LotRO was a great investment for me. Now I also have a lifetime in The Secret World and that was a complete waste of money.
So we can all agree that when considering a lfietime sub, there's at least two risks involved:
A) Will the game survive long enough for the life time sub to be worth it?
Will you enjoy the game long enough for the lifetime sub to be worth it?
However, with kickstarter/crowdfunding MMOs, we can add a third very important risk.
C) Will the game actually come out in the first place?
Two factors is already risky enough. Even you, postlarval, are only 50/50 when it comes to success with lifetime subs as you've stated (LOTR = win, Secret World = fail). Now think about how much riskier it is when there's no guarantee the game will even come out. And that's before tacking on other potential ones like "Will you still care about the game at that point?" or heck, even "Will you still have your life at that point?" considering how long it takes crowdfunded MMOs to come out (so far there's been like, one that has. Shroud of the Avatar. And it's not a very impressive showing)
Oh, you're preaching to the choir about kickstarter/crowdfunded/EA games.
BTW, Should of the Avatar isn't out. Portalarium delivered a streaming pile of shit instead of SotA. That was the game I invested in that made me swear off these scams forever.
Pantheon fan and supporter here. While I understand some of you are definitely skeptical about funding games like this now, you should probably do a bit more research on the game and the people involved with it.
Some don't like Brad McQuiad. That's fine, but if you did some research properly, the games didn't fail because of him, they THRIVED because of him. He created those games, but was never given the time he needed to make the game what he wanted it to be. Every single time he was forced off the project or was directed by someone above him to do something else with the project that he didn't plan. Vanguard was great for many people who played it. The issue was all the bugs involved. He was forced to release way sooner than he/the game/his team was ready for.
I'm skeptical just like some of you when it comes to kickstarters. SotA is a game I was looking into, I'm glad I didn't support it. Star Citizen is probably on the top of my list of games/companies to watch out for in topics of scamming kickstarter games. $150 million dollars and 4 years later and the game isn't even close to 100% completion. Yet, they are talking about adding in Squadron 42, whatever the heck that is. I did my fair research and I know that I don't know everything about the game itself, but I know how some of their long time supporters feel about where the game is going and they wanted out. People are calling all the necessary names in the book to make sure they get their money back. Lawyers, banks, District Attorney's, etc.
The only thing I can do for those who are skeptical is tell you to do some research. Look into it! You'll find a lot of interesting stuff. Most of it is just ideas of what they want the game to be, but some of that has already been added to the game.
My biggest example from what I mentioned above is with AoC (Ashes of Creation). Look how AMAZING that game looks. It's pre-pre-alpha like Pantheon. They were more successful on kickstarter than Pantheon. They also had a $30 million head start because of the creative director who is responsible for the creation of this game. Looks and sounds like a great game, right? Come to find the creative director has ZERO experience when it comes to developing games. His only experience comes from playing the games himself! He also talks about these nodes and stuff he wants to add to the game. They've done a good amount of streaming with the first 2 months they even began streaming, but if you pay real close attention, there's hardly any game play footage. One video showed a max of like 30 mins of game play and it was the same you saw in their youtube videos/previous streams. I'll give them a few more months though to start actually fixing that. Hopefully they do. Pantheon while they don't stream as often as these guys do; every time they do stream, you see game play and progress. They talked about an acclimation system and showed how it works in one of their previous streams. 1. They talked about one of their ideas for the game. 2. They showed it. That's what you should be seeing in streams and videos: progress, ideas, and more of the map.
If it's too big of a risk for you to invest now, you probably should try to avoid investing in ANY game. There is too much risk with kickstarter. Someone already said it above me, but there's no one holding these people accountable for the game they create. They could face a class action lawsuit like No Man's Sky did, and their reputation would be so ruined, but who cares when you've made so much money off of people? But that doesn't mean every single game is a scam and is bad to fund. There are already successful kickstarters out there. Funded, tested, and released. There are also some that have already failed or are in decline. JUST DO YOUR RESEARCH.
