I have to agree with what alot of people have said on here. I have not played a mmorpg since Everquest but do recall that most of my memorable player interations were when you were just mob killing.
I also play the PNP game and would hate for there to not be at least transitional zones between quest areas. I like the idea of being able to move freely within the world and perhaps stumble on a quest, rather than being handed them out on a platter. Questing is obviously very important in PNP but as for online, I think they need to make sure they are offering the right things for what the gamers need. In FPS you have a couple of groups, those who enjoy the co-op and assault tyle "capture the flag" maps, and those who like the all on all style. Same goes for mmorpg's, some enjoy solo'ing around the place, it would be a shame if they missed this element out of it all together. For those of you who do play FPS think back, I recall that at our LAN's we usually mix up the co-op and the all on all, just like our RTS games we mix up co-op and all on all. For DDO to specialise only in co-op could see alot of people, including myself, losing interest in it within only a few weeks.
I am probably like a large number of people out there just waiting to get back onto a MMORPG, with so many to choose from I can perhaps see why DDO may be focused at a niche in the market, but is that focal point enough to sustain an online community?
lol.. no crafting, no pvp... taking out all the thngs that people like?
Sorry friend... but many people despise crafting (like myself... i don't care if I ever craft another item again) and many people don't like pvp (I personally like it but I know people who play pvp games for other reasons "other" than pvp AND they avoid the pvp at all costs).
It seems to me that they really are trying to make this an online representation of D&D.
Though every person's D&D experience is different due to the many ways to create campaigns, I don't ever remember telling a friend "hey... break out the D&D rules so I can just kill one monster over and over again for xp".
Or... "hey, break out the D&D rules so I can wander the world and accumulate 5000 mats so I can make a sword.
Or... "hey, break out the D&D rules so I can fight my brother's character.
People played D&D for the quests. If you look at the games, Baldur's Gate or Temple of Elemental Evil, you didn't grind or gather mats. You followed the storyline.
though I do think that grinding is relaxing, I get the sense that this will truly be D&D online. You will play a D&D game and get to make parties with other people.
Whether or not the game will have enough quests to make it worth your time... well.. we will see. I personally aplaud their efforts to make this game different from other online games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by CmdrRicK sounds nice, but grinding quests instead of mobs become lvl 20 and then? what do you do if you completed all quests?
Well... we shall see won't we?
Otherwise what you are saying is that the only thing that is really considered standard gameplay is grinding. Now... I actually like some grind. But I'm open to the idea of new types of gameplay.
And who is to say that one can reach lvl 20 in a month?
Also... suppose each quest had alternate endings or parts that did change with each time you did it?
I'm afraid there is no answer to this excpet a "wait and see" stance.
So... let's wait and see.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All I know is they tried this in AC2 at start where you needed to group and use vaults to really level up. As time went on they seen the error of their ways and started putting more solo stuff in. I see DDO to end up being just another AC2 type game but with no KvK (PvP) at all. Worse yet no crafting, just don't see even the hardcore DnD player to stick with it.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
I agree DDO will more likely rely on the casual gamer as a fanbase. And also me if it looks and plays good enough. I don't see D&D fans digging an instanced MMO with no crafting.
Not everyone likes crafting and quite frankly that has nothing to do with creating great characters or heroes.
In Guildwars the "crafting" per se is probably the best I've seen since I don't have to spend an innordinate amount of time finding mats.
Doing away with crafting would be the best thing a game has ever done.
I don't recall anywhere in The Lord of The Rings where our heroes stop to craft.
Do you want to gather thousands of mats by grinding out mobs or do you want to save the princess, defeat the dragon, stop the Wizard from opening an abyssal Gate, stay the onslaught of the oncoming foe?
Remember... these types of games are about adventure.
Unfortunately, when these online games came about, all sorts of gameplay devices were instituted to keep people playing.
Repetitive grind was one.
That is not to say that there aren't people who like to craft... but would you rather craft or wrest the Demon Sword from the hand of your foe?
I see crafting as just busy work to keep people playing.
Let's have real adventure folks. If not in D&D then another game perhaps. But let's not be satisfied with mediocrity when we can strive for something new and good.
