Is the Price of Professional Franchise Gaming Too High? - Overwatch - MMORPG.com

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Is the Price of Professional Franchise Gaming Too High? - Overwatch - MMORPG.com

Overwatch News - Blizzard is investing itself heavily in eSports with the recent announcement of a dedicated division called Major League Gaming (purchased in 2015) that will oversee the Overwatch League and World Cup. Franchise costs reportedly are in the $20M range causing many professional eSports teams to disband their Overwatch divisions. By comparison, League of Legends Championship Series sports a $1.8M price tag.

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Asch126

Blizzard's greed is truly fucking up their plan to make Overwatch an Esports powerhouse, but that's not really a surprise.

holdenhamlet

It's not clear to me if it's too high or not. It may be. The ESPN article only mentioned Kraft from the Patriots buying in, but apparently the Dolphins owner also did, according to the other article. I wonder if the ESPN article would have been the same if they knew there were 2 slots sold instead of just 1.  I mean, it's kind of hard to say the price is too high if there are already 2 buyers (out of a total of 10-20 slots).


It is clear to me that the league will not consist of traditional e-sport teams like Complexity or Solo-Mid, but I never expected that anyway. I didn't think teams like that had the resources to maintain a city franchise, which is what the Overwatch League is all about.

The biggest question I have is if they can make the game enjoyable for "regular people" to watch. Games like League of Legends have been proven to be viable, at least in Korea, but LOL is comparatively slow and it's 3rd person. Overwatch, by comparison, is incredibly fast-paced, complex and 1st person.


They've spent resources improving the spectator cam, but I don't think it's enough- yet.


Personally, I think they should be asking for a bare minimum just to get the League going. E-Sports is not proven anywhere but Korea really. Once (if) it proves to be a valid spectator sport, they can charge more to remain in the league. Maybe they are planning to do this anyway and are currently just in the 1st stages of negotiation.


I really want this to happen and would love to attend a game in-person. I think Overwatch has the potential to take e-sports into the mainstream, but they have to do it right and it won't be easy.

kitarad

The comparison to LoL is staggering the difference.

ananit

holdenhamlet said:

It's not clear to me if it's too high or not. It may be. The ESPN article only mentioned Kraft from the Patriots buying in, but apparently the Dolphins owner also did, according to the other article. I wonder if the ESPN article would have been the same if they knew there were 2 slots sold instead of just 1.



It is clear to me that the league will not consist of traditional e-sport teams like Complexity or Solo-Mid, but I never expected that anyway. I didn't think teams like that had the resources to maintain a city franchise, which is what the Overwatch League is all about.

The biggest question I have is if they can make the game enjoyable for "regular people" to watch. Games like League of Legends have been proven to be viable, at least in Korea, but LOL is comparatively slow and it's 3rd person. Overwatch, by comparison, is incredibly fast-paced, complex and 1st person.



They've spent resources improving the spectator cam, but I don't think it's enough- yet.



Personally, I think they should be asking for a bare minimum just to get the League going. E-Sports is not proven anywhere but Korea really. Once (if) it proves to be a valid spectator sport, they can charge more to remain in the league. Maybe they are planning to do this anyway and are currently just in the 1st stages of negotiation.



I really want this to happen and would love to attend a game in-person. I think Overwatch has the potential to take e-sports into the mainstream, but they have to do it right and it won't be easy.

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.
and this is the major problem of overwatch as an esport, the game is fun to play but it is absolutely horrible to spectate.

the only genre that has a real shot at becoming truly mainstream (outside of korea) are fighting games (like sf5, marvel vs capcom is way too messy for that) for the sole reason that it is extremely straightforward even with no previous knowledge of the game.
add good commentary to that and even my grandma can understand what's going on with a little more depth and understanding and actually enjoy it.
develop players story, rivalry and history and the genre will be the most mainstream competitive videogame within 5 years.
capcom with their protour is doing it slowly and steadily and judging by the numbers, it's working.

holdenhamlet

ananit said:

holdenhamlet said:

It's not clear to me if it's too high or not. It may be. The ESPN article only mentioned Kraft from the Patriots buying in, but apparently the Dolphins owner also did, according to the other article. I wonder if the ESPN article would have been the same if they knew there were 2 slots sold instead of just 1.




