Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past?

pkpkpk

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

For instance I would play Meridian 59. I like the thought of Ragnarok Online and would like to try the original Lineage, and games like Asheron's Call which I missed. I thought Lineage 2 and its kind--Shaiya, 2Moons, Rappelz, ArchLord--had achieved something pretty and special in the 2000s.

pkpkpk

It would be cool if MMORPGs were like single player games and always stayed the same.  I have some posts collected from about 13 years ago on RPGCodex that talk about the people who play them. 

"You have to understand that any MMOG is first and foremost a meeting place. Socializing is the primary focus of such a game. The game itself is secondary. People who enjoy massive multiplayer onlinge gaming and prefer it to single player gaming are being entertained mostly by the socializing and care less about the game world. "

"They're the natural outgrowth of internet technology and the human need to socialize. The vast majority of people who play MMOs are casual gamers - people with jobs, families, and other hobbies. For them, playing a MMO is simply another way of hanging out with friends (as opposed to, say, a night of pool or poker or PnP). "

"You guys need to understand that what makes a MMO successful is not its gameplay evaluated from a single-player game's perspective, but how its gameplay provides an enjoyable way for people to interact with each other on a long-term basis"

I wonder if this is why they seem to be treated as disposable goods. It sure would be nice if they had stopped being made when they stopped innovating. As an expression of the form with refined graphics, Lineage 2 seemed to be the end of the line. It would be cool if the world of MMORPGs was around two dozen games at most. They just kept making the same thing over and over after 2004 and would not let well enough alone. I suppose if the above quotes are true then that explains it, the players care more about socializing than the game world.

Kyleran

DAOC free shard, 2002 ruleset, just like the good ole days...check it out.

pkpkpk

I never played DAoC. Would you say it has solo leveling or group leveling? I am judging things by the standard of Lineage 2 these days, which I would say was top rate among games with solo leveling in its time. Seems it came out three years after DAOC.

Tiller

OP, that's pretty much 80% of the people here lol

pkpkpk

Tiller said:

OP, that's pretty much 80% of the people here lol

It is hard if not impossible to find an old MMORPG that is not on a private server. Even those we only assume are like the original game. Project 1999 for instance does not have darkness at night time.  Even Lineage 2 and Shaiya, which I would have thought most impervious to change, seem to have undergone much. It is as if, in order to appease a social club, every MMORPG is a headlong charge through change after change. These games seem to have some (IMO) outlandish appeal that is entirely out of keeping with the the fact that are simple hack-and-slash games. Whereas I could take them or leave them, there seem to be fanatics who not only play them all the time but try to dictate and encourage future changes on the message boards. It is sad, truly. I spent at least ten years of my life playing MMORPGs. I wish someone had told me they so ephemeral. A few years here and there and everything is gone. To upgrade my computer to play a game would be a compromise of all my principles. A hundred MMORPGs in the past? Forget 'em! Here's a new one! No, it won't work that way for me. It is sad, though. There is something about MMORPGs that I don't uderstand (I wonder if my second post is right). Here is someone's post from RPGCodex:

"I hate all persistent, artificial vertical growth based on time. Growth can be fine in a round based system where you can start fresh with everyone in a reasonable time (think RTS research) but when the guy that put in 2 years can kill me because he has 100x HP and not because he is a better player; I'm not going to waste time to build up because I don't want to fight people with artificial handicaps. "

This, together with expansion packs, etc. combines to make a daunting, bloated, odd impression of a game. As another poster on RPGCodex wrote:

"People that want a 'second life' want no end states and being able to sit around forever, this is while people that want to play the game eventually max out their character and are left in a static worthless world. "

It is as if the players do not want to play a game so much as buy into (with time) a social role in an exclusive group and use the game as their daily social activities. And of course this means they will want something new to do every  night. No wonder there is opposition to permanent death among the players! Permanent death would mean a game that could end and be restarted, rather than one which grows and grows until it becomes an unfriendly abomination that can only be excused with pleas of "free to play", "fast leveling", and "free level 60 character".  This is in keeping with the general trend of games back in the late '80s and '90s to give unlimited continues, save points, etc, till Sonic the Hedgehog, in which a game had become a million-dollar roller coaster ride.

