istorically speaking, smaller teams are EXTREMELY effective and often accomplish things more quickly and more effectively than larger teams. The larger your team the less productive, overall, each individual unit (or member) is. Larger teams provide diminishing returns to your software project because it increases complexity, communication breakdowns are more common, creating loopbacks, etc. In general, smaller teams are more efficient and effective. Do some research on some of the most productive software teams and they are generally smaller teams. Plus, it's cool research.
As far as redefining MMOs? I don't know why you would take this sort of statement literally, yet when the person tells you it's not an MLM, you don't believe them. You are simply cherry-picking what you choose to focus on. I don't think there is much redefining left to do, but it does seem like every project out there right now is aiming to do so. We can only hope that their aspirations actually come to fruition. After all, the genre could use some innovation, or so I've heard.
The CU comparison is nowhere near the same and I don't know why you constantly bring it up. Marc Jacobs successfully released 2 major MMORPGs and City State Games had made a mobile game before CU. A developers history also counts, not just what is in the KS itself.
MLM guru Steven Sharif has no IT management experience and has only successfully delivered a wordpress website and a video showcasing a few minutes UE4 store assets with next to no gameplay. If he had anything else to show I would also take that into account. I guess you can point to SOE games, but none of the recent ones were successful MMOs and we do not know how involved the 1 dev and 2 designers were.
I do not believe Ashes itself is MLM, but the KS marketing tactics are similar - take a bad or average product and make it look like gold in order to mislead and take advantage of people.
You keep linking peripherally related google articles about broad industry trends. Finding an article that says small teams can be effective does not mean Intrepid will be effective.
You missed the point, the point was that smaller dev teams are traditionally more efficient than larger ones.
As far as experience goes, again, it's nice to have experienced people run projects but there are also reasons that Brad McQuaid and Chris Roberts no longer "run" the day to day operations of their project. This guy is the creative director. So he might tell a game designer what he'd like to see, and they make that happen. The fact he doesn't have a technical background makes it more difficult to communicate the technical aspects of what he's attempting, but as long as he trusts his technical people, the impact to the overall project is minimal, or should be. NOW! If the management is set up in such a way that he has final say and is inflexible and doesn't work well with others, then you could have a problem. Especially if he's being unrealistic about what he wants to see.
There has been some gameplay videos published as well with combat, etc. Here's one and another.
I'm not trying to insinuate that BECAUSE Intrepid is small that they WILL be good. I'm not saying it's an inevitability. What I AM saying is that PLENTY of games are developed by small teams and that small teams ARE more efficient than a larger team. If you assemble a small team of shitty people then I'm assuming they'll get more shitty work done, per unit, than a group of larger shitty people.
HOWEVER! I would go as far as to say that the CONTENT available at the time of the Ashes Kickstarter, including the gameplay videos attached, they have shown more CONTENT than most, or any, game that I've seen go through Kickstarter recently. The only other game that had as much content available at the time of their Kickstarter was probably Dual Universe.
As far as MLM goes, again, the quality of their product doesn't define it as an MLM. If you think the game will be shit, then you can just say that. There are plenty of examples of MMORPGs which went through Kickstarter and wound up being shitty (SotA and Pathfinder Online come to mind immedaitely). However, just because those games turned out shitty, doesn't mean they were MLM. It means they were shitty. THAT I can respect. If you have zero confidence in the team, that's one thing, but claiming it's an MLM scheme makes you look silly.
I guess I weigh a developers track record a lot more highly than you do in that even if a KS is light, a series of successful launches within the same industry matters more than a video with a few minutes of cinematic UE4 store assets and a known scammer telling me how great his next project will be.
I guess I weigh a developers track record a lot more highly than you do in that even if a KS is light, a series of successful launches within the same industry matters more than a video with a few minutes of cinematic UE4 store assets and a known scammer telling me how great his next project will be.
You make some great points in this thread; I almost want to believe you, but throwing terms like "known scammer" around really undermines your position.
Being involved in MLM doesn't mean one is involved in a scam. To be successful at it involves a lot of hard work, like most other careers. Unlike a scam, it involves getting people what they pay for.
