OP clearly doesnt understand the design limitations between a persistent world and server/client constraints when it comes to 1000s of players in the same world
vs
Everything else thats way smaller in scope
It's pretty much the biggest reason the MMO's feel outdated, because it's challenging to make the game complex and have the high player populations in the game-world.
Some are doing more ambitious stuff like SpacialOS, the usage Dual Universe wants to achieve with it, but we will have to wait and see how it turns out.
A company that isnt even in the business of making video games, had a meeting and decided that if someone had an idea for a project of ANY kind and majority voted yes then they could work on that project and resources would be allocated. That company made a game and hasnt made another sense and the core company doesnt plan to either.
That game was....kerbal space program.
there is something very wrong with your industry if a company that isnt even in your industry can make a game that is universally considered to be one of the best games out there.
And guess where the developers of KSP work now
let me try it again
there is something very wrong with your industry if a company that isnt even in your industry can make a game that is universally considered to be one of the best games out there.
please if you are going to respond it would be nice if you respond to that direct observation and illustrate how your conclusion is directly related to that observation would be taking it to the state of awesome
LET ME BE MORE CLEAR: when I say 'industry' what that means is not just developers, that means managers, project managers, company agenda it means the whole thing. you can have outstanding developers create a terrible game if your entire system of business is misguided. Thus, when I say what I said and how I said it, THAT is what I was refering to, the 'industry' and how it operates, not one code junkyy
Or Art Director
could you please be more vague and random in your explanation please?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Multimedia design group that programs web apps isn't all that dissimilar from indie game developer. So no real surprise that a company like Squad could create something like KSP - except maybe that it has some spectacular physics (which, not really related to either video game development or advertising).
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
Multimedia design group that programs web apps isn't all that dissimilar from indie game developer. So no real surprise that a company like Squad could create something like KSP - except maybe that it has some spectacular physics (which, not really related to either video game development or advertising).
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
yes its not very dissimilar yes its a surprise
its not that they just created a game its that they created one of the best games of the year.
your a gamer so its like Levels right? Actual game developer company is level 10 at making games Actual multimedia design company is a level 8 at making games, a fan company is level 3 at making games.
The actual game developer company is a higher level so one would assume a company that doesnt specialize in computer games would not be able to make a game that is BETTER than the majority of games made by companies that specialize in computer gaming?
which of course is exactly what I said the first time
never mind the another point which is KSP didnt become one of the best games of the year because of its god damn graphics I can assure you of that
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Multimedia design group that programs web apps isn't all that dissimilar from indie game developer. So no real surprise that a company like Squad could create something like KSP - except maybe that it has some spectacular physics (which, not really related to either video game development or advertising).
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
yes its not very dissimilar yes its a surprise
its not that they just created a game its that they created one of the best games of the year.
your a gamer so its like Levels right? Actual game developer company is level 10 at making games Actual multimedia design company is a level 8 at making games, a fan company is level 3 at making games.
The actual game developer company is a higher level so one would assume a company that doesnt specialize in computer games would not be able to make a game that is BETTER than the majority of games made by companies that specialize in computer gaming?
which of course is exactly what I said the first time
And now they work for a big gaming company
which doesnt address or alter my point at all, in fact I barely can see how its remotely realated.
how does that affect anything I said? it doesnt.
now those developers (not the actual company which is what I was talking about) just got sucked into a vacuum of a creative desert never to be heard from again.
not sure your point there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Multimedia design group that programs web apps isn't all that dissimilar from indie game developer. So no real surprise that a company like Squad could create something like KSP - except maybe that it has some spectacular physics (which, not really related to either video game development or advertising).
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
yes its not very dissimilar yes its a surprise
its not that they just created a game its that they created one of the best games of the year.
your a gamer so its like Levels right? Actual game developer company is level 10 at making games Actual multimedia design company is a level 8 at making games, a fan company is level 3 at making games.
The actual game developer company is a higher level so one would assume a company that doesnt specialize in computer games would not be able to make a game that is BETTER than the majority of games made by companies that specialize in computer gaming?
which of course is exactly what I said the first time
And now they work for a big gaming company
which doesnt address or alter my point at all, in fact I barely can see how its remotely realated.
how does that affect anything I said? it doesnt.
It does actually you just don't seem to be able to grasp it. That's ok
despite the fact that I was talking about entire company ecosystems not just developers, the only thing you are suggesting here is that these developers just got sucked into a creative desert to never be heard from again for more money OR the big company hired them because they want to learn what they did right.
pretty horrible point on your part
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Multimedia design group that programs web apps isn't all that dissimilar from indie game developer. So no real surprise that a company like Squad could create something like KSP - except maybe that it has some spectacular physics (which, not really related to either video game development or advertising).
