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If Turbine simply revamped Asherons Call with 2005 Graphics and advertised....
Zaxx99
Member Posts: 1,761
Asheron's Call.
An mmo that has a heart and a soul.
A world that is truly fun to explore.
So many dungeons.
So much to do.
So many magic spells to aquire.
So much cool armor and weapons to seek out.
A PvP world that is truly PvP. Relentless.
A skill and level system that constantly rewards you for your work.
Constant experience earned that you can use to raise any of your skills you desire at any time to make your avatar truly unique.
A social system and allegiance system that rewards players for aquiring players to work hard underneath them by passing a portion of their earned experience up. This system also rewards good patrons (the person you sign under) with hard working players to help you gain levels by passing exp up to you.
Raids and allegiance wars that make your palms sweat on Darktide, the PvP server.
Monthly patches that constantly upgrade and add to the depth of this already deepest content mmo available today.
A death system that punishes you for dying... the way it should be. Death should have a price.
One of the most rewarding crafting systems of any mmo that allows you to make far superior weapons and armor, and each item made is highly valued due to the time and care involved.
Some of the most devoted fans of any mmo are those who have played Asherons Call for years on end, and still log in faithfully. There is a reason for such loyalty.
Hundreds of dungeons, each different, and many different dungeons to go and advance, regardless of your current level.
A living world of high, rocky mountains, arid deserts, deep forests, and dark, murky swamplands that create a diversity in your travels... each terrain hosting its own types of monsters.
All this is only scratching the surface of whats available in Asherons Call.
Regardless of the dated graphics and it's age, many who have played AC and who have also played many other current mmos still agree that Asherons Call is one of the greatest mmos of all time... even compared to the newer shinier mmos of today.
With all this, it truly amazes me that Turbine doesn't put some of the effort and money they are spending on D&D Online and LoTR Online into a graphically superior version of this great classic mmo. They could name it something like "Asherons Call Reborn" and have a new graphics engine and overhaul to take advantage of todays superior computer systems. And then if they'd only spend a little money advertising this game and using their great success with Asherons Call as a marketing stone, they could easily be one of the best selling mmos of all time. They could easily make millions upon millions more profit every single month with a game this good. All they need is more current, more tempting graphics to go along with their already superior game.. and they'd have a diamond in the ruff in the over crowded mmo market today. All they'd need is a new graphics engine, many more servers to host all the new players, and a few bucks spent to advertise it.
I simply don't understand when a company like Turbine already has a far superior product to whats out there, why they don't take advantage of its success and fan loyalty by spending some $$ on it to make it be so much more then it is now.
It sure seems to me that this would make a lot more sense then putting millions into a flop like AC2, or into huge new money pits like D&D or LoTR. AC is proven. It just needs some updating and advertising.
Surely someone agrees with me here?
- Zaxx
Comments
Although some people would return to AC, and it will attract new people who didnt play because of the outdated graphics, it wouldnt pay off to put that much money into that kind of update. I doubt it would attract and keep enough people to make it worth it. Would be awesome if it could but I dont think it would.
I totally disagree Lanmoragon
Asherons Call of all the mmos I have played the past seven years hold the most exciting, the most rewarding, and most vivid memories of all game experiences in my 25 year old life. It wasn't my first mmo. It was my third. UO, then EQ, then AC because a friend told me how much better it was then EQ which I was playing at the time. He was right. I still remember my homeland where I spent so much time defending my allegiances lifestone and town of Al-Arqas. I remember so well hunting so hard and selling loot for hours just to buy a decent set of armor. The dungeons and the world did seem to have a life. Asherons Call is so easy to not only get addicted to, it is so easy to grow up in with your character. You make real life friendships in a game like Asherons Call.
I have to agree with Zax that if Turbine spent some time and money updating only the graphics to current mmo standards and spending some money of advertising, then word of mouth about its fun level would take it from there. AC is not a game like EQ2, like WoW, or like GW. It doesn't get boring after a few weeks or months. It's fun and depth level are still intensely fun after many years. It is a game to grow up with, and in my opinion, not only is AC one of the best mmorpgs ever produced, but also one of the five best games ever produced, period. Turbine would be very wise to bring it up to todays standards to engage all the new mmo fans of today who grow bored with games like WoW and GW and want a more rewarding game experience with their game time.
AC1 is done. AC2 is done.
I would love to see the basic concepts and universe of AC1 redone eventually with an udpated engine. It wouldn't be good to just update the current game. The game needs a completely fresh start. Turbine needs to take a firm stance against third party apps and macroing permanetly. Allowing NONE is the only option. Trying to ride the line of "allowing some macroing and third party apps" just irritates everyone. A lot of work needs to be done to bring it up to speed with modern MMORPG's. The skill system, loot, quests, universe, and pvp are great. Things like trading, chat, UI, maps, and a whole lot more need modernization.
Jaguar, you totally surprised me with that post. I never saw your attitude turn so sour. Is this even the same Jaguar? AC and AC2 are not done, they are going to have monthly and bi-monthly updates. These games will be evolving until the plugs are pulled. I certainly would have quit AC 3 years ago if there were no updates.
The 3rd party programs is just another lame, meaningless excuse to dislike the game, like the old bot excuse. The important qualities are the fun factor and lasting appeal. AC has both of those qualities very well done compared to the rest of the mmorpg market. It has less people than 3 years ago, but it still has plenty. I do quests with 3 dozen or more people per group about 3 times a week.
The real problem is that the game is old. The new feeling is gone, and really it's never coming back. If you want the new feelings, you have to play a new game. AC is great because of what it is, it's not bad because of what it's not. 2 patches a month won't take away the fact that this is an old game. Turbine has spent lots of money getting this game back on store shelves, and spending even more money will not turn this back into a new game. I'm just tired of the same old excuses to dislike this game. There are fewer people because the game is old, and people use macros and bots in some cases because they have basically figured out the most efficient ways of playing. It happens to every old mmorpg, so please don't blame Turbine, blame the players. Blame the players for taking advantage of the game, and taking the new, fresh feeling away.
I play the game, and I love it. It has nothing to do with 3rd party apps, or bots. I don't even think about those things. I just sit down and enjoy the game.
If almost all of the players have to resort to third party apps and to a lesser extent bots, the game is flawed. We're not talking about a few people here who are altering the game for their own enjoyment, almost everyone in AC1 has to resort to third party content to make it fun. A smart developer would implement the features those things provide since obviously players want or need them and the developers are failing to meet demands. Yes, it is impossible to fully meet the players needs . However, Turbine with AC1 fails to do so far more than any other game I've played.
I've come to really dislike AC2 lately because of the engine issue. I've always had a grudge against the engine but I hadn't played any games that were as good or better looking than AC2. So, I let it slide thinking I might be over reacting or other newer game engines might have some slight issues like AC2. I was wrong I've been playing more MMORPG's lately and I realize AC2's engine really is crap. I feel extremely insulted Turbine hasn't fixed the issue in 2 years. I have made several posts on the AC2 forums complaining and there's never any response. I feel like Turbine doesn't care and at this point I don't expect them to because AC2 is DONE. There are no more subscribers to gain unless something drastic is done and an awesome marketing campaign is put to work (like with TV ads). The content being added will continue to grow smaller as will the player base.
I hope AC1 and AC2 go on for a long time. They are just not games I will invest anymore time into at this point. I've lost faith in Turbine. They make good efforts but always fail to meet MY expectations and needs. The games may be everything you want but not for me.
Not going to bash AC, it's a decent game. But it'd have to have a huge subscriber turn around for Turbine to be able to justify a total engine revamp. They can't just 'throw' 2005 graphics at the game. To do so they'd need to do a complete engine overhaul so that it could handle increased poly's, etc.
It's just not popular enough for Turbine to sink that many resources into it.
And while you may not think that 3rd party app useage is a problem in an MMO the fact is that if players are forced to resort to 3rd party apps and if bots are the rule of the day, the game has some flaws that cause them to do so.
Those are just simple basic facts. And, no matter how fun you find the game the fact is that not enough people agree with you to make it popular enough to boost the population to where Turbine can afford to invest major money into a re-work of that magnitude.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
While I agree that you can't bring back the new feelings to Asherons Call, you CAN restore the game with new graphics and a new engine. With a total graphics revamp, that would be all you need. The game itself is massive fun still today. I honestly believe that with fresh new graphics, this game would be a a MAJOR competitor in today mmo market where most games are just pretty... but get pretty boring way too fast. This is where Asherons Call blows all the competition away... and for all the new players that would give AC a chance if only it had a total graphical revamp with a new engine, it WOULD have that fresh new feeling. AC charges $12.95 per month currently and hosts about 40,000 paying subscribers. That's over half a million a month in fees. They have the money from AC to put millions of dollars into games like D&D Online and LoTR Online... well they certainly have the money to upgrade ACs graphics I would think.