Worst case scenario, you're interested but skeptical of supporting the game. Wait for free beta keys or something. Closed beta weekends, alpha keys, etc. I'm sure they want people to test the game... But as many times as Brad has been screwed over by some of these companies he was working for/with. I wouldn't want to work under anyone either... Sorry for what seems to be a rant. I'm not ranting angrily, more so out of frustration for the people who use their skepticism to deter people away from the game. I'm not here to convince you Pantheon will be a WoW killer or anything. I'm excited for the game and I've stated that I'm a fan. Just look into the game a bit more before you decide whether it's something you like or dislike. If it peaks your interest, they release a newsletter every single month -- just come back every month or 2 and see whats up!
If it's not something you're interested in, that's fine, it's more focused on people who were in love with games like EQ1, EQ2, and Vanguard. It might not have the PVP you enjoy or all the solo content in the world you can play by yourself. I wish you the best of luck in finding a game that fits your gaming habits.
Pantheon fan and supporter here. While I understand some of you are definitely skeptical about funding games like this now, you should probably do a bit more research on the game and the people involved with it.
Some don't like Brad McQuiad. That's fine, but if you did some research properly, the games didn't fail because of him, they THRIVED because of him. He created those games, but was never given the time he needed to make the game what he wanted it to be. Every single time he was forced off the project or was directed by someone above him to do something else with the project that he didn't plan. Vanguard was great for many people who played it. The issue was all the bugs involved. He was forced to release way sooner than he/the game/his team was ready for.
I'm skeptical just like some of you when it comes to kickstarters. SotA is a game I was looking into, I'm glad I didn't support it. Star Citizen is probably on the top of my list of games/companies to watch out for in topics of scamming kickstarter games. $150 million dollars and 4 years later and the game isn't even close to 100% completion. Yet, they are talking about adding in Squadron 42, whatever the heck that is. I did my fair research and I know that I don't know everything about the game itself, but I know how some of their long time supporters feel about where the game is going and they wanted out. People are calling all the necessary names in the book to make sure they get their money back. Lawyers, banks, District Attorney's, etc.
The only thing I can do for those who are skeptical is tell you to do some research. Look into it! You'll find a lot of interesting stuff. Most of it is just ideas of what they want the game to be, but some of that has already been added to the game.
My biggest example from what I mentioned above is with AoC (Ashes of Creation). Look how AMAZING that game looks. It's pre-pre-alpha like Pantheon. They were more successful on kickstarter than Pantheon. They also had a $30 million head start because of the creative director who is responsible for the creation of this game. Looks and sounds like a great game, right? Come to find the creative director has ZERO experience when it comes to developing games. His only experience comes from playing the games himself! He also talks about these nodes and stuff he wants to add to the game. They've done a good amount of streaming with the first 2 months they even began streaming, but if you pay real close attention, there's hardly any game play footage. One video showed a max of like 30 mins of game play and it was the same you saw in their youtube videos/previous streams. I'll give them a few more months though to start actually fixing that. Hopefully they do. Pantheon while they don't stream as often as these guys do; every time they do stream, you see game play and progress. They talked about an acclimation system and showed how it works in one of their previous streams. 1. They talked about one of their ideas for the game. 2. They showed it. That's what you should be seeing in streams and videos: progress, ideas, and more of the map.
If it's too big of a risk for you to invest now, you probably should try to avoid investing in ANY game. There is too much risk with kickstarter. Someone already said it above me, but there's no one holding these people accountable for the game they create. They could face a class action lawsuit like No Man's Sky did, and their reputation would be so ruined, but who cares when you've made so much money off of people? But that doesn't mean every single game is a scam and is bad to fund. There are already successful kickstarters out there. Funded, tested, and released. There are also some that have already failed or are in decline. JUST DO YOUR RESEARCH.