On the other hand, when a project lead absorbs roughly 1/3 of a startup company's seed capital for personal expenses... that's much closer to the actual definition of a scam.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
This isn't some guy who worked his way up like he claims on reddit. His familial connections got him close to the top of the pyramid.
And no, I won't hold back or dance around terms when it comes to pyramid schemes. Its is a deeply disgusting model that fills the minds of mostly the young and vulnerable with delusions of grandeur when in reality all it is doing is soliciting a sign-up fee and pushing garbage, overpriced products on friends and family.
When you ask the public for donations for your very first project and this is your history it needs to be called out.
This isn't some guy who worked his way up like he claims on reddit. His familial connections got him close to the top of the pyramid.
And no, I won't hold back or dance around terms when it comes to pyramid schemes. Its is a deeply disgusting model that fills the minds of mostly the young and vulnerable with delusions of grandeur when in reality all it is doing is soliciting a sign-up fee and pushing garbage, overpriced products on friends and family.
When you ask the public for donations for your very first project and this is your history it needs to be called out.
Tell that to the CEO sipping champagne and playing putt-putt on the 50th floor of a high rise.
Pyramid schemes are illegal; MLM isn't. Your ignorance is showing through. Whatever though, I'm not here to educate you.
I just think it's funny how hard you are trying to character assassinate this guy. He's done nothing wrong that I can see.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
This isn't some guy who worked his way up like he claims on reddit. His familial connections got him close to the top of the pyramid.
And no, I won't hold back or dance around terms when it comes to pyramid schemes. Its is a deeply disgusting model that fills the minds of mostly the young and vulnerable with delusions of grandeur when in reality all it is doing is soliciting a sign-up fee and pushing garbage, overpriced products on friends and family.
When you ask the public for donations for your very first project and this is your history it needs to be called out.
Tell that to the CEO sipping champagne and playing putt-putt on the 50th floor of a high rise.
Is that the same guy asking average folks not sipping champagne to give him money?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Tell that to the CEO sipping champagne and playing putt-putt on the 50th floor of a high rise.
Pyramid schemes are illegal; MLM isn't. Your ignorance is showing through. Whatever though, I'm not here to educate you.
I just think it's funny how hard you are trying to character assassinate this guy. He's done nothing wrong that I can see.
If he is asking the general public for donations to his pet project then the public has every right to verify his background and the veracity of his claims.
Maybe rich + technically not illegal is enough for you but ethics and morality do count for some people especially when he is selling future promises.
Rich = trustworthy/good person seems to come up frequently as a defense for this project and it shows a very troubling trend of wealth/celebrity worship that has embedded into western culture.
Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's right or good. Obviously right or good will depend on your moral views, but IMO MLM people are scammy.
Tell that to the CEO sipping champagne and playing putt-putt on the 50th floor of a high rise.
Pyramid schemes are illegal; MLM isn't. Your ignorance is showing through. Whatever though, I'm not here to educate you.
I just think it's funny how hard you are trying to character assassinate this guy. He's done nothing wrong that I can see.
If he is asking the general public for donations to his pet project then the public has every right to verify his background and the veracity of his claims.
Maybe rich + technically not illegal is enough for you but ethics and morality do count for some people especially when he is selling future promises.
Rich = trustworthy/good person seems to come up frequently as a defense for this project and it shows a very troubling trend of wealth/celebrity worship that has embedded into western culture.
Not at all. Rich = trustworthy/good... what? Did you see me pull that card?
On the other hand, speaking of privilege, I understand that certain careers do take a lot of work; direct marketing, of which MLM is just a subset, is one of them. If anything, that he made his way from this into real estate, shows work ethic.
No where am I advocating fraud, which you and most of the internet seem to have magically come to equate with MLM in the last couple years (they are going to have to re-write some textbooks if this is true).
I am not trying to draw any sort of correlation between income and moral standing. I certainly don't think it's an ethical failing to be gainfully employed. If you think it's easy to earn money through MLM then go for it, and bon voyage!