Doing so and advertising the new game release like crazy would probably generate a first month of alteast tenfold its current subsriber base. And because of its lasting fun factor, most would likely stay for a very long time. Word of mouth about this unknown classic to all the new mmo fans would likely generate even more sales and subscriptions, especially to all the newer mmo fans you see who are posting asking for a mmo game to play who have grown bored with games like World of Warcraft and Guild Wars.
I still think overhauling this great classic game today and advertising the hell out of it and making it available at EVERY Walmart, Best Buy, EB Games, Target in the country etc etc would be the smartest investment Turbine could do.
- Zaxx
I will agree to an extent. This should have been AC 2, but since it isn't, this should be AC 3 and not AC 1 the redux.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I don't think you understand the ammount of work that would have to go into upgrading the underlying engine of the game:
Every single area of the game would have to be ported over to the new engine. Then every single pixel of every single poly would have to be re-created in the new engine.
It's basically a re-write of the game to do that. Why do you think when that EQ didn't go ahead and do ALL of EverQuest when Kunark came out? Or Vellious? Or any of the other expansions? Because they'd have to re-write the entire game in the new engine if they did. It's not a matter of just porting the graphics onto a new engine, you then have to re-design every single graphic in the new engine so that it looks new. Otherwise it'd just be old graphics on a new engine.
It's a MAJOR rewrite to the game.
Can it be done? Sure it can. The question isn't whether it's technically feasible the question is "is it worth the money to basically re-develop the graphics side of the game from scratch?" The answer, evidently, is "no". They just put out an update that re-skinned the entire game with updated graphics on the OLD engine. If they had felt the game would benefit from a total engine overhaul this would have been the time to do it. Obviously they have neither the resources nor the will to do something of that magnitude and have done the financial numbers to show that it's not something that would net them a gain.
Sure the game is profitable. But you don't go wasting profits if you don't expect a good ROI (Return On Investment). Remember that something of that magnitude would probably cost them millions to do.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
In my opinion AC1 is never going to be more than a has been mmorpg, the same with AC2, lets face it, the ammount of active players in both games is miniscule and dont justify the continued develpment of content for them, the recent expansions for both games are bad buisness in my view, i think turbine just thought to themselfs that they needed to maintain their player base till they launch their new titles, LotR and D&DO, when those games are finaly launched we will prolly see turbine removing human resources from AC1 and AC2 toards their new games.
In the end, ppl will remmenber AC as not so popular alternative to EQ that never quite gathered the level of popularity of their rival(EQ), AC2 will be remmenbered for one of the worst launches in mmorpg history to rival even anarchy onlines launch, the complete lack of decent content that plagued it for much of its life spam and the fact that it never even got close to its competition.
Sorry if my post offends any of the AC 1/2 fans out there, but its just my own views on the games.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Ugh, don't remind me of either of those launches. These are reasons why I never pre-order MMO's anymore.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I still wouldn't play it.
I tried it back in its heyday, when the polygon count was slightly under par and only UO/EQ were its primary competitors. Didn't like it then, still don't like it today.
I totally understand how much work and money that this graphics overhaul I suggest would cost. But they already have the outline for it with their current game. And let's assume for a moment that they did invest millions into this task. And they advertised the hell out of it (which would probably double their total expense as advertising is not cheap)... Don't you think they would atleast generate about half a million initial sales of their new release? Remember how fiercily I am talking about advertising it to get it known and get all the millions of new mmo players to take a honest look at this great classic game. Half a million initial sales (and I think this number is a very conservative guess) at $50 a pop would generate atleast twenty five million and thats just from the new game box! That alone would probably pay for the graphics revamp and new engine. They already have the servers. They have everything else they need. Granted they may need to expand their servers in the near future if it did turn as profitable as I think it would. And they would need to get some more staff for customer service etc. But for the most part, they already have everything they need to support a revamped player base with a revamped engine and graphics.
I understand that some (or a lot of you) may disagree with me. And Turbine likely disagrees too. However, my suggestion is a long term success investment for what I genuinely feel is the greatest mmo ever produced. Turbine would probably rather put money into a new game like World of Warcraft which will generate a ton of players from every corner of the game market.. not just harcore mmo fans that would love a new AC better. They probably feel that their games like D&D Online and Lord of the Rings Online will draw much higher numbers... atleast in the short term. And in that short term, they likely don't really care if those games get boring too quickly, as they will have already turned much more quick profit. I think I understand what they are doing. They are looking at what would give them the most financial return for their investment in the next 2 or 3 years. However, while a total revamp of AC1 may not generate the short term huge $$$ that new games like D&D Online will, I still think it would pay off very well... and help them keep their first classic game running competitively for over 12 years. To have a first mmo game like AC1 keep going and going and going for 12-14 years in such a competitive market would definately be some major bragging rights as well as great advertising material for Turbine. And to graphically overhaul the great Asherons Call, I believe would be what it takes to keep AC running competively for the next 6 years in todays mmo market.
