7 days to Die: Peak concurrent players yesterday: 21,860 players in the last 2 weeks: 292,424
User reviews:
RECENT:
Very Positive (1,038 reviews)
OVERALL:
Very Positive (35,432 reviews)
An indie game in early access with nearly zero advertising and not remotely as popular as Rust or Ark
7 days to die born on steam, that's all so...at release bdo devs said +100k concurrent players, and it was when the game wasn't popular
I keep having to explain this to peopole and dont understand why its not implictity understood.
7 days to die is an early access, indie game with nearly zero advertising. BDO is a hugely marketed mega game.
given that difference the margin of error is HUGE...a small time early access titles that is an indie game made by a bunch of guys who could not get funding from anyone which has nearly zero adverftising should not be able to come remotely close to BDO in numbers.
having said that, the point of my post was he posted some numbers that looked intresting so what I did was to go and look out of curiousity, those numbers he posted appear to not be that impressive given the small title I just provided
And BDO has been released + 1year ago and who wanted to buy it, already done so, steam numbers is just a plus to a packed already game while 7 days to die is.. "that's all" i'm just showing you this.
lots of wonderful excuses but it leaves one painfully obvious question.
why point out the numbers of players in Steam for BDO in the first place.
Fundamental FACT regardless of what, where, why or who. posting those numbers of steam players for BDO is not that impressive given the game of its hyper marketing hype promise hype, now if they added context then great but they didnt and you are reading way more into what I responded to then is there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
7 days to Die: Peak concurrent players yesterday: 21,860 players in the last 2 weeks: 292,424
User reviews:
RECENT:
Very Positive (1,038 reviews)
OVERALL:
Very Positive (35,432 reviews)
An indie game in early access with nearly zero advertising and not remotely as popular as Rust or Ark
7 days to die born on steam, that's all so...at release bdo devs said +100k concurrent players, and it was when the game wasn't popular
I keep having to explain this to peopole and dont understand why its not implictity understood.
7 days to die is an early access, indie game with nearly zero advertising. BDO is a hugely marketed mega game.
given that difference the margin of error is HUGE...a small time early access titles that is an indie game made by a bunch of guys who could not get funding from anyone which has nearly zero adverftising should not be able to come remotely close to BDO in numbers.
having said that, the point of my post was he posted some numbers that looked intresting so what I did was to go and look out of curiousity, those numbers he posted appear to not be that impressive given the small title I just provided
And BDO has been released + 1year ago and who wanted to buy it, already done so, steam numbers is just a plus to a packed already game while 7 days to die is.. "that's all" i'm just showing you this.
lots of wonderful excuses but it leaves one painfully obvious question.
why point out the numbers of players in Steam for BDO in the first place.
Fundamental FACT regardless of what, where, why or who. posting those numbers of steam players for BDO is not that impressive given the game of its hyper marketing hype promise hype, now if they added context then great but they didnt and you are reading way more into what I responded to then is there
idk but I think is important to know that there is a new big MMO on the scene that can go beyond i'ts great achievements and STEAM shows it
idk but I think is important to know that there is a new big MMO on the scene that can go beyond i'ts great achievements and STEAM shows it
but see the problem is 'as steam shows it' as I have illustrated does NOT suggest that.
If the numbers you post as 'steam shows it' are being closely matched by an indie early access title with no advertising then the numbers you posted are a bit silly unless you provide more context which you havent.
Its like saying 'see these numbers show it!' 'ummmm yeah the D class game has those numbers not sure why you are saying this'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
idk but I think is important to know that there is a new big MMO on the scene that can go beyond i'ts great achievements and STEAM shows it
but see the problem is 'as steam shows it' as I have illustrated does NOT suggest that.
If the numbers you post as 'steam shows it' are being closely matched by an indie early access title with no advertising then the numbers you posted are a bit silly unless you provide more context which you havent.
Its like saying 'see these numbers show it!' 'ummmm yeah the D class game has those numbers not sure why you are saying this'
And if both games were born on steam there would be more or less 100k players difference
You understand the difference between a game born on steam and one that goes there after a year +?
idk but I think is important to know that there is a new big MMO on the scene that can go beyond i'ts great achievements and STEAM shows it
but see the problem is 'as steam shows it' as I have illustrated does NOT suggest that.