And though I like PvP, again.. bold statements indicating that hardcore D&D players won't stay because there is no PvP. PvP was never part of D&D (though perhaps Dungeon Masters put some in along the way... I never knew of any)
D&D is about small groups doing adventures. that is not to say that it can't evolve a bit, but since this game is striving to capture that pen and paper feel, I believe that that should be the expectation.
however.. I do agree that this game will probably cater more to the casual player. I have yet to see an online game that, after a recent release, is touted by the hardcore players as catering to their tastes.
Someone always makes the post that there isn't enough content and the game sucks. You can't win against that.
Instead, the game companies stating their intentions at the outset will only strenghen their position and stay off the criticisms of the players who want the game to be what "they" want.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
dont get me wrong I still believe it could become a great game and I really want to play it (even in beta stage) but I still wonder what we do in the end
any idea what the "end-game" will be?
will there be ways to socialize like taverns where you go for a drink with your friends or even housing maybe your own mage-tower?
It is my idea that they aren't taking this into account at the moment as in D&D there really isn't an end game.
However... games like guildwars don't have a tangible endgame (at least there are people complaining about it) and even games like EQ2 or WoW have their detractors regarding endgame (more complaints.. always the complaints).
Perhaps the question is.. what do you all think the endgame should be? Taverns and the like will only appeal to some players... there are always more hardcore players or grind players who won't care about such things.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
End Game: Exactly the same as the game that lead you there, just harder, more challenging, slower to progress. So expect to group in the End Game if you want the +5 Vorpal Glaive(Or Holy Axiomatic Flaming Burst Bane(dragons) +5 Glaive), and expect it to be hard to acquire...and I dont even start to think about artefacts.
However, after level 10(maybe even at level 3 or 4) it will be End Game prolly, and extremely hard to progress, I just dont know how they intent to make it hard, but it would be a suicide to make it easy. Everyone want it to mean something to level up, it is not like we have that many levels to earn, so making it quite hard and long to progress only make it logical, raising from level 1 to 12 should take a year if you want to keep the D&D spirit and feeling.
So to epic levels...I dont even want to think about how hard and long it would be.
But again, I dunno, maybe it will be a game you are done in 2 weeks(I honestly hope it wont be the case and that I will be able to dump 80h a week into the game, even if I cant play a character more then 10 hours a week or whatever).
See, End Game need to be a logical progression of what lead you there, putting PvP or Raiding or whatever nonsense that is not grouping is not End Game, it is lame game! All hails to a possible ''real End Game''!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They said that there would be a constant progression in leveling so dont guess it will take much longer than 2-3 month for hardcore players to get to lvl 20. There are people really playing 24/7 and that is what differs a persistant online world from pen & paper where you meet your friends and play once a week.
I just hope that the path turbine opened for this game was the right one.
Originally posted by Anofalye not rogues, soon he will propose that rogues should be allowed to specialised in weapons as well, ROFL even clerics have better DPS then rogues in D&D as far as melee damage goes, and clerics can tank.
Actually, a well built rogue has a higher meele/ranged damage than the cleric, feint/sneak attack will kill you quickly, same as hide/sneak attack from range.
And what do you mean by being allowed to specialise in weapons? the weapon specialization feat is only allowed for PC ith at least 4 lvls of fighter. Any one can get the weapon focus feat, and a rogue will probably use a rapier with weapon finesse. Heck the rogue character should just put in 4 lvls. of fighter for the specialization...
On the crafting note, in PnP most item worth crafting took forever to make, most DMs wont let you sit around for a month making checks to see if you make progress and such, and magic items carry exp cost to make, not to mention that a weapon/armor must be crafted by a character with at least 3 times the weapon´s/armor´s enhancment value in spellcasting levels, so that al lvl. 20, a pure spellcaster would only be able to make +6 weapons/armor while being able to find +10 or above (artifacts).