Worst case scenario, you're interested but skeptical of supporting the game. Wait for free beta keys or something. Closed beta weekends, alpha keys, etc. I'm sure they want people to test the game... But as many times as Brad has been screwed over by some of these companies he was working for/with. I wouldn't want to work under anyone either... Sorry for what seems to be a rant. I'm not ranting angrily, more so out of frustration for the people who use their skepticism to deter people away from the game. I'm not here to convince you Pantheon will be a WoW killer or anything. I'm excited for the game and I've stated that I'm a fan. Just look into the game a bit more before you decide whether it's something you like or dislike. If it peaks your interest, they release a newsletter every single month -- just come back every month or 2 and see whats up!
If it's not something you're interested in, that's fine, it's more focused on people who were in love with games like EQ1, EQ2, and Vanguard. It might not have the PVP you enjoy or all the solo content in the world you can play by yourself. I wish you the best of luck in finding a game that fits your gaming habits.
Fair enough but either you are unaware of or applying a bit of revisionist history over Brad's involvement / responsibility for Vangards lack of success.
There's been much debate by the apologetics over why and how it's really not his fault but at the end of the day he was at the helm so bears the bulk of the responsibility.
Even now fans are quick to point out hes not in control of the new studio, other more business savy folks are running it while Brads been relegated to a more limited creative role.
People are correct to be cautious and skeptical of funding KSer MMORPGs, especially ones striving to deliver a full featured one on a shoestring budget.
To date not one has been formally released though Albion Online may become the first later this year
Take a hard look at what Albion Online is delivering, this game (and others) are promising so much more so credibility comes into question.
I backed CU, which is focusing on a much smaller PVP oriented content base, and its been over 4 years with no firm beta date in sight, never mind a release date.
Interesting you brought up Ashes, whose inexperienced Lead has said he's arranged for $30M in funding to build his game.
Regardless whether you believe him, his estimate seems more accurate than most I've seen and so is no less credible than this team.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I decided to send VR my $250, because I really want to see this game succeed. The MMORPG genre has been de-railed by mainstream'ism and I would like it back.
I decided to send VR my $250, because I really want to see this game succeed. The MMORPG genre has been de-railed by mainstream'ism and I would like it back.
Did you attach a note telling them to make sure they accurately recreate the EQ PVP experience?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I decided to send VR my $250, because I really want to see this game succeed. The MMORPG genre has been de-railed by mainstream'ism and I would like it back.
Did you attach a note telling them to make sure they accurately recreate the EQ PVP experience?
I know it is quite the gamble, but from what I've seen so far I am satisfied.
I decided to send VR my $250, because I really want to see this game succeed. The MMORPG genre has been de-railed by mainstream'ism and I would like it back.
Did you attach a note telling them to make sure they accurately recreate the EQ PVP experience?
I know it is quite the gamble, but from what I've seen so far I am satisfied.
From what I've seen it's one of the better bets out there.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know it is quite the gamble, but from what I've seen so far I am satisfied.
From what I've seen it's one of the better bets out there.
My thoughts exactly. I wish there were more promising ones though but it is the only one that seems interesting enough for me to back, at least at this moment.
But I never really liked EQ for it's PvP, I just want a nice group focused PvE game in this case. Others do and that is fine but I think I will have to look elsewhere for the PvP part. Not that it really matters to me, I have no problem playing one game for PvE and one for PvP, done it before.
Comments
BTW, Should of the Avatar isn't out. Portalarium delivered a streaming pile of shit instead of SotA. That was the game I invested in that made me swear off these scams forever.
~~ postlarval ~~
Some don't like Brad McQuiad. That's fine, but if you did some research properly, the games didn't fail because of him, they THRIVED because of him. He created those games, but was never given the time he needed to make the game what he wanted it to be. Every single time he was forced off the project or was directed by someone above him to do something else with the project that he didn't plan. Vanguard was great for many people who played it. The issue was all the bugs involved. He was forced to release way sooner than he/the game/his team was ready for.
I'm skeptical just like some of you when it comes to kickstarters. SotA is a game I was looking into, I'm glad I didn't support it. Star Citizen is probably on the top of my list of games/companies to watch out for in topics of scamming kickstarter games. $150 million dollars and 4 years later and the game isn't even close to 100% completion. Yet, they are talking about adding in Squadron 42, whatever the heck that is. I did my fair research and I know that I don't know everything about the game itself, but I know how some of their long time supporters feel about where the game is going and they wanted out. People are calling all the necessary names in the book to make sure they get their money back. Lawyers, banks, District Attorney's, etc.