If the numbers you post as 'steam shows it' are being closely matched by an indie early access title with no advertising then the numbers you posted are a bit silly unless you provide more context which you havent.
Its like saying 'see these numbers show it!' 'ummmm yeah the D class game has those numbers not sure why you are saying this'
And if both games were born on steam there would be more or less 100k players difference
You understand the difference between a game born on steam and one that goes there after a year +?
what I saying is that the OP should have made this clear. because its critical and it matters.
you cant just say
'oh wow this game as X players' and assume the rest because someone (like me) is going to say 'oh cool' and then open up steam spy and start to take a look at the some numbers. So on its face, as it was given, its flat
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"
How is that possible? Yep AFK players
Game Launchers.
It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
Any proof to your claim? I'd like clarification before I take you on your word. No offense.
You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"
How is that possible? Yep AFK players
Game Launchers.
It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
Any proof to your claim? I'd like clarification before I take you on your word. No offense.
You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
Discord does it as well. Although I think it's not the launcher that does it. It's the fact that when it disconnects you when maintenance hits, it doesn't CLOSE the game. It lets you sit there on the login screen with the message "You have been disconnected" until you click "Okay" "Close" or whatever the button says.
As has been pointed out earlier (by you and several others I think?) those users HAD been playing that day however. So people can whine about afk all they want, the simple fact is that these players are invested enough to keep the game running on their PC, to log in each time, and I imagine in 9/10 cases play at least a few hours when they can. Usually more than that, since most casual BDO players that I know in game actually don't keep the game running when they leave. It's the more addicted ones that have that tendency.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
The game is HIGHLY populated. All the channels on all the servers have Towns EXTREMLY full with ACTIVE players. The coasts are FILLED up with hundrets of afk fishers, the mainlands the deserts, the quest and grinding areas are ALL populated, in my case (lvl 53 alt character) it is even over pupulated in like all grinding/questing spots. I have to fight for every mob pack. The game is everythingelse but dead. Its flooded, thats a fact everbody can proof just by logging in.
WoW in comparison feels dead. Vanillecontinent, Northrend, BC content, MoP and draenor is ALL EMPTY; noone is there. EVErybody who simpy logs in can see and proof that fact aswell.
When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"
How is that possible? Yep AFK players
Game Launchers.
It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
Any proof to your claim? I'd like clarification before I take you on your word. No offense.
You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.
It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/582660/discussions/0/1290691308571849109/ And it finally got locked because people could not be civil, and not throw insults to each-other about it lol... I do hope that eventually European Laws will outlaw game companies from Europe doing this to its consumers, selling a product and installing 3rd party software from other countries on their computers.
. So basically indeed XingCode contacts the servers to check for lists of Cheats / Hacks
. it sends parts of files or hash back to XingCode developers, to my knowledge it would be possible to block this by Fire-Wall after the game has launched so it can not send data back but assuming everyone is legit it sends information back.
. They admit here it scans your PC for cheat programs, not just memory, which is why it black listed my VPN and Networking software not allowing me to play certain games even when it isn't even connected to a server.
. You can't request Wellbia delete all the data, nor can I see the data myself being sent so I can't prove they are or are not telling the truth because its not open about exactly what its sending. And I am not sure the wellbia servers are located in Europe, because its a Korean Company, so I think they are in Korea.
. It says that no data is collected from Normal files, and only scans them, I still find this a violation of my privacy considering it destroyed my android device, modified my devices files there obviously I could be lying about this but what would I have to gain from it, but I find it a violation of privacy still.
. They admit that Game Guard, and XingCode won't run together for example playing Blade & Soul while afk fishing in Black Desert shouldn't be a problem but it is.
------------------------------------------------------------------- While Daum, has addressed some concerns on steam about how to uninstall or remove XingCode when a user no longer wants it, it still remains the fact this game on Steam, and the BDO site never asked permission to install it, So as the Moderator left their email on steam, I went ahead and sent them a mail asking them if they could "List XingCode" on their sales pages, to properly inform people that this will be installed along with their game.
