As for as a game suckering anyone in, we should have Internet access if we're playing an online game. There's probably a description of what kind of features a game contains somewhere on the Internet, correct? If I don't choose to exercise my ability to read about a game before I choose to play it, do I really have a right to complain about anything in the game?
"LOL I GANK YOU OVER AND OVER AS YOU QUEST AND I'm LEVEL 110 AND YOU ARE LEVEL 15. YOU ARE STUPID NOOB AND LEAVE THE GAME"
Sad but true. However, these people all chose a pvp server. That's how it works, especially in WoW, so there's no reason to complain. Just roll a pve server and be done with it.
can't argue much with that. Personally I still played PvP despite the 110 gankers, when I did WoW, but that is because the PVE part of the game bored me too much and was WAY too easy...literally...was on Wyrmstooth accord and was falling asleep as I played lol. But the PVE being too easy in WoW and maybe PvE in MMOs in general being easy, probably be another topic than what the thread is about. But that is why I still played PvP servers in WoW despite the people going around ganking solely to grief someone and kill them over and over as they respawn. Made it "challenging".
I like EVE PvP really well, and GW2 PvP is pretty fun...but wow was there some epic moments in EVE PvP. From 1 vs 1, to 1 vs 6 (his friends), to 8 vs 6...and finally led to this massive space battle between two medium sized corporations and it happened randomly out of nowhere. Probably my favorite moment in EVE, that I'll eventually post in a different topic more suited for it.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
OP, there are NO remotely successful pve only mmorpgs. It maybe that developers recognizing and are looking for ways to appease care bears while remaining financially viable.
The game is not about power, or endless gear score, it's pretty horizontal after 80th, which you can make in a week with casual effort. Also a match is a week long, you get what you put in, there are ample rewards in WvW, with more and more being added, but you gotta play to get them, not just be on the winning team.
What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
Well, that's not exactly fair. One could ask "why is it every pve player wants to do away with pvp in pvp focused mmo's.
As far as I see it, they don't seem to want anything to do with PvP Focused MMO's, they simply want good, fun, solid MMO's that are PvE focused, and by and large, would be more then happy if they never had to deal with PvP at all ever.
Unlike PvP players that seem to want to turn every MMO into a PvP game, or have to have some kind of PvP in it.
But a lot of pvp players want nothing to do with pve. Heck, I remember some players grumbling in Lineage 2 during a raid that they hated it and just wanted it to end so they could go pvp.
So of "pvp players seem to want to turn every mmo into a pvp game" how is it that pve players don't want to turn pvp oriented games into pve games?
Black Desert? There are many pve players who want separate pve servers. Aion? Same thing, huge complaints. Archeage? Can't tell you how muc wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth when they had to deal with pvp players and wanted to turn off pvp.
It seems that it's just each side looking over at the other side and pointing fingers.
To be fair, BDO suckers you in with 10 levels of Pure PvE Content, and does not make it very clear that it is a PvP game. BDO, is exactly the kind of trap I am talking about. Why make a game with a robust PvE element, it's stating is PvE focused, just to do a bait and switch and make it a PvP game.
Why would this be viewed as a good idea. case in point, Imagine if you played a MMO, it's PvP based game, like Albion, or Crowfall, and then.. BAM.. you hit 10th level, and you go from being a PvP Front Line Solder to an Engineer, and everything is now PvE, with very little PvP going on at all, its about crafting castle walls, and building siege engines for the new players to use.
Imagine how much that would suck... that is what BDO did to it's PvE players.
I think with that level of bait and switch, they have a right to gripe, but a bigger question would be, why would any gamer think that was a good idea?
I see your point but I just don't buy it.
Before I played Lineage 2 (my first mmo) I did research, I learned it was open pvp, that it was grindy, that it was click to move, etc. When I logged in I knew what to expected. I knew money was going to be hard to earn in the game.
When I played Aion, same thing, I looked beyond what the developers/community people were saying and figured out exactly what was going to happen to me as a player.
Black Desert? Followed, learned that it changed from early betas and knew what the game was going to be about.