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
yes its not very dissimilar yes its a surprise
its not that they just created a game its that they created one of the best games of the year.
your a gamer so its like Levels right? Actual game developer company is level 10 at making games Actual multimedia design company is a level 8 at making games, a fan company is level 3 at making games.
The actual game developer company is a higher level so one would assume a company that doesnt specialize in computer games would not be able to make a game that is BETTER than the majority of games made by companies that specialize in computer gaming?
which of course is exactly what I said the first time
And now they work for a big gaming company
which doesnt address or alter my point at all, in fact I barely can see how its remotely realated.
how does that affect anything I said? it doesnt.
It does actually you just don't seem to be able to grasp it. That's ok
despite the fact that I was talking about entire company ecosystems not just developers, the only thing you are suggesting here is that these developers just got sucked into a creative desert to never be heard from again for more money OR the big company hired them because they want to learn what they did right.
pretty horrible point on your part
I didn't make a point, I was waxing rhapsodic.
so like I said, the developer of The Squad being sucked into a creative desert for more money OR being hired to help a company learn what they did right is off topic to what I am saying.
please stay on point
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Other genres have seen so much advancement in mechanics, gameplay and graphics. So many new games coming out. But almost all MMOs these days are imports from asia (and they never do that great and mostly fail), or so many just stuck in the past and can't think of anything new so they go back to old MMO way of doing things.
The thing about other genres is they have a much faster development cycle, and it would make sense that there would be much more advancement. Most nonMMORPGs probably have development cycles less than 2 years, but MMORPG development cycles are 4+ years, and are probably expected to run another 5+ years. In other words, MMORPGs are a much different animal and slow to change. Not to mention, it doesn't help when 1 game completely blows up the market causing publishers to dream of riches.
Well i still consider a near 20 year old Unreal to be the best fps game sooo.
The moba's are a throwback to low level game design aka 1980's era. sooo just sayin.
I consider the 20 year old MTG to be the best tcg sooo.
If anything MMo's especially rpg's have become stagnant,it is the f2p /cash shop games that take a step backwards but the big dealers are at least stagnant with better graphics.
The only genre seeing some big improvements is single player games but even then it is only a FEW.I looked over the lists of top selling games and imo there is some god awful games in those lists,so only a few each year and that is sad considering there is several hundred developers out there,geesh several hundred in just Korea likely.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Lack of variety is overall thee biggest problem in the MMO industry. Almost every other problem in MMOs hinges on it. It is thee most stagnant genre to exist in gaming.
Compare these titles:
Team Fortress 2 Halo (Pick any of them) Call of Duty (Pick any of them) Portal Half Life
There is more variety between those titles than any 5 AAA MMOs you could ever list, and all of them were radical successes.
That's not the single player genre. That is just the FPS genre. Heck TF2 and Portal are both HL2 mods (at least I think?) and they have more distinction and variety of gameplay between them than WoW, SWTOR, and LOTRO.
Personally I can't stand COD titles. They're just awful IMO. A lot of people love them. That's ok. If I want to play an FPS I can play Halo Combat Evolved or Reach, Dust 514, or or any other one of the titles I actually enjoyed. People who love COD can play COD.
Sure clones exist. Clones exist in all genres. But at least there are multiple models being cloned and not 90% of the industry following the same exact formula.
Not everybody likes the same thing.
The MMO industry has evolved into practices of "You have to have X for it to be an MMO" that cross over from the realm of game design philosophy into pure dogma. There is almost no variety whatsoever in the top titles. A switch in targeting style is thee biggest thing we've seen from a western AAA (ESO) in the last 10 years, even though almost every other aspect of their game remains essentially the same as WoW.
ESO and SWTOR are perfect examples of how when you see distinct single player games with their own styles ported over to the MMO format they actually seem to lose the features that define their game series in the process in order to fit better within the Themepark mold.
Now we haven't even seen a AAA western MMO in the last 3 years. The genre is dying whether people are willing to admit it or not.
This genre will only continue to get worse until people realise that nobody wants to play the same game over and over and over, and 95% of MMOs and 100% of AAA MMOs have been the same since 2004.
It's been 13 damn years. NOBODY wants another rehash of WoW. Not even the people who think they do want one. Give us something freaking new.
It's been 13 damn years. NOBODY wants another rehash of WoW. Not even the people who think they do want one. Give us something freaking new.
