Fallout 4 PC beta patch today, 2.1 GB

Grunty

Bethesda's release is a very short summary of changes.
https://bethesda.net/en/devnote/2yBIs6lDs0UM2IECYw0QEq/fallout-4-update-creation-club

Most of it appears to be the introduction of something they call Creation Club.  Also some new equipment that is mostly new armor and a couple of new weapons.  Improved modification support. Support for .ESL files.

The Steam article has more details including images.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/377160/announcements/detail/1448326045456809208

"Featuring new items, abilities and gameplay created by Bethesda Games Studios and outside development partners – including the best community creators – Creation Club content is fully curated and compatible with the main game, official add-ons, and achievements. Currently available for Fallout 4, Creation Club will be coming to Skyrim Special Edition next month. All Creation Club content works on PlayStation 4, Xbox One and PC. And of course, Mods will remain a free and open system where anyone can create and share what they’d like. "

Sovrath

Grunty said:

Bethesda's release is a very short summary of changes.
https://bethesda.net/en/devnote/2yBIs6lDs0UM2IECYw0QEq/fallout-4-update-creation-club

Most of it appears to be the introduction of something they call Creation Club.  Also some new equipment that is mostly new armor and a couple of new weapons.  Improved modification support. Support for .ESL files.

The Steam article has more details including images.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/377160/announcements/detail/1448326045456809208

"Featuring new items, abilities and gameplay created by Bethesda Games Studios and outside development partners – including the best community creators – Creation Club content is fully curated and compatible with the main game, official add-ons, and achievements. Currently available for Fallout 4, Creation Club will be coming to Skyrim Special Edition next month. All Creation Club content works on PlayStation 4, Xbox One and PC. And of course, Mods will remain a free and open system where anyone can create and share what they’d like. "

The creation club should be interesting. It's coming to skyrim as well.

I'm definitely looking forward to this.

Panther2103

So the creation club uses credits to buy content made by other people and bethesda? That's interesting, it sounds a lot like the paid mods steam originally tried to do with their games. I'm okay with giving people money for things they create as long as it is actually well made. 

Sovrath

Panther2103 said:

So the creation club uses credits to buy content made by other people and bethesda? That's interesting, it sounds a lot like the paid mods steam originally tried to do with their games. I'm okay with giving people money for things they create as long as it is actually well made. 

That's also my thought. New Content from Bethesda is worth money. Great content by secondary developers or top modders is also worth money.

Pynda

Panther2103 said:

...I'm okay with giving people money for things they create as long as it is actually well made. 

I got a real taste of how this eventually works out installing a Boeing 737 simulator on my PC. Everyone's little mod is worth (according to the developers) a minimum of around $20, some of them charge up to perhaps $80, and by the time I had finally finished getting everything set up the way I wanted it I had spent over $600 for one game. I was rewarded at the end of this process with a truly fun and unique experience, but one final take.

Never (evar) again. To hell with paid mods.

TheScavenger

Why are all the creation club files for the paid content in my game folder when I didn't download or buy them. Did Bethesda give them out for free? Why did Bethesda force the files onto everyones PCs and consoles if they didn't buy the paid mod?

The hilarious part is with NIFskope and a combination of other modding tools freely available that have been used for years BY MODDERS, I can unpack and pack everything in the files included...wtf? Literally the same tools used to make mods can be used to unpack and pack the paid for mods rofl. Its not even pirating mods at this point because Bethesda put the files on my hard drive (along with everyone else) and I used modding tools (used by most modders) to make my own mods lol.

This is is hilarious. You can't even say its pirated, because Bethesda put the files there themselves and then all you do is mod (with tools every modder uses) the paid mods and then its your own. And then every time a new paid mod is out, its gonna download a new update and force it on peoples hard drives/ssd and consoles lol. WTF. I definitely don't like being forced content I didn't buy onto my PC taking up my bandwidth limit when I didn't even ask or want the paid mods on my comptuer lol.

This is so hilarious I'm laughing so much at how much this is a disaster. 

Steam paid mods were literally 100% better than this

TheScavenger

With bethesda downloading everything to peoples PCs and consoles...even if someone never even bought the paid mod...imagine all the people with limited hard drive space (especially SSDs), paid bandwidth, limited bandwidth

This is a bigger disaster than steam paid mods

BeansnBread

TheScavenger said:

This is a bigger disaster than steam paid mods

no.