- Zaxx
Just trying to be a little devil´s advocate here, i think you are making a big assumption on AC1 capacity to apeal to new gamers, lets face it, the main player base for a new gfx en gine would be the existent community, wich by itself is very small, even at the top of its popularity AC1 didnt gather that much of a following, what makes you expect that a new gfx engine and PR campaign would gather more players when the market already has its fair share of fantasy mmropgs? Just a doubt i have.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Half a million initial sales? I want whatever you're smoking bud. EQ2 didn't even hit half a million initial sales and it WAS agressively marketed. SWG didn't hit half a million. Only WoW hit that number and that was because every warcraft and diablo player in the world knows and trusts Blizzard. No way do I see a revamped version of an old game getting half a million initial sales. Not when every MMO player out there already knows about AC and has formed at least a partial opinion of it. The only real growth would be from new sales and I just don't see where they'd get the numbers you are talking about.
There is also no way someone would pay $50 for a re-skinned game. I'm sorry, that just isn't going to happen. AC is an old game, by anyone's standards. Nobody is going to pay the price of a brand new title for one that's been on the shelves for almost 7 years.
AC has plenty of other issues besides just graphics. They've been discussed a lot in both these forums and on the AC forums. They'd have to fix all those issues as well. Not to mention the fact that AC simply is not the 'best' MMO on the market. A few people really like it. If it were the 'best' MMO on the market more people would be playing it. Regardless of marketting or advertizement. EVE has had little or no marketting at all. It's only ever been on store shelves like once. Yet it has twice the number of subscribers AC does, it's in a smaller niche market, and is GROWING. AC is shrinking and has more marketting than EVE ever has.
I don't think a new graphics engine would really help the game that much. The graphics in AC are really not all that bad. They're a little dated but it's not like we're talking about UO graphics here. They are good enough that if the gameplay were as fun as you claim people would play it despite the graphics. And that just isn't happening.
AC is dated, it's old, and it's got some flaws that people can't get past. And, frankly, I think Turbine is just running it in maintenance level mode because they know that there isn't anything they can do to bring it back to life. If they could they would have, it's their flagship after all. If they'd thought your idea would work, at all, they'd have done it.
People also keep saying that Turbine is using AC profits to produce DDO and LOTR... they are not. They are using outside investor money for the most part.
AC did ok in it's time. It was a somewhat fun game. But it's prime is long past and other games are far more fun to play now. If it were more fun to play, as I said, more people would be playing it. You can only blame so much on lack of marketting. The rest is pure and simple game appeal. AC apparently doesn't have enough to keep people coming back. It's not like folks haven't tried it, they have. Almost everyone I know has tried AC, some of them many times, and they keep leaving it for other games. And none of them have ever gone back.
AC has a loyal core of players that will probably play it for a long time yet to come. But the odds of it becoming a major MMO again are slim at best.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
just curious. i havent played AC1 in years...are the mobs still static or do they roam the countryside now?
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
LoL. They are still static bro.
That's another thing they need to do with my dream graphics revamp. Make the damn mobs roam and give em a little more AI.
Like Martin Luther King JR said... I have a dream.
...Leave my dream alone damn it. LOL. AC1 roxxerz over GW, EQ2, and WoW despite the popularity numbers.
{wimpers away crying with his AC box in hand...}
- Zaxx
ARRRGHH.
See... this is exactly what I am talking about!!
The new release of Asherons Call "Throne of Destiny" which was out Monday isn't friggin available.
I thought it was supposed to be widely released on store shelves, so this is why I never pre-ordered it.
I can't get a friggin copy of it.
Walmart shows it in their computer as released, but says that they will not be carrying the game.
Best Buy still has pre-order boxes of the TOD expansion and the manager of the store has no idea when the copies will be in.
The two EB Games stores in my area got in 48 copies of the game each, but both stores sold out of them in under 1 hour of stores opening on Monday according to the store sales person.
Target has never heard of the game, and knows nothing about it.
