Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I think Turbine really missed the ball on this one.
Scaris
Member UncommonPosts: 5,332
From what little I actually do know about DDO because I don't keep up with it much I understand its going to take place in a new realm that wizards of the coast or whoever they are now has created for 3.5 or around the time of 3.5?
If that is the case then I think Turbine and WotC is really blowing it. I as a extreme veteran player that no longer keeps up with the new rules and such because you need a bank loan to do so anymore would be way more pumped about this game coming if say I would get to explore and see in living 3D Forgotten realms or better yet GreyHawk. I think players that don't even play pen and paper anymore would be flocking to this game for the shot at that, and as it stands now, with the new realm I don't see that happening.
I know there are other old school players here besides me, do you think I am crazy or do you agree with me?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Comments
I would prefer a forgotten realms setting or even greyhawk to the new eberon setting, but as eberon is now the new oficial setting for D&D, i dont see WoTC agreeing to a GH or FR setting.
The main selling point for eberon is that the continent where the game is set is virtualy empty in terms of source books and content, only the main continent in eberon has been touched by the books leaving the rest of the world pretty much unexplored, so Turbine would have a free hand within reason to make their own way.
But as i stated before, i think the biggest problem in the game is the lack of crafting skills and the aproach they are taking toards the classes, mainly the lack of the druid, monk and prestige classes, i would prefer to wait 6 more months so they could implement those into the game then see the game release in a few months without them.
Nother anoyence i see in this game is the abuse of instanced areas, only one majo quest hub (storm reach) and the lack of freeplay zones outside of the city, i think this one city aproach is the worse thing they could have done, i dont think it worked that well with eq2 and i dont think it will work with D&DO.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Though I can appreciate that people can enjoy crafting, I feel that is one of those things that is dependant on individual tastes.
As I've stated before... If I never see crafting ever again in a video again I would be happy. Nothing is more boring to me then scouring every single inch of land so you can harvest a mushroom for your collection of mushrooms for a potion.
Are we adventurers or are we gardeners?
As far as the world goes... I think you are correct. Ebberon is not "fleshed out" and therefore there is more they can do with it.
However, when I played we based it in our own world. Though I had every single D&D book imaginable (hmmmm... and still do I believe!?!?!!? I think they are packed away somewhere!) we usually created our own world which was more fun.
I can only imagine they want to do the same.
As far as the instancing goes. I can understand it. Though I have tried GW and love many aspects of it, it does tend to be dependent on who you meet in the towns rather than partying with people in the field and getting to know them that way.
But with the instanced content they will be able to really make interesting adventures. I always thought the idea of camping a dragon (waiting in line) or a spawn was anti D&D. Who wants to wait in line to be a hero.
"next"
"next"
etc....
I think we will have to have a wait and see attitutude. I imagine we all will find it fun. Whether or not it comes up to the expectations of veteran online players or D&D players is another thing. But in the end it is a realization of a pen and paper game. Like turning a book into a movie. You sometimes have to change things to make the change of medium.
with the Prestige classes... they will come. I bet that they have to put so much work into the quests that they don't have enough time to make them well at launch. I feel that is fair. Remember... they are probably putting in overtime anyways... they have lives too I'm sure.
I have no problem cutting them a break.. especially since they know there is already a very vocal and expectant fanbase so they want to be extra careful with everything.
Look at the Lord of the rings movies. So many people were saying that not including Tom Bombadil or adding more of Liv Tyler (fleshing out her role) would make the movies suck. But in the end.. with all their flaws... they are still very very good movies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I do not agree! I think you need to read up more before trying to make a point.
Nother anoyence i see in this game is the abuse of instanced areas, only one majo quest hub (storm reach) and the lack of freeplay zones outside of the city, i think this one city aproach is the worse thing they could have done, i dont think it worked that well with eq2 and i dont think it will work with D&DO.
They have stated on numerous times that there are towns and villages outside the city of storm reach.
Think outside the box!
Read up on what exactly? It might help if you explain what exactly I should be reading up on.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Thank you Fadeus... I was wondering the same thing.
Ok.. I read up... not sure what your point is.
And the main hub thing is very much like a guild wars thing. It does work... however.. I do think it has its draw backs.
As far as the prestige classes and waiting 6 months, I don't think that it works that way. They need to start making money back on their investment... you dont' need the prestige classes to have D&D. After all... D&D lasted quite some time before prestige classes ever entered the picture.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, personaly i dont apreciate the main hub aproach they are implementing, tho as was pointed out earlier, there will be villages outside storm reach, just hope they are not just generic places and they do have some history, lore behind them.
Talking bout prestige classes, well, im not so angry because they were left out, as you pointed D&D did pretty well without them, but i will misse my dragon disciple
But the fact that they left out monks and druids, man that was harsh, i love playing a monk in D&D, they are prolly the most powerfull class in the ruleset, wich i think would imbalance the game somewhat, but there are ways around that without having to remove the class completly, druids are a different question, their shape shifting abilities mean they can shapechange into any creature in the wild, that would be hell on programers, modelers to work around, but i think it could be feasable to implement a set number of animal forms and expand upon them at a later time after launch.
The heavy use of instanced areas will permit more adventures to be implemented in the game, but it will also take away from one of the most important aspects of D&D, the journey and exploration and i think that in the long run the heavy use of instances will take away from the D&D feeling of the game.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Eberron is worth a try, and guess what, it is FREE. I mean, I can try Eberron for no additionnal fees then if the game would be set in FR or Mystara. (I didnt buy the Norrath sourcebook when I was playing EQ, wont buy the Eberron sourcebook either, and unless they highly impress me, I will not buy it, never buy Ravenloft, Dark Sun or Birthright myself so...)
As a veteran, I did try all the worlds TSR bring out, and I was thinking, nah I wont buy all that crap about Eberron...but as part of a MMORPG? Sure, why not!
I didnt buy the new rules books. I didnt buy the new setting. I did play ToEE and LG, so this is where I get my latest update on their rules. I certainly dont mind trying another computer game.
Again, I dont understand Fade-us, but nothing new there...I guess if you give any 2 choices, it is almost a proven fact that we will both pick the choice the other didnt!
Last time WotC did something, it was Heroes of Might and Magic IV, and they mess it awfully, it was the worst thing ever to happen to something I cheerish...I mean, they could have name it Heroes of MagictheGathering at the least, I would not have been so disappointed.
The Lead Designer of Turbine sound pretty much clueless about D&D, but we will see...the product may still be nice.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I haven't played PnP D&D since AD&D 2nd edition, and I don't really have an interest in any rule sets that have come out since then. I played in Dragonlance, FR, Ravenloft, Greyhawk, and even tried Dark Sun briefly.
I completely understand the reasons behind WoTC's decisions, but I find myself losing the interest I had when I first heard of this game. Greyhawk is my favorite D&D setting, but I know it isn't as commercially viable as what WoTC has chosen.
I think the pre-WoTC PnP players like myself might need to wait for another release for that DnD experience. I do like some of what DDO will have to offer, but in my opinion it is just another attempt that will fall short.
To me atleast, without building the actual lands I grew up on which is greyhawk and forgotten realms it will be just another fantasy MMO to me. That SHOULD be one of the defining differences with DDO over regular cookie cutter EQ clones. The fact that its taking all that wonderful stuff that has been documented over the years and making it live and breath. This game gets less and less inspiring for me the more I learn about it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
The choice in campaign setting is pretty much a WotC thing, as they have chosen Ebberron as their new flagship game world, and are wanting to pimp it as much as possible. Probably another reason they did this is because, as far as computer D&D rpgs go, the Forgotten Realms has pretty much been beaten to death. Ever since the original Baldur's Gate, I can't think of any D&D crpg besides Temple of Elemental Evil that hasn't been set in the Forgotten Realms (heck, even most of the SSI gold box games took place in the FR).
Now, even though I find the choice of setting a bit refreshing, I think there are a slew of other problems this game is going to have that could hurt it worse.
1. Shallow Gameplay: Here's hoping the dungeons will be pretty varied and exciting, because if it's all you will be doing, the game could get boring fast.
2. Arcade-like qualities: One of the things that really turned me off was something that was mentioned in the Q&A on this site. The devs stated that you will be able to replay dungeons with different difficulty levels. What this tells me is that this is how they plan on getting by content-wise for a while. Played through all the dungeons? Well, go though them again at higher difficulties! Repeating dungeons over and over is not my idea of a good time.
3. Where's Ebberron?: Turbine keeps taking out more and more things from the D&D experience. No druids till later, no monks till later, heck, even the vast majority of races and unique character traits that make Ebberron different than the other settings aren't even included in the game. What really got to me was that Prestige Classes won't even make it in for release. Now, I understand these things will most likely come later down the road, but if you're going to use a brand new setting, at least try to take advantage of it.
Well, my rant is off for now. In short, I was pretty psyched about this game for the longest time, being a huge D&D fan, but lately some of the things I've read have made me very skeptical. As a side note, I DO think that many of the actual rules implementations (translating the pnp rules to an MMO, that is) they are using in the game will work pretty well--I'm just not so sure about the overall game design.
Greyhawk has hardly ever been touched for computer based games. And would be an excellent realm to use for this. At one point d&d was heading back to Greyhawk, then all the sudden they did a 360 on it.
This honestly doesn't look, smell, or feel like good ole d&d to me. I remember when Neverwinter nights was supposed to acheive all this and give people a true online D&D gaming experience. It turned D&D into another diablo hack and slash fest with some script here and there. I am very skeptical of this doing any better then just being another fantasy based mmo. Time will tell, I am skeptical of any new game anymore though.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
If you go to WotC website there is d20 system you can dl the books for free. They are just text but can get all the info you need. You should read up on the new rules they just make more sense compared to 2nd addition rules. There is no going forwards then backwards, - number and + numbers it is all straight forward and just make sense.
As for Ebbron (or how ever it is spell) I really don't know anything about the world never played any campaigns there. But that is the point. With so much resources to pull information from it would take Turbine decades to get Forgotten Realms, Grey Hawk, Dragonlance, etc. correct.
Instances while I'm not 100% in agreement I can understand their logic. They want to make DDO feel like a campaign with your friends. How often do you run into another group of pc in a campaign? It may feel like a very empty world like GW but I'm willing to give it a try. They do have multiple player non grouped instances so if people are not to happy with the group instances they will probably add more of them.
I don't think your crazy just need to open your mind to change a little. 15+ years here btw.
As for Ebbron (or how ever it is spell) I really don't know anything about the world never played any campaigns there. But that is the point. With so much resources to pull information from it would take Turbine decades to get Forgotten Realms, Grey Hawk, Dragonlance, etc. correct.
Instances while I'm not 100% in agreement I can understand their logic. They want to make DDO feel like a campaign with your friends. How often do you run into another group of pc in a campaign? It may feel like a very empty world like GW but I'm willing to give it a try. They do have multiple player non grouped instances so if people are not to happy with the group instances they will probably add more of them.
I don't think your crazy just need to open your mind to change a little. 15+ years here btw.
Not sure why I want want to read up on the new ruleset, that wasn't really a highlight to my reasons why I don't like what they are doing. I know the v3 ruleset and thats close enough.
And taking forever to an already fleshed out world like greyhawk only insures plenty of expansions with alot of content. The arguement that its too much only means I am going to get a game thats bearer then it should be, and its not what I want. Until its out I can only guess at how I am gonna feel about it, however right now all I can say is I am hardly as motivated to do any research on it or watch for it to come out when its not going to be very familiar to me for in game content or geography.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the game is gonne be a failure. What I am saying though is I feel its like MEO. Instead of trying to gear the game towards the book fans I feel they are going for the younger generation of movie fans. With this I think they are going for the fans of d&d that are post 2nd edition.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I wish the Planescape Campaing was more advetised and used, its mainly been a niche pnp source with little use on computers, except for the great planescape torment. Image Sigil beeing the main city of a mmorpg, serving as a quest hub, would be perfect with all those portals leading to fifferent worlds.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Beside ToEE, I will admit that I dont remember any Greyhawk product on the computer. Was Savage Frontier in FR or Greyhawk? And what about Eye of the Beholder? You can always play the Living Greyhawk stuff, but not on computers.
Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Hollow Worlds, Mystara, Planescape & Birthright where all left beside at least as much or more then Greyhawk, they all have less computer games then Greyhawk. So basically, Greyhawk cant complain, only FR and DL got more computer attention then it. Eberron will only have 1 computer product, not that a MMORPG can be compare with the others products, but still...
Personnally I would have enjoy more Mystara stuff, but again I wont complain, a new world to discover! And who know, maybe we will see the others worlds in expensions, it is merely 1 spell away.
PS: If you do a 360, you still go in the same direction.
PPS: If I was in Turbine place, I would have done the impossible to work with Ravenloft, from a creative point of view.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
With an almost exclusive focus on instanced dungeon crawling, doesn't this sound like LDoN without the rest of EQ? So what if you can do the same dungeons at different difficulties? Dungeons were quite a small part in my PnP playing days. We were likely to have more fun handling random wilderness encounters than something we were probably expecting in a dungeon.
One of my favorite PnP encounters was when our group was traveling to a town that was having some trouble with disgruntled gnomish miners. We were commisioned to go put the gnomes back to work, and one of the random encounters along the way was with a few giant spiders. We were almost to the town when they jumped us. My chaotic neutral dwarf went to work on the legs of one of the spiders with his axe, but he failed to think through his actions (being chaotic neutral and all...). He hacked off several of the legs, which brought the spider down on top of him. The others were busy with spiders of their own, so he had to carve his way out to safety from within the spider. When the battle was over, my dwarf alone was covered in spider goo, but being a crazy stubborn dwarf, he refused to admit that it bothered him. We didn't reach the town until the middle of the next day, and when we did, the first thing we saw was a small body of water which all the town's women were washing their laundry in. My dwarf charged for the water and cannon-balled in, splashing all the women with water and dried spider goo. We had half the town enraged at us without having said a word to anyone....and the paladin had to do the sweet-talking once again...