It is clear to me that the league will not consist of traditional e-sport teams like Complexity or Solo-Mid, but I never expected that anyway. I didn't think teams like that had the resources to maintain a city franchise, which is what the Overwatch League is all about.

The biggest question I have is if they can make the game enjoyable for "regular people" to watch. Games like League of Legends have been proven to be viable, at least in Korea, but LOL is comparatively slow and it's 3rd person. Overwatch, by comparison, is incredibly fast-paced, complex and 1st person.




They've spent resources improving the spectator cam, but I don't think it's enough- yet.




Personally, I think they should be asking for a bare minimum just to get the League going. E-Sports is not proven anywhere but Korea really. Once (if) it proves to be a valid spectator sport, they can charge more to remain in the league. Maybe they are planning to do this anyway and are currently just in the 1st stages of negotiation.




I really want this to happen and would love to attend a game in-person. I think Overwatch has the potential to take e-sports into the mainstream, but they have to do it right and it won't be easy.

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

and this is the major problem of overwatch as an esport, the game is fun to play but it is absolutely horrible to spectate.



the only genre that has a real shot at becoming truly mainstream (outside of korea) are fighting games (like sf5, marvel vs capcom is way too messy for that) for the sole reason that it is extremely straightforward even with no previous knowledge of the game.

add good commentary to that and even my grandma can understand what's going on with a little more depth and understanding and actually enjoy it.

develop players story, rivalry and history and the genre will be the most mainstream competitive videogame within 5 years.

capcom with their protour is doing it slowly and steadily and judging by the numbers, it's working.

I 100% agree that's the biggest challenge they face.  Hell, it's even hard to follow for me sometimes when watching a match and I have like 500 hours in the game.  It's also very challenging for people working the spectator cams as action can break out at any moment pretty much anywhere.

But I disagree it's impossible.  Blizzard clearly does not think so- they've just created a whole division just for the League.  And at least two high-profile investors don't think so- having bought in for tens of millions of dollars.

But yeah, it won't be easy.

Jonnyp2

Obviously appealing to a different ownership market. If they legitimately have professional sports teams looking to buy in, why even bother with these relatively small esports franchises?

Sovrath

ananit said:

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

erm maybe?

People watch regular sports all the time only knowing the basics.

CrazKanuk

Awwwwwwww, eSports is growing up!!!! Ain't that cute? 

I think this is more Blizzard making a play to actually turn this into a business. The revenues for eSports have been increasing MASSIVELY over the past few years. So just like any other leagues, owners will end up getting kickbacks on ad revenues when the time is right. Revenues are expected to be in the $1.5 billion range by like 2020, which would be about 10% that of NFL Football. With the average NFL team being worth $2 billion, maybe $20 million is a good risk. 

ananit

Sovrath said:

ananit said:

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

erm maybe?

People watch regular sports all the time only knowing the basics.

have you watched an overwatch tournament ? genuinely asking because if you would have, you'd understand my statement of it being unwatchable even when you know the game.

regular sports are mainstream and have been for a very (VERY) long time, they are part of our culture because the rules and the way it's played are set in stone.
you don't need a phd to understand the rules of football (or soccer for american) because you probably played football during recess as a kid in school and even if you didn't, it would only take you a 90minute televised match to get a good grasp of the way it's played.
and it's the same for almost all mainstream sports, it is simple to understand the basics because you either played that sport as a kid/teen or it is so straightforward that you'd have to be blind to not understand.

now for overwatch, it's a completly different story. it's nowhere near mainstream and it probably never will because it's simply not spectator friendly.
how are you supposed to understand anything of the game if it's nauseating to spectate and way too messy and frantic to understand from a casual point of view ?
that is the biggest problem the game is facing.
now add the stigma that videogames are for kids/cause violence/whatever misconception and prejudice mainstream people have towards videogames and you have yourself an even bigger problem.

Theocritus

Esports has to be the worst coined term in the history of mankind...For the last time, it has absolutely nothing to do with sports and the players have zero to do with a true athlete.....It like calling a first grader learning to write the alphabet an author.

immodium

ananit said:

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

and this is the major problem of overwatch as an esport, the game is fun to play but it is absolutely horrible to spectate.

