Gameplay is the most important thing.

Prescience

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

gondule

Who are you talking to?

Phry

i wouldn't play a game unless it had enjoyable gameplay, but by the same token, i am not really all that interested in games that don't also have decent graphics, of course it depends on the type of game, but for single player RPG's or MMO's etc. i wouldn't really be interested in a game unless its graphics at least equalled those of FFXIV:ARR.

Mendel

I understand the desire for better graphics and animation.  After 20 years of MMORPG development, I think the need for better game play, abstractions and mechanics are even more important.  I've waited this long for some game to attempt something other than combat-oriented systems, but the genre simply hasn't grown up.  I think customers deserve something better than the exact same game ideas that existed in the very first MMORPGs.

Dullahan

Visionary realms just hired, and are continuing to hire new artists. Improvements and replaced placeholder objects and animations are on their way. Hang tight.

waynejr2

Phry said:

i wouldn't play a game unless it had enjoyable gameplay, but by the same token, i am not really all that interested in games that don't also have decent graphics, of course it depends on the type of game, but for single player RPG's or MMO's etc. i wouldn't really be interested in a game unless its graphics at least equalled those of FFXIV:ARR.

So you  want both...

Prescience

Mendel said:

I understand the desire for better graphics and animation.  After 20 years of MMORPG development, I think the need for better game play, abstractions and mechanics are even more important.  I've waited this long for some game to attempt something other than combat-oriented systems, but the genre simply hasn't grown up.  I think customers deserve something better than the exact same game ideas that existed in the very first MMORPGs.

You want decent graphics but not too good to the point where your average customer has to have a home built high-end rig. Appealing to the masses is better. WoW is another great example of this.

Distopia

Prescience said:

Mendel said:

I understand the desire for better graphics and animation.  After 20 years of MMORPG development, I think the need for better game play, abstractions and mechanics are even more important.  I've waited this long for some game to attempt something other than combat-oriented systems, but the genre simply hasn't grown up.  I think customers deserve something better than the exact same game ideas that existed in the very first MMORPGs.

You want decent graphics but not too good to the point where your average customer has to have a home built high-end rig. Appealing to the masses is better. WoW is another great example of this.

WOW at least went with an attractive Artstyle even if it is lifted straight from Warhammer more or less. It's not all about flashy graphical effects, it's also about the art that is on display. Art can go pretty far on it's own in this department. 

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kyleran

MMORPGs are a sum of their parts, gameplay, graphics, accessibility, customer service, cost vs value and social interactions.

The last item is my number one, and as long as the game is strong in this area even the game play isn't that important.

We all value different things and no game can excel at everything.  Players will have to decide what features they desire most and decide if Pantheon hits most of them. (and is acceptable in the areas it doesn't)

Prescience

Remember to give it time, they will "sharpen up those graphics" before it hits beta without doubt. Right now they are focusing on what is important. 

Prescience

gondule said:

Who are you talking to?

There's no one else here, so you must be talking to me.

Phry

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Prescience said:

Mendel said:

I understand the desire for better graphics and animation.  After 20 years of MMORPG development, I think the need for better game play, abstractions and mechanics are even more important.  I've waited this long for some game to attempt something other than combat-oriented systems, but the genre simply hasn't grown up.  I think customers deserve something better than the exact same game ideas that existed in the very first MMORPGs.

You want decent graphics but not too good to the point where your average customer has to have a home built high-end rig. Appealing to the masses is better. WoW is another great example of this.

WOW at least went with an attractive Artstyle even if it is lifted straight from Warhammer more or less. It's not all about flashy graphical effects, it's also about the art that is on display. Art can go pretty far on it's own in this department. 

Yes, aesthetics... Exactly what I said.

They did a lot with the little they had.