When a MMO is detailed enough to allow us to do crap like this and see it happen on screen, that's when I'll be satisfied. Maybe my expectations or standards are too high, but I don't care. This is why PnP playing is better than CRPG and will be for some time. This is why I can't be satisfied with dungeon-crawling hack and slash. It's just not ROLE-PLAYING.
ToEE was the only Greyhawk I beleive.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
ac1 for the first 50 levels was fun after that you came to realize it was a mindless monster smasher
ac2 no differance
and this one DDO seems to be right up there with the other 2 smash monsters to a new dice roll of D&D 3.5
I cant see myself wasting away in turbineville on another monster smasher with no real lore or
story no trades no land mass to speak of and to make things worse forget about PVP while the jury is still out on this one the odds of it being a well made game are 2:1 against it and climbing
I've kind of been keeping up with the whole D&D bandwagon and i agree that they might be over stating the lure of the D&D title with regards to pulling in crowds of players.
I played starwars galaxies and left feeling let down by the moving goal posts regarding becoming a Jedi and the constant mind numbing grinding of professions. I also played Daoc and although the game became quickly dated the feel of a community was more evident that swg.
I think, hope that Turbine are aiming for a game where you interact without endless skill and profession grinding.
As for me i'm going to give D&D a go regardless.
Matt..
Man, I'm so glad they aren't bringing back old worlds. How much fun would that be? Sure it'd be cool for a few mins, but what's the point? We've played those worlds. Let's play new worlds.
That's just story/lore anyways. Most of the dungeons I played were built by the DM and not off the shelf items. The worlds we played in were usually made up by the DMs as well, so I could really care less which "World" they base the game in.
It's the game mechanics I care about. The rules, the classes, races, and multiclass opportunities.
I can't wait for DDO. Sounds like the game is gonna be fun, and I like what the designers have done so far, and the path they are going with the rules.
I know many have said this but I think it is worth repeating. The good thing about them using Eberron is that no one has a predisposed opinion or expectation (sure some do) but can you imagine trying to develop something that people have played in there head 1,000 times... it would be like reading a book and then watching the movie... the movie never compares.
I just hope it is everything I expect it to be... but to each their own and even if it isn't there is no way that it can be as bad as Lineage 2.
Why?
I don't think they dropped the ball...
Eberron is a great place to run a MMORPG, it's got an entire continent, which is laregly unexplored ruins...How much more D&D can you get?
The only other game setting I would have liked to see would have been Waterdeep...Between, Skullport, The extensive sewer system, city of the dead, Undermountain and the city itself, it would have made an EXCELLENT setting, would never have had to leave the city in actuality, but keep in mind How massive that city is, The programming would have been insane, and to have the proper feel for such a metropolis, there would have to be very smart NPCs wandering, buying, sekking, picking pockets, talking, not like SWG, more of them, smarter, more interactive....
Just my 2 cents, don't buy the book, go to Border's or some other bookstore and read up on it if you're unfamiliar, it's really a great campaign location....I can't wait!!!
PS. I am old-school gamer, Started playing in 1983 at the age of twelve...
It is EXACTLY because they don't want to do a ususal fantasy MMOrpg that they are using Eberron.
Frankly, while i appreciate FG a lot, it IS a classical tolkienesque fantasy world. It is one of the first, yes, but pretty standard.
Eberron, on the other hand, is not exactly your run-of-the mill Fantasy setting. it has air ships, technology, strange wars and an intriguing history. In addition, WoTC granted game's publishers a great freedom by "donating" a continent to them.
So they have huge amount of freedom in creating it, not only with DDO but also Dragonshard, the RTS D&D game, will be set in the same continent.
in addition, who said no prestige classes? did i lost something?
Nik Davidson
No list just yet, but there will be prestige classes. Every time WotC publishes something, they come up with a half-dozen new prestige classes, so we've got a ton to pick from.
that's directly from DDO Dev collection of answers on their forums.
As for monks and druids being out... i am at loss... Monks have nothing special for them (from a programming point), especially considering two-weapon fighting is in and that where it could have been tricky for starting monks... As for druids, while it is true they can shapechange, so can a wizard with the appropriate spell, should we consider all shapechanging spells not available in DDO?
Anofalye, Heros of might and magic IV done by wizards of the coast? what? my copy says "3DO" here and i do not see any similarities between this and MTG, care to explain?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"