As far as "bait and switch" I don't really think that is what's going on. I think the developers "think" that 1 - 50 (western version) is learning the game, becoming facile with the controls, learning the systems and then you pvp. I understand it was at level 10 "originally" where one would then do pvp.
I think they want to make a robust game where there are lots of things to do. They aren't saying "this is only a pvp game/this is only a pve game".
Players need to do their due diligence and research, figure it out beforehand. My opinion is that if you haven't sat down and learned what the game is about from level 1 until cap then you are doing yourself a disservice and wasting your time. Unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised. I don't really think most gamers are.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What I mean by cheese, it's just more personal rewards for your character mostly. It has no real political or territorial effect on the game world, right? There's no territory exchanging hands or anything. Resources are just for keeps and towers. And you can never really defeat the other side.
What I mean by cheese, it's just more personal rewards for your character mostly. It has no real political or territorial effect on the game world, right? There's no territory exchanging hands or anything. Resources are just for keeps and towers. And you can never really defeat the other side.
Nothing like breaking an alliance then watch guilds crumble 1 by 1
What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
Well, that's not exactly fair. One could ask "why is it every pve player wants to do away with pvp in pvp focused mmo's.
As far as I see it, they don't seem to want anything to do with PvP Focused MMO's, they simply want good, fun, solid MMO's that are PvE focused, and by and large, would be more then happy if they never had to deal with PvP at all ever.
Unlike PvP players that seem to want to turn every MMO into a PvP game, or have to have some kind of PvP in it.
But a lot of pvp players want nothing to do with pve. Heck, I remember some players grumbling in Lineage 2 during a raid that they hated it and just wanted it to end so they could go pvp.
So of "pvp players seem to want to turn every mmo into a pvp game" how is it that pve players don't want to turn pvp oriented games into pve games?
Black Desert? There are many pve players who want separate pve servers. Aion? Same thing, huge complaints. Archeage? Can't tell you how muc wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth when they had to deal with pvp players and wanted to turn off pvp.
It seems that it's just each side looking over at the other side and pointing fingers.
To be fair, BDO suckers you in with 10 levels of Pure PvE Content, and does not make it very clear that it is a PvP game. BDO, is exactly the kind of trap I am talking about. Why make a game with a robust PvE element, it's stating is PvE focused, just to do a bait and switch and make it a PvP game.
Why would this be viewed as a good idea. case in point, Imagine if you played a MMO, it's PvP based game, like Albion, or Crowfall, and then.. BAM.. you hit 10th level, and you go from being a PvP Front Line Solder to an Engineer, and everything is now PvE, with very little PvP going on at all, its about crafting castle walls, and building siege engines for the new players to use.
Imagine how much that would suck... that is what BDO did to it's PvE players.
I think with that level of bait and switch, they have a right to gripe, but a bigger question would be, why would any gamer think that was a good idea?
I see your point but I just don't buy it.
Before I played Lineage 2 (my first mmo) I did research, I learned it was open pvp, that it was grindy, that it was click to move, etc. When I logged in I knew what to expected. I knew money was going to be hard to earn in the game.
When I played Aion, same thing, I looked beyond what the developers/community people were saying and figured out exactly what was going to happen to me as a player.
Black Desert? Followed, learned that it changed from early betas and knew what the game was going to be about.
As far as "bait and switch" I don't really think that is what's going on. I think the developers "think" that 1 - 50 (western version) is learning the game, becoming facile with the controls, learning the systems and then you pvp. I understand it was at level 10 "originally" where one would then do pvp.
I think they want to make a robust game where there are lots of things to do. They aren't saying "this is only a pvp game/this is only a pve game".
Players need to do their due diligence and research, figure it out beforehand. My opinion is that if you haven't sat down and learned what the game is about from level 1 until cap then you are doing yourself a disservice and wasting your time. Unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised. I don't really think most gamers are.
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you, as a player, I am looking to play a game, not apply for college, I should not need to do 'research', I should be able to look at their opening page, and have a solid idea what this game is about and offers. The game developers should make it super clear exactly what it is about.