MightyUnclean

I've tried going back to old games I played in the past.  With the exception of WoW expansions and EQ progression servers, it hasn't worked for me.  If I was trying out an old game for the first time, though, that might work.

cheyane

I went back and played Everquest 2 and even Dark Age of Camelot recently and it was a great experience to go back and play these games again. Unfortunately without the friends I once played with the desire to continue to log on and play rapidly diminished with no hope of rekindling that which made me stay and play them originally.

pkpkpk

cheyane said:

I went back and played Everquest 2 and even Dark Age of Camelot recently and it was a great experience to go back and play these games again. Unfortunately without the friends I once played with the desire to continue to log on and play rapidly diminished with no hope of rekindling that which made me stay and play them originally.

Everquest 2 is an example of one which is no longer recognizable. I chose this over World of Warcraft when it was released, came back after a few years and it was World of Warcraft.  The original game was what was expected from a next-generation game at the time. What they did to it was sad. It is another victim (if my theory is correct) of the socializer. I have only been able to approach an understanding of this type from the comments of others. When I first started Everquest back in 2001 (borrowing use of my grandmother's credit card), I knew I wanted to be in a living, breathing fantasy world. I never thought "perhaps I can make friends here". I had school friends at the time, yet the idea of Everquest appealed more.

13thBen

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

For instance I would play Meridian 59. I like the thought of Ragnarok Online and would like to try the original Lineage, and games like Asheron's Call which I missed. I thought Lineage 2 and its kind--Shaiya, 2Moons, Rappelz, ArchLord--had achieved something pretty and special in the 2000s.

Currently I'm playing Lineage in praparation to lineage2. I too likes games of the past as what you've said. and I think that these games are awesome than some of new games today.

Theocritus

I've found more than anything that it was the friends that kept me playing many of the older games....Most had better communities than the current games....I've tried going back to EQ1 a few times, but my entire guild of over 100 people has completely left the game....Once in awhile I will try an older game but the thrill of most of it is gone and I only play a short time.

postlarval

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

Because even things from the past -- no matter how awesome -- at some point become tiresome and boring.

Wizardry

I of course liked games of past but even those i liked are dated now and would need improving.
Yes  i also wonder why people buy so many bad new games but i have been there.When young we buy way too much that interests our hobbies,like huge record collections or movie collections etc etc.
I guess my point is that when young we don't do a whole lot that makes sense ,we just do it.So then we get older and look back on our foolishness and wonder why others don't smarten up lol.

Just looking at music again and on the radio,i hear some catchy new tunes but soon as something new comes out by a popular artist,that good tune is abandoned for the new stuff.Some new tunes are not even remotely as good as some older tunes but those new tunes will keep selling,day after day,year after year.
Perhaps a keyword to  it all may be BORED,people get bored and will spend/waste money to try and curb their boredom.just watch streamers,some have to fiddle with their cell phones 24/7.fidgeting non stop,it is just a way of life i guess.

pkpkpk

postlarval said:

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

Because even things from the past -- no matter how awesome -- at some point become tiresome and boring.

Even supposing someone was tired of one MMORPG, there were plenty like that. Someone who plays new MMORPGs does so for a fundamentally different reason than someone who would play old MMORPGs. These excuses are penny-ante. You may as well say "I want to be where more people are" and take the blow to your manliness. The constant succession of MMORPG after MMORPG is indefensible on any strong or moral grounds and the one-line excuses are dishonest and tiresome. You can't be a wretch and pretend to be a saint. Your armor is made of cheese cloth.

Remember, without players supporting them, new MMORPGs would not be made. I admit an old MMORPG in an original or near-original state is very hard to find, but that should narrow the choices. Project1999 is still available for groups. And there are classic servers (I think) for Ultima Online. What else is out there is the question I would like to know.

Ridelynn

cheyane said:

I went back and played Everquest 2 and even Dark Age of Camelot recently and it was a great experience to go back and play these games again. Unfortunately without the friends I once played with the desire to continue to log on and play rapidly diminished with no hope of rekindling that which made me stay and play them originally.

My experience with Everquest is similar. I've quit and went back a few times. The last time I still had a few friends there, but the game isn't really the same game I remember playing. The gang wasn't all there, it wasn't the same.

The graphics I can look past. The mechanics are old, but familiar, so I can look past that too. But it runs like absolute crap, and when combined with everything else I have a hard time looking past.

pkpkpk

The responses to this post are telling. Of the several who have responded, only a small few show any promise of being gamers. Recognized code words for "I am a socializer:" "I played those games to death","I see the flaws of those old games", "I'm not stuck in the past." What is the "past", anyway?  Video games had sunk to base killing on every major platform except adventure games by 1986. The principle of killing things over and over for experience and loot comes from 1976 with dnd (for mainframes) if not the pen and paper game from 1974. I know why companies keep making games, but I don't know why players keep buying them.  One thing is sure. I will refute these swiss-cheese arguments over and over. No one who supports new MMORPGs can take an idealogical high ground. You are wading in the trough. The idea that anyone, let alone with millions of dollars at risk, did not understand the design of role-playing games by the late '90s, is absurd. The dynamic that has changed MMORPGs since then has been one of the heart, and it has been between the socializer and the developer. Gamers have looked on with horror. World of Warcraft wasn't a special game. Gamers didn't need "quests" to deceive their mind. Lineage 2 and Ragnarok Online were better than World of Warcraft.

pkpkpk

13thBen said:

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

For instance I would play Meridian 59. I like the thought of Ragnarok Online and would like to try the original Lineage, and games like Asheron's Call which I missed. I thought Lineage 2 and its kind--Shaiya, 2Moons, Rappelz, ArchLord--had achieved something pretty and special in the 2000s.

Currently I'm playing Lineage in praparation to lineage2. I too likes games of the past as what you've said. and I think that these games are awesome than some of new games today.

Are Lineage and Lineage 2 available in a state close to their original?

dougha1

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

Agreed. I still play a single-player game from 2002. The last time I bought a game I think was 2011?

Kyleran

pkpkpk said:

I never played DAoC. Would you say it has solo leveling or group leveling? I am judging things by the standard of Lineage 2 these days, which I would say was top rate among games with solo leveling in its time. Seems it came out three years after DAOC.

It has both, and depending on your patience all leveling can be done solo, though from 40 to 50 most players group up for improved efficiency.

Some classes are better for soloing as well of course, though most have an optimal solo pve spec along with a group spec and perhaps both for RVR.

If you are looking for a high quality "old school"  experience with 1500 to 2500 online at most times of the day this is your place.

TheScavenger

Games of the past are the best. I love stick fighting, I love throw the rock into the hole in the ground. I love chasing after woman and blunting them on the head to show dominance. I hate having to communicate with words and grunts were so much better. I wish today more people lived like cavemen. I hate technology, all this modern stuff sucks so much and is so bad. People living today, have no idea what its like to live as a caveman with no technology anywhere in the world.

Now THAT is a real oldschool experience, but sadly just can't get a genuine experience like that anymore.

Distopia

Kyleran said:

pkpkpk said:

I never played DAoC. Would you say it has solo leveling or group leveling? I am judging things by the standard of Lineage 2 these days, which I would say was top rate among games with solo leveling in its time. Seems it came out three years after DAOC.

It has both, and depending on your patience all leveling can be done solo, though from 40 to 50 most players group up for improved efficiency.

Some classes are better for soloing as well of course, though most have an optimal solo pve spec along with a group spec and perhaps both for RVR.

If you are looking for a high quality "old school"  experience with 1500 to 2500 online at most times of the day this is your place.

If he was into Lineage 2/Ragnarok I think SWG EMU or SWG Bloodfin server would be better suited which have decent player numbers as well. 

postlarval

pkpkpk said:

postlarval said:

pkpkpk said:

Is there anyone like me who likes games of the past and cannot understand why people keep buying the new games?

Because even things from the past -- no matter how awesome -- at some point become tiresome and boring.

Even supposing someone was tired of one MMORPG, there were plenty like that. Someone who plays new MMORPGs does so for a fundamentally different reason than someone who would play old MMORPGs. These excuses are penny-ante. You may as well say "I want to be where more people are" and take the blow to your manliness. The constant succession of MMORPG after MMORPG is indefensible on any strong or moral grounds and the one-line excuses are dishonest and tiresome. You can't be a wretch and pretend to be a saint. Your armor is made of cheese cloth.

Remember, without players supporting them, new MMORPGs would not be made. I admit an old MMORPG in an original or near-original state is very hard to find, but that should narrow the choices. Project1999 is still available for groups. And there are classic servers (I think) for Ultima Online. What else is out there is the question I would like to know.

Google translate has failed you.

Kyleran

Distopia said:

Kyleran said:

pkpkpk said:

I never played DAoC. Would you say it has solo leveling or group leveling? I am judging things by the standard of Lineage 2 these days, which I would say was top rate among games with solo leveling in its time. Seems it came out three years after DAOC.

It has both, and depending on your patience all leveling can be done solo, though from 40 to 50 most players group up for improved efficiency.

Some classes are better for soloing as well of course, though most have an optimal solo pve spec along with a group spec and perhaps both for RVR.

If you are looking for a high quality "old school"  experience with 1500 to 2500 online at most times of the day this is your place.

If he was into Lineage 2/Ragnarok I think SWG EMU or SWG Bloodfin server would be better suited which have decent player numbers as well. 

I can only advise what I've played/currently play. SWG is one I've never tried.

pkpkpk

Kyleran said:

pkpkpk said:

I never played DAoC. Would you say it has solo leveling or group leveling? I am judging things by the standard of Lineage 2 these days, which I would say was top rate among games with solo leveling in its time. Seems it came out three years after DAOC.

It has both, and depending on your patience all leveling can be done solo, though from 40 to 50 most players group up for improved efficiency.

Some classes are better for soloing as well of course, though most have an optimal solo pve spec along with a group spec and perhaps both for RVR.

If you are looking for a high quality "old school"  experience with 1500 to 2500 online at most times of the day this is your place.

1500 to 2500! That is twice as many as Project 1999 and near twice as many as Lineage II Classic. That is good to know. Among these three games, classic gamers have everything they could need. If you include other classic servers like Ultima Online, Final Fantasy XI, and World of Warcraft, there is a lot available. I wonder if anyone knows of other classic MMORPGs from 2004 or earlier with classic servers. Someone mentioned Star Wars Galaxy. If that has a classic server that is worth mentioning too. I know many people like that game.

Well, I will probably decide among DAoC, Ultima Online, Final Fantasy XI, or Lineage 2 if I go back to an MMORPG. Project 1999 is the only one I have tried. I had a rogue, priest and warrior in their teens, but all anyone wanted to do was to kill crocodiles in the Oasis. From that perspective, games with solo leveling are preferable to games with group leveling. You have more freedom on where you can go and what you can do. 

The odd thing is that Final Fantasy XI had similar gameplay in the teens--the area was even a desert--but it was more fun than Everquest. Perhaps people have a point when they say MMORPGs progressed in some way. This was only true to a point, though. I don't know of any MMORPG after Everquest 2 and World of Warcraft that tried to take the genre forward, as it were.

pkpkpk

I will begin a chronological list of MMORPGs from 2004 and earlier with classic servers. Let me know if you know of any others:

Ultima Online (1997)
Everquest (1999)
Dark Age of Camelot (2001)
Final Fantasy XI (2002)
Lineage II (2003)
Shadowbane (2003)
Star Wars Galaxies (2003)
World of Warcraft (2004)

Loke666

There have certainly been some great games in the past and a few of them are still fun to play. 90% of the games of any period have been pretty bad though and even among the good 10% few have aged with dignity.

And MMOs tend to suck after more then 5 expansions, the games really aren't made for that from the start and the pace will get really bad after a few increases in levelcap while the older zones will have worse drops and basically be ghost zones.