What I implied in my previous post, and @Slapshot1188 deftly riffed on, is that... there's so many different ways to say this... the world needs mechanics, plumbers, and sales clerks more than it needs astrophysics PhDs and high-powered CEOs. All of these serve important roles, but the latter probably wouldn't be careers if the former weren't careers.
You say the general public has every right to verify the background of someone asking for a handout and I agree. I see earning enough through network marketing to get into real estate as a plus. He is a driven individual.
Conversely, some people are handed a check for $145k and use a huge portion of it very irresponsibly. Yet years later the general public hardly bats an eye as his company secures Series A funding.
People that mismanage funds successfully over a long period are usually very good at hiding it (until it just becomes too big to hide). Network marketing, MLM, is not a career where you get to hide from people.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Steve is already on here and has commented previously. Unfortunately he probably has more important work to do than us. He just got a million dollars of funding for his game and is planning how to spend it. For the rest of us, we are probably just hanging out waiting on another SC thread to pop up
The funny part is my previous post defending this game is not a MLM.
Honestly you're all over the place on this, you did say this earlier. "When it has clues that leads to nefarious schemes you can't blame them really."
It's like you're trying to play this from all sides, at some point the message you're sending just becomes convoluted.
I'll apologize, since there are 2 threads about it I could have mixed the posts.
What I meant with clues is what someone said above: People can research about what they are investing on and maybe if some things (like his previous ties to MLM) are kinda vague they'll fill those voids. Some will rationally seek answers, some goes full Lizard-people Illuminati controlling the world.
Now, you can't censure them, you can just clarify it.
And there is no sides. I'm not playing in favor or against anyone. I work with the information given.
The project seems nice, the actual assets are amazing, as it seems they'll make LoTRO monster play non-instanced and tied to GW2 dynamic events (which I love) - I'm worried about the lack of concept art for those mounts and rewards on the tiers in the KS, but the focus was on the guy himself... And then it derailed to people defending MLMs.
Maybe the final product will not be the unholy saviour of the mmorpg world, but i dont think they will just scam people...
I'll apologize, since there are 2 threads about it I could have mixed the posts.
What I meant with clues is what someone said above: People can research about what they are investing on and maybe if some things (like his previous ties to MLM) are kinda vague they'll fill those voids. Some will rationally seek answers, some goes full Lizard-people Illuminati controlling the world.
Now, you can't censure them, you can just clarify it.
There's no need to apologize, I'm of the mind that people just get far too serious about these things (on both sides), especially when it comes to what someone else does with their own money.
I don't think anyone needs to be censored, I just think folks need to step back, breath and chill. What will be, will be, people are always in such a blind rush to be right or post the most witty dig, it just gets mind boggling.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You go to the public looking for money, then get mad when the public talks about you?
Get real.
This thread raises very specific and direct concerns about the competence of management and its ability to deliver its stated goals.
Sure its gets hyperbolic, welcome to the internet. Crying about the mere fact that people are criticizing the campaign and demanding the people be shut down and banned just shows how weak your position is.
I can't believe some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank. You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt. To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.
I can't believe some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank. You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt. To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.
Reasoning like this is why MLM is successful and why devs can sit around collecting fat paychecks for years on your dime with little to show for it.
My thoughts: this will probably end up being a good game that will be fun to play, even for a lot of the skeptics who are presently working hard to tear it down (what a shock) for no good reason beyond stroking their own fragile egos.
/popcorn
Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.
Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.
Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.
Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.
What is scary about it? people either get a decent game or they don't... Not exactly a scary outcome either way. The worst possible outcome is people losing money they gave away freely, knowing full well that could happen. Not exactly earth shattering consequences there.
Post edited by Distopia on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I can't believe some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank. You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt. To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.
Reasoning like this is why MLM is successful and why devs can sit around collecting fat paychecks for years on your dime with little to show for it.
My thoughts: this will probably end up being a good game that will be fun to play, even for a lot of the skeptics who are presently working hard to tear it down (what a shock) for no good reason beyond stroking their own fragile egos.
/popcorn
Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.
Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.
Again, it's not MLM and, second, if you think $1 million is a lot of money then you're insane. This KS probably buys them a year, maybe a little more. It's less than what has already been invested. It's like investing $1000 for the opportunity to make..... One THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Muahahahaha
You our do seem to have a real issue with MLM for someone who doesn't really even understand what MLM is. It's probably all the TV shows telling you it's the devil.
As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.
I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.
I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thanks for the folks who dug up some more info. I'm surprised how people in this thread have rushed to defend Ashes of Creation based on what's been released so far. I'd expect more skepticism that an inexperienced team is going to produce a ground breaking MMORPG.
The Kickstarter model for funding business ventures needs to fade away or evolve into a micro-investment market where participants are given ownership shares. The model today is just too easy to build a scam--making any project on Kickstarter look suspicious. (I'm not saying Ashes of Creation is a scam.) Did you know the original purpose of Kickstarter was to fund arts projects? At least there it made sense.
As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.
I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.
I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.
It's so, so stupid. This is just a group of people trying to make a game. Either support them or don't. The doom and gloom stuff is such monumental bullshit.
OMG, it's a scam, don't support these people trying to make a game we'd probably all love to play! Instead let's shit on them with asinine commentary!!!
Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit.
The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit.
The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games.
I'm not tired of it, these KSer threads are pure gold in terms of entertainment.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit.
The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games.
I'm not tired of it, these KSer threads are pure gold in terms of entertainment.
I can honestly say they have provided more fun than all the Fully Released Kickstarter MMORPGs combined!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
You missed the point, the point was that smaller dev teams are traditionally more efficient than larger ones.
As far as experience goes, again, it's nice to have experienced people run projects but there are also reasons that Brad McQuaid and Chris Roberts no longer "run" the day to day operations of their project. This guy is the creative director. So he might tell a game designer what he'd like to see, and they make that happen. The fact he doesn't have a technical background makes it more difficult to communicate the technical aspects of what he's attempting, but as long as he trusts his technical people, the impact to the overall project is minimal, or should be. NOW! If the management is set up in such a way that he has final say and is inflexible and doesn't work well with others, then you could have a problem. Especially if he's being unrealistic about what he wants to see.
There has been some gameplay videos published as well with combat, etc. Here's one and another.
I'm not trying to insinuate that BECAUSE Intrepid is small that they WILL be good. I'm not saying it's an inevitability. What I AM saying is that PLENTY of games are developed by small teams and that small teams ARE more efficient than a larger team. If you assemble a small team of shitty people then I'm assuming they'll get more shitty work done, per unit, than a group of larger shitty people.
HOWEVER! I would go as far as to say that the CONTENT available at the time of the Ashes Kickstarter, including the gameplay videos attached, they have shown more CONTENT than most, or any, game that I've seen go through Kickstarter recently. The only other game that had as much content available at the time of their Kickstarter was probably Dual Universe.
As far as MLM goes, again, the quality of their product doesn't define it as an MLM. If you think the game will be shit, then you can just say that. There are plenty of examples of MMORPGs which went through Kickstarter and wound up being shitty (SotA and Pathfinder Online come to mind immedaitely). However, just because those games turned out shitty, doesn't mean they were MLM. It means they were shitty. THAT I can respect. If you have zero confidence in the team, that's one thing, but claiming it's an MLM scheme makes you look silly.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You make some great points in this thread; I almost want to believe you, but throwing terms like "known scammer" around really undermines your position.
Being involved in MLM doesn't mean one is involved in a scam. To be successful at it involves a lot of hard work, like most other careers. Unlike a scam, it involves getting people what they pay for.
On the other hand, when a project lead absorbs roughly 1/3 of a startup company's seed capital for personal expenses... that's much closer to the actual definition of a scam.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
And no, I won't hold back or dance around terms when it comes to pyramid schemes. Its is a deeply disgusting model that fills the minds of mostly the young and vulnerable with delusions of grandeur when in reality all it is doing is soliciting a sign-up fee and pushing garbage, overpriced products on friends and family.
When you ask the public for donations for your very first project and this is your history it needs to be called out.
Tell that to the CEO sipping champagne and playing putt-putt on the 50th floor of a high rise.