I personally don't trust nor will I ever use Game Guard, or Xing Code again on my system, no matter how tempting the game is from my own user and experiences with these Anti Cheats.
Also there is no reason for this Anti-Cheat scanning my files for hacks, If I want to have cheat engine, or other hacks / bots installed on my system doesn't mean I am actively using them in an online game, Although cheat engine is usually the only one I have ever had on my system that would be questioned I used to use it in Single Player games back in the day.
My biggest concern of all, is still for many of the users who install these online games, and are not aware of the Anti-Cheats, and its not only myself who doesn't agree there is nothing wrong with an Anti-Cheat, I don't mind using them but when it impacts system configurations, performance, sends files back, and installed without permission from untrustworthy sources, such as wellbia, or Inca, then I have a problem with it and the reason I consider these not being able to be trusted is simply because of how they install themselves without asking, and are from korea which they provide No Support on how to fully remove their product while both Battleye & Easy Anti Cheat, do provide instructions, perhaps even Punk Buster I believe respects privacy and permissions and so I can trust these more, plus they actually provide support.
Sure XingCode has 2000+ Games that use this but these games I believe all come from Korea, of course they are going to use something made from their country, and if the servers were all located in Korea, and following their Laws, then this would be acceptable, but for me personally, and hopefully in EU, hopefully they adopt a stance against this.
@Renoaku they have one authoritative stand in anti-cheating control. It's not anything uncommon when you consider Korea has legal implications for cheating in online games.
Now mind, if people push to overthrown XingCode in NA/EU, things are going to get bad , by no means I would see the Korean devs doing a specific anti-cheating implementation for the NA/EU/other regions and maintaining that.
As they already clarified and stated what it is and what it does, it's up to the people who play the game if they don't want it... well, to not play the game.
7 days to Die: Peak concurrent players yesterday: 21,860 players in the last 2 weeks: 292,424
User reviews:
RECENT:
Very Positive (1,038 reviews)
OVERALL:
Very Positive (35,432 reviews)
An indie game in early access with nearly zero advertising and not remotely as popular as Rust or Ark
7 days to die born on steam, that's all so...at release bdo devs said +100k concurrent players, and it was when the game wasn't popular
I keep having to explain this to peopole and dont understand why its not implictity understood.
7 days to die is an early access, indie game with nearly zero advertising. BDO is a hugely marketed mega game.
given that difference the margin of error is HUGE...a small time early access titles that is an indie game made by a bunch of guys who could not get funding from anyone which has nearly zero adverftising should not be able to come remotely close to BDO in numbers.
having said that, the point of my post was he posted some numbers that looked intresting so what I did was to go and look out of curiousity, those numbers he posted appear to not be that impressive given the small title I just provided
And BDO has been released + 1year ago and who wanted to buy it, already done so, steam numbers is just a plus to a packed already game while 7 days to die is.. "that's all" i'm just showing you this.
lots of wonderful excuses but it leaves one painfully obvious question.
why point out the numbers of players in Steam for BDO in the first place.
Fundamental FACT regardless of what, where, why or who. posting those numbers of steam players for BDO is not that impressive given the game of its hyper marketing hype promise hype, now if they added context then great but they didnt and you are reading way more into what I responded to then is there
I think your misunderstanding something Sean, the Steam numbers, are just the new players who have joined since it went on sale on Steam, the game already had a solid playerbase beforehand, it actually only represents a small percentage of the overall playerbase, it would not surprise me in the least if the overall consecutive user numbers far exceeded 100k.
Xigncode3 sucks - but since I play BDO, i have to accept using it sadly.
What sucks about it is that it interferes with any kind of hypervisor - so if you are running virtualization on your PC - can't run BDO on that PC.
just like any 3rd party anti-cheat software - it's just sad how easily it's bypassed though - so those who cheat in BDO have zero issues with Xigncode3, as all the cheats bypass it easily- those who don't are the ones that have to deal with crap that Xigncode3 breaks.
The real issue with BDO (and many Korean developed MMOs in general) - is that they trust the client FAR too much - client side cooldowns for example are still an issue in BDO.
If BDO was done to where most things were checked on the server side - they wouldn't even need Xigncode to begin with.
