?
Nah, not really.
What Destiny really lacks that most MMOs have is downtime activities. No crafting (at least in any meaningful sense), no playing the AH, no fishing, Pokemon mini-games, housing, or, well, anything. You can go kill things or... Ummm, kick around the two balls in the tower? Try and push people off the edge in The Reef? Sit in the fire in The Iron Temple and hope someone tosses a coin in? There's SRL, I suppose, maybe it's just me but I found that shallow as hell and didn't bother with it for long. There's the various holiday events, such as they are, but mostly those have been excuses to sell random loot bags more than anything else. Destiny has some of the most ho-hum holiday events I've ever seen.
I dunno, I just think a game with MMO-like (or even -lite) aspirations should have some actual downtime activities. Even The Division has crafting (such as it is) and game modes (survival) that add up to a little (albeit very little) more than "Go here and kill this".
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
See above message from me lol
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I would be amazed if Destiny 2 did things any differently.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Besides Dark Fall?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
So yeah if you insist any game that deviates more then a little bit from classic Everquest 1 should be burned at the stake you may not like Destiny 2 coming to PC, but everyone else should smile and rejoice, because you are about the discover the joys of being a guardian!
Complaints about Destiny 1 are mainly about the original game as it was launched. With the many expansions and patches, particularly the taken king, I'd argue the game had a FF14 style turnaround.
Not to say it's perfect but it's certainly easily the best online shooter ever.
Is it an MMO? Propbably not though it often feels like an mmo when you meet strangers in your adventuring or when you're doing raids with your clan. In many ways it's a mix of an ARPG like Diablo, the Halo series and a dash of MMO here and there.
My little brother loved Destiny and he's really stoked for Destiny 2. We live pretty far apart so I might get this game to spend more time with him. He swears by Destiny, so I'm going to give it a shot (pun intended).
Zones are persistent and shared by all gamers, instances are solo / group only, reducing the MMO to MO. The massively multiple player to player interaction in a virtual world is greatly reduced in a game with one persistent hub and instances for the rest of the content. The differences in gameplay and player experience of the virtual environment between a game like GW1 and Destiny versus WoW or EQ are vast.
I don't want games like Destiny to be painted as the new kind of MMO as that diminishes the meaning of the term as well as sets a precedent to the industry to stop catering to the true MMO audience.
While certainly not as badly handled as many games, Destiny's in-game "events" have tended to turn into little more than an attempt to sell random loot boxes and, frankly the existence of a cash shop in a game that charged for DLC that, at least for the first couple, were little more than patches attempting to fix the lack of content and terrible loot systems (which, to be fair, they did improve greatly over time), was more than a tad insulting to the playerbase.
Presumably Destiny 2 will have a cash shop as well.