Patch 20 - Patch Notes (new Vet rewards, Jedi can group etc.)

Erillion

On July 19th, 2005 at 4:00 AM PDT all servers will be taken down for a publish update.
Publish 20
July 19, 2005


Update Headlines!

Galactic Gifts - In Honor of Star Wars Galaxies(TM) 2nd Anniversary!
Veteran Rewards – New Veteran rewards have been added in this publish
Profession : Entertainer – Addition of a new song, a new dance, dance props and exciting flourishes
Profession : Jedi - Group members no longer add to a Jedi's visibility
Player Structures - When a house is transferred the Admin lists will no longer clear.
Kashyyyk - Players can now enter into the Falls Cave in the Dead Forest on Kashyyyk.
Galactic Gifts - In Honor of Star Wars Galaxies(TM) 2nd Anniversary!

Star Wars Galaxies officially turned two on June 26, 2005 ! Beginning with Publish 20, when you log in to the game with an active character that is at least 30-days old and your account is in good standing, you will be offered the opportunity to claim your very own anniversary gift, a choice of one of two Holograms - the Corellian Corvette or the Lambda Shuttle! These holograms will brighten up any house and are set on a unique base that has a roman numeral two integrated to highlight this momentus occasion. Long live the SWG Empire! Oops... Long live the SWG Alliance !

Enjoy this awesome gift with our thanks!

The Star Wars Galaxies Team

*Eligibility Requirements and Tradeable Status:

Accounts in good standing are eligible to receive one (1) gift per active Character during the distribution window.
Anniversary gifts may be redeemed at any time between Publish 20 (currently scheduled on or about July 19, 2005 ) through Publish 22 (currently scheduled on or about August 15, 2005 ). Gifts must be claimed on or before August 15, 2005 at 11:59PM PDT . Publish dates are subject to change.
To be eligible, your character must be at least 30 days old.
The anniversary gifts will be tradeable in-game.
These holograms are a virtual property and not available as a tangible item.
Vet Rewards

Veteran Rewards allow us to offer players rewards in recognition of their investment in Star Wars Galaxies. The intent of the Veteran Rewards program is to show our appreciation to players who have been a part of the Star Wars Galaxies community over time by offering them a selection of exclusive rewards. Veteran Rewards will celebrate subscription milestones achieved by individual players. If you are a former player any active time you have accrued will contribute towards your veteran rewards if/when you reactivate your account. The program will give players a choice of exclusive in-game items at significant subscription milestones. The identified milestones that will be celebrated as part of the program are very three months currently up to the 36 month mark. Players will get one choice per milestone per account. To read more about Veteran rewards click here .
FanFest/Correspondent Feedback Changes

Based upon feedback from the Correspondents and Fan Fest attendees the Entertainer profession will receive a new music and dance icon as well as 6 new entertainer abilities. Along with other requested changes that are listed below, read on for more details.

Profession: Entertainer

Added a New Dance - Bunduki (an interpretive dance from the planet on which the Teras Kasi fighting style originated)
Added a New Song - Swing
Add new particles to the old healing branch
New dance particles:
Center Stage
Color Swirl
Dance Floor
New music particles:
Featured Solo
Laser Show
Fire Jet 2
Exotic flourishes now function properly.
Entertainer's and elite professions' skill branches have been reworked to accommodate these changes.
Added NEW dance props to old healing branch
Staff
Sword
Sparkler
Glowstick
Torch
Ribbon
Double Ribbon
Mystical Ribbon
Double Mystical Ribbon
Sparkle Ribbon
Double Sparkle Ribbon
Also, at novice dancer or higher, dancers can dual wield props.



