Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Do all MMORPG leave people angry?

Ive noticed that when people get to a point where they no longer like or lose interest in a game, they always say it was good but it has changed for the worse.  If these companies consistently hear that their "changes" are not liked by the people who play them, why do they bother changing?  For example the combat interface in SWG, all i've heard is people say the game has been ruined.   I'm starting to feel the same way about the few games I've had as well.   I end up liking them a lot in the beginning but end up almost hating them.  Will there ever be another game that kept people interested for more than a year?  Ive heard of people playing ULTIMA and EVERQUEST for years on end.  How do they do it?

Comments

  • Malachi1975Malachi1975 Member Posts: 1,079

    Biggest thing to keep in mind about people in the forums complaining is that these people are obviously, at least in most cases, the minority. You ask why these companies keep making the changes? Well, because there are still people playing. Squeeky wheels don't necessarily get the grease when it comes to forum complaints. Also, a lot of complaints are just generic "I hate you all so much so I am going to bash anything you do without any real specifics" rather than constructive criticism.

    In just about every MMO I have played in the last 8ish years there has almost always been a group of hardcore players who have been able to affect the outcome of changes to the games in some sense or another. So it goes to show there are ways to get the devs to listen to us. I am sure that if a change was so bad that 60% of the client base quit immediately ( sure, there are going to be people running around telling you right now that say SWG has lost that much. Get the proof. Assuming just makes an ass out of u and Ming. The Chinese consulate says leave Ming alone ) then we would see these dev companies either roll back to the way things were or watch the game to tuts up to the wind.

    I have RARELY left a game in anger. I can't really think of anytime I have. I just left because I was ready to move on. I guess that's part of maturity though. Same as people who can't break up in a relationship without all the trash talk and angst. Sometimes in life you just realise you've changed and whatever or whomever you are involved hasn't so you move on.

    As for the people who have played for years and years I think it's mainly good groups of friends. I have found that if I have a "good" group of friends I am playing with it extends the lifespan of that game for me exponentially. Some people have made really great friends back in the old school MMOs that it keeps them there. They have some emotional investment in that game, character, and its relationships. Problem with the newer MMOs is that we are so innundated as gamers that we just don't get that involved anymore. Possibly too that the more casual gamer and the more...well...idiotic gamer have become more prevalent that the "feel" of the games have changed. MMOs are going the same way movies are: They have to get bigger, grander, more visually stimulating, or more complex to keep our interest since we've seen and done everything already. For the most part modern MMOs just aren't cutting it when it comes to this. Right now for me, with the exception of Eve Online which I seem to come and go with my interest there, 4-6 months is the absolute longest lifespan for an MMO for me.

    "What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  • RazorbackRazorback Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 5,253
    Also in my experience the people actually posting on the forums of any given game are only like 5% of the games population.

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694

    i agree with razorback

    Gamers.... Or People in general have this problem that when something gets them angry they find anyway possible to make their pain known to anyone who will listen... or even to some that dont want to...
    But If they enjoy a product then they are slow to go through the process of giving praise... ONly when brought up in Conversation...

    Same for games... When Someone thinks a game they bought sucks.. they go out of their way to make sure that others know how much the game sucks, because they feel that the company has stolen money from them... but a person who likes the game will be to busy enjoying the game to go all over the place posting how great it is... Well that is... unless you want more people to play the game you're advertising..

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • Malachi1975Malachi1975 Member Posts: 1,079
    Pretty much as I said. They are the minority. Sad thing is if you go about, as Meth was saying, and tout the joys of a game you are immediately labelled a "fanboy" with blind loyalties. Personally, I am starting to wonder if the nature of the "forum beast" in and of itself is negative. Who knows...

    "What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  • zoey121zoey121 Member Posts: 926

    No there are some i tried had no "emotions attached when letting go"

     So far there really is only one i am angry with, but  let go of the anger by letting the account run out and play something else. I do understand why some folks are very much opposed to certain companies now, i do not think i would have understood that before...........

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    Your poll questions are kinda bad. What do you mean by "The average MMO"?

    The "Average" of all the MMO's I've TRIED I got bored or decided I didn't like them within a month, maybe two. But the "Average" of all the MMO's I've LIKED enough to BUY has been well in excess of 3 months.

    So which 'average' are you looking for?

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • fadeprooffadeproof Member Posts: 13
    True, in retrospect my polls are not the best.  What I really meant is any mmo, just used "average" to sum up the whole lot of them.
  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509

    I honestly think it's just the nature of the game itself. I've always thought that MMO's demand just as much from it's players as we demand of the games. For example; many of these games demand a heck of a good machine to play them and so we invest quite a bit of funds towards them, many of them just simply can't entertain everyone the same way on a whim and so we have make our own forms of entertainment with guilds/players run events and such. As a result the player base loyal to that game becomes emotionally attached, they become passionate and defensive.

    I think this is primarily the cause of alot of angst towards change, in some cases the lack of it, in these modern mmo's and we start to see the "Why are you changing MY game" posts with nasty little notes attached to them. I think where the paradox begins is that these are the players that the MMO developers want, they stay with the game for the 1 to 3 year time spans but at the same time, they are also the population that gives them the hardest time, complaining and harrassing whenever they do something that is unpopular, the CU being the perfect example of this in SWG.

    So I think in the end you can't have one without the other, sure you'll have some great players that love the game, take what happens in stride and tries to enjoy the game in whatever form it may come in, these are typically players that have been around the MMO block and knows what to expect from the genre. But you'll always find those that are passionate and need a way to filter that out towards something, and I honestly don't think you can have a decent MMO without them.

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    Alot of the complaints you hear on forums are just bored people trying to get a rise out of someone else for sport or what I like to refer to as "Trekkie Syndrome".

    "Trekkie Syndrome", abreviated to TS from here on out, it the fanboy belief that whatever media franchise they are a fan of is somehow "Theirs". It's not just a game to these people, it's a way of life / difining character trait / overcompensation for personal shortcommings, deep down to the bone part of who they are . In the TS mindset, any change that they even remotely dislike is a personal attack and violation. Why? Because, "IT'S THEIR FREAKIN' GAME!!!" They can't deal with the reality that it isn't their game and they run away to cry and moan, for a little while. Eventually they'll run back to the game they've been bad mouthing, just like any addict or co-dependendant masochist. Thus the cycle begins anew.

    Before you put too much faith in hate / rage posts about this or that game, ask yourself this question: If they're really so into these kinds of games, why aren't they playing them? Why haven't they moved to another game? You see, the really hardcore gamers are too busy playing to post on these forums. In fact, I doubt that the hardest among the "Hardcore" even know about this forum.

    P.S. I don't consider myself "HARDCORE!!!" because I'd rather play games than attempt to be the definition of a marketing buzzword.

  • bverjibverji Member UncommonPosts: 722



    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    Biggest thing to keep in mind about people in the forums complaining is that these people are obviously, at least in most cases, the minority.


    Far more people leave then stay with a MMOG and mostly IMO because they tend to be developed and produced by people in suits who may or may not game occasionally and not by people who game as a hobby.
  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    I'm guessing you've noticed this because you read the game's forums (official or otherwise)?

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    I'm not trying to enforce anything. I've been playing online game since the days of Doom and Warcraft: Orcs Vs. Humans (that's the first one for those of you that don't know). The whole point of playing a Multiplayer game is for the human interaction or competition. That's why it kinda leaves me scratching my head that some people spend huge wads of cash on a computer, game box and monthly account for online games that they play all by themselves. It's like buying a sports car and then leaving it in the garage under tarp without ever driving it.

    I am perfectly aware that there is a shortage of good single / multiplayer RPGs on the PC. For quite some time there's been a shortage of games ON THE PC period! Consoles are a different matter and now that we have specialty game stores I've been doing a "Buy and Trade back" thing with single player RPGs. It's like eating cereal, you can't open a new box until you're finished with the last box. In the end I only spend about $5 to $15 a month. Roughly the same amount of money I'd spend playing a MMORPG

  • HatorianHatorian Member Posts: 164

    MMORPG's gets boring when you have to grind for your levels. Especially when you are playing a PVP MMORPG they make the exp go down so you'll keep on playing for that one level up. Geez they don't know that this kind of thing makes a game boring. Making players to try other games and look for free games and not wanting to pay anymore ::::11::::::11::

    Im Amazed..... NOT!!!

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378
    By and large, forums are a place for normally nice people to come and bitch whine and moan about whatever in life is bothering them. You have to read carefully and I have found that most negative opinions are lies or half truths from people who are just angry for whatever reason. Read my avatar for a guide to the MMORPG.com forums. image

    image
  • Pk4UPk4U Member Posts: 127

    No game has even driven me to anger. Of couse, some have annoyed me. But of all the games I've left, it was a sad thing. It sucks to leave all the friends you make, but when a game just isn't fun for you anymore, its time for you to move on.

    If its because of changes you don't like, just plain bordom, or your frields already left, its still the same thing really. And the games that i've enjoyed do still get money from me. All my favorite games still get a look from me when a major change happens, or they release a expansion, that I would actully want to play. Some of them I even play again for a month or three, but rarely longer.

  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,043

    Well, I kind of say it's a mixed bag between your playing style and the game developers. For example, I consider myself a hardcore player, let's take EQ2 for example. I was the 4th Berserker in the game (like day 2 after release). On maybe the 4th day of the game being out, they nerfed the Berserker AoE dramatically. It originally hit (only a handful of people ever witnessed it's real power) for between 200-900 damage instantly. When you take a skill that powerful, and knock it down to 40-200 (at level 24 anyway) it leaves a foul taste in your mouth. That was an instance where I became quite frustrated at a game, because it seemed like I was being punished due to their poor beta testing.

    Another problem MMO's can have is the people who play them. I for one cancelled my account on EQ2 due to the playerbase, which I hated immensely.The other people who kept up with me (Blackburrow server) were incredibly greedy and selfish. Our guild, Thanatos, had some really great people in it, but was plagued by the greed of the leaders and the highest levels (not me, I refused their set party offer). I think when you play an MMO, friendships are very important, and when friendships are compromised by human greed, it really turns the game into more of a soap opera, filled with drama.

    In my experience, I've gotten tired of games before, but left with a good feeling. However, EQ2 left me with an angry feeling. It seemed to me like the devs weren't listening, and the players were all surrounded by ulterior motives. Granted, I only played for 3 months, but I really felt pissed off that I gave them my money, and was ashamed to have wasted that much time on the game.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036




    I've left several games out of disappointment (ex. EQ2),
    frustration (ex. FFXI), and just plain boredom (most of the rest),
    but only one game have I ever left out of anger. Dark Ages, not to
    be confused with DAoC, is a little known Korean MMO, and happens
    to be the first I'd ever played. I'd put nearly 2 years of my life
    into that game, the longest time I'd spent playing any MMORPG,
    because the friends I'd made there made the game bearable. The
    devs in that game just seemed not to care, many people's accounts
    were blocked without explanation; "If you dont like it, dont play"
    was essentially the typical response to most customer service
    e-mails; also for a long time, one particular player was recieving
    "special treatment" due to her relationship with one of the devs,
    (by special treatment, I mean, among other things, money, rare
    items, and even new items that had not been made available to the
    public yet. It was no big secret to the populous that she was
    getting these things, the only thing hidden about it was the
    identity of the dev providing her with these favors.) and anyone
    who spoke against her was blocked for "harrasment", which never
    seemed to be enforced otherwise; classes were totally unbalanced
    to the point where some were unplayable; the community was one of
    the worst I've seen, this was particularly a problem since
    everything right down to choosing a class requires the help of
    another player.




    So yeah, it's enough to make one angry. My friends from that game,
    many of whom also left before me for the same reasons, were the
    best and most trusted I'd ever made in an MMORPG, which made it
    tough to let that go. In retrospect, however, I suppose I'm more
    angry at the fact that people are making money off of folks with
    that horrible game, and I was one of those folks for a very long
    time. I dont, however, believe in outright insults or else you
    would've seen some jim dandy ones above (suppress the
    demons...breathe...breathe), but that wont stop me from giving my
    honest opinion in a forum. I try to make it a point to make note
    of the good as well as the bad for the sake of fairness. Most
    games have good things to offset the bad to a point hence
    preventing "angry" and leaving "disappointed" or "frustrated" in
    it's wake, and on occasion "content". But not since the first EQ
    have I played a game that's really held my interest for an
    extended period or time, and that one had some major flaws as
    well. I think the MMORPG market has just hit a low point is all.
    We just need some really innovative, original, in depth games with
    just the right amount of challenge and I think we'd probably see a
    decline in those angry posts.




  • ChieftanChieftan Member UncommonPosts: 1,188


    Originally posted by Malachi1975
    Pretty much as I said. They are the minority. Sad thing is if you go about, as Meth was saying, and tout the joys of a game you are immediately labelled a "fanboy" with blind loyalties. Personally, I am starting to wonder if the nature of the "forum beast" in and of itself is negative. Who knows...

    Yep. People on msg boards love to yammer on about EverQuest's community but I'd like to hear an explanation as to why said community dissolved practically overnight when WoW came out.

    WoW might be derivative but at the same time it took a hammer to alot alot MMO conventions that EQ fostered. If you read an EQ message board during it's heyday it was easy to be misled into thinking that everybody was a hardcore raider, everybody had a regular group and everybody hated PVP. No wonder the devs were making such crappy expansions.

    Sad thing is Brad McQuaid seems to think this mythical community still exists.

    My youtube MMO gaming channel



  • BarryManilowBarryManilow Member UncommonPosts: 701



    Originally posted by Malachi1975
    Pretty much as I said. They are the minority. Sad thing is if you go about, as Meth was saying, and tout the joys of a game you are immediately labelled a "fanboy" with blind loyalties. Personally, I am starting to wonder if the nature of the "forum beast" in and of itself is negative. Who knows...



    To me a fanboi is someone who blindingly loves a game, calls everyone else a retard because they don't like his game and then later on quits his game because there is another game out which is "better".

     

    There is a difference between a fanboi and an addict of a game.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Those companies think that having a minority who is loyal and subscribing endlessly is better then having a better product.

     

    They focus on lame stuff, like enforcing raiding, which gain them an unending loyalty from the unworthy who can abuse this feature.  This loyalty is something they value, because it mean money.  Many peoples who dont enjoy this bad aspect still play for more or less long, which is why they keep thinking it is a good move.  However, this is relatively medium terms thinking, in the long terms non-raiders wont bear that and leave and they limit the target audience to a pool of raiders only, which is extremely harmfull to the game.

     

    Of course, many logicals persons will leave the game angry, they where not allowed to progress in the aspect they care for, yet the company did everything they can to make them believe otherwise (Johny way of saying solo is nice in EQ is epic on this subject).

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036


    I dont think thats a very fair statement to make. I, personally, have
    never been big into raiding myself. I've tried it a couple of times, and
    it really was fun, but not something I'd feel like committing my entire
    ingame career to. However it's only natural that the best of the best
    equipment come from creatures you need 20+ people to kill, just as
    critters you can kill solo shouldnt offer the same rewards as those you
    need 3 or 4 friends to help you take down. Higher effort/danger should
    absolutely equal more reward. Thats not to say that you cant enjoy
    yourself ingame without raiding, just that you wont gain all of the neat
    toys that the raiders come by unless you save up the money to buy them
    from someone.




    The bigger problem here is that people (both raiders and non-raiders)
    tend not to like to let others play the way they'd prefer, with
    mean-spirited, or spiteful comments. So it's not really the play style
    that's the issue, it's the attitudes of the players, and it's not just
    one-sided.

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077


    Originally posted by Anofalye
    Those companies think that having a minority who is loyal and subscribing endlessly is better then having a better product.

    They focus on lame stuff, like enforcing raiding, which gain them an unending loyalty from the unworthy who can abuse this feature. This loyalty is something they value, because it mean money. Many peoples who dont enjoy this bad aspect still play for more or less long, which is why they keep thinking it is a good move. However, this is relatively medium terms thinking, in the long terms non-raiders wont bear that and leave and they limit the target audience to a pool of raiders only, which is extremely harmfull to the game.

    Of course, many logicals persons will leave the game angry, they where not allowed to progress in the aspect they care for, yet the company did everything they can to make them believe otherwise (Johny way of saying solo is nice in EQ is epic on this subject).

    Hmmm... interesting theory but when held up to a litmus test it seems to fall flat:
    UO didn't enforce anything of the kind. It was very open ended and extremely well written and had gameplay for the average casual player as well as the power gamer and the PVP hungry.

    EQ was TEAM (not raid) oriented and focussed on getting players to work together in groups to accomplish common goals.

    Which game did better? UO or EQ? Which game is doing better now, years later, than 90% of the rest of the industry? WoW, by the way, while friendly to the casual gamer till about level 55 or so is ALSO very group/raid centric once you hit 55+ (some say 50+) and it's the MOST successful MMO on the market currently.

    So your theory is flawed. I'm not a huge fan of EQ, I played it as long as it was the best option out there but once other options (DAOC, SWG, EVE, etc) came along I left the game. As did many others. But the fact of the matter is that EQ hit on a working solution:
    Give casual players the ability to play the game but FOCUS on the folks who will stay with you for the long haul.

    The proof is in the bell curve that every other MMO shows: growth, peak.... decline... EQ shows nothing but growth for YEARS and then flatlines and then SLOWLY declines, but not really, until it's own successor is released..... Now it is definitely starting to lose players, and rapidly, because it's players are moving over to EQ2 and WoW (Both, by the way, based upon it)

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • whisper78whisper78 Member Posts: 3

    The 2nd reply on this topic from the person stated that Games will change and that only the minorities complain. Id like to remind you of  SWGPetition.com where over 150,000 players logged on and complained......and before anyone says that 1/2 were invalid and players were logging on more then once to that petition let me remind you that out of the 332+ thousand petitions only about 100k were deleted due to people logging in as "jesus" or "Darth Vader"

     

    I myself petitioned it and went to every planet auction chat for days rallying people who were dissatisfied with it......SOE is ignoring everything...The reason these games can and will change is because SOE is part of SONY and Sony has thier hands in everything on this earth from Televisions, movies, toys, computers, games, and even digging in hardware utilities. Thus SWG has lost about 1/2 or more of its main subscribers and SOE never appologized for thier unexperienced and non tested patch that ruined the game.....Instead they launched commercials for SWG hoping to get players in that didn't know what it used to be.

     

    In the end..........There will the day when a MMORPG is made that the population wants...the problem is the population is usualy divided between better pvp and combat.......and pve and quests. With that in mind I have seen tons of mmorpgs end up patching and revamping thier games ending up being the complete opposite of what we all loved.

     

    Patches are suppose to give us more items, zones, playable charecters, races, pve, pvp and other stuff......when the patch takes away instead of opens up people will leave the game

     

    Whisperingpromise

    A wise gm on many games

  • Pk4UPk4U Member Posts: 127

    It varies, some companys (SoE) seem to be all about the money. And other companys (CCP, Playnet) seem to be more about the game.

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077


    Originally posted by whisper78
    The 2nd reply on this topic from the person stated that Games will change and that only the minorities complain. Id like to remind you of SWGPetition.com where over 150,000 players logged on and complained......and before anyone says that 1/2 were invalid and players were logging on more then once to that petition let me remind you that out of the 332+ thousand petitions only about 100k were deleted due to people logging in as "jesus" or "Darth Vader"

    I myself petitioned it and went to every planet auction chat for days rallying people who were dissatisfied with it......SOE is ignoring everything...The reason these games can and will change is because SOE is part of SONY and Sony has thier hands in everything on this earth from Televisions, movies, toys, computers, games, and even digging in hardware utilities. Thus SWG has lost about 1/2 or more of its main subscribers and SOE never appologized for thier unexperienced and non tested patch that ruined the game.....Instead they launched commercials for SWG hoping to get players in that didn't know what it used to be.

    In the end..........There will the day when a MMORPG is made that the population wants...the problem is the population is usualy divided between better pvp and combat.......and pve and quests. With that in mind I have seen tons of mmorpgs end up patching and revamping thier games ending up being the complete opposite of what we all loved.

    Patches are suppose to give us more items, zones, playable charecters, races, pve, pvp and other stuff......when the patch takes away instead of opens up people will leave the game

    Whisperingpromise
    A wise gm on many games


    I will remind you that when they RE-STARTED from SCRATCH on that site (specifically because even after removing the OBVIOUS fake entries they found that t here were NUMEROUS dupe entries and questionable ones) with a new method that discouraged enetering false information they wound up with only 17,000 signatures that were supposedly authentic (but potentially included people who weren't necessarily currently playing the game). Not that that isn't a lot of signatures but even if it IS authentic, 17,000 is still a very small minority in a game of over 250,000 players.

    Also, SOE didn't *ignore* the players. They came right out and said that Lucas and SOE *expected* that they would lose customers but the changes were *necessary* for them to grow the game. So, yes, they knew a lot of people didn't like it. They KNEW they'd lose customers but they felt the change was important for the game to remain successful so they did it anyway. And it looks like they were right because the game is a lot more crowded now than it's been ever, including release.

    Also: I don't know where you're getting your figures but SWG's population is climbing, not shrinking, and it has NEVER dropped by 'half' as you proclaim. It hasn't shown on MMORPGCHART yet because the data hasn't been updated but every server in the game is showing heavier populations than pre-CU and every person who actually plays now is saying the game is crowded and getting more-so daily.

    Even if you only go strictly by MMORPGCHART you see that in June (a month after CU) the population of the game held steadyat 255,000 in June's data. So, at worst, the game remained the same in total population or, as most of us who are actually in game seeing the growth have been saying, it's grown a lot. Personally, since I've seen the population growth first hand, I am inclined to think SWG is growing currently, largely due to EPIII's release.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

Sign In or Register to comment.