TheScavenger

BeansnBread said:

TheScavenger said:

This is a bigger disaster than steam paid mods

no.

yes

TheScavenger

at least you actually had to buy steam paid mods if you wanted the mods. If you didn't, never had to waste the money or bandwidth to get them. Bethesda puts ALL the paid mods right on your PC for free, whether you want it or not lol.

BeansnBread

TheScavenger said:

at least you actually had to buy steam paid mods if you wanted the mods. If you didn't, never had to waste the money or bandwidth to get them. Bethesda puts ALL the paid mods right on your PC for free, whether you want it or not lol.

Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?

TheScavenger

BeansnBread said:

TheScavenger said:

at least you actually had to buy steam paid mods if you wanted the mods. If you didn't, never had to waste the money or bandwidth to get them. Bethesda puts ALL the paid mods right on your PC for free, whether you want it or not lol.

Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?

They actually do.

Better you research something before posting next time.

BeansnBread

TheScavenger said:

BeansnBread said:

TheScavenger said:

at least you actually had to buy steam paid mods if you wanted the mods. If you didn't, never had to waste the money or bandwidth to get them. Bethesda puts ALL the paid mods right on your PC for free, whether you want it or not lol.

Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?

They actually do.

Better you research something before posting next time.

It would be nice if you actually linked something that had some basis in reality. What you linked is not evidence.

Grunty

Most of the armors that you see images of in the Steam article can be received by completing new missions.

TheScavenger

BeansnBread said:

TheScavenger said:

BeansnBread said:

TheScavenger said:

at least you actually had to buy steam paid mods if you wanted the mods. If you didn't, never had to waste the money or bandwidth to get them. Bethesda puts ALL the paid mods right on your PC for free, whether you want it or not lol.

Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?

They actually do.

Better you research something before posting next time.

It would be nice if you actually linked something that had some basis in reality. What you linked is not evidence.

you are the very definition fake news. Anyone with fallout 4 installed on steam and looks in their data folder can see all the files, or look on google and find the info. Or find the multiple videos on it (which Gopher is a very well known youtuber btw, did you bother to watch the video or just went straight back to spreading more fake news?)

Here, to destroy your fake news posts and since you need your hand held since you are unable to look for yourself (or maybe you can and are trying to spread false information)...

https://bethesda.net/community/topic/88724/why-is-fo4-auto-downloading-creation-club-ba2s

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5945503-so-i-havent-bought-a-single-thing-from-the-creation-club-but-i-have-all-their-assets-and-so-do-you-probaly/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fo4/comments/6wljzk/creation_club_megathread/dm98njb/

This one does say ESP files aren't included though. But its very easy for an average modder to make an ESP file (through the creation kit provided by the game) and unpack/pack the files. The typical gamer won't be able to do it though if they have no modding experience. However it still shows the files are placed on peoples hard drives without being asked for it) http://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/1474221865183258171/ 

TheScavenger

Torval said:

OMG. Making Hyperbole Great Again! People will believe what they want regardless of facts (if they're inconvenient call it 'fake news').

Next up in the world of gamer surprises, many games download DLC assets whether you own the expac or not. More breaking news at 11. Now back to you "Angry YouTube Ranter".

You are fake news as well. The person I quoted said

"Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?"

I provided information that in fact was the paid mods get downloaded to the PC. Now you are trying to change the subject because I provided the information that in fact they do get downloaded to the PC. However, the person I quoted implied that was not the case.

Nice try, but try again

The funny thing is though, its super easy to use the paid mods with the provided modding tools provided by Bethesda, so don't actually have to pay them if someone has any knowledge of modding

TheScavenger

Torval said:

TheScavenger said:

Torval said:

OMG. Making Hyperbole Great Again! People will believe what they want regardless of facts (if they're inconvenient call it 'fake news').

Next up in the world of gamer surprises, many games download DLC assets whether you own the expac or not. More breaking news at 11. Now back to you "Angry YouTube Ranter".

You are fake news as well. The person I quoted said

"Are you making the assumption that because there was a download that they are downloading the mods to your pc?"