If it's about PvP, it should not try to pander off that it has things for PvE players, as that is just duping them into a what is, essentially, a PvP game.
Which, makes me wonder.. why do PvP players think that is acceptable?
To put it simply, I just want the world to make sense; the "PvP / PvE" division draws my attention to the fact that I'm playing a game with a stentorian violation of my willing suspension of disbelief. This is one of the reasons I stopped playing WoW; the drumroll/rimshot 'okay now you are doing PvP' effect.
I'd prefer it if the world I played in followed certain natural physical (and physiological) laws with consequences, unpredictable or not; I don't want to be in a "PvP battleground", I want to be in a destabilized political territory or a neighborhood that has fallen on hard economic times I had better watch my back in, and I want it to be because of events that actually transpired within the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
So that they have a place to hunt easy carebear targets because they are bad.
I always prefer fighting someone more skilled than I am; I learn more that way.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you, as a player, I am looking to play a game, not apply for college, I should not need to do 'research', I should be able to look at their opening page, and have a solid idea what this game is about and offers. The game developers should make it super clear exactly what it is about.
If it's about PvP, it should not try to pander off that it has things for PvE players, as that is just duping them into a what is, essentially, a PvP game.
Which, makes me wonder.. why do PvP players think that is acceptable?
I'm not sure what in life doesn't require some research "unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised".
Here's the thing, many times when I see a complaint it's because someone didn't bother finding out what they were getting into.
And you have to sort of pick your level of involvement. If "no pvp" is your thing then spend the x amount of minutes required to find that out.
Otherwise what you are saying is "well, I see things I like there couldn't POSSIBLY be anything that I dislike ... WHAT?!?!?! PVP?!?!?!? I've been tricked!
And that's just ridiculous when all one had to do was figure a few things out beforehand. Being informed is not applying for college. It's about being a responsible and informed consumer.
And as far as your last paragrah, pvp players aren't black and white in their likes and dislikes all the time. I love pvp and I also enjoy pve and fishing for some reason. Why should I have to settle for a game that just has pvp?
No, sorry, I followed Black Desert and in no way shape or form do I think people were being tricked. It was just too obvious for people who spent a small amount of time so that they were clear about what they were buying. So again, if you or anyone is buying something without figuring out what is involved then who is really responsible? Be an informed consumer and you will have less nasty surprises and more positive ones.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you, as a player, I am looking to play a game, not apply for college, I should not need to do 'research', I should be able to look at their opening page, and have a solid idea what this game is about and offers. The game developers should make it super clear exactly what it is about.
If it's about PvP, it should not try to pander off that it has things for PvE players, as that is just duping them into a what is, essentially, a PvP game.
Which, makes me wonder.. why do PvP players think that is acceptable?
I'm not sure what in life doesn't require some research "unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised".
Here's the thing, many times when I see a complaint it's because someone didn't bother finding out what they were getting into.
And you have to sort of pick your level of involvement. If "no pvp" is your thing then spend the x amount of minutes required to find that out.
Otherwise what you are saying is "well, I see things I like there couldn't POSSIBLY be anything that I dislike ... WHAT?!?!?! PVP?!?!?!? I've been tricked!
And that's just ridiculous when all one had to do was figure a few things out beforehand. Being informed is not applying for college. It's about being a responsible and informed consumer.
And as far as your last paragrah, pvp players aren't black and white in their likes and dislikes all the time. I love pvp and I also enjoy pve and fishing for some reason. Why should I have to settle for a game that just has pvp?
No, sorry, I followed Black Desert and in no way shape or form do I think people were being tricked. It was just too obvious for people who spent a small amount of time so that they were clear about what they were buying. So again, if you or anyone is buying something without figuring out what is involved then who is really responsible? Be an informed consumer and you will have less nasty surprises and more positive ones.
No, what I mean is, f your game is about PvP, not putting that out, an saying right on the opening page, you know, where you tell me all the fun features of your "Vast Open Worlds" "No Classes" "Skill based Combat" "Mounts!" "Gliding!" "Fishing!" "Build your own farm" 'Tame horses!".. all that fun stuff that they want to tell you, I don't think it's asking too much, that in the middle of all that hype, you should mention if there are things I should know about, like.. oh "Other players killing you and looting your corpse" for example...
