Is it Possible to Restrict One Computer to One Account in an MMORPG?

cantankerousmage

I know Neverwinter makes you verify your machine code when you make an account or make a new account.  Is it possible to assign a particular identifier to that machine code?  I think you can change the name of your machine code, true.  But if you changed the name of your machine code and perhaps make a new account that way, then I think it would be possible to delete the old account or at least restrict access to it.  Am I wrong?  Or this some other way to restrict a single computer to a single account on an online game?  I'm curious.

Quizzical

You could try to restrict it by MAC address, as changing that would typically require changing at least firmware if not hardware.

But this seems to me like the sort of thing where what you're willing to do depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  Do you have some particular scenario in mind?

Quizzical

Also, what you've seen in Neverwinter is just a software thing.  It's an account security feature, to try to make it so that if someone gets your username and password but doesn't have control of your e-mail address, he can't steal your account.

saintriku92

@quizzical, you can actually spoof your mac addy fairly easy using regedit. atleast from my experience ive been able to spoof my network adapters Mac addy easily. takes less than 1 minute

cantankerousmage

Quizzical said:

Also, what you've seen in Neverwinter is just a software thing.  It's an account security feature, to try to make it so that if someone gets your username and password but doesn't have control of your e-mail address, he can't steal your account.

Yes, I understand that part.

cantankerousmage

Quizzical said:

You could try to restrict it by MAC address, as changing that would typically require changing at least firmware if not hardware.

But this seems to me like the sort of thing where what you're willing to do depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  Do you have some particular scenario in mind?

Well, I would like to design an MMORPG that centers around Realm vs Realm.  Only 2 characters per account, both of whom must belong to members of the same realm.  The player could choose to leave the realm with the possibility of joining another realm, but this would effect the other character on the account as well.

I want to make it more difficult for players to create accounts and characters in order to spy on realms to which their main character does not have any loyalty towards.

Can't stop people from using another computer, of course, but I'd at least like to make spying more difficult if it's not actually done by trying to infiltrate a realm as a spy in-game.

I suppose the only other way would be to ask people to legally identify themselves when they make an account.  Something that probably most people wouldn't want to do or feel comfortable doing.  Even though they do often have to type in their real names (or whatever name is on the credit card) when they make purchases from a game company online.

Manestream

It would give problems when someone upgrades any hardware or gets a new Computer in my opinion.

P.S Then there would also be a loss of sales/subscriptions to those that like to multibox. This brings in a fair ammount to them too. Though me i just have enough with the 1 account on an mmo.

rounner

You can query computer serial numbers etc but virtualised computers can appear as separate hardware or you could use bare metal computer that spoofs pretty much any query by rewriting any called functions. Comes down to how motivated you are.

Quizzical

cantankerousmage said:

Quizzical said:

You could try to restrict it by MAC address, as changing that would typically require changing at least firmware if not hardware.

But this seems to me like the sort of thing where what you're willing to do depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  Do you have some particular scenario in mind?

Well, I would like to design an MMORPG that centers around Realm vs Realm.  Only 2 characters per account, both of whom must belong to members of the same realm.  The player could choose to leave the realm with the possibility of joining another realm, but this would effect the other character on the account as well.

I want to make it more difficult for players to create accounts and characters in order to spy on realms to which their main character does not have any loyalty towards.

Can't stop people from using another computer, of course, but I'd at least like to make spying more difficult if it's not actually done by trying to infiltrate a realm as a spy in-game.

I suppose the only other way would be to ask people to legally identify themselves when they make an account.  Something that probably most people wouldn't want to do or feel comfortable doing.  Even though they do often have to type in their real names (or whatever name is on the credit card) when they make purchases from a game company online.

What if there are multiple people in the same house who share a computer?  Does only one of them get to play your game?

And then having multiple computers completely breaks your system even if you could perfectly restrict it to one account per computer.  If all you're doing is spying on the other side, even a low power laptop that gets 10 frames per second at minimum settings will get the job done.

Quizzical

saintriku92 said:

@quizzical, you can actually spoof your mac addy fairly easy using regedit. atleast from my experience ive been able to spoof my network adapters Mac addy easily. takes less than 1 minute

I actually hesitated to make that post because I wasn't entirely sure.  It sounds like I may have been mistaken.  Still, changing your MAC address without messing up your networking capabilities is something that most people wouldn't know how to do.

FlyByKnight

Don't some countries have it where email/logins are tied to government ID, and many services will only accept this email/login? It makes users much more accountable for their online actions. Will never happen in the US (it NEEDS to). I see that as the only way to truly restrict anything online. Too much spoofery going on out there.

Wellspring

EQ1 did it on their no box progression servers. May have not been fool proof, but certainly better than nothing. 

laxie

You could also add spying as a mechanic into your game. That way, people will be encouraged to spy through the approved means and you get to control how it happens.

cantankerousmage

Manestream said:

It would give problems when someone upgrades any hardware or gets a new Computer in my opinion.

P.S Then there would also be a loss of sales/subscriptions to those that like to multibox. This brings in a fair ammount to them too. Though me i just have enough with the 1 account on an mmo.

Just for the sake of argument, I'll post an idea that I posted on another thread.  There could be a means to change the IP address or machine code if you move or get a new computer, but there should be a process to that.

But after reading what other people posted here, there may be too many ways of getting around it for it be effective. 

If someone is a skilled programmer and wants to cheat a system online, there may or not be anything you can do about it without a government ID.  Which I'm not really in favor of.  Too many negative things become possible from forcing people to officially identify themselves whenever they log-on to the Internet.  Whether or not those outweigh the negatives of allowing people to be totally anonymous on the Internet without much trouble, is debatable.  I trust governments less than I trust individuals.  Of course, I don't trust the vast majority of individuals much either.

cantankerousmage

Quizzical said:

cantankerousmage said:

Quizzical said:

You could try to restrict it by MAC address, as changing that would typically require changing at least firmware if not hardware.

But this seems to me like the sort of thing where what you're willing to do depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  Do you have some particular scenario in mind?

Well, I would like to design an MMORPG that centers around Realm vs Realm.  Only 2 characters per account, both of whom must belong to members of the same realm.  The player could choose to leave the realm with the possibility of joining another realm, but this would effect the other character on the account as well.

I want to make it more difficult for players to create accounts and characters in order to spy on realms to which their main character does not have any loyalty towards.

Can't stop people from using another computer, of course, but I'd at least like to make spying more difficult if it's not actually done by trying to infiltrate a realm as a spy in-game.

I suppose the only other way would be to ask people to legally identify themselves when they make an account.  Something that probably most people wouldn't want to do or feel comfortable doing.  Even though they do often have to type in their real names (or whatever name is on the credit card) when they make purchases from a game company online.

What if there are multiple people in the same house who share a computer?  Does only one of them get to play your game?

And then having multiple computers completely breaks your system even if you could perfectly restrict it to one account per computer.  If all you're doing is spying on the other side, even a low power laptop that gets 10 frames per second at minimum settings will get the job done.

Well, I do think the majority of serious gamers tend to hog computer time anyway.  And, yes, using another computer breaks the system, but not as many people have multiple computers as only have one they can use for gaming.  Still, I totally see your point, and I understand that.

cantankerousmage

Torval said:

Quizzical said:

saintriku92 said:

@quizzical, you can actually spoof your mac addy fairly easy using regedit. atleast from my experience ive been able to spoof my network adapters Mac addy easily. takes less than 1 minute

I actually hesitated to make that post because I wasn't entirely sure.  It sounds like I may have been mistaken.  Still, changing your MAC address without messing up your networking capabilities is something that most people wouldn't know how to do.

It's also the same reasons most MMO anti-cheat software doesn't let VM software run in the background. You can literally set the MAC on each VM as easily as entering a valid series in the text box. It does have to be valid though.


With the sophisticated means of anonymizing that is easily available now I think it would be a waste of effort. You're basically trying to fight a billion dollar gold farming industry because they use the same techniques to run tons of the same clients from the same hardware or network.