I provided information that in fact was the paid mods get downloaded to the PC. Now you are trying to change the subject because I provided the information that in fact they do get downloaded to the PC. However, the person I quoted said that was not the case. 

Nice try, but try again

So you can use all those paid mods?

yes, with the creation kit provided by Bethesda you can make an ESP out of the files. It does take some modding knowledge though, but all it takes is Bethesda's Creation Kit that they provide for everyone

http://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/1474221865183258171/ 

Quotes-
"You can pack the resources yourself into an esp file with certain ways, won't say how so they don't get the wrong Idea.
Or there's the finalized files you can rename into .esp or .lesp"

and

"Originally posted by Creation Club

Originally posted by Chilli Dog Dave:

have been, but the quest scripts and such are fragmented.
only costumes are working flawlessly even then you gotta console add them

All It does Is give you the resources, you structure It yourself.

That.

I have personally made many ESPs, the scripts are good, as are the files. The only issue I have are typical of using other mods, CBBE bodies, hands, and mod hair poking through. The scripts are good, they just have nothing to fire them unil they are placed in an esp file. I did this all with blind ESP files linking to the BA2 files we DLed."

TheScavenger

Torval said:

Right, so they're not downloading custom content. They're downloading shared assets. You claim to understand modding but are outraged at such a simple concept? Amazing. I'll file this under, "Gamers that love to be indignant about everything."

You're not getting the custom mod files though are you? So they're not downloading the mods like you claim. They're downloading assets which you have to package into a mod file to even make work.

So there is a bunch of theorycrafting about how something is supposed to be wrong and we're supposed to be outraged, but nothing bad is actually happening and what you claim isn't going down the way you say. Got it.

Its 2gb of assets now, but once more and more assets get put on the creation club...the size could easily get vastly bigger. You probably do not have to deal with paying for bandwidth, or have bandwidth limits...but people all over the world (Australia being a big one for that) have to deal with bandwidth. And many people keep their games on SSDs which don't often have room for lots of space.

And the assets are so easily used by creating a simple esp and packing the assets into it with the creation club, that anyone with modding knowledge can make an ESP and use the assets.

Do you honestly see no problem with the above? Maybe not the first if you are one of those with unlimited free bandwidth, but most people don't have that luxury even in the US. And the assets are way too easily used.

How is that BETTER than steam paid mods? Steam paid mods only downloaded when you bought them and no one had easy access to make a simple esp out of the assets that were steam paid mods.

Buccaneer

Jim Sterling is not a big fan of the creation club

TheScavenger

Buccaneer said:

Jim Sterling is not a big fan of the creation club

in before the "angry youtube crowd" comment gets said again. Or "don't like Jim Sterling" and ignoring the content in the video, or any variation of the above

Now I beat the comments to it

But yeah I saw Jim Sterling wasn't very happy. His main complaint was that its just re-skins, and small mods and things you can get free on Nexus. He even showed that the modded versions actually look BETTER than the paid ones. 

I'd be happy (along with many others) if it was quest mods, new lands and DLC sized quality content. Not this junk.

If DLC quality content appears on the creation club, I'd pay for it.

Buccaneer

TheScavenger said:

Buccaneer said:

in before the "angry youtube crowd" comment gets said again. Or "don't like Jim Sterling" and ignoring the content in the video, or any variation of the above

Now I beat the comments to it

But yeah I saw Jim Sterling wasn't very happy. His main complaint was that its just re-skins, and small mods and things you can get free on Nexus. He even showed that the modded versions actually look BETTER than the paid ones. 

I'd be happy (along with many others) if it was quest mods, new lands and DLC sized quality content. Not this junk.

If DLC quality content appears on the creation club, I'd pay for it.

I agree fully.  If it was proper DLC I may have been interested but not for half arsed skins.  I also didn't like the micro-transaction method of buying the paid mods. They should let people buy the mods individually instead of using a made up currency. 

GeezerGamer

My only hope is that they pay very close attention to the mistakes made when they tried paid modding in Skyrim (2011 edition)

The modding community is a pool. You freely contribute, you freely take if it. Most of the really good mods are not single projects but are compilations built upon works by previous modders.

The whole issue around paid modding in Skyrim came about when 2 very prominent modders came to blows.

Fore, created FNIS, Fores New Idles in Skyrim. Just about every mod that uses non vanilla or custom animations uses resources created by Fore. He is also very much against Paid-for modding and will not allow his work to be used in that capacity.......That means no profitable mods can have custom animations.....No one else has made a mod that can replace FNIS yet.

Then there was Chesko. Another prominent modder who made some very well known mods for Skyrim. His mod "Art of the Catch" was at the epicenter of the controversy. He'd used some of Fore's resources in his mod that he charged money for on Steam. He did this with a couple other mods too. He used Apachii hair resources in his Arissa mod.

Needless to say the authors of the these mods went through the roof. Given how embedded and how deep the concept of shared knowledge went. There was almost no way to separate out who's work is who's. Until the original authors come forward and say "Hey, that's mine, you can use that to make money" Steam had no choice but to pull the plug on it.

This brought to light one huge factor in all this. Modding is built on modding. Paid-for mods will subvert this at a foundational level.

Mods will no longer be built off a pool of knowledge open to a community but will become siloed sourses of knowlege to be protected.

I don't see this as a good thing.

Sovrath

TheScavenger said:

You are fake news as well. The person I quoted said

A person disbelieving someone or some source is "not" fake news.

"Fake News' is just that ... news that is "fake". Not real. Printed to be sensational or to mislead.

So for instance, if what you are posting turns out to be false then "you" would be the very definition of fake news. Of course, if what you have posted is true then it still does not change the fact that people not believing you are "not" fake news.

TheScavenger

GeezerGamer said:

My only hope is that they pay very close attention to the mistakes made when they tried paid modding in Skyrim (2011 edition)

The modding community is a pool. You freely contribute, you freely take if it. Most of the really good mods are not single projects but are compilations built upon works by previous modders.

The whole issue around paid modding in Skyrim came about when 2 very prominent modders came to blows.

Fore, created FNIS, Fores New Idles in Skyrim. Just about every mod that uses non vanilla or custom animations uses resources created by Fore. He is also very much against Paid-for modding and will not allow his work to be used in that capacity.......That means no profitable mods can have custom animations.....No one else has made a mod that can replace FNIS yet.

Then there was Chesko. Another prominent modder who made some very well known mods for Skyrim. His mod "Art of the Catch" was at the epicenter of the controversy. He'd used some of Fore's resources in his mod that he charged money for on Steam. He did this with a couple other mods too. He used Apachii hair resources in his Arissa mod.

Needless to say the authors of the these mods went through the roof. Given how embedded and how deep the concept of shared knowledge went. There was almost no way to separate out who's work is who's. Until the original authors come forward and say "Hey, that's mine, you can use that to make money" Steam had no choice but to pull the plug on it.

This brought to light one huge factor in all this. Modding is built on modding. Paid-for mods will subvert this at a foundational level.

Mods will no longer be built off a pool of knowledge open to a community but will become siloed sourses of knowlege to be protected.

I don't see this as a good thing.

Yeah, that was one of the biggest problems with the steam paid mods was modders pretty much re-uploading the same mod (and removing the free version in many cases) AND using assets from other mods. This does get around that problem, but in the end its still copies of nexus mods from whats in the creation club so far.

Paid mods could very well be good though. Imagine a team of modders making something like Beyond Skyrim: Cyrodiil. I'd pay a lot of money for that alone. Or something smaller, maybe a hearthfire (Skyrim) or contraptions DLC (Fallout 4) or an automatron sized DLC (Fallout 4)

Modders make very very little donations on Nexus. SkyUI creator said over the years he only earned 30 dollars for his work on SkyUI and that is the most popular and biggest mod for Skyrim.

I do think they should get rewarded for the effort they put in. I however wouldn't pay for reskins. But I'd pay (and did donate) for SkyUI because he deserved it and its an essential mod. 5 dollar donation is very little in the grand scheme of things, but more than he usually gets. 

However, I'm not sure if there'll ever be DLC sized mods. Someone pointed out on Reddit...how would they pay for all the voice actors and a whole mod team? Would they pay the creator of the mod or everyone involved? 

There is also a very small limit on what can be uploaded on creation club (forgot the mod size limit off top of my head, but there is another limit too with how much can be changed). Maybe because of PS4/Xbox they can't allow huge mods to take over...but that would then make the creation club junk.