I mean, would you like it if a game was all hype and forgot to mention little things, like "OH yah, if you so much as cuss in this game we will ban you"
If you're gonna make a PvP game, own up to that, say 'Hey this is PVP!" don't try to down play that, or conveniently forget to mention that on the opening page, otherwise, it's exactly as I said.. "Why you trying to sucker PvE players into your PvP games?"
If it's PvP.. make that very clear from the start, so everyone that does not feel the itch to be ganked, can move on something else.. is that really asking too much?
I think the simple answer for a lot of people is "Targets."
Personally though, the reason I want PvEers in PvP games is because it takes all kinds to make an authentic world. A world populated entirely with murderous cutthroats is not authentic or immersive. It's Call of Duty Online with gear and level disparity.
If the central focus of the game is ganking then PvEers are not needed.
If the central focus of the game is a rich immersive world then all types of players are needed.
Of course I want PvE players in my PvP games, they complete the circle. Also many PvE centric players like PvP they just don't like being on the losing side.
Anyways one of the big reasons I like PvE players, economy and politics. The PvE players grind and venture into the world, they bolster up the guilds and help them claim territories if its a thing. The PvP players tend to do this sometimes but a lot of them are there for protection, people mock zerg PvP but what most don't realize in that zerg are elite PvP groups controlling the flow.
As long as the game supports it, there is a wonderful balance between PvE and PvP, they work off each other. I think Lineage 2 had a great balance, as an aside I consider crafting/marketeering PvE. I almost always spent my team marketeering in Lineage 2 before jumping into the scene. It isn't something everyone can do or has the patience to do. However it is a skill that fits into the balance.
In todays modern MMO, I don't understand why people like strict PvE. It doesn't offer anything.
To answer your question, it offers a co-op environment that goes at their pace, where players are free to enjoy the game, without someone else, to put it bluntly.. raining on their parade.
If they want to go out and harvest nodes, collect ingredients, kill some mobs, they don't want to deal with someone coming along and just kill them in the middle of that.
PvE, It makes the game more relaxed, and a lot of players are older, believe this or not, the average player age is like around 26(ish) by this time, most are out of school, they have jobs, family, life, all kinds of stress.. they play games to unwind, get a bauble here or there, feel like they accomplished something, and call it day, be to bed by 9 PM because they have to take the kids to school in the morning.
Getting ganked and having trolls and trash talkers thwart them, tea bag their corpse, all night where they log off frustrated with making zero progress or even at a net loss.. does not fit into that plan.
That is why people like straight up PvE games, they play games to unwind and escape from the frustrations of life, and MMO's where they can socialize, group with friends, or just chat while they craft are ideal play grounds for them. as they don't have to deal with jerks ruining their play time.
I get that you may not play MMO's for those same reasons, so I suspect that you will not understand them, or even respect them, but the ghost towns of many PvP Centric MMO's, speaks for itself, which is why all these new MMO's make such a huge deal of all the "PvE" stuff they offer, but it's really just to sucker PvE players into them, and drop a steaming pile of PvP crap into what could have been a fun PvE game.
I want a game with a good flag system (swg like) where all can co-exist without interfering with each other's preference.
I think flagging systems are the worst way to do this. If I am out gathering, I will never flag up for PvP. I will only flag up when I actually want a fight meaning I am fully prepared and have little or nothing to lose.
But that's not the point of Open World PvP games. Open World PvP games should have a focus on total war. You should be able to hit your enemy where it hurts, target their economic infrastructure etc.
This is far better achieved by PvP zones. Areas with high value gathering etc. but that are open to PvP. Control of those zones is hotly contested and sees meaningful wars.
"But why would I as a PvEer play a game where I don't have access to every zone without the threat of PvP?!"
In your standard MMO gear is only replaced during the process of upgrading gear. In your standard Full Loot PvP game gear functions as consumables. For instance in Darkfall I would not wear any gear that took me more then 30 minutes to acquire the resources to create into general PvP situations and would churn through multiple full sets of gear on any day I did much PvP. This wasn't a big deal to me as all gear degraded to nothing over time through general usage.
Where do you think the economy is better? In a game where only newbs need crafted gear or in a game where constant gear replacements are a necessity on every level of play?
War is good for business. The existence of PvP areas is good for anyone who loves economy, and if you need resources only found in PvP zones you just buy them.
If having Open World PvP zones in a game where you can also stick to safe areas is offensive to you, then you can always go play that game with no Open World PvP zones and gear loss where the crafting economy matters. Like... Oh wait. There isn't one. Because instanced raids and PvP arenas as end game content don't drive economies like wars and gear loss do.
If having Open World PvP zones in a game where you can also stick to safe areas is offensive to you, then you can always go play that game with no Open World PvP zones and gear loss where the crafting economy matters. Like... Oh wait. There isn't one. Because instanced raids and PvP arenas as end game content don't drive economies like wars and gear loss do.
Sure they do, GW2 uses a combination of Time gated components for top gear items which drives people to buy items when they don't want to wait a week to have to make it themselves, which keeps the crafting profitable, as well as heavy material sinks for both guild upgrades and legendary items, which makes harvesting profitable.
Not to mention consumables, that are used for encounters,
Truth is, as long as the game is growing, GW2, has a great set up for crafting, as there will always be tat next person that wants a legendary,.
You only need things like decaying gear (or gear loss) in a game that has become stagnant, or in decline, to keep the market up.
What I mean by cheese, it's just more personal rewards for your character mostly. It has no real political or territorial effect on the game world, right? There's no territory exchanging hands or anything. Resources are just for keeps and towers. And you can never really defeat the other side.
When WvW Started, there were 8 Tiers, with 3 Servers Per Tier. with each server having its own glicko scale, as such, winning and losing would move you up and down the tiers till you met your match, unless you hit the bottom and ended up getting rolled every week.
As for a means to fully conqueror an opposing server, if they had done something like that, I am sure by the end of the first year, Jade Quarry would have destroyed everyone, and that would have ended WvW, which seems like a waste o fan entire game mode to me.
Which might be why they did not do that.
They have since cut it down to 4 tiers, and merged the weaker servers with the stronger ones, (I suppose that could be viewed as being vanquished), but the match ups are not always the same, like for example, Eredon Terrace might merge to Jade Quarry one week, and be teamed up with Black Gate the next.
Again, they have changed WvW since I left, so I am not sure if that is the case anymore.
Comments
can't argue much with that. Personally I still played PvP despite the 110 gankers, when I did WoW, but that is because the PVE part of the game bored me too much and was WAY too easy...literally...was on Wyrmstooth accord and was falling asleep as I played lol. But the PVE being too easy in WoW and maybe PvE in MMOs in general being easy, probably be another topic than what the thread is about. But that is why I still played PvP servers in WoW despite the people going around ganking solely to grief someone and kill them over and over as they respawn. Made it "challenging".
I like EVE PvP really well, and GW2 PvP is pretty fun...but wow was there some epic moments in EVE PvP. From 1 vs 1, to 1 vs 6 (his friends), to 8 vs 6...and finally led to this massive space battle between two medium sized corporations and it happened randomly out of nowhere. Probably my favorite moment in EVE, that I'll eventually post in a different topic more suited for it.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Looks like they just give you cheese.
It is because most ordinary "pvpers" are not that good and just prefer can-crushing.
It is not just in games. You see this in most sports at amateur level too. Most don't care about self-improvement they just wanna can-crush.
The game is not about power, or endless gear score, it's pretty horizontal after 80th, which you can make in a week with casual effort. Also a match is a week long, you get what you put in, there are ample rewards in WvW, with more and more being added, but you gotta play to get them, not just be on the winning team.
I see your point but I just don't buy it.
Before I played Lineage 2 (my first mmo) I did research, I learned it was open pvp, that it was grindy, that it was click to move, etc. When I logged in I knew what to expected. I knew money was going to be hard to earn in the game.
When I played Aion, same thing, I looked beyond what the developers/community people were saying and figured out exactly what was going to happen to me as a player.
Black Desert? Followed, learned that it changed from early betas and knew what the game was going to be about.
As far as "bait and switch" I don't really think that is what's going on. I think the developers "think" that 1 - 50 (western version) is learning the game, becoming facile with the controls, learning the systems and then you pvp. I understand it was at level 10 "originally" where one would then do pvp.
I think they want to make a robust game where there are lots of things to do. They aren't saying "this is only a pvp game/this is only a pve game".
Players need to do their due diligence and research, figure it out beforehand. My opinion is that if you haven't sat down and learned what the game is about from level 1 until cap then you are doing yourself a disservice and wasting your time. Unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised. I don't really think most gamers are.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Nothing like breaking an alliance then watch guilds crumble 1 by 1
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you, as a player, I am looking to play a game, not apply for college, I should not need to do 'research', I should be able to look at their opening page, and have a solid idea what this game is about and offers. The game developers should make it super clear exactly what it is about.
If it's about PvP, it should not try to pander off that it has things for PvE players, as that is just duping them into a what is, essentially, a PvP game.
Which, makes me wonder.. why do PvP players think that is acceptable?
Ha ha, j/k...
To put it simply, I just want the world to make sense; the "PvP / PvE" division draws my attention to the fact that I'm playing a game with a stentorian violation of my willing suspension of disbelief. This is one of the reasons I stopped playing WoW; the drumroll/rimshot 'okay now you are doing PvP' effect.
I'd prefer it if the world I played in followed certain natural physical (and physiological) laws with consequences, unpredictable or not; I don't want to be in a "PvP battleground", I want to be in a destabilized political territory or a neighborhood that has fallen on hard economic times I had better watch my back in, and I want it to be because of events that actually transpired within the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I always prefer fighting someone more skilled than I am; I learn more that way.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Here's the thing, many times when I see a complaint it's because someone didn't bother finding out what they were getting into.
And you have to sort of pick your level of involvement. If "no pvp" is your thing then spend the x amount of minutes required to find that out.
Otherwise what you are saying is "well, I see things I like there couldn't POSSIBLY be anything that I dislike ... WHAT?!?!?! PVP?!?!?!? I've been tricked!
And that's just ridiculous when all one had to do was figure a few things out beforehand. Being informed is not applying for college. It's about being a responsible and informed consumer.
And as far as your last paragrah, pvp players aren't black and white in their likes and dislikes all the time. I love pvp and I also enjoy pve and fishing for some reason. Why should I have to settle for a game that just has pvp?
No, sorry, I followed Black Desert and in no way shape or form do I think people were being tricked. It was just too obvious for people who spent a small amount of time so that they were clear about what they were buying. So again, if you or anyone is buying something without figuring out what is involved then who is really responsible? Be an informed consumer and you will have less nasty surprises and more positive ones.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No, what I mean is, f your game is about PvP, not putting that out, an saying right on the opening page, you know, where you tell me all the fun features of your "Vast Open Worlds" "No Classes" "Skill based Combat" "Mounts!" "Gliding!" "Fishing!" "Build your own farm" 'Tame horses!".. all that fun stuff that they want to tell you, I don't think it's asking too much, that in the middle of all that hype, you should mention if there are things I should know about, like.. oh "Other players killing you and looting your corpse" for example...
I mean, would you like it if a game was all hype and forgot to mention little things, like "OH yah, if you so much as cuss in this game we will ban you"
If you're gonna make a PvP game, own up to that, say 'Hey this is PVP!" don't try to down play that, or conveniently forget to mention that on the opening page, otherwise, it's exactly as I said.. "Why you trying to sucker PvE players into your PvP games?"
If it's PvP.. make that very clear from the start, so everyone that does not feel the itch to be ganked, can move on something else.. is that really asking too much?
Personally though, the reason I want PvEers in PvP games is because it takes all kinds to make an authentic world. A world populated entirely with murderous cutthroats is not authentic or immersive. It's Call of Duty Online with gear and level disparity.
If the central focus of the game is ganking then PvEers are not needed.
If the central focus of the game is a rich immersive world then all types of players are needed.
If they want to go out and harvest nodes, collect ingredients, kill some mobs, they don't want to deal with someone coming along and just kill them in the middle of that.
PvE, It makes the game more relaxed, and a lot of players are older, believe this or not, the average player age is like around 26(ish) by this time, most are out of school, they have jobs, family, life, all kinds of stress.. they play games to unwind, get a bauble here or there, feel like they accomplished something, and call it day, be to bed by 9 PM because they have to take the kids to school in the morning.
Getting ganked and having trolls and trash talkers thwart them, tea bag their corpse, all night where they log off frustrated with making zero progress or even at a net loss.. does not fit into that plan.
That is why people like straight up PvE games, they play games to unwind and escape from the frustrations of life, and MMO's where they can socialize, group with friends, or just chat while they craft are ideal play grounds for them. as they don't have to deal with jerks ruining their play time.
I get that you may not play MMO's for those same reasons, so I suspect that you will not understand them, or even respect them, but the ghost towns of many PvP Centric MMO's, speaks for itself, which is why all these new MMO's make such a huge deal of all the "PvE" stuff they offer, but it's really just to sucker PvE players into them, and drop a steaming pile of PvP crap into what could have been a fun PvE game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Even the most hardcore pvper needs a break from time to time, PVE provides a bit of fluff and also easy targets to PK.
I think flagging systems are the worst way to do this. If I am out gathering, I will never flag up for PvP. I will only flag up when I actually want a fight meaning I am fully prepared and have little or nothing to lose.
But that's not the point of Open World PvP games. Open World PvP games should have a focus on total war. You should be able to hit your enemy where it hurts, target their economic infrastructure etc.
This is far better achieved by PvP zones. Areas with high value gathering etc. but that are open to PvP. Control of those zones is hotly contested and sees meaningful wars.
"But why would I as a PvEer play a game where I don't have access to every zone without the threat of PvP?!"
In your standard MMO gear is only replaced during the process of upgrading gear. In your standard Full Loot PvP game gear functions as consumables. For instance in Darkfall I would not wear any gear that took me more then 30 minutes to acquire the resources to create into general PvP situations and would churn through multiple full sets of gear on any day I did much PvP. This wasn't a big deal to me as all gear degraded to nothing over time through general usage.
Where do you think the economy is better? In a game where only newbs need crafted gear or in a game where constant gear replacements are a necessity on every level of play?
War is good for business. The existence of PvP areas is good for anyone who loves economy, and if you need resources only found in PvP zones you just buy them.
Sure they do, GW2 uses a combination of Time gated components for top gear items which drives people to buy items when they don't want to wait a week to have to make it themselves, which keeps the crafting profitable, as well as heavy material sinks for both guild upgrades and legendary items, which makes harvesting profitable.
Not to mention consumables, that are used for encounters,
Truth is, as long as the game is growing, GW2, has a great set up for crafting, as there will always be tat next person that wants a legendary,.
You only need things like decaying gear (or gear loss) in a game that has become stagnant, or in decline, to keep the market up.
When WvW Started, there were 8 Tiers, with 3 Servers Per Tier. with each server having its own glicko scale, as such, winning and losing would move you up and down the tiers till you met your match, unless you hit the bottom and ended up getting rolled every week.
As for a means to fully conqueror an opposing server, if they had done something like that, I am sure by the end of the first year, Jade Quarry would have destroyed everyone, and that would have ended WvW, which seems like a waste o fan entire game mode to me.
Which might be why they did not do that.
They have since cut it down to 4 tiers, and merged the weaker servers with the stronger ones, (I suppose that could be viewed as being vanquished), but the match ups are not always the same, like for example, Eredon Terrace might merge to Jade Quarry one week, and be teamed up with Black Gate the next.
Again, they have changed WvW since I left, so I am not sure if that is the case anymore.