Lets get real regarding the graphics in Pantheon

ragz45

I'm curious why the graphics in pantheon look as dated as they do.  Is this an issue of finances?  Did the team have to use an older engine because they couldn't afford the licensing fees for a nicer engine?  When looking at these two videos side by side, the graphical fidelity from one to the other is nauseating. 






Now, I'm actually cautiously optimistic about pantheon maybe getting a graphical overhaul in the future before full release.  I remember early screenshots of Shroud of the avatar, and it too looked incredibly bad, and it is quite beautiful now.  So part of me still hopes for some changes in regards to this.  Am I being unrealistic though?  Is this as good as it's ever going to look?

I've been trying to get a few old EQ era friends excited about pantheon, and all of them have said no.  It looks too dated, and they can't play a game with those graphics.

This leads me to my other thought.  If most games start out with a really low graphical fidelity while they are building the early game.  Why then is Ashes graphical fidelity already so high?

postlarval

Distopia

Not that I care about graphics, and I think Pantheon looks decent. However if you wanted to make such a comparison I feel the upgrade Crowfall just received would be a better place to argue from. If I were to make a graphics comparison anyway, which I wouldn't. They all look decent enough for me. 

Gdemami

The issue is twofold:

1) Graphics engine capabilities
2) Custom art

You have to understand that graphics engine is rather a 'minor' part of the game engine and likely the most easiest to upgrade and tweak up. Pretty graphics is very costly though, it costs thousands of manhours to create textures, models, shaders, animations etc., and all that need good graphics programmers to optimize for performance.

While Unreal Engine AoCR is using have undeniably better graphics capabilities and art assets, it might be lacking in other departments and turn out unsuitable for developer needs.

The other thing is that AoCR is just showing some generic stuff that use assets the game engine comes with. It is more of Unreal Engine demo rather than game demo. Once you start building the world, you will need to either start making your own assets and/or more buy assets. Both approaches have their shortcommings - the former is costly, the latter lacks in quality(case of Pantheon).

No engine is perfect, even the one you built yourself.

Dullahan

If we're going to have an honest conversation about graphics, comparing a pre-rendered environment with maximum effects to an alpha stream recording isn't really a fair comparison.

Watching that Ashes video again for the second time, the big difference is a max quality cinematic recording, and a ton of ambient lighting, lighting effects, reflections, and high resolution textures (grass, flora, fauna, water). Add a little animation to show all the grass and leaves blowing in the wind and rippling of the water, and you truly have a thing of beauty. And also something that would run like complete shit on a 1080p live stream.

They have plenty of time to add similar light, shadow, camera fx and higher quality object and npc animations. That has nothing to do with the engine, for anyone who has seen some of the more impressive Unity videos. They actually just began really putting resources into this aspect of the game, so we can expect things will only improve drastically between now and launch.

Ozmodan

The graphics are ok, but the animations are horrid.  Hopefully that improves before release.

Gaendric

The two games seem to be targeting vastly different hardware specs.

If you watched the last Ashes livestream with the rogue running around in the big town, looked like they had to set shadows ultra low even on the most likely very beefy demo-machine. A good indicator that they are aiming at future hardware. Which makes sense, they have many years to go.

Tamanous

Did you confirm that the game this early in development has fully detailed release graphics and animations prior to making your opinion?

Gdemami

Dullahan said:

They have plenty of time to add similar light, shadow, camera fx and higher quality object and npc animations. 

That is nothing a time could fix - for the former, they are limited by engine capabilities, for the latter they lack resources.

There is no way Unity game could ever look anywhere close  as game made in Unreal engine. Room for improvement? Sure, but it will always look dated due realistic theme and engine limitations.

Unity graphics engine is rather weak, unlike Unreal where graphics is what the engine excels at.

delete5230

I think they should be using the cartoony style graphics, and give us a better game.

I really think playing around with realistic will be a major downfall.  Realistic will always be controversial and will plague V Realms to the end !

I view V Realms as self thinkers.  With that I'm surprised they got sucked into the selfish vocal graphics hound player base.

I absolutely love what Pantheon is.  However I cant help thinking deep down inside, they are stuck in a 2004 EQ2 mode of thinking with their overall engine.  This engine will fight against them all through development and into release.