Pyramid schemes are illegal; MLM isn't. Your ignorance is showing through. Whatever though, I'm not here to educate you.
I just think it's funny how hard you are trying to character assassinate this guy. He's done nothing wrong that I can see.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Is that the same guy asking average folks not sipping champagne to give him money?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Maybe rich + technically not illegal is enough for you but ethics and morality do count for some people especially when he is selling future promises.
Rich = trustworthy/good person seems to come up frequently as a defense for this project and it shows a very troubling trend of wealth/celebrity worship that has embedded into western culture.
Not at all. Rich = trustworthy/good... what? Did you see me pull that card?
On the other hand, speaking of privilege, I understand that certain careers do take a lot of work; direct marketing, of which MLM is just a subset, is one of them. If anything, that he made his way from this into real estate, shows work ethic.
No where am I advocating fraud, which you and most of the internet seem to have magically come to equate with MLM in the last couple years (they are going to have to re-write some textbooks if this is true).
I am not trying to draw any sort of correlation between income and moral standing. I certainly don't think it's an ethical failing to be gainfully employed. If you think it's easy to earn money through MLM then go for it, and bon voyage!
What I implied in my previous post, and @Slapshot1188 deftly riffed on, is that... there's so many different ways to say this... the world needs mechanics, plumbers, and sales clerks more than it needs astrophysics PhDs and high-powered CEOs. All of these serve important roles, but the latter probably wouldn't be careers if the former weren't careers.
You say the general public has every right to verify the background of someone asking for a handout and I agree. I see earning enough through network marketing to get into real estate as a plus. He is a driven individual.
Conversely, some people are handed a check for $145k and use a huge portion of it very irresponsibly. Yet years later the general public hardly bats an eye as his company secures Series A funding.
People that mismanage funds successfully over a long period are usually very good at hiding it (until it just becomes too big to hide). Network marketing, MLM, is not a career where you get to hide from people.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Steve is already on here and has commented previously. Unfortunately he probably has more important work to do than us. He just got a million dollars of funding for his game and is planning how to spend it. For the rest of us, we are probably just hanging out waiting on another SC thread to pop up
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Honestly you're all over the place on this, you did say this earlier. "When it has clues that leads to nefarious schemes you can't blame them really."
It's like you're trying to play this from all sides, at some point the message you're sending just becomes convoluted.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe the final product will not be the unholy saviour of the mmorpg world, but i dont think they will just scam people...
We still remember Greedmonger.
There's no need to apologize, I'm of the mind that people just get far too serious about these things (on both sides), especially when it comes to what someone else does with their own money.
I don't think anyone needs to be censored, I just think folks need to step back, breath and chill. What will be, will be, people are always in such a blind rush to be right or post the most witty dig, it just gets mind boggling.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Get real.
This thread raises very specific and direct concerns about the competence of management and its ability to deliver its stated goals.
Sure its gets hyperbolic, welcome to the internet. Crying about the mere fact that people are criticizing the campaign and demanding the people be shut down and banned just shows how weak your position is.
Video from 2 months ago:
Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.
Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.
What is scary about it? people either get a decent game or they don't... Not exactly a scary outcome either way. The worst possible outcome is people losing money they gave away freely, knowing full well that could happen. Not exactly earth shattering consequences there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Again, it's not MLM and, second, if you think $1 million is a lot of money then you're insane. This KS probably buys them a year, maybe a little more. It's less than what has already been invested. It's like investing $1000 for the opportunity to make..... One THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Muahahahaha
You our do seem to have a real issue with MLM for someone who doesn't really even understand what MLM is. It's probably all the TV shows telling you it's the devil.
Crazkanuk
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I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The Kickstarter model for funding business ventures needs to fade away or evolve into a micro-investment market where participants are given ownership shares. The model today is just too easy to build a scam--making any project on Kickstarter look suspicious. (I'm not saying Ashes of Creation is a scam.) Did you know the original purpose of Kickstarter was to fund arts projects? At least there it made sense.
Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit.
The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm not tired of it, these KSer threads are pure gold in terms of entertainment.
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