That's precisely why we're not seeing many new titles pop up outside of KS games. The stagnation is also problematic because unlike other genres, they weren't really experimenting over that 13 years with what works and what doesn't, they essentially followed a template.
That seems to me to be why we still know this genre by two rather distinct formulas, Sandbox or themepark. There's been little variation from mainstream studios outside of that box. Or even much attempt to combine them since SWG. There hasn't been much in the way of R&D throughout that time. Just stick with what works... Seemed to be the position of major studios.
Now everything is at a standstill. I'm sure a big part of that is giving some of the more popular titles time to die off a bit. Yet do we really know what to expect from the next gen in this genre? Have they really shown to be building toward something bigger and better? I don't have an answer there, I just hope it's not what these ks games are doing, retreading even older ground. Amazon's reveal can't come soon enough.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's been 13 damn years. NOBODY wants another rehash of WoW. Not even the people who think they do want one. Give us something freaking new.
That's precisely why we're not seeing many new titles pop up outside of KS games. The stagnation is also problematic because unlike other genres, they weren't really experimenting over that 13 years with what works and what doesn't, they essentially followed a template.
That seems to me to be why we still know this genre by two rather distinct formulas, Sandbox or themepark. There's been little variation from mainstream studios outside of that box. Or even much attempt to combine them since SWG. There hasn't been much in the way of R&D throughout that time. Just stick with what works... Seemed to be the position of major studios.
Now everything is at a standstill. I'm sure a big part of that is giving some of the more popular titles time to die off a bit. Yet do we really know what to expect from the next gen in this genre? Have they really shown to be building toward something bigger and better? I don't have an answer there, I just hope it's not what these ks games are doing, retreading even older ground. Amazon's reveal can't come soon enough.
Let's be honest. Name a single sandbox that didn't start out as a small indie title. (I'm not going to count AA or BDO since they are essentially WoW clones / themeparks with a sprinkling of sandbox for flavor.)
If you compare the two biggest sandbox successes (EVE and Runescape) they are very different titles in every regard.
Sandboxes are the only part of the MMO market getting it right in that their games are not formulaic. Well, and Blizzard has done very well for their target audience despite the damage that replicating them has done to this market. But literally every AAA MMO since 2004 has gotten it wrong and that's why they've flopped to the degree that big companies have just given up on MMOs altogther it seems like.
Wanting to be the next WoW is what killed western MMOs.
Let's be honest. Name a single sandbox that didn't start out as a small indie title. (I'm not going to count AA or BDO since they are essentially WoW clones / themeparks with a sprinkling of sandbox for flavor.)
If you compare the two biggest sandbox successes (EVE and Runescape) they are very different titles in every regard.
Sandboxes are the only part of the MMO market getting it right in that their games are not formulaic. Well, and Blizzard has done very well for their target audience despite the damage that replicating them has done to this market. But literally every AAA MMO since 2004 has gotten it wrong and that's why they've flopped to the degree that big companies have just given up on MMOs altogther it seems like.
Wanting to be the next WoW is what killed western MMOs.
Sure, I should have said SWG was really the last time any big studio attempted something more sandboxish. That's a good place to bring in your shooter example. That genre has been full of risk taking formulas, it's not uniform to a prerequisite of check marks that have been ingrained in the themepark MMO.
Any variation has mostly been in class dynamic (if any is applied, some are rather uniform there as well.) As well as story delivery. I mean you think they'd at least build off prior systems like TOR in bringing a group dynamic to that front, but no ESO went backwards there. By being even less group friendly due to it's lack of story participation and solo orientation.
That's what I mean when I say there has been no real continued R&D in this genre. They don't build off previous design they just try and include a bare boned version of everything, mostly a lesser really, because it's just been a stagnant pile on of features, just for the sake of hitting check marks.
Back to your point. While I do agree indies have been more exploratory, it's the budgets and lack of resource that hurts many there. They just lose that massively feel in their own way because they devolve into wolf on wolf.
Sorry I'm drifting btw many thoughts tired brain lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Some are doing more ambitious stuff like SpacialOS, the usage Dual Universe wants to achieve with it, but we will have to wait and see how it turns out.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Neither one are MMO level though, so apples <--/-->oranges
yes its a surprise
its not that they just created a game its that they created one of the best games of the year.
your a gamer so its like Levels right? Actual game developer company is level 10 at making games Actual multimedia design company is a level 8 at making games, a fan company is level 3 at making games.
The actual game developer company is a higher level so one would assume a company that doesnt specialize in computer games would not be able to make a game that is BETTER than the majority of games made by companies that specialize in computer gaming?
which of course is exactly what I said the first time
never mind the another point which is KSP didnt become one of the best games of the year because of its god damn graphics I can assure you of that
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
how does that affect anything I said? it doesnt.
now those developers (not the actual company which is what I was talking about) just got sucked into a vacuum of a creative desert never to be heard from again.
not sure your point there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
pretty horrible point on your part
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
please stay on point
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
The moba's are a throwback to low level game design aka 1980's era. sooo just sayin.
I consider the 20 year old MTG to be the best tcg sooo.
If anything MMo's especially rpg's have become stagnant,it is the f2p /cash shop games that take a step backwards but the big dealers are at least stagnant with better graphics.
The only genre seeing some big improvements is single player games but even then it is only a FEW.I looked over the lists of top selling games and imo there is some god awful games in those lists,so only a few each year and that is sad considering there is several hundred developers out there,geesh several hundred in just Korea likely.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Compare these titles:
Team Fortress 2
Halo (Pick any of them)
Call of Duty (Pick any of them)
Portal
Half Life
There is more variety between those titles than any 5 AAA MMOs you could ever list, and all of them were radical successes.
That's not the single player genre. That is just the FPS genre. Heck TF2 and Portal are both HL2 mods (at least I think?) and they have more distinction and variety of gameplay between them than WoW, SWTOR, and LOTRO.
Personally I can't stand COD titles. They're just awful IMO. A lot of people love them. That's ok. If I want to play an FPS I can play Halo Combat Evolved or Reach, Dust 514, or or any other one of the titles I actually enjoyed. People who love COD can play COD.
Sure clones exist. Clones exist in all genres. But at least there are multiple models being cloned and not 90% of the industry following the same exact formula.
Not everybody likes the same thing.
The MMO industry has evolved into practices of "You have to have X for it to be an MMO" that cross over from the realm of game design philosophy into pure dogma. There is almost no variety whatsoever in the top titles. A switch in targeting style is thee biggest thing we've seen from a western AAA (ESO) in the last 10 years, even though almost every other aspect of their game remains essentially the same as WoW.
ESO and SWTOR are perfect examples of how when you see distinct single player games with their own styles ported over to the MMO format they actually seem to lose the features that define their game series in the process in order to fit better within the Themepark mold.
Now we haven't even seen a AAA western MMO in the last 3 years. The genre is dying whether people are willing to admit it or not.
This genre will only continue to get worse until people realise that nobody wants to play the same game over and over and over, and 95% of MMOs and 100% of AAA MMOs have been the same since 2004.
It's been 13 damn years. NOBODY wants another rehash of WoW. Not even the people who think they do want one. Give us something freaking new.
That seems to me to be why we still know this genre by two rather distinct formulas, Sandbox or themepark. There's been little variation from mainstream studios outside of that box. Or even much attempt to combine them since SWG. There hasn't been much in the way of R&D throughout that time. Just stick with what works... Seemed to be the position of major studios.
Now everything is at a standstill. I'm sure a big part of that is giving some of the more popular titles time to die off a bit. Yet do we really know what to expect from the next gen in this genre? Have they really shown to be building toward something bigger and better? I don't have an answer there, I just hope it's not what these ks games are doing, retreading even older ground. Amazon's reveal can't come soon enough.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you compare the two biggest sandbox successes (EVE and Runescape) they are very different titles in every regard.
Sandboxes are the only part of the MMO market getting it right in that their games are not formulaic. Well, and Blizzard has done very well for their target audience despite the damage that replicating them has done to this market. But literally every AAA MMO since 2004 has gotten it wrong and that's why they've flopped to the degree that big companies have just given up on MMOs altogther it seems like.
Wanting to be the next WoW is what killed western MMOs.
Any variation has mostly been in class dynamic (if any is applied, some are rather uniform there as well.) As well as story delivery. I mean you think they'd at least build off prior systems like TOR in bringing a group dynamic to that front, but no ESO went backwards there. By being even less group friendly due to it's lack of story participation and solo orientation.
That's what I mean when I say there has been no real continued R&D in this genre. They don't build off previous design they just try and include a bare boned version of everything, mostly a lesser really, because it's just been a stagnant pile on of features, just for the sake of hitting check marks.
Back to your point. While I do agree indies have been more exploratory, it's the budgets and lack of resource that hurts many there. They just lose that massively feel in their own way because they devolve into wolf on wolf.
Sorry I'm drifting btw many thoughts tired brain lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Follow my Blog at: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/123bentilador