Other Correspondent and Fan Fest changes include:

Dying in space no longer adds wounds
You can now group with your droids in space
Group members no longer add to a Jedi's visibility
Rifleman cover is no longer affected by group mates
It is no longer possible to inadvertently pay double XP for learning a new skill
General

All mission terminal missions will auto decay from your Datapad after 3 days (Destroy missions, Bounty missions, etc)
Battle Fatigue is no longer acquired and entertainers can no longer heal it.
Profession: Image Designer

Image Designers will no longer see other players avatars in the user interface as swimming
Profession: Bounty Hunter

NPC Bounty missions will now work properly. The Mark will be of appropriate difficulty based on the difficulty of the mission
Moved Player Bounty Hunting to the Master Bounty Hunter skill Box
Jedi missions are only created for online Jedi, the Jedi may go offline after the mission is created
Jedi missions display Faction instead of Jedi name
Jedi missions all display a payout of a random number between 45000 - 52000 credits on the terminal but may pay a bonus amount based on level and time since the Jedi was last killed
Seeker droids will now return the name of the Target
Changed the name of the "imperial probot base" Bounty Hunter droid to “Imperial probot”
Profession: Scout

The Phecnacine Dart will no longer cause creatures AI to turn off
Single target state reduction traps should no longer grant experience when thrown at a creature already affected by that type of grenade.
Experience granted for trap throwing should no longer depend on the throwers combat level versus the creature's level.
Profession: Pilots

Pilots that drop a pilot profession will no longer lose an extra 10% experience if they have an inspiration buff.
Profession: Jedi

Force cloak and cover break as intended when the player is not in a group or non-group members breach the area.
Adjusted ratio of Sith Shadow Pirates to Outlaws spawned in phase 4 of the Force Sensitive Village , to make the Village Assault (Ranged Speed / Melee Defense) quest easier to complete
Players that are using the ability "force cloaked" will no longer be targetable
Jedi heals will no longer cost Force and Mind if the target does not require healing
Changes to Phase 4 of Captain Sarguillo's Quest: Force Village

Players can now take part in the Captain's phase 4 quests even if they have taken the quest in a previous attempt to complete the Phase 4 quests.
Improved quest journal conversation text.
Added animations to accompany certain dialog lines.
Added quest reward item for Melee Defense quest.
Combat

Added a debuff which is applied when you have been Dazed to prevent the instant reapplication of Daze
Player Structures

When a house is transferred the Admin lists will no longer clear.
UI

Removed the version number from the splash screen. If you would like to retrieve the version number, press CTRL+SHIFT+G in game.
Master Badges will now be granted during the token respec period
Targeting a player will no longer cause their ham bar and name to cover the targeted players face.
The Network Status window will now display properly. To open the network status window you can hit Ctrl + Shift + G
Emote animations will now show properly when utilizing them
The Jedi force bar will now show properly on the HAM bar
Galactic Civil War (GCW)

Reduce Temporary Enemy Flag (TEF) timer to 2.5 minutes.
Combat between a bounty hunter and a Jedi for which the bounty hunter has a bounty mission will result in a "bounty hunter TEF". No other TEF (such as factional TEF, for example) is applied. The "bounty hunter TEF" will prevent both the bounty hunter and Jedi from entering player structures, and will eject the player from a player structure if the TEF is received while the player is in the player structure.
Guild war PVP no longer results in a TEF, unless the combatants are a bounty hunter and a Jedi for which the bounty hunter has a bounty mission, in which case it will result in a "bounty hunter TEF".
Opposing factional TEF and "bounty hunter TEF" are applied to both combatants as soon as any of the combatants attacks.
Quests / Loot

Mellichae now drops his cyborg arm as loot.
Mellichae and Daktar Bloodmoon now drop more appropriate loot.
NPC Jedi can now drop medpacks, clothing, and pistols as loot.
Kashyyyk

