Ashes of Creation - Ashes of KickStarter - MMORPG.com

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Ashes of Creation - Ashes of KickStarter - MMORPG.com

This week we follow a tale of two Tim’s. One of youthful optimistic naivete and one of aged bitter cynicism. Both offer their take on Ashes of Creation’s impending Kickstarter.

Read the full story here

Scott_Jeslis

Tim I feel exactly the same way, especially the "older" "little man". "What does the little man inside you say? - Kramer"

Slapshot1188

"Improve the product, not the marketing. Business seems to get that part wrong most of the time."

You do understand that the guy behind this made his money in MultiLevelMarketing right?

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multi-level-marketing.asp

Slapshot1188

Heck.. they have a robust section of their website dedicated to tracking how your referrals are doing. This includes listings of each visit, conversion rates, graphs....

Voidfarer

Looking forward to this game!!!

Joreel

I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.

Slapshot1188

Joreel said:

I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.

Kind of think you won't know if the game is everything they promise until it launches.
All the Kickstarter will tell you is what they promise.

But the "Refund" guarantee that Steven promised is a good thing.

Alomar

I like everything I've heard and seen from Ashes, enough information and actual footage to alleviate my previous woes and fears of the other Kickstarter projects I debated backing. Yet, I've read, just the surface mind you, that the reason they have so much to show already is from the purchasing of already created assets and meshing them together. From 19 years of mmo gaming I understand how important smooth and organized coding is.



I've seen countless issues with games when code has been outsourced and the main developer always struggled with adapting it, to the point it becomes layers of unrefined code. Therefore, my fear is that while it looks promising with 1 person on the screen, if they continue this behavior of purchasing assets coded in all manor of ways and put them together, I don't think performance will be anywhere near capable of what I want in my mmo's. Which is large-scale open world communities, pvping most of the time.

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

Joreel said:

I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.

Kind of think you won't know if the game is everything they promise until it launches.
All the Kickstarter will tell you is what they promise.

But the "Refund" guarantee that Steven promised is a good thing.

"Promised" being the operative word here.

Of course if it all goes south there may be a change of plan.

Perhaps a surety bond for the KSer funds is in order. 

SpottyGekko

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Joreel said:

I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.

Kind of think you won't know if the game is everything they promise until it launches.
All the Kickstarter will tell you is what they promise.

But the "Refund" guarantee that Steven promised is a good thing.

"Promised" being the operative word here.

Of course if it all goes south there may be a change of plan.

Perhaps a surety bond for the KSer funds is in order. 

The promised refund would naturally be conditional though, because the KS funds will be spent as part of the development process.

Making promises and actually keeping them are two vastly different things.

If things go bad and there's no money left, how can they possibly offer refunds ?

Phixion13

Alomar said:

I like everything I've heard and seen from Ashes, enough information and actual footage to alleviate my previous woes and fears of the other Kickstarter projects I debated backing. Yet, I've read, just the surface mind you, that the reason they have so much to show already is from the purchasing of already created assets and meshing them together. From 19 years of mmo gaming I understand how important smooth and organized coding is.





I've seen countless issues with games when code has been outsourced and the main developer always struggled with adapting it, to the point it becomes layers of unrefined code. Therefore, my fear is that while it looks promising with 1 person on the screen, if they continue this behavior of purchasing assets coded in all manor of ways and put them together, I don't think performance will be anywhere near capable of what I want in my mmo's. Which is large-scale open world communities, pvping most of the time.

I was worried by this but it was pointed out that those assets are Unreal Engine market stuff and financially a smart move for indie devs. They are using the Unreal engine but they have their own coding in the background for it. They have some MMO vets on their team and I hope they are just playing it smart. *fingers crossed*

midnitewolf

Surprisingly I feel the same way. The biggest issue I have with backing any game anymore is the massive amount of time involved between my initial investment and when the game release, if it ever releases. Star Citizen was a prime example, I bought into it something like 4 years ago and the game still hasn't released and I don't want to waste time on a game that isn't saving my progress. The reality is now that I am deep into middle age, I don't know what I am going to be doing 2 month down the road, let alone 2,3,4 years and I am not willing to invest my money into something I am not going to see a return on at least in the next few months.

Nanfoodle

Still waiting for more in depth info on combat vision. Won't back a game without details on what they want the game play to look and feel like. Very excited to see Bard on the list of classes but what role it will play is where money parts my wallet. Pls sell me.

Galadourn

The videos we've seen so far show promise. The movement is fluid (even more impressive considering this is a pre-alpha), combat looks fast-paced, albeit tab-target ( I don't mind that at all).

The big question is, how will the core game systems be implemented in a way that players can understand and "play along".

I like the node development concept and i can understand it in a Civ-type game, where the player has an omniscient god-like interface to check what is happening, but how do you use that feature in an MMO in a coherent way when players run around fighting others, NPCs or gathering resources?

What I mean is that, although the idea might look nice on paper, we have to see how "fun" it is going to be in the actual game.

That being said, I'm hopeful again for the first time after EQN cancellation. Let's wait and see.