But sadly - the lack of server side checks is attempted to be covered by Xigncode -as we've all seen - it just doesn't do anything to stop the cheaters.
Kind of like gun control laws do zero to prevent ciminals from obtaining guns - since they never obtain them legally anyway.
Same shit with Xigncode - useless
Unfortunately, even if that were the case and they did handle more of it Server side, rather than Client side, certain types of players would still find some other way to 'cheat'. Xigncode etc. far from being useless, does work to some degree, but no protection is perfect after all which is why its most likely just 'part' of the measures used to help prevent cheating. While the game itself doesn't cost that much, it does mean that when cheaters are caught, they do suffer some financial loss by losing their accounts. That is probably as much as we can realistically hope for with the state of technology today.
@Renoaku they have one authoritative stand in anti-cheating control. It's not anything uncommon when you consider Korea has legal implications for cheating in online games.
Now mind, if people push to overthrown XingCode in NA/EU, things are going to get bad , by no means I would see the Korean devs doing a specific anti-cheating implementation for the NA/EU/other regions and maintaining that.
As they already clarified and stated what it is and what it does, it's up to the people who play the game if they don't want it... well, to not play the game.
What are the punishments for Cheating in an online game in korea, I am actually curious about this now, and do they actually prove it before taking justice?
I wish the U.S would adopt laws against cheating in Online Games and be serious about it when it comes to cheating, something including Jail Time, or ban from ever touching a computer for X number of years on a second proven offense, the first time being a warning and a small fine or something.
When I talk about cheating I don't mean RMT though I think users should still be allowed to sell their own free time the way they wish in games such as Fiverr, people who sell games of Overwatch for $5 for 3 Match-Made games and such I think generally shouldn't qualify under such only Cheating with 3rd party hacks or cheats or cheating programs.
And yeah I don't mind XingCode, if it would respect privacy, and be fully transparent, (Before) a person buys the game like if Daum would upgrade the Terms OF Service, or put a little checkbox on their stores page that says by purchasing you are aware the game will require XingCode a 3rd party program to be installed you can read about it (Here) with a link, as well as listing on the Steam Sales Page.
They did clear some things up, which is why I more don't trust it, because basically Daum if I understand admitted to what the hackers already said on some blog back away's that XingCode didn't scan files or things outside of the game but their steam Q&A says differently if I am understanding it all correctly So for now I just keep pushing to make them list it on their store pages properly letting customers know, the sad thing is that when I purchased this they didn't offer refunds to players who couldn't or didn't want to play the game because of this so it was $100 down the drain just for buying the game. I am trying to check within European privacy Laws if there is anything that can be used to make the company have to change their stores page or anything so i've been sending emails to all the contacts I can find with privacy companies, and Legal over there maybe I will get a reply soon, because I tell them how I think my privacy has been violated by XingCode and Daum not letting me know before my purchase.
Xigncode3 sucks - but since I play BDO, i have to accept using it sadly.
What sucks about it is that it interferes with any kind of hypervisor - so if you are running virtualization on your PC - can't run BDO on that PC.
just like any 3rd party anti-cheat software - it's just sad how easily it's bypassed though - so those who cheat in BDO have zero issues with Xigncode3, as all the cheats bypass it easily- those who don't are the ones that have to deal with crap that Xigncode3 breaks.
The real issue with BDO (and many Korean developed MMOs in general) - is that they trust the client FAR too much - client side cooldowns for example are still an issue in BDO.
If BDO was done to where most things were checked on the server side - they wouldn't even need Xigncode to begin with.
But sadly - the lack of server side checks is attempted to be covered by Xigncode -as we've all seen - it just doesn't do anything to stop the cheaters.
Kind of like gun control laws do zero to prevent ciminals from obtaining guns - since they never obtain them legally anyway.
Same shit with Xigncode - useless
Yeah I know how easy XingCode is to bypass so if I were a cheater who wanted to like hack in this game bypassing wouldn't be a problem I have a programmer who does code for me I hire him and he makes me good quality stuff with protections as well as could remove XingCode if I asked him to for me proving it doesn't work. But I would rather pay them to do custom code for me for my own needs (Not making cheats) than to spend $1000 in Black Desert over a year.