Players can now enter into the Falls Cave in the Dead Forest on Kashyyyk.
AI

Fixed an error case where AI would emit a "?" over its head when a non-threat approached.
Pets: If a pet attacks a mob, the mob will now also be aggressive to the pet's master. So if you send a pet on a mob, and the pet dies, the mob will attack you. If you send your pet to attack a lair, mobs from the lair will additionally attack you.
Pets: Pets now inherit the same aggro radius reduction as their master. Previously a lvl 80 player with a lvl 40 pet could possibly have an AI aggro the pet, but not the player. Now the pet has the same aggro radius as the player.
Pets: A pet can no longer pull a mob without getting within the aggro radius of or attacking a mob. Previously just telling a pet to attack a mob initiated the pet and the mob in combat instantly.
Pets: A pet no longer stops attacking a lair (or any immobile AI) after a short period of time. They will continue to attack as ordered.
Pets: Pets no longer lose their ranged weapons on occasion when incapacitated.
New Player Tutorial

Moved the tutorial toggle to a more obvious place in the character creation screens.
Misc

Player event actors will not speak their programmed text. This interim fix is due to abuse of the system and the event actor will be removed entirely in an upcoming change for this publish cycle.
Players will no longer have to kill NPC's twice when they die with a Flamethrower DoT on them
Resource containers for sale on vendors or on commodities terminals will retain the name of the resource and the quantity from their description.
Lairs HAM bars will now show properly

haxxjoo

Has patch 20 balanced the game yet?

I see a lot of balance issues in the notes.  Have they achived a balance between professions yet?

zoey121

no there isn't a balance nor will there ever be with a game that allows for 1 alpha class

and yes many of the speicals in other classes are still currently broken............

but lack of balance could be said for any mmorpg out there so it goes

Elnator

Actually the game is very balanced, even Jedi are becoming steadily more balanced with the rest of the professions, especially in large scale PVP.

Jedi are still overpowered, don't get me wrong, but not to the extent they were pre-CU.

Zoey, try actually playing the game before commenting would ya?

PVE: Game is balanced, even for Jedi.
Dueling PVP: Game is balanced with the exception of Jedi
Small Scale PVP: Jedi are a little over powered.
Large Scale PVP: Game is balanced, even for Jedi. Matter of fact in Large Scale PVP most Jedi use rifles
Space: Balanced

There are a FEW specials that are broken. Most have been fixed. Commando still lacks specials of any kind, which is odd.

Scaris

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Originally posted by Elnator
Actually the game is very balanced, even Jedi are becoming steadily more balanced with the rest of the professions, especially in large scale PVP.Jedi are still overpowered, don't get me wrong, but not to the extent they were pre-CU.Zoey, try actually playing the game before commenting would ya?PVE: Game is balanced, even for Jedi.
Dueling PVP: Game is balanced with the exception of Jedi
Small Scale PVP: Jedi are a little over powered.
Large Scale PVP: Game is balanced, even for Jedi. Matter of fact in Large Scale PVP most Jedi use rifles
Space: Balanced
There are a FEW specials that are broken. Most have been fixed. Commando still lacks specials of any kind, which is odd.

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Their guns are supposed to be their specials with the effects the weapons give. Thats why they have no specials. Unfortuntely their weapons are underpowered and they don't have anything else going for them other then assault armor.

Scaris

I'm skerd. I hate when they do big patches, it means a week of bad bugs because of their sub par testing enviroment and habits.

zoey121

Elnator, would play but the servers are down atm due to patch

Wepps

Crowd control is king when stealth isn't looking...

In this game it's state changes. The player that can apply the most state changes wins, and that means who has the cheapest state changes...the Smuggler. Combined with Pistoleer, they are some of the toughest hombres in the galaxy. It was also in the development team's mind to give Smuggler the most powerful ranged attack in the game as well.

Combat Upgrade balanced some of this. Sorta. Nimnoga.

Combat Medic is still extremely tough. In fact, I think the name of the entire profession should be changed to something more appropriate. 'Medic' has little to do with them.

The Bounty Hunter knockdowns are still only good for 1 hit, maybe, if you are lucky and the target doesn't bounce right back before you get the shot off. Almost seems a huge waste of a lot of action. But Bounty Hunters have a major drawback, they MUST be balanced against whining Jedi, therefore they will never be all they could be.

Commando is a waste entirely. In fact, in ALL of Gorath server not only could I find no Commandos at all, anywhere in the galaxy, but neither could I find their weapons. For all intents and purposes, they ceased to exist as of the Combat Upgrade.