JeepEscape

I read another article about this game recently and the devs say it has been in development for 14 months already. They also had the goal of having a "playable" game in place before they crowdfunded. I"m sure that means minimally playable, but as was mentioned in the article, many of us have backed games that were little more than a sketch on a napkin from a dive bar meeting. We're wiser now

There are several videos on their YouTube channel with solid info.

I'm optimistic about it too, it sounds amazing and the lead devs are solid vets.

As I always say, watch what they don't say as closely as what they do and form your questions accordingly.

My biggest problem is that I've been riding this wave for years now. I've been waiting for a new home MMO since SWG, Just tired of waiting.

Papasmerv

Slapshot1188 said:

You do understand that the guy behind this made his money in MultiLevelMarketing right?

Fact or Fiction? Source links please.

Slapshot1188

Papasmerv said:

Slapshot1188 said:

You do understand that the guy behind this made his money in MultiLevelMarketing right?

Fact or Fiction? Source links please.  

Just go look at the Ashes threads on here.  Plenty of info posted already 


Here's a quote from the developer right from these forums:

Did you make your money through MLM?

One of my backgrounds is the Multi-Level Marketing industry (Which is a great industry, though some companies have tarnished it's reputation, others such as Mary Kay, Avon and XanGo are great examples of what can be accomplished with MLM).  Though my primary sources of income are real-estate and investments.

Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/461165/so-the-story-begins#tekVcpmqGW183QOB.99

Oyjord

Jesus, if that MLM info is true, I won't spend a penny on this game.

cobaltshadow

^

I guess people being honest is a bad thing?

Slapshot1188

Oyjord said:

Jesus, if that MLM info is true, I won't spend a penny on this game.

It's true.. he said it himself on these forums so not sure why the doubt...  

Now Ashes is NOT using MLM exactly as far as I can tell, but what it IS focused on is paying people real money to spread the word and recruit other people to spend money on the game.  They have sophisitcated tools built to track who you  referr, where you referred them from, how many people have used that referral link, how frequently they "convert" to actual members, how much they spend, what your payouts (real cash) have been...

This isn't your typical "Recruit a friend and you both get a red parrot pet" type thing.   This is a very thought out marketing campaign that pays you real cash to get other people to spend real cash on the game.

acidblood

Pretty much feel the same, part of me wants to say 'screw it' and just drop $100 or so for some goodies and alpha/beta access (if for no other reason than to check out the node tech) ... but the other part of me says putting that money into a savings account for 2-3 years would be a far better 'investment'... I guess I'll see once the KickStarter launches (though I have a sneaking suspicion the outcome will depend on the ratio of solid information to marketing BS contained therein)

Mitara

wow, who are you and what have you done with Tim Eisen? This was really well written and exciting to read. Well done..

Shaigh

The vision sounds amazing but without some serious backing I don't expect them to come anywhere close to what they are proposing. Kickstarter will just be a drop in the bucket of what its going to take to deliver this thing.

Rusque

Slapshot1188 said:

Now Ashes is NOT using MLM exactly as far as I can tell, but what it IS focused on is paying people real money to spread the word and recruit other people to spend money on the game.  They have sophisitcated tools built to track who you  referr, where you referred them from, how many people have used that referral link, how frequently they "convert" to actual members, how much they spend, what your payouts (real cash) have been...

This isn't your typical "Recruit a friend and you both get a red parrot pet" type thing.   This is a very thought out marketing campaign that pays you real cash to get other people to spend real cash on the game.

Yeah, that's literally MLM.

Anyone who supports this "game" deserves exactly what's coming.

CrazKanuk

Rusque said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Now Ashes is NOT using MLM exactly as far as I can tell, but what it IS focused on is paying people real money to spread the word and recruit other people to spend money on the game.  They have sophisitcated tools built to track who you  referr, where you referred them from, how many people have used that referral link, how frequently they "convert" to actual members, how much they spend, what your payouts (real cash) have been...

This isn't your typical "Recruit a friend and you both get a red parrot pet" type thing.   This is a very thought out marketing campaign that pays you real cash to get other people to spend real cash on the game.

Yeah, that's literally MLM.

Anyone who supports this "game" deserves exactly what's coming.

Actually, no that's not. MLM is MULTI-LEVEL Marketing. Multi! Meaning Multiple. Meaning Multiple Levels. It's literally not "literally MLM"

This is affiliate marketing and it's done by nearly every single, successful, online business who sells any sort of product. You're able to have a single level of referrals ONLY. That means that you are NOT able to refer people and also capitalize on the referrals of those people, and the people under them, etc. 

That is unless you know something I don't. However, based on their referral page, that's what I took away from their referral information. 

Leiloni

Slapshot1188 said:

Joreel said:

I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.

Kind of think you won't know if the game is everything they promise until it launches.
All the Kickstarter will tell you is what they promise.

But the "Refund" guarantee that Steven promised is a good thing.

The Kickstarter will also show you the game. They'll be live streaming the game Mon/Weds/Fri for the duration of the kickstarter. So anyone curious can see the current state of pre-alpha to at least get an idea.