The problem with Korean Games, is they are quickly thrown together, and so they lack server side checks such as why a person could refill HP/MP, as well as spam skills in BDO with no cool down, personally I still liked "Arche Age" more than BDO, and Trion gave up their Anti-Cheat, and that is why I kept playing for as long as I did once I found out about it I would have uninstalled their game too, but I still stopped playing because of Trions Decision to do Fresh Start servers, and over half the population left due to dumb decision making by Trion. So why the heck should I pay a company top dollar, spend $100 on costumes and cosmetics in a store, when honestly they can't even offer halfway decent protection against cheaters, and hound me with XingCode as a legitimate player because I use a VPN service, or run Virtualization on my pc, there is no legitimate reason why a company should ever be granted such power over what a user can or can't do outside of their software, Sure there are a lot of blind sheep who want to play the game so they will do this,I used to be one of these, but not anymore, not after seeing XingCode destroy my Android Device, Modify my files, and how it behaves. I do hope that Crow Fall, or Ashes of Creation, become good games it will be great to see both Albion, and Black Desert lose a lot of its player base, only way to show a company is with your wallet.
So with that, its lost 370 players past 30 days. No matter the reasons, the numbers are still rather good for a game.
Even Skyrim lost a HUGE, and ACTIVE player amount on Steam shortly after release. And Skyrim was a well regarded release and highly rated. However Skyrim as of now is very stable player wise, and even (as seen below) gained players.
However, BDO seems to have found a stable playerbase of 12k-15k on Steam, not counting non-steam version. That is pretty respectable I find. Far from dead.
However, Skyrim actually DOES have more players, and has lost very little in the past 30 days
and in fact Special Edition has GAINED players and hasn't lost any. And regular edition has lost very few, and some of those might have moved to Special Edition.
So comparing the two, BDO is pretty respectable at about 15k roughly players on Steam. Skyrim has roughly double that though. With that said, I haven't looked at other MMOs on Steam to see how their player base is like. MMOs might not be as big as other genres of games on Steam. So the next post I'll go through the stats of what other MMOs look like.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
For a more fair comparison to BDO than Skyrim (which Skyrim is top dog pretty much at 30k players between the games)...these are other MMOs. Also to add. BDO is on the top selling list in the MMO category on Steam, remove the "MMO" checkbox and its 2nd just below player unknowns battleground (which is labeled under the MMO genre for some reason)
Again, remember this is Steam only, and like BDO, doesn't account for ALL players
You can see RIFT isn't very successful on Steam. Less I'd say than Ryzom, despite Ryzom being such a low player count. Ryzom has the excuse of being a niche, not that well known and not advertised MMO. Though RIFT steam active players haven't gone down much )only -12), though it is by a large percent due to the lower player count.
Again, still less than BDO. Which FFXIV and BDO are top regarded MMOs and both have less players than BDO on Steam. However, ESO has seen a huge increase (500+) of active players.
For a niche MMO, very respectable. That is doing pretty well in its niche.
Kudos to Elite for being successful in its niche. Kudos to ESO for seeing such a large increase in active players. FFXIV losing ground on Steam, overtaken by BDO and ESO. At least, as far as STEAM stats go, remember this does NOT account for non-steam versions of the above MMOs.
Post edited by TheScavenger on
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Then there are players like me who give a game a break for about 6 months or so but when I do come back, usually during a sale or expansion, I usually buy stuff in the cash shop and probably end up spending as much as I would have spent if I had played the entire time.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I suspect FFXIV has more players overall, since it's a lot more casual friendly and has no open world pvp, but yeah, anyone playing BDO can easily see that the game us doing very well for itself. I'm not surprised about the Skyrim thing though. Single player games have always done better than MMO's overall, and Skyrim's one of the most popular titles at that.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Kinda misleading to assume that online count is people playing the game. If you played it you would know most activities can be/ are done afk. Most of those numbers are simply people fishing, running in circles with or without a horse.
I don't take the merit of the game. I'm playing the Brazilian version/server of BDO and I'm in love with it... It is just what it is: Those numbers are not a correct sum of online active players as much EvE numbers are not precise due multi accounts and bots.
they aren't supposed to be scientific, but how many players are ON (and using Steam, so its not even ALL the player base of the above games).
In Ultima Online, a huge portion of the playerbase is AFK botting (or macroing they call it, same thing). Plus multi accounts are very common.
In WoW, quite a few people just stand in a city waiting for queues to pop. Plus multi accounts are pretty common, I've met quite a few people who multi account since they don't want to bother with groups for dungeons.
Your EVE example of course.
And any number of other MMOs. This isn't a scientific study where posters post numbers and spend 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands of government tax funded money to find statistics of how many people are on and are active and aren't multi accounts and any number of variances.
No MMO can have scientific numbers, not ESO, not FFXIV not GW2. Even 100s of thousands of dollars worth of research still may not go through ALL the variances of active players and all that stuff.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"
How is that possible? Yep AFK players
Game Launchers.
It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
Any proof to your claim? I'd like clarification before I take you on your word. No offense.
You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.
It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
I wasn't disputing anything. I wanted clarification on his statement. Unless you live in alternate fact reality, that's how it usually works. Make a claim, be ready to back it up with facts.
When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"
How is that possible? Yep AFK players
Game Launchers.
It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
Any proof to your claim? I'd like clarification before I take you on your word. No offense.
You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.
It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
I wasn't disputing anything. I wanted clarification on his statement. Unless you live in alternate fact reality, that's how it usually works. Make a claim, be ready to back it up with facts.
He is right, tho.
If you open the patcher to download or update and go to sleep with it on, for steam and steam chart / steam spy you played the entire night.
I agree, and when he replied to my comment I was informed. Just wanted to know if it was true before I took it as fact.
Comments
why point out the numbers of players in Steam for BDO in the first place.
Fundamental FACT regardless of what, where, why or who. posting those numbers of steam players for BDO is not that impressive given the game of its hyper marketing hype promise hype, now if they added context then great but they didnt and you are reading way more into what I responded to then is there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
If the numbers you post as 'steam shows it' are being closely matched by an indie early access title with no advertising then the numbers you posted are a bit silly unless you provide more context which you havent.
Its like saying 'see these numbers show it!' 'ummmm yeah the D class game has those numbers not sure why you are saying this'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
you cant just say
'oh wow this game as X players' and assume the rest because someone (like me) is going to say 'oh cool' and then open up steam spy and start to take a look at the some numbers. So on its face, as it was given, its flat
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
As has been pointed out earlier (by you and several others I think?) those users HAD been playing that day however. So people can whine about afk all they want, the simple fact is that these players are invested enough to keep the game running on their PC, to log in each time, and I imagine in 9/10 cases play at least a few hours when they can. Usually more than that, since most casual BDO players that I know in game actually don't keep the game running when they leave. It's the more addicted ones that have that tendency.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
WoW in comparison feels dead. Vanillecontinent, Northrend, BC content, MoP and draenor is ALL EMPTY; noone is there. EVErybody who simpy logs in can see and proof that fact aswell.
It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
And it finally got locked because people could not be civil, and not throw insults to each-other about it lol...
I do hope that eventually European Laws will outlaw game companies from Europe doing this to its consumers, selling a product and installing 3rd party software from other countries on their computers.
And to be fair if you take a look here is their first address to the community about it...
http://steamcommunity.com/app/582660/discussions/9/2119355556482775513/
And here is their Q&A which proves Xing Code, does send data back to their servers.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/582660/discussions/9/2119355556494832730/
So if I understand everything correctly here.
. So basically indeed XingCode contacts the servers to check for lists of Cheats / Hacks
. it sends parts of files or hash back to XingCode developers, to my knowledge it would be possible to block this by Fire-Wall after the game has launched so it can not send data back but assuming everyone is legit it sends information back.
. They admit here it scans your PC for cheat programs, not just memory, which is why it black listed my VPN and Networking software not allowing me to play certain games even when it isn't even connected to a server.
. You can't request Wellbia delete all the data, nor can I see the data myself being sent so I can't prove they are or are not telling the truth because its not open about exactly what its sending. And I am not sure the wellbia servers are located in Europe, because its a Korean Company, so I think they are in Korea.