And with AWS, Azure, and virtual servers? Good luck.

It may be better to find ways that make spying with alt accounts more frustrating and less reliable. You don't need to prevent something just make it expensive, inconvenient, and unattractive enough to deter people. Then you can moderate on a more personal level for those that still try and subvert the system.

Here's some other ideas that occurred to me to address certain issues with MMORPGs which were raised in another thread.

I would also get rid of all chat besides Shout, Say, and Whisper.  Unless you have certain characters with telepathic abilities or spells, no tells.  Everything you say can (and can only) be heard by those within earshot, even if you're using a mic.  There are emotes for non-verbal communication and hand-signals.  Whispering can still be overheard, it is not telepathic.  I believe there are ways to block third-party voice chat and text programs.  You can't stop people from using phones or cell phones, but it's a little more difficult to organize a zerg that way.  And you can't should loud enough for an entire zone to hear you unless the zone is very small or you have some magical, psionic, or technological means of doing so.  Some characters could learn sign language to communicate too, which other characters couldn't read if they didn't know sign language.  Speaking in another tongue could also be a means of not being overheard by characters who don't understand the language.

Gold sellers and spammers can be dealt with by hiring players to report them.  They could be paid in free game time (in a subscription game) if they spend 15 minutes a day (3-5 days a week) reporting the spammers.

As for spoiler sites, online maps, and walkthroughs, is there some legal method of dealing with them or not?

I would really also like to make an MMORPG that is restricted to 18+ adults.  Not sure if there's a realistic way of doing that online though.

Manipulation of immortals/gamemasters might be a problem, but any good gamemaster should be trained to do a thorough investigation, get both sides of a story, and consult with other gamemasters if necessary and the issue is a serious one.

Not sure what you mean by eliminating outsiders.  And by abuse of clans, do you mean verbally or by griefing/ganking?

Bots and bugs are a problem that need to be dealt with by better programmers and programming.  And better practices.  If they were actually paying and paying attention to players who test their games for them, more bugs and exploits might get reported and dealt with. 

I'm not 100% sure about any of this.  Constructive feedback is welcome.  Though I can't stop you from posting non-constructive feedback either.

cantankerousmage

laxie said:

You could also add spying as a mechanic into your game. That way, people will be encouraged to spy through the approved means and you get to control how it happens.

That is what I'd like to do.  But I understand that some people will try to cheat a system or mechanic just because they can.  Regardless of whether there's any benefit to it or not.

laxie

cantankerousmage said:

laxie said:

You could also add spying as a mechanic into your game. That way, people will be encouraged to spy through the approved means and you get to control how it happens.

That is what I'd like to do.  But I understand that some people will try to cheat a system or mechanic just because they can.  Regardless of whether there's any benefit to it or not.

In that case, you could make it crystal clear that it's not allowed. And punish the offenders heavily. If you have a spying mechanic and a player breaks the rule anyway, I think it's  a clear violation of against the game community as a whole.

On another note, Korean MMOs often require ID card numbers on registration. That way accounts are linked to physical people. The downside is those can be stolen or forged. It also adds barrier of entry for the majority of people who won't disrupt your rules.

Quizzical

cantankerousmage said:

Here's some other ideas that occurred to me to address certain issues with MMORPGs which were raised in another thread.

I would also get rid of all chat besides Shout, Say, and Whisper.  Unless you have certain characters with telepathic abilities or spells, no tells.  Everything you say can (and can only) be heard by those within earshot, even if you're using a mic.  There are emotes for non-verbal communication and hand-signals.  Whispering can still be overheard, it is not telepathic.  I believe there are ways to block third-party voice chat and text programs.  You can't stop people from using phones or cell phones, but it's a little more difficult to organize a zerg that way.  And you can't should loud enough for an entire zone to hear you unless the zone is very small or you have some magical, psionic, or technological means of doing so.  Some characters could learn sign language to communicate too, which other characters couldn't read if they didn't know sign language.  Speaking in another tongue could also be a means of not being overheard by characters who don't understand the language.

Gold sellers and spammers can be dealt with by hiring players to report them.  They could be paid in free game time (in a subscription game) if they spend 15 minutes a day (3-5 days a week) reporting the spammers.

As for spoiler sites, online maps, and walkthroughs, is there some legal method of dealing with them or not?

I would really also like to make an MMORPG that is restricted to 18+ adults.  Not sure if there's a realistic way of doing that online though.

Manipulation of immortals/gamemasters might be a problem, but any good gamemaster should be trained to do a thorough investigation, get both sides of a story, and consult with other gamemasters if necessary and the issue is a serious one.

Not sure what you mean by eliminating outsiders.  And by abuse of clans, do you mean verbally or by griefing/ganking?

Bots and bugs are a problem that need to be dealt with by better programmers and programming.  And better practices.  If they were actually paying and paying attention to players who test their games for them, more bugs and exploits might get reported and dealt with. 

I'm not 100% sure about any of this.  Constructive feedback is welcome.  Though I can't stop you from posting non-constructive feedback either.

Crippling in-game chat will just lead to players relying on external chat programs--and give a larger advantage to players who organize that than those who rely only on in-game chat tools.

Hiring players to report gold spammers is a complete waste.  If you're hoping your humans can outwork the gold spammers' bots, you're going to be disappointed.  If you want to beat the gold spammers, it's going to have to be your software beating their software.

Cleffy

As part of your initial account creation process, you can create a special hardware key that is encrypted in a USB drive. Then require the USB drive to be plugged in when launching a title. It also significantly reduces login time as there would be no need for the user to login.

derpderpa23

Chat is a way of communication both positive and negative I agree on Quizzical that disabling in-game chat will eventually make players dependent on other ways.

cantankerousmage

OG_Zorvan said:

FlyByKnight said:

...(it NEEDS to). 

No, it does not.

Agreed.

craftseeker

Cleffy said:

As part of your initial account creation process, you can create a special hardware key that is encrypted in a USB drive. Then require the USB drive to be plugged in when launching a title. It also significantly reduces login time as there would be no need for the user to login.

That actually doesn't address the question. You could create multiple USB keys for the same computer.

cantankerousmage

laxie said:

cantankerousmage said:

laxie said:

You could also add spying as a mechanic into your game. That way, people will be encouraged to spy through the approved means and you get to control how it happens.

That is what I'd like to do.  But I understand that some people will try to cheat a system or mechanic just because they can.  Regardless of whether there's any benefit to it or not.

In that case, you could make it crystal clear that it's not allowed. And punish the offenders heavily. If you have a spying mechanic and a player breaks the rule anyway, I think it's  a clear violation of against the game community as a whole.

On another note, Korean MMOs often require ID card numbers on registration. That way accounts are linked to physical people. The downside is those can be stolen or forged. It also adds barrier of entry for the majority of people who won't disrupt your rules.

I suppose banning people who break the rules of infiltration/spying could be attempted.  Not sure how effective it would be though.  Guess we wouldn't know for sure until we tried.

Vrika

FlyByKnight said:

Don't some countries have it where email/logins are tied to government ID, and many services will only accept this email/login? It makes users much more accountable for their online actions. Will never happen in the US (it NEEDS to). I see that as the only way to truly restrict anything online. Too much spoofery going on out there.

Yes. Estonia's electronic ID card is maybe the best system. Sweden, Finland and I think also Norway have widely used system where banks provide electronic identification services strong enough that even government accepts and uses them.

The systems work well enough that a game could use them to verify identity, but they've got too few users for an MMORPG.


I'm personally hoping that maybe someday within a decade we'd get a no-cheat server that requires strong electronic identification to some game.

craftseeker

cantankerousmage said:

laxie said:

You could also add spying as a mechanic into your game. That way, people will be encouraged to spy through the approved means and you get to control how it happens.

That is what I'd like to do.  But I understand that some people will try to cheat a system or mechanic just because they can.  Regardless of whether there's any benefit to it or not.

Spying has been a feature of human society for a very long time (pre-roman). Allowing people to have characters on both sides of a faction divide simulates reality quite well.