My personal tastes haven't changed over the years, but was has changed is that I at least know what my personal tastes are now. In the past when I was still exploring the genre, I didn't really know what I liked or didn't like so I would try a lot of games out. Some I'd last a day, some a week, some a few months before I identified something I could get over - be it weak / shallow combat, too linear questing, crazy power gaps or just an IP I couldn't connect with.
So, these days, I at least know exactly what I like, and more importantly, I know exactly what sort of features will kill my enjoyment of an MMO.
On top of that, the genre has changed. The biggest change has been the move to action-combat. It is a style of combat I simply don't enjoy, I find it too shallow and unengaging for long term play. I can put up with it for 30-50 hours (standard single player RPG) but even with them, I'm usually bored by the end. For an MMO where I expect to play for years, I just can't stand the boredom.
So, like the OP, I sit around waiting for something new and engaging to come along. All my hopes are pinned on Camelot Unchained but we're still a long way from release on that one. I'm curious to see what Amazon can do with New World, but hold little hope for that.
Yes. Gnothi seauton. A wise thing. I, otoh, can't get enough of action combat and can't understand why would anyone not want a Star Wars game with TERA / BnS' combat. Maybe you can explain? Also, @Tiller , you're a superbeast! 300 mmos! I can't name even 100 of them lol.
So, when it comes to combat mechanics that can be enjoyed for years, the key factor for me is mental engagement. "Depth" is the term usually thrown about, depth being defined as the number of meaningful decisions one has to make.
In a standard action combat game, resource management is usually very easy and the number of skills I can use is usually quite small. So, at any given moment during combat in an action game, my choices are usually:
Basic attack
Block
Dodge
Move
Use a skill (choice of 5/7/10/12)
The Souls/borne series would like to have a word with you, they have been built around this and offer more depth then any MMORPG I know, including Vanilla LotRO, and I played a Loremaster there
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Yup, not played those series.
How have they managed to add depth to the combat? Do you have a lot of skills to choose from during combat? If you choose the wrong skill, will it have much of an effect on the outcome?
My limited understanding of the Dark Souls series is that it is very hardcore, so you have to be on it in terms of reacting quickly and attacking at the correct time, but I was unaware of any deep decision making required.
@cameltosis I'll try to explain what gives depth to the Souls/borne series its combat. Let me be clear, it does NOT have a lot of skills and you do NOT need to be lightning quick.
Your character will have some attacks (light/heavy and some follow up attacks) and a bit of magic and thats about it. He/she can also dodge, parry, block and lock on ( this actually gives you a disadvantage in quite a few fights as it comes at the cost of mobility).
Every attack drains energy and the only way to refill is by doing nothing. The heavier the armor you are wearing the faster energy drains when running, dodging etc. The heavier the weapon the faster it drains when attacking. Magic does not drain energy but has a limited amount of uses before you have to refill. You have to constantly decide when to recover energy, when to move, when to hit. This is the basic setup, there are however a LOT of factors you have to take into consideration:
-The games uses physics. Want to use a big spear in a small hallway? To bad, it will bounce of the walls constantly. You want to swing that large two handed axes on a narrow ledge? Make sure your attack connects or the momentum of the weapon will make you throw yourself of the ledge.
-Every weapon has a different range and attack speed. Learn your weapon and know when to use what and more importantly, when not. It is all about timing and trying to be fast will get you killed a LOT. You need to show constraint.
-Spatial awareness. Know where you are. The small hallway and narrow ledge examples mentioned above are just a fraction of things you have to take into account. Ledges might crumble, traps might spring, kegs might explode and be full of poisoning gas etc. ALWAYS know where you are.
-Situational awareness. Try running across a castle way with archers everywhere. Try running across it with a fire spewing dragon flying over it scorching everything in sight. It can be done, but you need to know what the hell is happening. Stuff is happening constantly and you need to know what can and will happen.
-Then there are the types of resistance gear that might help, the covenants you can join, the NPCs that can ALL be killed etc.
This might sound like a mess but in reality it comes together beautifully. It requires constant thinking, judging and re-evaluating the situation, determination and an immense amount of constraint by not pushing it to far. It is gorgeous and there is nothing like it.
Hope this clears things up a bit. I am a fan but certainly no pro at the series so I've probably left a ton of things out. If anything, I strongly recommend you trying one of these games out and stick with it for a fair bit. Some parts are rage inducing at first but can be very easy once mastered (Looking at you capra demon!).
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"It is what it is" I know that is an over simplified explanation, but the truth remains. You aren't enjoying anything. I guess I'd say....."Does it really matter if it's you or the genre, or both, or none? You don't like what's out there. So, walk away. Come back later and see if you've changed you mind.
you guys forget one little thing, why make a new AAA MMO when a simple cash shop game with crap graphic and lame gameplay can get then more money thena well made and lots of lore and content?, better jus make the same dungeon with 3-4 diferent levels of dificulty and let the players spend time and money on then, amke gear progression so long and costfull it will make you want to buy the easier way who is selling coveniently in the cash shop.
todays MMO is like the goverment, create situations who make problem then offer a solution to a problem they make so they can raise the money they can take from you, and if possible put a new problem in the mix so in the future they will offer a solution for a problem they made, ad infinitum
you guys forget one little thing, why make a new AAA MMO when a simple cash shop game with crap graphic and lame gameplay can get then more money thena well made and lots of lore and content?, better jus make the same dungeon with 3-4 diferent levels of dificulty and let the players spend time and money on then, amke gear progression so long and costfull it will make you want to buy the easier way who is selling coveniently in the cash shop.
todays MMO is like the goverment, create situations who make problem then offer a solution to a problem they make so they can raise the money they can take from you, and if possible put a new problem in the mix so in the future they will offer a solution for a problem they made, ad infinitum
in another thread on this forum I am having posters tell me that they enjoy the game play we find in existing MMOs and that they do not enjoy the game play found in games like The Forest BUT at the same time they are unhappy with MMOs and while I am excited and happy with games like The Forest they are not interested.
To the casual observer what I am saying might seem not related to what you just said but to the wise they can see how it very much is
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
Your character will have some attacks (light/heavy and some follow up attacks) and a bit of magic and thats about it. He/she can also dodge, parry, block and lock on ( this actually gives you a disadvantage in quite a few fights as it comes at the cost of mobility).
Every attack drains energy and the only way to refill is by doing nothing. The heavier the armor you are wearing the faster energy drains when running, dodging etc. The heavier the weapon the faster it drains when attacking. Magic does not drain energy but has a limited amount of uses before you have to refill. You have to constantly decide when to recover energy, when to move, when to hit. This is the basic setup, there are however a LOT of factors you have to take into consideration:
-The games uses physics. Want to use a big spear in a small hallway? To bad, it will bounce of the walls constantly. You want to swing that large two handed axes on a narrow ledge? Make sure your attack connects or the momentum of the weapon will make you throw yourself of the ledge.
-Every weapon has a different range and attack speed. Learn your weapon and know when to use what and more importantly, when not. It is all about timing and trying to be fast will get you killed a LOT. You need to show constraint.
-Spatial awareness. Know where you are. The small hallway and narrow ledge examples mentioned above are just a fraction of things you have to take into account. Ledges might crumble, traps might spring, kegs might explode and be full of poisoning gas etc. ALWAYS know where you are.
-Situational awareness. Try running across a castle way with archers everywhere. Try running across it with a fire spewing dragon flying over it scorching everything in sight. It can be done, but you need to know what the hell is happening. Stuff is happening constantly and you need to know what can and will happen.
-Then there are the types of resistance gear that might help, the covenants you can join, the NPCs that can ALL be killed etc.
This might sound like a mess but in reality it comes together beautifully. It requires constant thinking, judging and re-evaluating the situation, determination and an immense amount of constraint by not pushing it to far. It is gorgeous and there is nothing like it.
Hope this clears things up a bit. I am a fan but certainly no pro at the series so I've probably left a ton of things out. If anything, I strongly recommend you trying one of these games out and stick with it for a fair bit. Some parts are rage inducing at first but can be very easy once mastered (Looking at you capra demon!).
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You don't like what's out there. So, walk away. Come back later and see if you've changed you mind.
todays MMO is like the goverment, create situations who make problem then offer a solution to a problem they make so they can raise the money they can take from you, and if possible put a new problem in the mix so in the future they will offer a solution for a problem they made, ad infinitum
To the casual observer what I am saying might seem not related to what you just said but to the wise they can see how it very much is
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me