Same thing for Kmart, ShopKo, and Fred Meyer. The Fred Meyer sales guy did tell me to call him back if I got a copy of it and tell him where I found it, lol.
So I guess I will have to order the damn thing.
This is exactly what I talk about. How can Turbine possibly expect to ever get more then 40,000 customers if they don't make their friggin game available? Every damn Walmart and Target in town has alteast 20 copies of EQ2 and Guild Wars on the shelves, but the distribution for AC's new expansion sucks. So much for having Sony handle the distribution huh?
I still say that AC would have sooo many more subscribers if they just advertised more and mainly if they made their damn game readily available in stores! Much less if they revamped the games graphics.
Sad... just sad.
- Zaxx
I really thought it would get more exposure since Sony was distributing it. I bet alot of companies aren't bothering to stock it though because most compuer game shops actually keep mininmal copies of PC games in stock anymore because the longevity on them is shorter now then in the past and mostly selling console games.
Will be interesting to see where the failure was, with Sony or Turbine.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
A graphics revamp that fixes issues... shoud have been AC2. Should now be AC3. Pity that won't happen -- at least, I have no faith in it happening. But it would be nice if it did...
Ah, wishful thinking.
Please step *away* from the crack pipe.
Asheron's Call is a great game, produced by a great company. Turbine has always stood by its community tyhroughout gamre production, and since they are heralding two of the biggest MMO release next year, I understand the AC has been getting the backseat.
Fear not! I have heard from some of my copatriots that this year's Turbine Nation should prove excellent for AC!
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
- Edward R. Murrow
Crack pipe me all day long buddy...
But the fact is that Asherons Call has about 40,000 current subscribers... and it hasnt been on store shelves for years!!
Imagine what the number could or would be if only it was out there on Walmarts shelves. On Best Buys shelves. On all the department stores shelves. There would likely be a good number of people picking up a Guild Wars box priced at $49.95 and then an Asherons Call box priced at $19.95 or $29.95 and just based on percentages and numbers alone, a great deal more copies of AC and threfore many more AC subscriptions would be on the charts. There's a reason that like all of the 40,000 current AC players are such long time loyal fans. New fans aren't happening because the game simply isn't getting distributed to the main outlets where it can be exposed and passed out to all the new mmo players today.
You can say I am smoking crack all you like.
But AC is still a great game, and better then most, if not all of the newer mmo releases today.
All they need is good distribution. Hard to sell something if you don't make it available. Advertising would also help. And my idea for an up-to-date graphics overhaul with aggressive advertising also couldn't hurt.
You can say I am smoking crack all you like.
But honestly, I think it's Turbine who is smoking some serious crack by not exposing their game more with good distribution... especially on a new expansion like Throne of Destiny. It simply should be out there on store shelves.
- Zaxx
You be missing the point completly, eve online isnt even on shelves and hasnt been on shelves for a very long time... its from iceland even, do you know many ppl from there? i guess not, it has zero advertisment, apart from the ocasional add on this very site and eve prolly has more active subscribers than AC1 and 2 put together, it has the record for the number or ppl online in one server at the same time, 13000 or something like that.
Its not the gfx or advertisement that make a game, its the gameplay and the apeal factor, none of wich AC1 has very much of.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
I'll agree that it's old, but being old isn't bad. You talk a lot about flaws in general, but you aren't saying what they are. If adding and updating content functionality, and adding new quests and activities means maintenance then you are right. You also said the game isn't great because not a lot of people play it. Allow me to suggest another reason why it's not as populated. The game is not very accessible to the casual gamer. I am a hardcore gamer, and casual games really don't interest me. I don't play WoW because it is geared towards the casual gamer, and it's too simple. I like complex games with long learning curves. Ease of use and streamlined games are not qualities I look for. I am a serious, hardcore gamer, and AC is perfect for me.
The PC games market has grown over the last 10 years. The only reason it appears to be shrinking is because the console game market has exploded in growth over the last 10 years.
And finally, I will retort against the idea that the game is flawed because of the use of 3rd party apps. Even if you don't use 3rd party apps in this game, it many times more complex, satisfying, content-rich, and fun than 95% of the mmorpg market. The 3rd party apps are no longer required. Buffing is streamlined. Salvaging is streamlined. Even alchemy and cooking are easier than early on in the game. There are no true flaws in this game that require 3rd party apps. They are simply cool touches.
The best 3 mmorpgs for the hardcore gamer of all time are AC, Eve, and UO. I stick by that statement.