The only thing I can do for those who are skeptical is tell you to do some research. Look into it! You'll find a lot of interesting stuff. Most of it is just ideas of what they want the game to be, but some of that has already been added to the game.
My biggest example from what I mentioned above is with AoC (Ashes of Creation). Look how AMAZING that game looks. It's pre-pre-alpha like Pantheon. They were more successful on kickstarter than Pantheon. They also had a $30 million head start because of the creative director who is responsible for the creation of this game. Looks and sounds like a great game, right? Come to find the creative director has ZERO experience when it comes to developing games. His only experience comes from playing the games himself! He also talks about these nodes and stuff he wants to add to the game. They've done a good amount of streaming with the first 2 months they even began streaming, but if you pay real close attention, there's hardly any game play footage. One video showed a max of like 30 mins of game play and it was the same you saw in their youtube videos/previous streams. I'll give them a few more months though to start actually fixing that. Hopefully they do. Pantheon while they don't stream as often as these guys do; every time they do stream, you see game play and progress. They talked about an acclimation system and showed how it works in one of their previous streams. 1. They talked about one of their ideas for the game. 2. They showed it. That's what you should be seeing in streams and videos: progress, ideas, and more of the map.
If it's too big of a risk for you to invest now, you probably should try to avoid investing in ANY game. There is too much risk with kickstarter. Someone already said it above me, but there's no one holding these people accountable for the game they create. They could face a class action lawsuit like No Man's Sky did, and their reputation would be so ruined, but who cares when you've made so much money off of people? But that doesn't mean every single game is a scam and is bad to fund. There are already successful kickstarters out there. Funded, tested, and released. There are also some that have already failed or are in decline. JUST DO YOUR RESEARCH.
Worst case scenario, you're interested but skeptical of supporting the game. Wait for free beta keys or something. Closed beta weekends, alpha keys, etc. I'm sure they want people to test the game... But as many times as Brad has been screwed over by some of these companies he was working for/with. I wouldn't want to work under anyone either... Sorry for what seems to be a rant. I'm not ranting angrily, more so out of frustration for the people who use their skepticism to deter people away from the game. I'm not here to convince you Pantheon will be a WoW killer or anything. I'm excited for the game and I've stated that I'm a fan. Just look into the game a bit more before you decide whether it's something you like or dislike. If it peaks your interest, they release a newsletter every single month -- just come back every month or 2 and see whats up!
If it's not something you're interested in, that's fine, it's more focused on people who were in love with games like EQ1, EQ2, and Vanguard. It might not have the PVP you enjoy or all the solo content in the world you can play by yourself. I wish you the best of luck in finding a game that fits your gaming habits.
There's been much debate by the apologetics over why and how it's really not his fault but at the end of the day he was at the helm so bears the bulk of the responsibility.
Even now fans are quick to point out hes not in control of the new studio, other more business savy folks are running it while Brads been relegated to a more limited creative role.
People are correct to be cautious and skeptical of funding KSer MMORPGs, especially ones striving to deliver a full featured one on a shoestring budget.
To date not one has been formally released though Albion Online may become the first later this year
Take a hard look at what Albion Online is delivering, this game (and others) are promising so much more so credibility comes into question.
I backed CU, which is focusing on a much smaller PVP oriented content base, and its been over 4 years with no firm beta date in sight, never mind a release date.
Interesting you brought up Ashes, whose inexperienced Lead has said he's arranged for $30M in funding to build his game.
Regardless whether you believe him, his estimate seems more accurate than most I've seen and so is no less credible than this team.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know it is quite the gamble, but from what I've seen so far I am satisfied.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But I never really liked EQ for it's PvP, I just want a nice group focused PvE game in this case. Others do and that is fine but I think I will have to look elsewhere for the PvP part. Not that it really matters to me, I have no problem playing one game for PvE and one for PvP, done it before.