Creature Handlers are good for 2 things, pet pulls at nest hunts, and mounts. Aside from that...

Droids are still non-existent in the universe. Their use is so limited they aren't really worth the parts. They can be discounted as merely an art addition with little content still.

Carbines still use too much action to fire.

Food is better and cheaper than spice.

The removal of Battle Fatigue has me puzzled.

I can't find a Doctor.

And why the hell is Kaadara STILL the most laggy city in SWG? Even more-so than Mos Eisley?

As to Zoey, balance never seems to be achieved because mathematical balance can only be the beginning of the story not the end. This team relies too heavily upon it. They overestimate newbie attacks and totally underestimate the power of specials that change the target's state or bring Crowd Control to the picture.

They love monitoring the metrics, but they fail to impress when it comes to accurately translating them into a fact. For example, when the game was first released, the monitor watchers at SOE noticed that TONS of people were herding over to the Tusken Fort on Tatooine. Lots of tough Tuskens, coupled with lots of people, quickly turned the area into a booming Entertainment and Medical town as Cantinas and Campsites cropped up as far as the eye could see.

Big Brother saw the metrics, and instead of determining that...the people were having fun and being rewarded, they instead nerfed the Tusken Fort. FOUR TIMES - until it wasn't worth going there anymore.

The problem with this is that it was the opposite of what they should have done. In the absense of any real content, the only fun content at those levels was removed. Very foolish, par for the course. They should have applied the concept of the Tusken Fort, and everything the players were seeking there, to MANY locations in the universe, so people had more options when seeking fun content.

So they might be watching, but I don't see the point of all that Metric Camping unless they can at the very least properly decypher what the results MEAN.

Another was the winning argument of the people I was killing at the end of the first 10 days as a Novice Bounty Hunter. They were crying becuase I would knock them down and really hit them hard. But they failed to understand that, unlike them who had a total of 4 boxes of skills to get to Novice Pistoleer, (I think it's 8 now), I had to be a full Master Scout and Master Marksman backing up that novice box. (this too has changed)

Given that I had expended 160 skill just to achieve that Novice box, I should have been more powerful, but they lost sight of that fact and nerfed Bounty Hunters too hard.

The interpretations of all the numbers seem to be beyond these guys. After 2 years, the game is still far from having good content, but it is a lot better than it was at release. At least now you are fully aware of what your PURPOSE is in the scheme of things.

Speaking of that, I was under the impression that Smugglers would actually be Smuggling this patch?

daeandor

I would say the game is only moderately balanced.  Jedi are losing and gaining powers continuously so it is really difficult to tell if they are getting closer to balance or not.  I am not sure that having Jedi be perfectly balanced with the rest of the professions is necessarily the best thing anyway.  The thing about the CU is the ability to dabble much more significantly than previously.  This allows you to take a profession you like but is weak in some areas and then make that profession "balanced" by adding other professions.  Commando is a perfect example.  Commando is extremely weak right now unless it is paired with another state-inducing class and then it becomes extremely powerful from a balance perspective.  I also feel that at this point in the game healing and foods are unbalancing the game.  As it stands right now a novice medic with a medical droid and a couple +healing tapes results in nearly equivalent single heals to Master Doc and Combat Medic.  This allows professions to be much more combat focused that before while retaining a significant ability to heal.  Foods and drinks then can make up any statistical difference between opponents in PvP resulting in the absolute need for a consumable.  People who PvP have just turned their old dancer/musician buffbots into doctor buffbots and so we now have an army of doctors afk and unavailable to actually heal people. 

Space is a whole nother story in itself.  Although it may be "balanced", the ability to destroy any PC controlled ship within 5 shots is far from fun.

The low end PvE game is far from balanced.  I would say this pretty much stems from the inability to wear armor, but essentially PvE between level 15 and 54 is a group only event unless you want a lesson in frustration.  This issue does not come up much because of the Dantooine and Lok grinding groups that invite lowbies into their midst, but if everyone soloed to Mastery like we used to there would be a lot of people leaving the game.

The list goes on and on, and overall I think that things have gotten better but they are far from perfect.  Balance is getting closer, but many bugs in the game itself still exist in large numbers.  Exploits run rampant for easy xp and cash etc.  I am still enjoying the game and have never seen a need to post an "end of XXX", because the game is still evolving and being fixed at a respectable rate IMO.

Elnator

Actually Creature Handlers are very well balanced both for PVE and PVP. One of the members of my guild is MBH / MCH and can stand up to Jedi pretty well because her pet (Mufasa, god I love that cat!) is so damn effective against Jedi and non-jedi alike.

CH's are only as good as the pets they choose to tame. She chooses pets that have useful special abilities and backs them up with her own damage.

It's also really scary when she wips out her CL70 Kimogilla and sicc's it on critters, players, etc.

Don't even try to say CH is underpowered or useless. It's not. Its a very effective profession since the CU. Pre-CU I agree, with God Buffs CH were useless. Now they are very useful because their pets aren't irrelevant.

As to Commando: They could be fixed by SOE just increasing the damage on all Commando weapons by 35%. Bringing their top damage on par with other weapons. I still say that a Commando/Pistoleer/Smuggler is one of the best templates around for PVE and Group PVP.

Wepps

There seem to be a few good things in this patch.

I wish SOE would get it in their heads that Entertainer content, like any other profession, isn't found in the particle effects but in the profession itself, in its purpose.

The Bunduki dance sounds neat though, as does Dual-wielding props at novice.

No wounds in space. THAT'S BETTER.

Group members don't add to Jedi visibility.

Rifleman cover no longer effected by group members.

And fixes to Bounty Hunter? Who'd have thought it?!?

NPC bounties with correct combat level, this was my major complaint with my CL22 Trando BH getting nothing but 56-58 CL marks.

Jedi Hunting is finally in the Master Box of Bounty Hunter.

And mostly I think, no more mobile homes to hide in. Jed Necks reported as 'disappointed'.

Wheezal

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Originally posted by Wepps

Crowd control is king when stealth isn't looking...
In this game it's state changes. The player that can apply the most state changes wins, and that means who has the cheapest state changes...the Smuggler. Combined with Pistoleer, they are some of the toughest hombres in the galaxy. It was also in the development team's mind to give Smuggler the most powerful ranged attack in the game as well.
Commando is a waste entirely. Speaking of that, I was under the impression that Smugglers would actually be Smuggling this patch?

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*flexes his massive MSmuggler/MPistoleer muscles!!!

For the record, we've always had the most powerful ranged attack, Last Ditch had the highest Damage multiplier pre-CU, and now Reckless Shot and Last Ditch makes up for the change to LD.  Trust us, we'd happily trade it all in to smuggle.

Smuggling revamo is still a ways off...we've gotten zero word in teh last few WEEKS concerning what's gunna happen to our profression.

As for Commando, with Smuggler it's pretty cool.  One shot with a lightning beam or flame thrower with Concussion shot and ya got a whole bunch of Rooted/Dazed mobs to play with.  If they fix AoE damage, then specials like Reckless Shot and Last Ditch will get really entertaining.

Wheezal

eek...double post!!

 

umm..look at the monkey!!

Wepps

Sounds neat Wheezal, I never thought of adding Commando to Smuggler lol.

Still it seems to me that Pistoleer is the perfect combo, and the most useful. It depends on what you are doing though. I might have to try that hehe, it sounds like fun.

Commando though is just as screwed up as Smuggler if not more-so. Commando specials and especially their weapons are too bummed up to even be effective in combat with few exceptions. Smuggler/Pistoleer has always been very effective in combat, but Smuggler has no content. Even slicing and spices now are...questionable content.

I'd rather have any kind of food before combat than a spice, there are too many drawbacks to spices.

I started testing spices with my Smuggler yesterday, and determined there is hardly any way for me to compete with a Chef now in that regard lol.

"Oh man, pass me that quiche...pppfFfFfFfFtTTTTtttTtTT coughCOUGHcoughCOUGH!"

No matter what they do though, the game will never be Star Wars until the Smuggler smuggles. And that development thinking SHOULD be applied to ALL the professions. Every one should have Smuggler/Bounty Hunter content as described. This is where content is located. If you have to go LOOK for content, then the design is questionable. Content should reside in the characters and their professions. This will always hold true.

Wheezal

yeah, pistoleer/smuggler gives ya a host of nice crowd control moves.  i wouldn't mind a knock down, but let the carbineers have something.

commando weapons will be much more valuable once they fix that d@mn AoE bug.  they are so close too, AoE damage works in the morning after a server reset, but stops working after a couple of hours, so..you know the devs are going crazy trying to find where things go wrong.

as for spices, there's no reason not to have at least one of the high ends on ya.  sure you can scarf down chef foods for great effect.  but then you can toss some pixie or gold or blue on top of that.  15 minutes with only a 30 second downer, then rinse and repeat.  it's all the other spices that are lame, there's too much redundency...reudenducy..they all do the same thing.  i sell plenty of Pixie these days, it's so cheap and easy to make and use that it's just naturally an easy selling product.

Elnator

[quote]Originally posted by Wheezal
[b]yeah, pistoleer/smuggler gives ya a host of nice crowd control moves. i wouldn't mind a knock down, but let the carbineers have something.
commando weapons will be much more valuable once they fix that [email=d@mn] AoE bug. they are so close too, AoE damage works in the morning after a server reset, but stops working after a couple of hours, so..you know the devs are going crazy trying to find where things go wrong.
as for spices, there's no reason not to have at least one of the high ends on ya. sure you can scarf down chef foods for great effect. but then you can toss some pixie or gold or blue on top of that. 15 minutes with only a 30 second downer, then rinse and repeat. it's all the other spices that are lame, there's too much redundency...reudenducy..they all do the same thing. i sell plenty of Pixie these days, it's so cheap and easy to make and use that it's just naturally an easy selling product.[/b][/quote]

I would almost submit that once AOE dammage is fixed the Commando profession will be one of the best to stack another ranged prof (or smuggler) with.

Just think of getting down to a sliver of health then unleashing last ditch on a group of mobs you've been spamming with either just standard AE attacks or whatever. You could theoretically solo a lair with that combo.

Wheezal

i can already tell you, without hesitation, the value of lightning beam/rocket launcher with concussion shot. 

 

but i am DROOLING at the idea of a plasma flame thrower or proton carbine Last Ditch.  i figure i'll miss even more then i do with pistols, but the few times it hits....

Erillion

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Originally posted by daeandor

Space is a whole nother story in itself.  Although it may be "balanced", the ability to destroy any PC controlled ship within 5 shots is far from fun.

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Well ... dont get hit then ! Thats what combat flying is all about, you know !

Have fun

Erillion

Elnator

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Originally posted by Erillion
Originally posted by daeandor
Space is a whole nother story in itself. Although it may be "balanced", the ability to destroy any PC controlled ship within 5 shots is far from fun.
Well ... dont get hit then ! Thats what combat flying is all about, you know !
Have fun
Erillion

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Dude, you need to get better shields and Armor first.
Next you need to learn to pay attention to your radar in combat. If you see a red blip coming in from off-radar at high speed towards you you should KNOW that's another player and be ready for them.

PVP in space is not for the meek.

joejccva71

What do you guys think of the publish 20?? Now BH's are having a hard time hunting jedi. Alot of jedi are hanging out on Kash now because the droids don't work there, is what I'm hearing now? What are your thoughts on all this?

Joe

Elnator

Good
It'll get rid of the rash of wannabe BH's and leave the profession to those of us who have a clue what we're doing.

It really hasn't changed anything except that you don't know your victim's name till you send off a seeker.
Oh.. and just a clue If they're on kashyyk it's not hard to figure out that they are there It's not even particularly hard to find them.

daeandor

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Originally posted by Erillion



Originally posted by daeandor

Space is a whole nother story in itself.  Although it may be "balanced", the ability to destroy any PC controlled ship within 5 shots is far from fun.

Well ... dont get hit then ! Thats what combat flying is all about, you know !

Have fun

Erillion

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Shields, armor, and droid commands are what get you to 5 shot instead of 1 shot kills.  Paying attention to red blips on the radar is easy, the space game is not balanced when player weapons take multiple hits to take out NPC ships (who don't use droid programs and special commands) but only a few to take out PC ships.  Heck, it is barely even fun to fight people using T2 weapons as they still destroy ships quite quickly compaired to PvE. Once you start talking about ships that have 2-3 weapons that can do 3.5k damage each, 1 salvo is much more damage than most ships can handle.

I guess if you look at it from the perspective of the different factions and the balance from a profession standpoint, space is balanced.  Otherwise, it is not even close.

Elnator

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Originally posted by daeandor
Originally posted by Erillion
Originally posted by daeandor
Space is a whole nother story in itself. Although it may be "balanced", the ability to destroy any PC controlled ship within 5 shots is far from fun.
Well ... dont get hit then ! Thats what combat flying is all about, you know !
Have fun
Erillion
Shields, armor, and droid commands are what get you to 5 shot instead of 1 shot kills. Paying attention to red blips on the radar is easy, the space game is not balanced when player weapons take multiple hits to take out NPC ships (who don't use droid programs and special commands) but only a few to take out PC ships. Heck, it is barely even fun to fight people using T2 weapons as they still destroy ships quite quickly compaired to PvE. Once you start talking about ships that have 2-3 weapons that can do 3.5k damage each, 1 salvo is much more damage than most ships can handle.
I guess if you look at it from the perspective of the different factions and the balance from a profession standpoint, space is balanced. Otherwise, it is not even close.

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How is it not balanced?
Everyone fights the same PVE game. Every faction can kill enemy PVE content at the same rate.

Everyone fights the same PVP game as well.

Did you ever WATCH the movies? Tie's went down in 1 good hit in that. Not 20. PVP is balanced. A player driven tie can kill me in 6 or 7 hits just like I can kill him in 6 or 7 hits.

Also, if you have good solid shields and good programs you can survive up to 10 hits in a fight. I have. And I have owned many an enemy because I know how, and when, to use my programs to mess their plans up.

Key 1: Don't get hit
Key 2: Know when to use your programs to boost your shields
Key 3: Know how to get a bogey off your ass.

Yes, space PVP is HARD. But it wasn't exactly meant to be easy. I suppose they could tweak it back a bit but how many hits do you think is reasonable? 20? I can rip that off in just a few seconds once I get into the kill spot. 30? 40? 50000? What's 'reasonable' to you?

daeandor

I get the impression that you feel I want PvP toned down.  That is not what I said, if you look back you will find that I say that pvp is balanced, it is pvp to pve that is not balanced.  A concequence of this is that PC vs environment in space heavily favors of the PC throughout most of the content.  Take a T5 ace and put them anywhere in space where there are no other PC's and that player is relatively safe.  In fact they can farm nearly 90% of the PvE content with little to no risk of ever being remotely damaged.

That is imbalance.  It is not nearly as noticable at lower levels, like zero to three, due to inferior equipment, but at T4 and above I really started to see a problem.  When I am in a standard (non-rotw) T4 ship (Rihxyrk), and most T5 targets present absolutely no challenge, what do you call that?  On the ground if you are CL64, you cannot kill a CL80 NPC solo without a major effort.  (for the non-math majors, 4 = 80% of 5, 64 = 80% of 80)

Elnator, if you feel that the PvE space game is balanced with the rest of the game then fine, I will agree to disagree.