I won't be buying this one I am a huge D&D fan been playing since the red boxed edition. Particularly liked the 2nd AD&D setting and played that for years. But I don't like the Turbine approach the are cutting like 45% of the game out at launch. Between all of the races they're leaving out and the classes they are leaving out feats, why bother, is my opinion. This game is no where near what the DnD the pnp players I know want to play, and in my opinion that says allot. If my friends aren't excited to play a game they have waited years to be made, then I will be group less in a forced grouping game.
Personaly, I'm not crazy about PVP but at the same time it don't bother me if they had PvP in the game. Long as it's not free for all. I like to wander and do my thing without getting ganked around every corner.
Crafting. I think they are making a huge mistake by not having it. And really I see no reason not to have it. Crafting in D&D rules don't hurt your advancement really. Only thing is, when you're high enough lvl to get a new feat you chose creation feat or a feat to benefit your class or a general feat. If you chose creation feat you can still be out there killing mobs or questing with your group and keeping up with them. Creation items do have an xp cost, thats the players choice when he pickes a creation feat. The time it takes to craft an item in D&D of course can not be used in an online game. Like they said in the Q&A about leveling your character, it's a more persistant style of gaming. SO the crafting time would have to be much shorter. Plus this would add to a games market that should be. All I'm saying is, the D&D rules could be followed for crafting and with little tweeking..cept for the mechanics of it. You don't have to craft if you don't want to, like in *most* online games.
Questing. I can't believe they think group questing is the only style of D&D! That blowes my mind! Unless, there is questing outsdoors, inside a town,city or villiage. The impresion I got the questing they talking about is all underground. I have a feeling they are making another Guild Wars with underground quests. Guild Wars was fun for about 1 week.
Solo. Ok I understand D&D is about groups adventuring together..but, this is a persistant online game with people playing different times and some for limited hours. This game is by no means for a casual player..not even close! Problem why I left EQ, need a group to get anything done which takes hours to get 1 decent loot item. PLayed CoH. LOved the game! I can solo if I wanted to right to the end game. I can group if I wanted to and get faster xp and kill the mobs that require groups. Had the freedomg to run around. Those are general reasons why some people left some games and play others. I think i'm not alone in this. Plus, I believe forced grouping takes away the freedom people feel in online games.
There is so much more I like to say but I'm not gonna..not yet anyway:)
Well, I hope i'm wrong about some things and give the devs something to think about with other things.
I can't freakin wait for this to come out! I been a fan of D&D since 1982 and I still DM an 8 year campaign..of course the characaters have been rerolled many times:)
Originally posted by -Jaguar- Wow, no crafting, no PvP, advancement only through quests... Turbine is sure trying to be different by taking out all the things people like.
D&D never really had crafting nor did it have PVP It was always about questing
Evidently you've never played AD&D or you'd know that.
That said... pure questing does not translate well to an MMO... I've got a bad feeling this one isn't going to do well. Which is a shame... I love D&D and have played the P&P game since the 70's.
Veteran of nearly 25 years of table top RPGs here, including having put in 10 years of owning/managing a comic/game store which allowed me to sponsor many a group in my back room gaming area, and I have to totally disagree with you. Normally I wouldn't say anything, but the tone of "evidently you've n ever played AD&D or you'd know that" demanded I say something. For these past 25 years I have been a GM of a broad variety of table top games, and there has not been a single campaign I've run, or participated in as a player, that was nothing but a chain of quests. Granted, the unimaginative GMs who did nothing more than purchase modules and run them with straight text, yes, that's all there was. But the vast majority of table top games are stories that center around the characters, what their interests are, the dymamics of enemies and allies tugging at them, and the development of their lives within the backdrop of the campaign world they're playing in.
I don't expect a MMOG to be able to measure up to the richness and depth that a table top game typically has. But I do expect to be able to do more than just run from one instance to the next, and to so cavalierly dismiss the concern that many share that this game will be just another version of Guild Wars with a "evidently you've never..." is not only arrogant in the extreme, it's also woefully inaccurate. I'd say that your expierences in playing AD&D have been extremely limited, if all you ever did was quests of go to dungeon, beat up monsters, walk off with treasure chests.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Well, glad to see a company take out crafting. Most people just ignore that aspect. Others macro through it. However, I'm skeptical to see how a player with no friends that play MMOs would fare in this game. It sounds like you need to have some RL friends who play.
Originally posted by Sovrath I think you hit the nail on the head cmdrRick what will the "end game be"? It is my idea that they aren't taking this into account at the moment as in D&D there really isn't an end game. However... games like guildwars don't have a tangible endgame (at least there are people complaining about it) and even games like EQ2 or WoW have their detractors regarding endgame (more complaints.. always the complaints). Perhaps the question is.. what do you all think the endgame should be? Taverns and the like will only appeal to some players... there are always more hardcore players or grind players who won't care about such things.
I hope the end game is something to do with Planar Travel. Old 1st edition ended with travelling to Lolth's Abyssal Lair. At high levels when playing PnP D&D, we did a lot of planar travel. Planescape was a real good campagin as well.
Comments
I have to agree with what alot of people have said on here. I have not played a mmorpg since Everquest but do recall that most of my memorable player interations were when you were just mob killing.
I also play the PNP game and would hate for there to not be at least transitional zones between quest areas. I like the idea of being able to move freely within the world and perhaps stumble on a quest, rather than being handed them out on a platter. Questing is obviously very important in PNP but as for online, I think they need to make sure they are offering the right things for what the gamers need. In FPS you have a couple of groups, those who enjoy the co-op and assault tyle "capture the flag" maps, and those who like the all on all style. Same goes for mmorpg's, some enjoy solo'ing around the place, it would be a shame if they missed this element out of it all together. For those of you who do play FPS think back, I recall that at our LAN's we usually mix up the co-op and the all on all, just like our RTS games we mix up co-op and all on all. For DDO to specialise only in co-op could see alot of people, including myself, losing interest in it within only a few weeks.
I am probably like a large number of people out there just waiting to get back onto a MMORPG, with so many to choose from I can perhaps see why DDO may be focused at a niche in the market, but is that focal point enough to sustain an online community?
lol.. no crafting, no pvp... taking out all the thngs that people like?
Sorry friend... but many people despise crafting (like myself... i don't care if I ever craft another item again) and many people don't like pvp (I personally like it but I know people who play pvp games for other reasons "other" than pvp AND they avoid the pvp at all costs).
It seems to me that they really are trying to make this an online representation of D&D.
Though every person's D&D experience is different due to the many ways to create campaigns, I don't ever remember telling a friend "hey... break out the D&D rules so I can just kill one monster over and over again for xp".
Or... "hey, break out the D&D rules so I can wander the world and accumulate 5000 mats so I can make a sword.
Or... "hey, break out the D&D rules so I can fight my brother's character.
People played D&D for the quests. If you look at the games, Baldur's Gate or Temple of Elemental Evil, you didn't grind or gather mats. You followed the storyline.
though I do think that grinding is relaxing, I get the sense that this will truly be D&D online. You will play a D&D game and get to make parties with other people.
Whether or not the game will have enough quests to make it worth your time... well.. we will see. I personally aplaud their efforts to make this game different from other online games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
sounds nice, but
grinding quests instead of mobs
become lvl 20
and then? what do you do if you completed all quests?
Well... we shall see won't we?
Otherwise what you are saying is that the only thing that is really considered standard gameplay is grinding. Now... I actually like some grind. But I'm open to the idea of new types of gameplay.
And who is to say that one can reach lvl 20 in a month?
Also... suppose each quest had alternate endings or parts that did change with each time you did it?
I'm afraid there is no answer to this excpet a "wait and see" stance.
So... let's wait and see.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Whoa, whoa whoa....
Let's just take a step back...
Crafting...
Not everyone likes crafting and quite frankly that has nothing to do with creating great characters or heroes.
In Guildwars the "crafting" per se is probably the best I've seen since I don't have to spend an innordinate amount of time finding mats.
Doing away with crafting would be the best thing a game has ever done.
I don't recall anywhere in The Lord of The Rings where our heroes stop to craft.
Do you want to gather thousands of mats by grinding out mobs or do you want to save the princess, defeat the dragon, stop the Wizard from opening an abyssal Gate, stay the onslaught of the oncoming foe?
Remember... these types of games are about adventure.