If the average sports fan can understand what's going on in football, soccer or any team sport Overwatch won't be hard to understand to the average gamer.

That won't be the reason it won't hit the mainstream.

Theocritus said:

Esports has to be the worst coined term in the history of mankind...For the last time, it has absolutely nothing to do with sports and the players have zero to do with a true athlete.....It like calling a first grader learning to write the alphabet an author.

TBH, if snooker/pool or darts are classed as sports I don't see why computer games can't be.

laserit

CrazKanuk said:

Awwwwwwww, eSports is growing up!!!! Ain't that cute? 

I think this is more Blizzard making a play to actually turn this into a business. The revenues for eSports have been increasing MASSIVELY over the past few years. So just like any other leagues, owners will end up getting kickbacks on ad revenues when the time is right. Revenues are expected to be in the $1.5 billion range by like 2020, which would be about 10% that of NFL Football. With the average NFL team being worth $2 billion, maybe $20 million is a good risk. 

When you own a franchise worth 2000-million, 20 million seems like a pretty small risk.

CrazKanuk

ananit said:

Sovrath said:

ananit said:

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

erm maybe?

People watch regular sports all the time only knowing the basics.

have you watched an overwatch tournament ? genuinely asking because if you would have, you'd understand my statement of it being unwatchable even when you know the game.



regular sports are mainstream and have been for a very (VERY) long time, they are part of our culture because the rules and the way it's played are set in stone.

you don't need a phd to understand the rules of football (or soccer for american) because you probably played football during recess as a kid in school and even if you didn't, it would only take you a 90minute televised match to get a good grasp of the way it's played.

and it's the same for almost all mainstream sports, it is simple to understand the basics because you either played that sport as a kid/teen or it is so straightforward that you'd have to be blind to not understand.



now for overwatch, it's a completly different story. it's nowhere near mainstream and it probably never will because it's simply not spectator friendly.

how are you supposed to understand anything of the game if it's nauseating to spectate and way too messy and frantic to understand from a casual point of view ?

that is the biggest problem the game is facing.

now add the stigma that videogames are for kids/cause violence/whatever misconception and prejudice mainstream people have towards videogames and you have yourself an even bigger problem.

I don't know, I watch a lot of baseball and it seems that even the umpires who should be veritable rulebooks are fooled on a weekly basis. You're right, it's easy to understand sports at the most basic level, but there are complexities in each sport that you probably aren't aware of. Similarly, eSports provides us with a very simple idea, but there are inherent complexities underneath. 

We might not "get it" as adults, but there are plenty of younger groups who obvious do since this is already a billion dollar industry. Again, putting that into perspective, the NFL has $12 revenue. I know what you're thinking, "Well that's waaaaaaay off!" You're not wrong. HOWEVER! For something that will "never work" eSports is approaching a level of revenues that would place it on the top 10 list of professional sports leagues (by revenue), almost meeting Japan's Pro Baseball league at $1.1 billion, and also doing about a quarter the revenues of the NHL. Oh! And it's not finished growing. 

All that said, I'm with you on it. I can't really watch the jumping around, and my wife would definitely vomit, lol. 

I don't think stigma is a problem, either. That's only a problem with parents. You never hear kids telling us about how video games are making them more violent. It's no different than any of the old myths we grew up with, like sitting close to the TV. Ultimately, for a generation who is over-stimulated, I think eSports actually plays right into their little hands. So maybe another decade and it will be full-swing. 

tawess

To the people who say it is hard to grasp... OW is not exactly LoL.... If people can watch the NFL games... they can wrap their head around OW... As for the people have not played it on the yard... That is true.. for now. Next gen games like OW will be able to run on light handheld devies, attach some form of controller to that and presto.

No... this is just another case of "back in my days we walked 5 miles to school uphill and it snowed every day" Blizzard want some of that sports money.... Even if they have to build that money machine from the ground up. This might be the time, it will not be a 6 month plan or to be hionest even a year plan.. this is a 5-10 year plan.

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

urbanmech

I will never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game. Then again, I don't understand the appeal of watching regular sports.

ananit

CrazKanuk said:

ananit said:

Sovrath said:

ananit said:

it will never take esports into mainstream for one simple reason : it is unwatchable if you have played the game before. i cannot imagine anyone with no previous knowledge of the game understanding anything going on let alone enjoy any of it.

erm maybe?

People watch regular sports all the time only knowing the basics.

have you watched an overwatch tournament ? genuinely asking because if you would have, you'd understand my statement of it being unwatchable even when you know the game.





regular sports are mainstream and have been for a very (VERY) long time, they are part of our culture because the rules and the way it's played are set in stone.


you don't need a phd to understand the rules of football (or soccer for american) because you probably played football during recess as a kid in school and even if you didn't, it would only take you a 90minute televised match to get a good grasp of the way it's played.


and it's the same for almost all mainstream sports, it is simple to understand the basics because you either played that sport as a kid/teen or it is so straightforward that you'd have to be blind to not understand.





now for overwatch, it's a completly different story. it's nowhere near mainstream and it probably never will because it's simply not spectator friendly.


how are you supposed to understand anything of the game if it's nauseating to spectate and way too messy and frantic to understand from a casual point of view ?


that is the biggest problem the game is facing.


now add the stigma that videogames are for kids/cause violence/whatever misconception and prejudice mainstream people have towards videogames and you have yourself an even bigger problem.

I don't know, I watch a lot of baseball and it seems that even the umpires who should be veritable rulebooks are fooled on a weekly basis. You're right, it's easy to understand sports at the most basic level, but there are complexities in each sport that you probably aren't aware of. Similarly, eSports provides us with a very simple idea, but there are inherent complexities underneath. 

We might not "get it" as adults, but there are plenty of younger groups who obvious do since this is already a billion dollar industry. Again, putting that into perspective, the NFL has $12 revenue. I know what you're thinking, "Well that's waaaaaaay off!" You're not wrong. HOWEVER! For something that will "never work" eSports is approaching a level of revenues that would place it on the top 10 list of professional sports leagues (by revenue), almost meeting Japan's Pro Baseball league at $1.1 billion, and also doing about a quarter the revenues of the NHL. Oh! And it's not finished growing. 

All that said, I'm with you on it. I can't really watch the jumping around, and my wife would definitely vomit, lol. 

I don't think stigma is a problem, either. That's only a problem with parents. You never hear kids telling us about how video games are making them more violent. It's no different than any of the old myths we grew up with, like sitting close to the TV. Ultimately, for a generation who is over-stimulated, I think eSports actually plays right into their little hands. So maybe another decade and it will be full-swing. 

'that's only a problem with the parents' but that's exactly what the mainstream audience is and this is why overwatch cannot become mainstream.
they are looking to broaden their target audience. there are already millions of viewers on twitch/youtube that watch esport regularly and these are the 80s kids like me and all the kids/young adults born since then. this audience is already there and doesn't need more advertisement or anything.
they want the mainstream audience now, people born before the 80s. and it's never gonna happen with overwatch because it is just so awful to spectate. and who knows, with recent trends in videogames, it's probably gonna die within a few years and be replaced by the next big thing.

which brings back my previous point in this thread, if a competitive videogame has any chance at becoming truly mainstream it will be a fighting game like street fighter 5 for a multitude of obvious reasons : main ones being, it's viewerfriendly, straightforward, very easy to understand the basics and you can emphasize on the individual players and their stories/rivalries to engage the viewers.
try to make your dad/mother/grand parent watch a competitve match of overwatch and a competitive match of street fighter and you'll understand.

immodium

ananit said:

try to make your dad/mother/grand parent watch a competitve match of overwatch and a competitive match of street fighter and you'll understand.

Try?!?!? I can't get my grandmother to stop playing. I've tried everything, even putting on re-runs of Columbo on her old portable won't budge her.

immodium

Torval said:

Spectators don't care if it's a video game as much I think. People like sports because they can choose sides and root for a team. They don't have to understand much of it. They just have to recognize a team and be able to easily follow their progress through media.

That's the biggest problem esports faces. Why would you be loyal to a team/player? Maybe if they're local players.

To the majority of fans sports are like a religion. They're born into the team they support, through parents or location of birth.

laserit

It's a brave new world, you youngins have at er

CrazKanuk

ananit said:

'that's only a problem with the parents' but that's exactly what the mainstream audience is and this is why overwatch cannot become mainstream.

they are looking to broaden their target audience. there are already millions of viewers on twitch/youtube that watch esport regularly and these are the 80s kids like me and all the kids/young adults born since then. this audience is already there and doesn't need more advertisement or anything.

they want the mainstream audience now, people born before the 80s. and it's never gonna happen with overwatch because it is just so awful to spectate. and who knows, with recent trends in videogames, it's probably gonna die within a few years and be replaced by the next big thing.



which brings back my previous point in this thread, if a competitive videogame has any chance at becoming truly mainstream it will be a fighting game like street fighter 5 for a multitude of obvious reasons : main ones being, it's viewerfriendly, straightforward, very easy to understand the basics and you can emphasize on the individual players and their stories/rivalries to engage the viewers.

try to make your dad/mother/grand parent watch a competitve match of overwatch and a competitive match of street fighter and you'll understand.

I will agree with you on the TYPE of game. I could probably stomach LoL or SF more than OW. My kids seem to like watching FPS games for whatever reason, though. COD, OW, crap like that. I never asked why, I just assumed it was because I was too old to get it. 

As far as dying off, I don't think that billion dollar industries just disappear. Again, this is actually surpassing MANY professional sports leagues already and is still on an upward trend, and North Americans don't even understand eSports yet. 

ananit

CrazKanuk said:

ananit said:

'that's only a problem with the parents' but that's exactly what the mainstream audience is and this is why overwatch cannot become mainstream.



they are looking to broaden their target audience. there are already millions of viewers on twitch/youtube that watch esport regularly and these are the 80s kids like me and all the kids/young adults born since then. this audience is already there and doesn't need more advertisement or anything.



they want the mainstream audience now, people born before the 80s. and it's never gonna happen with overwatch because it is just so awful to spectate. and who knows, with recent trends in videogames, it's probably gonna die within a few years and be replaced by the next big thing.







which brings back my previous point in this thread, if a competitive videogame has any chance at becoming truly mainstream it will be a fighting game like street fighter 5 for a multitude of obvious reasons : main ones being, it's viewerfriendly, straightforward, very easy to understand the basics and you can emphasize on the individual players and their stories/rivalries to engage the viewers.



try to make your dad/mother/grand parent watch a competitve match of overwatch and a competitive match of street fighter and you'll understand.

I will agree with you on the TYPE of game. I could probably stomach LoL or SF more than OW. My kids seem to like watching FPS games for whatever reason, though. COD, OW, crap like that. I never asked why, I just assumed it was because I was too old to get it. 

As far as dying off, I don't think that billion dollar industries just disappear. Again, this is actually surpassing MANY professional sports leagues already and is still on an upward trend, and North Americans don't even understand eSports yet. 

esport is not gonna die off anytime soon, quite the contrary. i was talking about overwatch specifically because that's the standard lifecycle of most competitive games, they bloom and they die off pretty quickly with very few notable exceptions (lol/dota/cs)

within the genre of shooter games, counter strike is miles ahead of its competition (overwatch, call fo duty, halo, etc) when it comes to being viewerfriendly and the viewership shows it. they set new records at every major competition.

i don't play counter strike but i actually enjoy watching tournaments because it is straightforward and very viewerfriendly.



anyways we'll see whether these heavy investments into competitive overwatch were smart or not. and if it fails, i hope it won't deter future investors from injecting money into esport.

FrodoFragins

It definitely sounds high considering the uncertain projected income and profits.

I also don't understand why sports teams want to attach their names(money I guess, but not their name). Unfortunately, a lot of gamers despise sports. And you'd never see a esports team try to advertise to sports fans. Can you imagine the New Orleans Complexity in the NFL?

BMBender

In this I suspect Blizzard is trying to put the cart before the horse and capitalize on a market before the market is grown. Currently E-sports isn't really a thing to the vast majority of the planets population. In comparison to traditional sports it's probably about where American football was when they wore leather helmets(or none). Or dirt/beach tracks for NASCAR. It's still in the garage band phase, not the merchandized phase. High buy-ins are more likely to contract the market at this point. I'd suggest grow a market before one tries to gouge it.

Phixion13

They are making an esport out of a game that was coded for casuals? Even ability design tells me this is not the greatest horse to back for truly skilled competitive play; but hey maybe that's just me.