Elnator

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Originally posted by daeandor
I get the impression that you feel I want PvP toned down. That is not what I said, if you look back you will find that I say that pvp is balanced, it is pvp to pve that is not balanced. A concequence of this is that PC vs environment in space heavily favors of the PC throughout most of the content. Take a T5 ace and put them anywhere in space where there are no other PC's and that player is relatively safe. In fact they can farm nearly 90% of the PvE content with little to no risk of ever being remotely damaged.
That is imbalance. It is not nearly as noticable at lower levels, like zero to three, due to inferior equipment, but at T4 and above I really started to see a problem. When I am in a standard (non-rotw) T4 ship (Rihxyrk), and most T5 targets present absolutely no challenge, what do you call that? On the ground if you are CL64, you cannot kill a CL80 NPC solo without a major effort. (for the non-math majors, 4 = 80% of 5, 64 = 80% of 80)
Elnator, if you feel that the PvE space game is balanced with the rest of the game then fine, I will agree to disagree.

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Ahh I see you are asking for the PVE content in space to be more challenging! Now I understand.

I agree to an extent but here's the catch:
While you feel that at Tier 4 you are safe in space I know many players who are Tier 4 who have trouble still because their personal skill in space isn't at a level where they do well against Tier 4/5 ships. There's a fine line to walk in the PVE game. Especially when talking about space twitch combat.

What's easy for you or me is hard for someone else. For example look at Wepps complaint about not being able to solo his Tier 2 mission earlier last month... He was very upset that he was forced to group to handle a Tier 2 mission.

Dunno about you but I smoked every mission solo till Master... and knowing what I know now I could probably smoke the master mission solo now, though it'd take some time. But not everyone is that good. Some folks can't handle Tier 4 ships already, if they beefed them up more how many players would wind up frustrated because, for them, space became too difficult?

There's a fine line in twitch combat. If you make it hard enough to challenge the best pilots the guys who aren't that good will get very frustrated. If you make it too easy the best pilots become bored.

Right now they're walking a pretty decent line, imo.... but Kessel could be made riskier without too much trouble, I think.

Wepps

Actually, it's a tier 3 mission. My problem is I'm halfway through tier 3, and have enough experience just from running this mission over and over to be well into tier 4 by now.

The mission is neutral, or Privateer. "Deliver Jabba's gifts to the Empire in Dathomir Space". That's fine, but you are required to dock no less than 4 times initially.

The instant the 1st transport is in range, you get jumped by 4 fighters, equal level.

That's fine too. I can handle them easily, I got a great ship, with the best set of parts and ordnance I could get my hands on. My skill....is more than adequate. I flew Luftwaffe in IL-2 in the Virtual East Front campaign, and was danged good. If you can joystick your way around those conditions, then you will have NO PROBLEM with this engine, trust me.

The problem is, once I kill, or otherwise disable 3 of those 4 ships (in any way I have tested), 4 more show up. If I do nothing...4 more show up. Add to that the random tier 5 aggro.

So, the balance comes from figuring out how many to kill, in the time given, while docking. At least, so I thought.

I've tried it in every way, the last time was when I docked with all 4 transports, but by that time there were 12 equal level fighters on me if I ignored them, or called the pirate trap which added even more of them though level 1s. It just kept them busy for a while.

By the time I have to escort the slow lameass transport out of the system, 4 MORE jump in, that makes 16+. By that time, no matter what you do you cannot defend yourself, so I end up (if lucky) going into full evasion mode, and hyperspacing out to a safe port. I've been lucky twice.

Heck, you even gave me advice to play with my shield strengths while docking, something I can't do at that level, so something is wrong here in this entire discussion.

There is just no way to do this mission solo, and anybody that says so is either...

full of crap...

Or unaware of a change in the content since THEY did the mission.

And no, I haven't gotten past it yet. It's totally unbalanced toward forced grouping.

EDIT: yes I read the manual and even checked the guide. It shows Capacitor to shield shunt at level 1, but for some reason I cannot execute the command. It's useless. Don't ask me why, maybe they changed it again without saying 'may I', all I know is I am not allowed to play with my shields.