"The amount of lines in one illustration does not defines its quality"

While that is loosely true, its also true that the more detail you are able to use, the better the illustration becomes.
In the end it boils down to what the graphical detail of the game is, and whether or not that is enough to interest you in the game, and while that is not the only criteria to judge a game by, it would be naive indeed to suggest that its not an important one, as it is the visuals themselves that will affect whether or not players decide to even find out more about the game itself.

Phry

DMKano said:

Nah gamaplay is the 2nd most important thing, right after the cash shop. 

The dreaded cash shop!
Kind of funny though, that whenever the arguments come out that gameplay is the most important thing, is when the game in question is lacking in other departments, usually graphics.
Instead i wouldn't put any one aspect of the gameplay as being the most important, though obviously, if the monetisation method was particularly usurious i'd be disinclined to participate regardless of how good the other aspects of the game were.

svann

Phry said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Prescience said:

Mendel said:

I understand the desire for better graphics and animation.  After 20 years of MMORPG development, I think the need for better game play, abstractions and mechanics are even more important.  I've waited this long for some game to attempt something other than combat-oriented systems, but the genre simply hasn't grown up.  I think customers deserve something better than the exact same game ideas that existed in the very first MMORPGs.

You want decent graphics but not too good to the point where your average customer has to have a home built high-end rig. Appealing to the masses is better. WoW is another great example of this.

WOW at least went with an attractive Artstyle even if it is lifted straight from Warhammer more or less. It's not all about flashy graphical effects, it's also about the art that is on display. Art can go pretty far on it's own in this department. 

Yes, aesthetics... Exactly what I said.

They did a lot with the little they had.

"The amount of lines in one illustration does not defines its quality"

While that is loosely true, its also true that the more detail you are able to use, the better the illustration becomes.

IMO thats not true.  Im remembering the garbage that Marvel comics became when they started saturating their panels with literally thousands of details.  They probably thought that looked epic.  Some may have liked that style.  I thought it was awful.

Amathe

They have more than one employee. They can work on different things at the same time. 

CrazKanuk

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Huh..... interesting...... Are you Brad? Just wondering because after all the back and forth about how horrible Ashes of Creation is and it'll never work, you are singing the praises of someone who has tanked more than one project, snorted another up his nose, was responsible for one of the most legendary mass-firings in game industry HISTORY, and started off this project on a VERY sketchy note. I'm not saying Pantheon won't be fantastic, but fuck me! You certainly seem to have a distorted perspective of greatness. 

Oh! Also, we should also note that the track record for "MMORPG Forefathers" with new MMORPGs isn't great at this point being that CU is on a delay of weeks (from over a year ago) and Lord British has enough cash to survive a whopping 3 months. 

I am waiting with bated breath for this game, though, and I hope it's as fantastic as you think it will be. 

Prescience

CrazKanuk said:

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Huh..... interesting...... Are you Brad? Just wondering because after all the back and forth about how horrible Ashes of Creation is and it'll never work, you are singing the praises of someone who has tanked more than one project, snorted another up his nose, was responsible for one of the most legendary mass-firings in game industry HISTORY, and started off this project on a VERY sketchy note. I'm not saying Pantheon won't be fantastic, but fuck me! You certainly seem to have a distorted perspective of greatness. 

Oh! Also, we should also note that the track record for "MMORPG Forefathers" with new MMORPGs isn't great at this point being that CU is on a delay of weeks (from over a year ago) and Lord British has enough cash to survive a whopping 3 months. 

I am waiting with bated breath for this game, though, and I hope it's as fantastic as you think it will be. 

Everyone makes mistakes and once it was fixed Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was one of the better MMORPGs I have played. A lot of people would agree and it's a shame Sony shut it down.

Do I think he made some life mistakes? Certainly. Do I think you've likely made mistakes in your life too? Absolutely.

Do I think EverQuest I was and still remains one of the better MMOs and was a great success with a great mind behind it(McQuaid)? You're damn right I do.

Pemmin

DMKano said:

Nah gamaplay is the 2nd most important thing, right after the cash shop. 

nope your wrong its the 3rd most important thing, marketing budget is number 1

gotta lead people to that cash shop right? 

zanfire

The only downside i personally have with Pantheon is the look. It gives off this very generic fantasy vibe and the character models in particular look off to me. Everything else im excited about but "style" is defiantly the word id say is lacking. Sadly it will push people away if it looks weird or boring to them. This game just feels like its all just pre-done assets that are well put together.

Something like FFXI drew me in because of how different it looked and even to this day its very distinct. EQ though more on the standard fantasy side even looks its own. I think part of it for me is the brighter and more distinct colors vs Pantheons darker tones and more realistic look that kind of feel off to me. 

Nyghthowler

Prescience said:

CrazKanuk said:

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Huh..... interesting...... Are you Brad? Just wondering because after all the back and forth about how horrible Ashes of Creation is and it'll never work, you are singing the praises of someone who has tanked more than one project, snorted another up his nose, was responsible for one of the most legendary mass-firings in game industry HISTORY, and started off this project on a VERY sketchy note. I'm not saying Pantheon won't be fantastic, but fuck me! You certainly seem to have a distorted perspective of greatness. 

Oh! Also, we should also note that the track record for "MMORPG Forefathers" with new MMORPGs isn't great at this point being that CU is on a delay of weeks (from over a year ago) and Lord British has enough cash to survive a whopping 3 months. 

I am waiting with bated breath for this game, though, and I hope it's as fantastic as you think it will be. 

Everyone makes mistakes and once it was fixed Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was one of the better MMORPGs I have played. A lot of people would agree and it's a shame Sony shut it down.

Do I think he made some life mistakes? Certainly. Do I think you've likely made mistakes in your life too? Absolutely.

Do I think EverQuest I was and still remains one of the better MMOs and was a great success with a great mind behind it(McQuaid)? You're damn right I do.

VG was a fucking wreck until SOE bought it out. Craptastic performance, crashes, more bugs then an anthill...
No, I'm not a SOE fanboi, but the truth is the truth. Anything Brad has a finger turns to shit until someone buys him out and makes it semi playable.

Hatefull

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Yeah, there are some very good members of that team, but McQuaid is not one of them. He has a track record of making big promises and not following through, throwing tantrums and getting in over his head, then needing bailouts. 

So I am not saying one way or another on this game, I am only saying that McQuaid is more of a liability than an asset, imo.

svann

Hatefull said:

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Yeah, there are some very good members of that team, but McQuaid is not one of them. He has a track record of making big promises and not following through,

One bad game does not constitute a "track record". 

Prescience

svann said:

Hatefull said:

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Yeah, there are some very good members of that team, but McQuaid is not one of them. He has a track record of making big promises and not following through,

One bad game does not constitute a "track record". 

I still stand by Vanguard being a good game after the issues were resolved. Experience is experience, negative or positive.

EverQuest I was a great game and he was behind most of it.

delete5230

If they went with the World of Warcraft look ( cartoon ), the game would be full featured and done right now........... I know this, and I'm not even a programmer

Kyleran

svann said:

Hatefull said:

Prescience said:

Lets not forget the amount of veterans working on this title. One of them is arguably the father of the modern MMO in the form of Brad McQuaid. These guys know what they are doing and their tracks records prove it.

I'd sooner sacrifice bleeding edge graphics for a quality game play experience. Further, the engines full capability has not be tapped yet. They still can change the animations and go back over the textures to improve the quality a bit.

Those things are usually done later in the development process. For example, as Camelot: Unchained is nearing beta they are just now working on the animations and sounds for abilities. 

Don't judge the graphics yet this game has the potential to be huge. World of Warcraft still looks dated and attracts huge numbers of people.

Yeah, there are some very good members of that team, but McQuaid is not one of them. He has a track record of making big promises and not following through,

One bad game does not constitute a "track record". 

In all fairness, neither does one good game.

Lets call the score 1 for 2 so Pantheon can be the tie breaker.