 I'd definitely pay like I said for DLC quality content. Also, Hearthfire was 5 dollars, and some of the paid mods are nearly that price...that power armor is not Hearthfire quality 5 dollars lol

GeezerGamer

TheScavenger said:

GeezerGamer said:

My only hope is that they pay very close attention to the mistakes made when they tried paid modding in Skyrim (2011 edition)

The modding community is a pool. You freely contribute, you freely take if it. Most of the really good mods are not single projects but are compilations built upon works by previous modders.

The whole issue around paid modding in Skyrim came about when 2 very prominent modders came to blows.

Fore, created FNIS, Fores New Idles in Skyrim. Just about every mod that uses non vanilla or custom animations uses resources created by Fore. He is also very much against Paid-for modding and will not allow his work to be used in that capacity.......That means no profitable mods can have custom animations.....No one else has made a mod that can replace FNIS yet.

Then there was Chesko. Another prominent modder who made some very well known mods for Skyrim. His mod "Art of the Catch" was at the epicenter of the controversy. He'd used some of Fore's resources in his mod that he charged money for on Steam. He did this with a couple other mods too. He used Apachii hair resources in his Arissa mod.

Needless to say the authors of the these mods went through the roof. Given how embedded and how deep the concept of shared knowledge went. There was almost no way to separate out who's work is who's. Until the original authors come forward and say "Hey, that's mine, you can use that to make money" Steam had no choice but to pull the plug on it.

This brought to light one huge factor in all this. Modding is built on modding. Paid-for mods will subvert this at a foundational level.

Mods will no longer be built off a pool of knowledge open to a community but will become siloed sourses of knowlege to be protected.

I don't see this as a good thing.

Yeah, that was one of the biggest problems with the steam paid mods was modders pretty much re-uploading the same mod (and removing the free version in many cases) AND using assets from other mods. This does get around that problem, but in the end its still copies of nexus mods from whats in the creation club so far.

Paid mods could very well be good though. Imagine a team of modders making something like Beyond Skyrim: Cyrodiil. I'd pay a lot of money for that alone. Or something smaller, maybe a hearthfire (Skyrim) or contraptions DLC (Fallout 4) or an automatron sized DLC (Fallout 4)

Modders make very very little donations on Nexus. SkyUI creator said over the years he only earned 30 dollars for his work on SkyUI and that is the most popular and biggest mod for Skyrim.

I do think they should get rewarded for the effort they put in. I however wouldn't pay for reskins. But I'd pay (and did donate) for SkyUI because he deserved it and its an essential mod. 5 dollar donation is very little in the grand scheme of things, but more than he usually gets. 

However, I'm not sure if there'll ever be DLC sized mods. Someone pointed out on Reddit...how would they pay for all the voice actors and a whole mod team? Would they pay the creator of the mod or everyone involved? 

There is also a very small limit on what can be uploaded on creation club (forgot the mod size limit off top of my head, but there is another limit too with how much can be changed). Maybe because of PS4/Xbox they can't allow huge mods to take over...but that would then make the creation club junk.

 I'd definitely pay like I said for DLC quality content. Also, Hearthfire was 5 dollars, and some of the paid mods are nearly that price...that power armor is not Hearthfire quality 5 dollars lol

I am not against authors receiving compensation for their work. If they made it, they have that right.

But what I see now, is that Skyrim (2011) will be the pinnacle of modding and we will probably never see a repeat again.

This is my prediction, and I say this because if there is a community for mods for money, and there is a community for non paid mods, it will be divided and the shared knowledge will be lessened.

As I said, I don't see this as good for modding. And the worst part of this is going to be that the modders themselves will make shit for money. But it is what it is.

As for the gamers......I love to play with modded skyrim. I've tried hundreds and hundreds of different mods. I'll play through, delete all my saves, gather up a whole new theme of mods and play another round that is completely different than the last. Well, I'm certainly not going to drop money on hundreds and hundreds of mods, so for me, those days may also be over.

GeezerGamer

Another thing......Bethesda is infamous for shirking off their responsibility on the modding community. Artmoor's mods are in every play-though I have ever done. His USLEEP mod should not even need to exist. I can see now, we will get broken games, and then have to pay for the mods that make it work right.........Yeah. sign me up.