Unfortunately, when these online games came about, all sorts of gameplay devices were instituted to keep people playing.
Repetitive grind was one.
That is not to say that there aren't people who like to craft... but would you rather craft or wrest the Demon Sword from the hand of your foe?
I see crafting as just busy work to keep people playing.
Let's have real adventure folks. If not in D&D then another game perhaps. But let's not be satisfied with mediocrity when we can strive for something new and good.
And though I like PvP, again.. bold statements indicating that hardcore D&D players won't stay because there is no PvP. PvP was never part of D&D (though perhaps Dungeon Masters put some in along the way... I never knew of any)
D&D is about small groups doing adventures. that is not to say that it can't evolve a bit, but since this game is striving to capture that pen and paper feel, I believe that that should be the expectation.
however.. I do agree that this game will probably cater more to the casual player. I have yet to see an online game that, after a recent release, is touted by the hardcore players as catering to their tastes.
Someone always makes the post that there isn't enough content and the game sucks. You can't win against that.
Instead, the game companies stating their intentions at the outset will only strenghen their position and stay off the criticisms of the players who want the game to be what "they" want.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
dont get me wrong I still believe it could become a great game and I really want to play it (even in beta stage) but I still wonder what we do in the end
any idea what the "end-game" will be?
will there be ways to socialize like taverns where you go for a drink with your friends or even housing maybe your own mage-tower?
I think you hit the nail on the head cmdrRick
what will the "end game be"?
It is my idea that they aren't taking this into account at the moment as in D&D there really isn't an end game.
However... games like guildwars don't have a tangible endgame (at least there are people complaining about it) and even games like EQ2 or WoW have their detractors regarding endgame (more complaints.. always the complaints).
Perhaps the question is.. what do you all think the endgame should be? Taverns and the like will only appeal to some players... there are always more hardcore players or grind players who won't care about such things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
End Game: Exactly the same as the game that lead you there, just harder, more challenging, slower to progress. So expect to group in the End Game if you want the +5 Vorpal Glaive(Or Holy Axiomatic Flaming Burst Bane(dragons) +5 Glaive), and expect it to be hard to acquire...and I dont even start to think about artefacts.
However, after level 10(maybe even at level 3 or 4) it will be End Game prolly, and extremely hard to progress, I just dont know how they intent to make it hard, but it would be a suicide to make it easy. Everyone want it to mean something to level up, it is not like we have that many levels to earn, so making it quite hard and long to progress only make it logical, raising from level 1 to 12 should take a year if you want to keep the D&D spirit and feeling.
So to epic levels...I dont even want to think about how hard and long it would be.
But again, I dunno, maybe it will be a game you are done in 2 weeks(I honestly hope it wont be the case and that I will be able to dump 80h a week into the game, even if I cant play a character more then 10 hours a week or whatever).
See, End Game need to be a logical progression of what lead you there, putting PvP or Raiding or whatever nonsense that is not grouping is not End Game, it is lame game! All hails to a possible ''real End Game''!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They said that there would be a constant progression in leveling so dont guess it will take much longer than 2-3 month for hardcore players to get to lvl 20. There are people really playing 24/7 and that is what differs a persistant online world from pen & paper where you meet your friends and play once a week.
I just hope that the path turbine opened for this game was the right one.
What do you think?
Actually, a well built rogue has a higher meele/ranged damage than the cleric, feint/sneak attack will kill you quickly, same as hide/sneak attack from range.
And what do you mean by being allowed to specialise in weapons? the weapon specialization feat is only allowed for PC ith at least 4 lvls of fighter. Any one can get the weapon focus feat, and a rogue will probably use a rapier with weapon finesse. Heck the rogue character should just put in 4 lvls. of fighter for the specialization...
On the crafting note, in PnP most item worth crafting took forever to make, most DMs wont let you sit around for a month making checks to see if you make progress and such, and magic items carry exp cost to make, not to mention that a weapon/armor must be crafted by a character with at least 3 times the weapon´s/armor´s enhancment value in spellcasting levels, so that al lvl. 20, a pure spellcaster would only be able to make +6 weapons/armor while being able to find +10 or above (artifacts).
Just 2 cent from a PnP devotee.
Abandon hope...
I won't be buying this one I am a huge D&D fan been playing since the red boxed edition. Particularly liked the 2nd AD&D setting and played that for years. But I don't like the Turbine approach the are cutting like 45% of the game out at launch. Between all of the races they're leaving out and the classes they are leaving out feats, why bother, is my opinion. This game is no where near what the DnD the pnp players I know want to play, and in my opinion that says allot. If my friends aren't excited to play a game they have waited years to be made, then I will be group less in a forced grouping game.
Personaly, I'm not crazy about PVP but at the same time it don't bother me if they had PvP in the game. Long as it's not free for all. I like to wander and do my thing without getting ganked around every corner.
Crafting. I think they are making a huge mistake by not having it. And really I see no reason not to have it. Crafting in D&D rules don't hurt your advancement really. Only thing is, when you're high enough lvl to get a new feat you chose creation feat or a feat to benefit your class or a general feat. If you chose creation feat you can still be out there killing mobs or questing with your group and keeping up with them. Creation items do have an xp cost, thats the players choice when he pickes a creation feat. The time it takes to craft an item in D&D of course can not be used in an online game. Like they said in the Q&A about leveling your character, it's a more persistant style of gaming. SO the crafting time would have to be much shorter. Plus this would add to a games market that should be. All I'm saying is, the D&D rules could be followed for crafting and with little tweeking..cept for the mechanics of it. You don't have to craft if you don't want to, like in *most* online games.
Questing. I can't believe they think group questing is the only style of D&D! That blowes my mind! Unless, there is questing outsdoors, inside a town,city or villiage. The impresion I got the questing they talking about is all underground. I have a feeling they are making another Guild Wars with underground quests. Guild Wars was fun for about 1 week.
Solo. Ok I understand D&D is about groups adventuring together..but, this is a persistant online game with people playing different times and some for limited hours. This game is by no means for a casual player..not even close! Problem why I left EQ, need a group to get anything done which takes hours to get 1 decent loot item. PLayed CoH. LOved the game! I can solo if I wanted to right to the end game. I can group if I wanted to and get faster xp and kill the mobs that require groups. Had the freedomg to run around. Those are general reasons why some people left some games and play others. I think i'm not alone in this. Plus, I believe forced grouping takes away the freedom people feel in online games.
There is so much more I like to say but I'm not gonna..not yet anyway:)
Well, I hope i'm wrong about some things and give the devs something to think about with other things.
I can't freakin wait for this to come out! I been a fan of D&D since 1982 and I still DM an 8 year campaign..of course the characaters have been rerolled many times:)
D&D never really had crafting nor did it have PVP
It was always about questing
Evidently you've never played AD&D or you'd know that.
That said... pure questing does not translate well to an MMO... I've got a bad feeling this one isn't going to do well.
Which is a shame... I love D&D and have played the P&P game since the 70's.
Veteran of nearly 25 years of table top RPGs here, including having put in 10 years of owning/managing a comic/game store which allowed me to sponsor many a group in my back room gaming area, and I have to totally disagree with you. Normally I wouldn't say anything, but the tone of "evidently you've n ever played AD&D or you'd know that" demanded I say something. For these past 25 years I have been a GM of a broad variety of table top games, and there has not been a single campaign I've run, or participated in as a player, that was nothing but a chain of quests. Granted, the unimaginative GMs who did nothing more than purchase modules and run them with straight text, yes, that's all there was. But the vast majority of table top games are stories that center around the characters, what their interests are, the dymamics of enemies and allies tugging at them, and the development of their lives within the backdrop of the campaign world they're playing in.
I don't expect a MMOG to be able to measure up to the richness and depth that a table top game typically has. But I do expect to be able to do more than just run from one instance to the next, and to so cavalierly dismiss the concern that many share that this game will be just another version of Guild Wars with a "evidently you've never..." is not only arrogant in the extreme, it's also woefully inaccurate. I'd say that your expierences in playing AD&D have been extremely limited, if all you ever did was quests of go to dungeon, beat up monsters, walk off with treasure chests.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.