. It says that no data is collected from Normal files, and only scans them, I still find this a violation of my privacy considering it destroyed my android device, modified my devices files there obviously I could be lying about this but what would I have to gain from it, but I find it a violation of privacy still.
. They admit that Game Guard, and XingCode won't run together for example playing Blade & Soul while afk fishing in Black Desert shouldn't be a problem but it is.
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While Daum, has addressed some concerns on steam about how to uninstall or remove XingCode when a user no longer wants it, it still remains the fact this game on Steam, and the BDO site never asked permission to install it, So as the Moderator left their email on steam, I went ahead and sent them a mail asking them if they could "List XingCode" on their sales pages, to properly inform people that this will be installed along with their game.
I personally don't trust nor will I ever use Game Guard, or Xing Code again on my system, no matter how tempting the game is from my own user and experiences with these Anti Cheats.
Also there is no reason for this Anti-Cheat scanning my files for hacks, If I want to have cheat engine, or other hacks / bots installed on my system doesn't mean I am actively using them in an online game, Although cheat engine is usually the only one I have ever had on my system that would be questioned I used to use it in Single Player games back in the day.
My biggest concern of all, is still for many of the users who install these online games, and are not aware of the Anti-Cheats, and its not only myself who doesn't agree there is nothing wrong with an Anti-Cheat, I don't mind using them but when it impacts system configurations, performance, sends files back, and installed without permission from untrustworthy sources, such as wellbia, or Inca, then I have a problem with it and the reason I consider these not being able to be trusted is simply because of how they install themselves without asking, and are from korea which they provide No Support on how to fully remove their product while both Battleye & Easy Anti Cheat, do provide instructions, perhaps even Punk Buster I believe respects privacy and permissions and so I can trust these more, plus they actually provide support.
Sure XingCode has 2000+ Games that use this but these games I believe all come from Korea, of course they are going to use something made from their country, and if the servers were all located in Korea, and following their Laws, then this would be acceptable, but for me personally, and hopefully in EU, hopefully they adopt a stance against this.
Now mind, if people push to overthrown XingCode in NA/EU, things are going to get bad , by no means I would see the Korean devs doing a specific anti-cheating implementation for the NA/EU/other regions and maintaining that.
As they already clarified and stated what it is and what it does, it's up to the people who play the game if they don't want it... well, to not play the game.
While the game itself doesn't cost that much, it does mean that when cheaters are caught, they do suffer some financial loss by losing their accounts.
That is probably as much as we can realistically hope for with the state of technology today.
I wish the U.S would adopt laws against cheating in Online Games and be serious about it when it comes to cheating, something including Jail Time, or ban from ever touching a computer for X number of years on a second proven offense, the first time being a warning and a small fine or something.
When I talk about cheating I don't mean RMT though I think users should still be allowed to sell their own free time the way they wish in games such as Fiverr, people who sell games of Overwatch for $5 for 3 Match-Made games and such I think generally shouldn't qualify under such only Cheating with 3rd party hacks or cheats or cheating programs.
And yeah I don't mind XingCode, if it would respect privacy, and be fully transparent, (Before) a person buys the game like if Daum would upgrade the Terms OF Service, or put a little checkbox on their stores page that says by purchasing you are aware the game will require XingCode a 3rd party program to be installed you can read about it (Here) with a link, as well as listing on the Steam Sales Page.
They did clear some things up, which is why I more don't trust it, because basically Daum if I understand admitted to what the hackers already said on some blog back away's that XingCode didn't scan files or things outside of the game but their steam Q&A says differently if I am understanding it all correctly
So for now I just keep pushing to make them list it on their store pages properly letting customers know, the sad thing is that when I purchased this they didn't offer refunds to players who couldn't or didn't want to play the game because of this so it was $100 down the drain just for buying the game. I am trying to check within European privacy Laws if there is anything that can be used to make the company have to change their stores page or anything so i've been sending emails to all the contacts I can find with privacy companies, and Legal over there maybe I will get a reply soon, because I tell them how I think my privacy has been violated by XingCode and Daum not letting me know before my purchase.
