Why would anyone want 18 cores, most software still only runs on 1, give me a higher clock speed.
Why wouldn't anyone want 18 CPU cores? Or a 2 TB SSD? Or a large, 4K, 120 Hz, OLED monitor? The price tag (or in some cases, non-existence) might be the reason you don't buy it. But why wouldn't you want it?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Intel won't lower prices on KL bins. Individual retails may to clear shelf space, but it won't be any sort of sustained long term price cut by Intel.
Prices on Coffee Lake may be lower out the gate though, but I would not hold my breath on that. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the K Desktop bins just get axed, with Intel providing mostly OEM products and low power SKUs (S, U Y) with IGP, drop the Z chipset and K CPUs eventually, and push most DIY builders into an enthusiast-type builds on the X platform. Particularly since they are starting with 4/4 chips on the X299 platform.
I don't know that they will do that, just that I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a slow migration to that. I think we are destined to see a Coffee Lake 8900K on a Z370 motherboard - mostly just because it's already in the works, but I don't think Intel will be necessarily inclined to make it price competitive versus the X299 and current i9 lineup they have just announced.
I'd not be surprised if we see Cannon Lake at least start a move away from that model, and we not see the i5/i7 Desktop SKUs with IGP and Z-class enthusiast chipset outside of the OEM/mobile realm.
Prices on Coffee Lake may be lower out the gate though, but I would not hold my breath on that. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the K Desktop bins just get axed, with Intel providing mostly OEM products and low power SKUs (S, U Y) with IGP, drop the Z chipset and K CPUs eventually, and push most DIY builders into an enthusiast-type builds on the X platform. Particularly since they are starting with 4/4 chips on the X299 platform.
That totally sounds like something Intel would do. You want us to let you clock your CPU within 500 MHz of what the silicon can actually handle? Then you'll need a motherboard with this $70 chipset.
Prices for current 7th gen plucked from Tom's Hardware's Amazon link.
So in "June" when 8th gen becomes available (or whenever) how much are 7th gen going to be?
Do they have a ton of inventory to dump?
It isn't - necessarily - about inventory. Might be but will Intel "simply" close down i7 production? If the chips can be produced and sold profitably (at some price) .....
They may phase out production of course or maybe limit sales to box builders.
Two strategic factors (imo) may influence any decision - in addition to "simple" financial considerations to do with manufacturing.
Will selling 7th gen cpus: 1. Gain Intel market share at the expense of - specifically - AMD low end "dominance". 2. Damage sales of 8th gen cpus - given how capable e.g. 7th gen i5s are.
Spent the morning listening to most of my favorite board builders videos on the X299 boards and chips. The consensus is interesting, they all recommend just skipping the X299 generation and wait for the next one which could be coming as early as August.
The motherboards are just very expensive and depending on the chip you are paying for a lot of features that you cannot use unless you are buying the top of the line chip. Threadripper is not even out yet and Intel is panicing.
Interesting fact, if you need PCI lanes, Intel crippled many of the low end chips in this generation with low PCI lane count and even their top of the line 18 core chip only has 44 PCI lanes to Threadrippers 64. Sounds like to me that Intel got caught with their pants down. It will be interesting to see what their next generation will be and when it comes out.
Most of my build requests are Ryzen now, still doing a few I7 7700 for gamers. At least those Intel boards are decently priced. I don't see myself doing any X299 builds with the prices I am seeing on the boards.
My new builds are for my flight sim rig and my gaming rig gets the hand me downs. The latest 64bit versions released for flight sims make great use of all the cores you have. But with the main thread, clock speed is still king when it comes to frame rate and fluidity. With the new Prepar3d v4 I'm seeing all cores of my 7700k being 90-100% utilized. Unfortunately Ryzen performance has been disappointing in flight sim circles. Now we wait for Threadripper.
I happy day for me is when we start seeing these high core count cpu's (AMD or Intel) with higher clock speeds that meet or surpass a 7700k
Was AVX included in your stress test? AVX is brutal and will significantly add to temps. Many motherboards have a setting for stepping down with AVX. Stressing my 7700k @4.95 w/HT, I was averaging 72c with the odd spike to 78c, using a Corsair H100i with stock paste. Since I've delidded, the highest spike I've witnessed is 68c with the average being around 59c
Ambient room temperature being 72f/22c
The performance difference between my 4770k @4.6 vs the 7700k @4.95 with the software I use is quite significant and was definitely worth the upgrade.
After looking at the pricing and the specs I am not impressed one bit. If that is their answer to Ryzen then it is worth a good ROFL. And again we need a new chipset to run them. My bet is that since the current i7 run too hot for my taste, these will too.
I just got an order for 12 1800x workstations from a customer. The business people know.
I returned my 7700k 10 days after I bought it, when Al Gore sent me hate mail for my contributing to global warming. Having to de-lid a brand new processor and apply liquid metal to attain sub boiling temperatures at base clock speed is worth a good ROFL, considering my 4790k is overclocked to 4.6ghz and stays below 70 degrees C under full load with the exact same Noctua thermal paste and cooling system.
I can only imagine that you'll need a fireman's suite to run these new intel chips.
Running at boiling temperatures at stock speeds is intentional. If you've got a good air cooler, then it removes heat from the CPU chip by boiling water. Water has an extremely high heat of vaporization, so boiling water removes a ton of heat from the CPU chip.
And yes, I mean that literally. The inside of heat pipes is basically a vacuum with some water. The low pressure means that water can boil at much lower temperatures. There is wicking material to carry the water from where it condenses onto a heat pipe back to the CPU and repeat the process again.
So yes, you're likely using water cooling even if you didn't realize it.
Was AVX included in your stress test? AVX is brutal and will significantly add to temps. Many motherboards have a setting for stepping down with AVX. Stressing my 7700k @4.95 w/HT, I was averaging 72c with the odd spike to 78c, using a Corsair H100i with stock paste. Since I've delidded, the highest spike I've witnessed is 68c with the average being around 59c
Ambient room temperature being 72f/22c
The performance difference between my 4770k @4.6 vs the 7700k @4.95 with the software I use is quite significant and was definitely worth the upgrade.
Kind of funny, all this hoopla about the 7700k, yet my backup system runs a 4690k and I have it clocked the same as my 7700k and I cannot tell the difference with most games. Kind of makes the upgrade not worth it. Yeah, I know all the benchmarks show different, but that is not the real world.
Comments
That is the same way I feel about Kate Beckinsale.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
i5-7500 @$199.99 --> ?
i5-7600K @ ;$234.39 --> i5-7640X @ $242
i7-7700 @ $440.63 --> i7-7740@ @ $339
? --> i9-7800X @ $389
Prices for current 7th gen plucked from Tom's Hardware's Amazon link.
So in "June" when 8th gen becomes available (or whenever) how much are 7th gen going to be?
Do they have a ton of inventory to dump?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Prices on Coffee Lake may be lower out the gate though, but I would not hold my breath on that. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the K Desktop bins just get axed, with Intel providing mostly OEM products and low power SKUs (S, U Y) with IGP, drop the Z chipset and K CPUs eventually, and push most DIY builders into an enthusiast-type builds on the X platform. Particularly since they are starting with 4/4 chips on the X299 platform.
I don't know that they will do that, just that I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a slow migration to that. I think we are destined to see a Coffee Lake 8900K on a Z370 motherboard - mostly just because it's already in the works, but I don't think Intel will be necessarily inclined to make it price competitive versus the X299 and current i9 lineup they have just announced.
I'd not be surprised if we see Cannon Lake at least start a move away from that model, and we not see the i5/i7 Desktop SKUs with IGP and Z-class enthusiast chipset outside of the OEM/mobile realm.
It isn't - necessarily - about inventory. Might be but will Intel "simply" close down i7 production? If the chips can be produced and sold profitably (at some price) .....
They may phase out production of course or maybe limit sales to box builders.
Two strategic factors (imo) may influence any decision - in addition to "simple" financial considerations to do with manufacturing.
Will selling 7th gen cpus:
1. Gain Intel market share at the expense of - specifically - AMD low end "dominance".
2. Damage sales of 8th gen cpus - given how capable e.g. 7th gen i5s are.
We will know over the next few months of course.
The motherboards are just very expensive and depending on the chip you are paying for a lot of features that you cannot use unless you are buying the top of the line chip. Threadripper is not even out yet and Intel is panicing.
Interesting fact, if you need PCI lanes, Intel crippled many of the low end chips in this generation with low PCI lane count and even their top of the line 18 core chip only has 44 PCI lanes to Threadrippers 64. Sounds like to me that Intel got caught with their pants down. It will be interesting to see what their next generation will be and when it comes out.
Most of my build requests are Ryzen now, still doing a few I7 7700 for gamers. At least those Intel boards are decently priced. I don't see myself doing any X299 builds with the prices I am seeing on the boards.
My new builds are for my flight sim rig and my gaming rig gets the hand me downs. The latest 64bit versions released for flight sims make great use of all the cores you have. But with the main thread, clock speed is still king when it comes to frame rate and fluidity. With the new Prepar3d v4 I'm seeing all cores of my 7700k being 90-100% utilized. Unfortunately Ryzen performance has been disappointing in flight sim circles. Now we wait for Threadripper.
I happy day for me is when we start seeing these high core count cpu's (AMD or Intel) with higher clock speeds that meet or surpass a 7700k
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Was AVX included in your stress test? AVX is brutal and will significantly add to temps. Many motherboards have a setting for stepping down with AVX. Stressing my 7700k @4.95 w/HT, I was averaging 72c with the odd spike to 78c, using a Corsair H100i with stock paste. Since I've delidded, the highest spike I've witnessed is 68c with the average being around 59c
Ambient room temperature being 72f/22c
The performance difference between my 4770k @4.6 vs the 7700k @4.95 with the software I use is quite significant and was definitely worth the upgrade.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFzWRoVNnE&t=782s
And yes, I mean that literally. The inside of heat pipes is basically a vacuum with some water. The low pressure means that water can boil at much lower temperatures. There is wicking material to carry the water from where it condenses onto a heat pipe back to the CPU and repeat the process again.
So yes, you're likely using water cooling even if you didn't realize it.