This game gonna fail so hard if they don't modernize their combat system, too clunky and old-school
I'll take that bet.
What you guys who like action combat fail to realise is there are a lot of players out there who prefer tab targeting. A lot. In fact judging by the top 5 mmo's out there I'd say there are more tab target players than twitch players.
If AoC had gone full twitch spammy reticule aiming action combat, it would have failed. It would have aliened it's intended audience. People in forums like this one make the constant mistake that the popular view here translates into the real world. It doesn't. Just because most players on game forums prefer action combat doesn't mean that is the most popular combat system. We know this becuase an overwhelming number of player never post on game forums.
You have no idea what action combat is. Look at Dark Souls, The Witcher, Nier Automata, Monster Hunter. Do any of them have spammy reticle aiming combat? Yet those are the action rpg games with the best combat systems out there. What people want in MMORPGs is the kind of deep combat systems that allows for skillful play. Is tab-targetting even enjoyable? How many games where you control a single character that are not MMORPGs have that kind of combat system? There is no silent majority that enjoys tab-targetting - most people enjoy action combat but most MMOs so far have have done their combat systems poorly because of technical limitations and the games that have done an okay job at the combat have different problems that do not allow for prolonged gameplay for most people.
I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to pull it off *because* they didn*t have a " industry established figurehead". Given that most of those create a new studio, fail to deliver, create another new studio, fail again, create another one.. being a " industry established figurehead" isn't exactly a quality standard nowadays, on the contrary.
Any succesful (as in, the game got completed mostly as advertised and was good) "high profile" kickstarter campaign that mostly relied on having a " industry established figurehead" ?
Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, even Elite: Dangerous..all done by studios already established way before Kickstarter was a thing., and who relied on that history and experience, instead of a "figurehead".
I'd guess there are a few who meet this crtiera, but i can't remember any, and couldn't find any right now either.
About the best one I can think of would be Hairbrained Schemes (Shadowrun games, and the upcoming Battletech), formed by Jordan Wiseman (famous, but more for creating table-top games), and even then, they had developed two mobile games before going to KS with Shadowrun: Returns.
Wasteland 2 had Brian Fargo who is definitely a well known industry figurehead. (love his crowdfunding videos with the "child" gaming execs) Did a great job and his studio keeps rolling hot.
Will one day play his latest Torment title and hopefully Wasteland 3 which I'll do mostly off his name. (and great reviews of course)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I absolutely hate twitch based combat. It sort of defeats the purpose of character progression, which is pivotal in an MMO. The combat needs to be 'fun-looking', but not FPS-style imho.
I had the impression they showed combat and it was actiony . I had that distinct impression anyway. Well they showed more than say 'Dark and Light' ever did. I hope they succeed.
I had the impression they showed combat and it was actiony . I had that distinct impression anyway. Well they showed more than say 'Dark and Light' ever did. I hope they succeed.
they did show, it was still a very early build ofc and focused almost entirely on casters. From the looks of it, in its current stage, it appeared similar to Neverwinter's combat, which imho is an acceptable compromise between tab-target and action combat.
I kinda liked Nverwinter combat and even ESO was okay, I mean it is for me who cannot do action combat very well manageable with a good 12 button G600 mouse.
I had the impression they showed combat and it was actiony . I had that distinct impression anyway. Well they showed more than say 'Dark and Light' ever did. I hope they succeed.
They showed gameplay of a placeholder standard tab-targetting combat. Dark and Light did not do a kickstarter campaign.
I just cannot believe this got funded. They showed nothing of the game except some pretty visages and gave no real information about the game. Who cares if your towns evolve if your combat and skill systems are crap?
Ask anyone who plays Dwarf Fortress.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I just cannot believe this got funded. They showed nothing of the game except some pretty visages and gave no real information about the game. Who cares if your towns evolve if your combat and skill systems are crap?
Ask anyone who plays Dwarf Fortress.
Dwarf Fortress is held in very high regard in developer circles for their game world evolution and the advanced NPC behavior. It has systems that my son, who has been working as a programmer in game development for more than a decade, and all of his friends in the industry borrow from all the time in developing their own ideas.
It's almost like the holy grail of world development. Someone will eventually incorporate a lot of its ideas into a modern MMO and that will be a game I will really want to play.
Nothing annoys me more in the current crop of MMOs than our need to disregard NPC idiocy and never seeing the game actually change as a result of our actions except by the kludge of phasing tech that separates the world and the players into before and after states.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This game gonna fail so hard if they don't modernize their combat system, too clunky and old-school
I'll take that bet.
What you guys who like action combat fail to realise is there are a lot of players out there who prefer tab targeting. A lot. In fact judging by the top 5 mmo's out there I'd say there are more tab target players than twitch players.
If AoC had gone full twitch spammy reticule aiming action combat, it would have failed. It would have aliened it's intended audience. People in forums like this one make the constant mistake that the popular view here translates into the real world. It doesn't. Just because most players on game forums prefer action combat doesn't mean that is the most popular combat system. We know this becuase an overwhelming number of player never post on game forums.
You have no idea what action combat is. Look at Dark Souls, The Witcher, Nier Automata, Monster Hunter. Do any of them have spammy reticle aiming combat? Yet those are the action rpg games with the best combat systems out there. What people want in MMORPGs is the kind of deep combat systems that allows for skillful play. Is tab-targetting even enjoyable? How many games where you control a single character that are not MMORPGs have that kind of combat system? There is no silent majority that enjoys tab-targetting - most people enjoy action combat but most MMOs so far have have done their combat systems poorly because of technical limitations and the games that have done an okay job at the combat have different problems that do not allow for prolonged gameplay for most people.
"What people want in MMORPGs is . . . "
"There is no silent majority that enjoys . . . "
"Most people enjoy action combat . . . "
I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, but here you are simply replacing his opinion with your opinion. His experience of the gamers he knows, with your experience of the gamers you know. His perceived preferences with your preference.
And, it does help his argument that the longest lasting, most played MMOs are tab target. Also, we are discussing MMOs here and you have used single player ARGPs for your argument, which is simply not the same thing.
The 'success' of this game is inflated due to the affiliate profit sharing plan which is a violation of KS rules. Steven Sharif was spamming content creators with promises of $10000 dollar pay outs so of course many sold out.
Its pretty incredible that people call Marc Jacobs, JT Coleman, Gordon Walton and Richard Garriot scammers and liars yet here we have a MLM guy with an incredibly shady history and zero games development experience making wild claims about 'rebirthing' a multi billion dollar industry.
Xango = miracle juice AoC = miracle MMO
Why are people so gullible.
If Intrepid was self funded like most brand new studios with zero shipped games then I would give them more credit.
The need to claim UE4 single player scenes as 'mmo gameplay', the affiliate spam, trying to ruin a journalists career, overselling the SOE leftovers experience is just way to much to swallow.
I am happy to see they have hired quite a few people to amp it up and get things done. I know a lot of people want to tear into it and see if it lives up to the hype. I am for sure chomping at the bit. They still have 2 Live Streams a month to show progression on the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm somewhere in the middle for optimism and skepticism, but sticking with optimism for the time being.
The things that I'm excited about are revolving around the evolution aspects unsurprisingly, and creating real impact on your environment and the societies you build. The content that they've been continuing to push out on a regular basis keeps me engaged and curious, and I'm not ready yet to express my doubts that they'll be able to do it.
I think about how much hype and disappointment and excitement has cycled through for Star Citizen; even I scoffed at my early backer friends and said they were getting ripped off. But looking at the gameplay videos now, I can believe they'll get there (even if they are eons behind schedule for what they projected). Obviously I'm hoping for speed of production with AoC, but a little leeway doesn't go amiss .
Comments
You have no idea what action combat is. Look at Dark Souls, The Witcher, Nier Automata, Monster Hunter. Do any of them have spammy reticle aiming combat? Yet those are the action rpg games with the best combat systems out there. What people want in MMORPGs is the kind of deep combat systems that allows for skillful play. Is tab-targetting even enjoyable? How many games where you control a single character that are not MMORPGs have that kind of combat system? There is no silent majority that enjoys tab-targetting - most people enjoy action combat but most MMOs so far have have done their combat systems poorly because of technical limitations and the games that have done an okay job at the combat have different problems that do not allow for prolonged gameplay for most people.
Will one day play his latest Torment title and hopefully Wasteland 3 which I'll do mostly off his name. (and great reviews of course)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
they did show, it was still a very early build ofc and focused almost entirely on casters. From the looks of it, in its current stage, it appeared similar to Neverwinter's combat, which imho is an acceptable compromise between tab-target and action combat.
They showed gameplay of a placeholder standard tab-targetting combat. Dark and Light did not do a kickstarter campaign.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
It's almost like the holy grail of world development. Someone will eventually incorporate a lot of its ideas into a modern MMO and that will be a game I will really want to play.
Nothing annoys me more in the current crop of MMOs than our need to disregard NPC idiocy and never seeing the game actually change as a result of our actions except by the kludge of phasing tech that separates the world and the players into before and after states.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"What people want in MMORPGs is . . . "
"There is no silent majority that enjoys . . . "
"Most people enjoy action combat . . . "
I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, but here you are simply replacing his opinion with your opinion. His experience of the gamers he knows, with your experience of the gamers you know. His perceived preferences with your preference.
And, it does help his argument that the longest lasting, most played MMOs are tab target. Also, we are discussing MMOs here and you have used single player ARGPs for your argument, which is simply not the same thing.
Its pretty incredible that people call Marc Jacobs, JT Coleman, Gordon Walton and Richard Garriot scammers and liars yet here we have a MLM guy with an incredibly shady history and zero games development experience making wild claims about 'rebirthing' a multi billion dollar industry.
Xango = miracle juice
AoC = miracle MMO
Why are people so gullible.
If Intrepid was self funded like most brand new studios with zero shipped games then I would give them more credit.
The need to claim UE4 single player scenes as 'mmo gameplay', the affiliate spam, trying to ruin a journalists career, overselling the SOE leftovers experience is just way to much to swallow.
Let's see how the progress reports go from July onwards.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The things that I'm excited about are revolving around the evolution aspects unsurprisingly, and creating real impact on your environment and the societies you build. The content that they've been continuing to push out on a regular basis keeps me engaged and curious, and I'm not ready yet to express my doubts that they'll be able to do it.
I think about how much hype and disappointment and excitement has cycled through for Star Citizen; even I scoffed at my early backer friends and said they were getting ripped off. But looking at the gameplay videos now, I can believe they'll get there (even if they are eons behind schedule for what they projected). Obviously I'm hoping for speed of production with AoC, but a little leeway doesn't go amiss