Yeah I know how easy XingCode is to bypass so if I were a cheater who wanted to like hack in this game bypassing wouldn't be a problem I have a programmer who does code for me I hire him and he makes me good quality stuff with protections as well as could remove XingCode if I asked him to for me proving it doesn't work. But I would rather pay them to do custom code for me for my own needs (Not making cheats) than to spend $1000 in Black Desert over a year.
The problem with Korean Games, is they are quickly thrown together, and so they lack server side checks such as why a person could refill HP/MP, as well as spam skills in BDO with no cool down, personally I still liked "Arche Age" more than BDO, and Trion gave up their Anti-Cheat, and that is why I kept playing for as long as I did once I found out about it I would have uninstalled their game too, but I still stopped playing because of Trions Decision to do Fresh Start servers, and over half the population left due to dumb decision making by Trion.
So why the heck should I pay a company top dollar, spend $100 on costumes and cosmetics in a store, when honestly they can't even offer halfway decent protection against cheaters, and hound me with XingCode as a legitimate player because I use a VPN service, or run Virtualization on my pc, there is no legitimate reason why a company should ever be granted such power over what a user can or can't do outside of their software, Sure there are a lot of blind sheep who want to play the game so they will do this, I used to be one of these, but not anymore, not after seeing XingCode destroy my Android Device, Modify my files, and how it behaves.
I do hope that Crow Fall, or Ashes of Creation, become good games it will be great to see both Albion, and Black Desert lose a lot of its player base, only way to show a company is with your wallet.
So with that, its lost 370 players past 30 days. No matter the reasons, the numbers are still rather good for a game.
Even Skyrim lost a HUGE, and ACTIVE player amount on Steam shortly after release. And Skyrim was a well regarded release and highly rated. However Skyrim as of now is very stable player wise, and even (as seen below) gained players.
However, BDO seems to have found a stable playerbase of 12k-15k on Steam, not counting non-steam version. That is pretty respectable I find. Far from dead.
However, Skyrim actually DOES have more players, and has lost very little in the past 30 days
and in fact Special Edition has GAINED players and hasn't lost any. And regular edition has lost very few, and some of those might have moved to Special Edition.
So comparing the two, BDO is pretty respectable at about 15k roughly players on Steam. Skyrim has roughly double that though. With that said, I haven't looked at other MMOs on Steam to see how their player base is like. MMOs might not be as big as other genres of games on Steam. So the next post I'll go through the stats of what other MMOs look like.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Again, remember this is Steam only, and like BDO, doesn't account for ALL players
That shows less than 10k active, and 8k average. Its lost a bit less than BDO however, but a greater percentage.
You can see here Ryzom isn't even a contestant. However, it is a niche MMO and not that well known or advertised.
You can see RIFT isn't very successful on Steam. Less I'd say than Ryzom, despite Ryzom being such a low player count. Ryzom has the excuse of being a niche, not that well known and not advertised MMO. Though RIFT steam active players haven't gone down much )only -12), though it is by a large percent due to the lower player count.
Again, still less than BDO. Which FFXIV and BDO are top regarded MMOs and both have less players than BDO on Steam. However, ESO has seen a huge increase (500+) of active players.
For a niche MMO, very respectable. That is doing pretty well in its niche.
Kudos to Elite for being successful in its niche. Kudos to ESO for seeing such a large increase in active players. FFXIV losing ground on Steam, overtaken by BDO and ESO. At least, as far as STEAM stats go, remember this does NOT account for non-steam versions of the above MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
In Ultima Online, a huge portion of the playerbase is AFK botting (or macroing they call it, same thing). Plus multi accounts are very common.
In WoW, quite a few people just stand in a city waiting for queues to pop. Plus multi accounts are pretty common, I've met quite a few people who multi account since they don't want to bother with groups for dungeons.
Your EVE example of course.
And any number of other MMOs. This isn't a scientific study where posters post numbers and spend 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands of government tax funded money to find statistics of how many people are on and are active and aren't multi accounts and any number of variances.
No MMO can have scientific numbers, not ESO, not FFXIV not GW2. Even 100s of thousands of dollars worth of research still may not go through ALL the variances of active players and all that stuff.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul