OK, so we have Richard Garriott clearing stating that the term MMO is all about the number of players in the same reality (instance / world).
We have Raph Koster stating that the term MMO was used to identify games that supported more players in the same persistent world than standard multiplayer games (minorly multiplayer) where the current common cap is 250.
Then we have English comprehension of the term "massively multiplayer online", which tells us the word "massively" applies to the word "multiplayer", so again, its all about the number of players who can play together at the same time and that number is massively bigger than standard multiplayer.
So, whilst there is no absolute figure, it is clear that the number of players in the same world is the key and that number has to be massively bigger than standard online multiplayer games. For me, that means massively bigger than 128 (common cap for multiplayer games like battlefield), so I'd set it as 500+ or 1000+ in the same world.
That rules out Destiny and The Division. It rules out mobas. It rules out standard FPS's like COD and Battlefield. It rules out survival games like DayZ. It rules in games like UO, WoW, LotRO, EQ etc.
So, can we say argument over on the definition now? Can we stop calling Destiny and The Division MMOs? I don't care if this site writes articles on games from other genres, that's fine and the articles are interesting and it's fun to see what features other genres have that could be applied to MMOs. Just, stop calling them MMOs; they aren't. I get really excited when I hear that a new AAA MMO is being developed by a Western company, but then halfway through your article it turns out you're lying and not writing about an MMO. That always leaves me feeling disappointed and it hurts your credibility.
Being an MMO should be something to aspire to. A persistent virtual world with 500+ concurrent users in it is something we rarely see and should excite us. We just need MMOs to start designing features specifically for 100+ people and then investing in the tech to support it. They don't need to be hardcore features, you don't even need to be grouped, just features that support / encourage as many people as possible (imagine large-scale public quests or rifts, or pvp areas that actually support large numbers).
I think they're both great definitions, but where it introduces problems is that Destiny DOES allow for 250 players across a persistent universe. They break it down by maps or zones. I think that the differentiation that needs to be made is that the "game allows for a massive number of people (250+) to, in theory, convene in one location or zone, outside of hubs"
I think that would basically tie up the loose ends. I'd also be interested to know what games actually allow for that. My guess is that there are plenty of current "MMOs" which don't.
I don't understand why this is an argument. Laser is an acronym how about we start calling leds lasers because we don't want to use the acronym it already is. What an odd argument. Oh wait we can create new language to fit the new "thing", Nope let's just use already existing language so no one has a clue as to what we are talking about. Cars are now trucks and buses. Don't use truck or bus every again because reasons...
Things are not always as we believe
This is an LED laser, I have one and it can cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel.
Things come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. MMO's too it seems
I don't understand why this is an argument. Laser is an acronym how about we start calling leds lasers because we don't want to use the acronym it already is. What an odd argument. Oh wait we can create new language to fit the new "thing", Nope let's just use already existing language so no one has a clue as to what we are talking about. Cars are now trucks and buses. Don't use truck or bus every again because reasons...
Things are not always as we believe
This is an LED laser, I have one and it can cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel.
Things come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. MMO's too it seems
In the spirit of the MMO debate and as a proud Ford F350 owner.
How the heck can you call that Honda thing a truck
To be fair, me and my friends have been calling it a trucklet for years
Love it though. It's a unibody SUV with a truck body plopped on it. Corners 10 times better than your typical truck... which appeals to that performance conscious teenager that still lives somewhere inside of me.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Fixed it for you =-) Kinda like MMO, MMORPG, MOBA, MOG. They all mean something. Same with the labels I put in your post. When you say truck, that would be like me saying video game.
I don't understand why this is an argument. Laser is an acronym how about we start calling leds lasers because we don't want to use the acronym it already is. What an odd argument. Oh wait we can create new language to fit the new "thing", Nope let's just use already existing language so no one has a clue as to what we are talking about. Cars are now trucks and buses. Don't use truck or bus every again because reasons...
Things are not always as we believe
This is an LED laser, I have one and it can cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel.
Things come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. MMO's too it seems
In the spirit of the MMO debate and as a proud Ford F350 owner.
How the heck can you call that Honda thing a truck
To be fair, me and my friends have been calling it a trucklet for years
Love it though. It's a unibody SUV with a truck body plopped on it. Corners 10 times better than your typical truck... which appeals to that performance conscious teenager that still lives somewhere inside of me.
You're both wrong...
There are only two types of vehicles in this world: The Jeep Wrangler and all the shit that isn't a Jeep Wrangler.
Love how they ask the guy that knows what an mmo should be and then proceed to ignore him and spew their own crap about what they think it is.
It's no surprise to me at all that the authoers of mmoRPG are bias in favor of making more games mmo's because it gives them more to cover and more to write about, people need to wake up that site has not been the best site for mmo news in a long time for this exact reason, there are better sites out there that focus on mmo's only and don't clutter their reporting or forums with games that simple put are not MMO's.