If Pantheon looked 40% better than what it is now..... It would still look off in so many ways, in other words fake !...... This plagued EQ2 and Vanguard, and now Pantheon. 

I'm just being real

Kyleran

If graphics are what someone considers important in their games my guess is there will be some other design choices even more off-putting which will hamper their enjoyment of this game.

Scorchien

game is in alpha .................whats the point here

genaknosc

Even though I'm not interested in this game, I am saavy enough to recognize that the customer-base it is being marketed to will be just fine with what the current graphics look like. The fact that the majority of the MMO custom based won't like said graphics does not really matter because the majority of the MMO customer will never have any interest in Pantheon regardless.

ste2000

Not really a good comparison.
Pantheon is showing in-game footage while AoC is mainly pre-rendered footage possibly made with Unreal stock assets.
The Unreal engine is also more of a graphic Engine (Like the Cry Engine) and while it looks superior on the graphic department needs more fine tuning than the Unity which is more of a complete Game Engine.
I am playing Ark at the moment which uses the Unreal Engine.
Beautiful game but in order to run it you need a state of the art PC or it will lag like hell, and the game is not even a MMORPG, max 70 player per server, can you imagine running a game with that level of graphics on servers with thousands of concurrent players?
So let's see how the AoC Team will be able to optimize it for the actual game without affecting the graphic quality of the end product.

People keep forgetting that MMORPGs cannot afford cutting edge graphic unless they use clever tricks (WoW use of textures for example) so I doubt AoC will be able to make full use of Unreal graphic power without affecting the game performance.

I also like to add that I personally like Pantheon graphics which in my opinion needs more of a touch in the art department than the technical department (apart from better animation which are quite decent so far).
I would like to see more High Fantasy settings and creatures but I guess that's coming after they hire Graphic Artist.

Tindale111

Whilst i agree that gameplay is more important than graphics there are limits, im not knocking pantheon they well may improve but at the moment the combat animations would kill this for me. i dont expect or want big flashy graphics like final fantasy or Black desert but i dont want them to look like wooden puppets either and lets be honest if you get 2 games out at around the same time if they both offer decent gameplay but one has a lot better graphics which one would you play most ?

rounner

It would be better to see before and after shots of other games, pre-alpha or early beta and after release. We hear a lot that graphics will improve during development but objectively, just how much is this the case?

Arkade99

I'd be much more concerned about the combat. Every video I've seen has been the same boring thing. Stand around a mob and hit it until it's dead.

Mikeha

The graphics are not the problem. 

Its the bland gameplay.

postlarval

Recore said:

The graphics are not the problem. 

Its the bland gameplay.

Yeah, that gameplay made my eyes bleed.

It looks like the graphics are the best part of the game.

Amathe

Graphics look more than fine to me. Not saying there aren't better elsewhere. But plenty good enough. 

Theocritus

I think we are used to these kind of graphics and mostly accept it, but in 2017 I expect alot better than a game that looks 15 years old already.

postlarval

Scorchien said:

game is in alpha .................whats the point here

And will be for quite some time if it follows recent trends. In fact, you'll most likely be paying a sub and/or buying from a cash shop while the game is in some sort of "alpha" state for years to come.

Now that game developers know how much they can get away with concerning gullible gamers it's open season on your pocketbook.

Tiamat64

To be fair, even the developers are probably aware the graphics are terrible.  That's possibly why the latest job openings at the company were for artists, because presumably they want to improve on that aspect of the game too.

Ltldogg

The graphics look absolutely fine to me and are not even close to being the most important part of gaming.  The mechanics and core systems are the key to a successful game and so far, Pantheon is in-line with what I'm hoping for.

ste2000

Xodic said:

You just compared a screenshot generator that was used to take your money to an actual MMORPG.

Pretty much this.
Still people don't grasp the fact that making a demo with the Unreal engine assets is not that difficult.

MMORPGs usually look 4-5 years older graphically than current Single player games, for obvious reasons, as they can't handle the amount of polygons and shadow/light effects as single player games.
That's the price to pay when you have thousands of people playing at the same time, you have to reduce graphic quality in order to reduce lag.

Dullahan

Good thing Pantheon doesn't look 15 years old then.