I don't understand why this is an argument. Laser is an acronym how about we start calling leds lasers because we don't want to use the acronym it already is. What an odd argument. Oh wait we can create new language to fit the new "thing", Nope let's just use already existing language so no one has a clue as to what we are talking about. Cars are now trucks and buses. Don't use truck or bus every again because reasons...
Things are not always as we believe
This is an LED laser, I have one and it can cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel.
Things come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. MMO's too it seems
In the spirit of the MMO debate and as a proud Ford F350 owner.
How the heck can you call that Honda thing a truck
To be fair, me and my friends have been calling it a trucklet for years
Love it though. It's a unibody SUV with a truck body plopped on it. Corners 10 times better than your typical truck... which appeals to that performance conscious teenager that still lives somewhere inside of me.
You're both wrong...
There are only two types of vehicles in this world: The Jeep Wrangler and all the shit that isn't a Jeep Wrangler.
*ducks and runs away*
That reminds me of my uncle who's a huge jeep guy. Always hate people who refer to jeeps as cars. Gonna come over to his place this weekend to install the Smittybilt stuffs on his Wrangler.
I guess common sense isn't so common. I've worked with lasers. An led is not a laser. An led can be part of a laser but it isn't the whole. Leds produce light, no amplification going on. Just like an engine isn't a vehicle. It's an engine. We use labels for a reason.
I own two industrial lasers. One is a 4kw CO2 laser and lists for 700k usd, the other is an 8kw Fiber laser that lists for 1.2 million usd. The fiber laser's beam is generated from two LED's (light emitting diodes) It's pretty amazing as it will cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel but it will pass right through most plastics like they were a piece of glass. Opacity of the plastic or any other material for that matter doesn't matter. The laser beam travels through a plastic filament 0.004" in diameter.
The CO2 laser is a completely different beast in its workings and it doesn't care about plastic.
Both lasers produce an infrared beam which is invisible to the naked eye unless it is in a vacuum. The light produced by each is at different frequencies and that is why certain materials will react differently to the different types of laser.
LED lasers are making the CO2 lasers obsolete, although they won't make them disappear entirely because there are a few applications that the CO2 can do that the LED can't.
I've been in the industrial laser business since 1992.
What kind of lasers do you work with?
edit:
For anyone who's curious
This is a resonator for a CO2 laser. What your looking at is worth about 160k usd
This is a Fiber laser resonator ( "Fiber" refers to the beam delivery system) What your seeing is worth about 400k usd
Comments
I think they're both great definitions, but where it introduces problems is that Destiny DOES allow for 250 players across a persistent universe. They break it down by maps or zones. I think that the differentiation that needs to be made is that the "game allows for a massive number of people (250+) to, in theory, convene in one location or zone, outside of hubs"
I think that would basically tie up the loose ends. I'd also be interested to know what games actually allow for that. My guess is that there are plenty of current "MMOs" which don't.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Well @Iselin....
In the spirit of the MMO debate and as a proud Ford F350 owner.
How the heck can you call that Honda thing a truck
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
To be fair, me and my friends have been calling it a trucklet for years
Love it though. It's a unibody SUV with a truck body plopped on it. Corners 10 times better than your typical truck... which appeals to that performance conscious teenager that still lives somewhere inside of me.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"Automobile" would better fit your analogy.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
There are only two types of vehicles in this world: The Jeep Wrangler and all the shit that isn't a Jeep Wrangler.
*ducks and runs away*
~~ postlarval ~~
Maybe one day in the not too distant future we'll get a MMOBA.
100 on the same map... 250 on the same map....
Last man standing
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's no surprise to me at all that the authoers of mmoRPG are bias in favor of making more games mmo's because it gives them more to cover and more to write about, people need to wake up that site has not been the best site for mmo news in a long time for this exact reason, there are better sites out there that focus on mmo's only and don't clutter their reporting or forums with games that simple put are not MMO's.
Wake up people. stop being sheep.
I own two industrial lasers. One is a 4kw CO2 laser and lists for 700k usd, the other is an 8kw Fiber laser that lists for 1.2 million usd. The fiber laser's beam is generated from two LED's (light emitting diodes) It's pretty amazing as it will cut through 1 1/2" stainless steel but it will pass right through most plastics like they were a piece of glass. Opacity of the plastic or any other material for that matter doesn't matter. The laser beam travels through a plastic filament 0.004" in diameter.
The CO2 laser is a completely different beast in its workings and it doesn't care about plastic.
Both lasers produce an infrared beam which is invisible to the naked eye unless it is in a vacuum. The light produced by each is at different frequencies and that is why certain materials will react differently to the different types of laser.
LED lasers are making the CO2 lasers obsolete, although they won't make them disappear entirely because there are a few applications that the CO2 can do that the LED can't.
I've been in the industrial laser business since 1992.
What kind of lasers do you work with?
edit:
For anyone who's curious
This is a resonator for a CO2 laser. What your looking at is worth about 160k usd
This is a Fiber laser resonator ( "Fiber" refers to the beam delivery system) What your seeing is worth about 400k usd
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee