As a solo only player...MMOs should be a social only genre

TheScavenger

There should be little for solo players to do (harvesting/crafting/housing and maybe some smaller things to do solo). As a solo only player, I moved onto other genres and found FAR better games that fit a solo only person. And if I want to play with my friend in a game, we find far more fun in games like Civilization 5, starcraft 2, Heroes of the Storm and that kinda game. 

MMOs greatest AND best difference with any other genre? The massive amount of players one can interact, socialize and do things with that no other genre can compete with.

What do games like Skyrim, and the other games have? Generally a smaller, but better quality and better game suited for 1 player to maybe 6 or 8 players. A game tailored to the players experience. And skyrim has tons of mods as well that add tons of lands/quests/dungeons etc, so you can make a pretty big game to a game world all to yourself.

MMOs however have moved heavily to a solo focused experience. However that is the greatest weakness in the MMO genre. It completely erases the greatest thing MMOs have, a social and group focused genre. And this is coming from a person who doesn't like grouping at all and will never use voice chat with strangers. But, even I see that while MMOs are not for me (that is like me being a square trying to fit into a circular hole)...and find other genres far to a better advantage for a solo or (very) small group atmosphere. 

There are MMOs coming out that look to do the old way, like Pantheon is a big one that goes back to the way MMOs were and should be...a group focused, social massive experience one can't find in any genre. That is what MMOs should be.

And this is coming from someone who would never play Pantheon, but Pantheon I really hope is successful because it is playing to the greatest strength of MMOs...social activities, group focused atmosphere and that is what MMOs are about

k61977

Couldn't disagree with you more.   There should be something for everyone.  I don't always want to have to group up to do even the simplest of task in a game.  Sometimes you want to be online with friends but not in a group with them.  Each can be off doing their own thing but if help is needed it is ready an willing to help.  I have played games many years ago that were focused mostly on group play, wasn't fun when you couldn't get in a group because your gear wasn't good enough ect.... Even the casual solo player has things to offer to the group players, some go out just the harvest good to sell on the AH, ect...   So I see your subjective opinion and think it is total horrible all around.

You point out games coming out like Pantheon, but you do realize the game is being made for a niche crowd.  It will most likely have a medium devout following for a while.  Overall I don't think a majority of people want to be grouped to just go pick a flower.  Group play for dungeons or instances is the best way to handle MMO's.  You can even have group quest on the open worlds also, but it should by no means be the only way to play.  Overall this is my opinion.

TheScavenger

k61977 said:

Couldn't disagree with you more.   There should be something for everyone.  I don't always want to have to group up to do even the simplest of task in a game.  Sometimes you want to be online with friends but not in a group with them.  Each can be off doing their own thing but if help is needed it is ready an willing to help.  I have played games many years ago that were focused mostly on group play, wasn't fun when you couldn't get in a group because your gear wasn't good enough ect.... Even the casual solo player has things to offer to the group players, some go out just the harvest good to sell on the AH, ect...   So I see your subjective opinion and think it is total horrible all around.

But that is what MMOs were built on to differentiate them from singleplayer games and small multiplayer games. I only solo, and even I realized that after I stopped playing WoW.

And WoW offers a lot to solo, but even WoW you can't get the best items or continue the story without grouping, so even the "best" solo MMO requires grouping past a certain point.

Where I think WoW (and its clones) failed is offering a (at least mostly) solo only experience from 1 to endgame, and then switched it around to needing groups for everything at endgame. Sure can do dungeons, but no one talks or does anything in them and its like eating a pinata doing dungeons in WoW...actually MORE boring (and far easier as well) queuing for dungeons than being out in the world.

However, I agree with you. There should however be things for solo players. Crafting, harvesting, housing features, ship mechanics...actually something like Ultima Online works really well.

In UO (Ultima Online), there are tons of opportunities to group, but still plenty enough for solo players. You can get the "endgame" items solo (if built certain characters right with certain player made template), or do it easier in a group and make a social event out of it. Where UO becomes different is everything is easily done as a social experience if so chosen. Where as, many MMOs are nearly all solo focused experiences until endgame where its pretty much forced grouping to progress.

Moirae

No. 

Stuka1000

OP, The mmo's that were built mainly for group only were at a time when the communities were good and a pleasure to be a part of,  MMO was a niche genre and 100k players was considered a success.

Now almost every MMO community is saturated with arseholes and tossers who players like myself want nothing to do with.  The endless search for WoW levels of players and the $$$$ that come with them has turned the genre into a series of cesspits & clones ( with a few exceptions ).  So no to your suggestion.  I would rather play solo than put up with 85% of modern MMO players.

TheScavenger

Stuka1000 said:

OP, The mmo's that were built mainly for group only were at a time when the communities were good and a pleasure to be a part of,  MMO was a niche genre and 100k players was considered a success.

Now almost every MMO community is saturated with arseholes and tossers who players like myself want nothing to do with.  The endless search for WoW levels of players and the $$$$ that come with them has turned the genre into a series of cesspits & clones ( with a few exceptions ).  So no to your suggestion.  I would rather play solo than put up with 85% of modern MMO players.

but in this case, why not do what I did; moved on to other genres of games? Aren't games like Civ 5, or Skyrim or many other different games better for a solo experience? In Skyrim, I can mold the game to however I want it to be with mods and its awesome. I even added part of cyrodil to skyrim with mods, so there is a lot more to explore and do.

sayuu

I really wonder why the OP is still here if he hates MMOs so much instead of moving on and playing these so called better single player games. . .

8 years ago I moved on from my ex-wife, I haven't talked to her since. Not even with the 2 dozen times she's tried to reconnect on social media. . . 

KnightFalz

That MMORPGs allow for group play by nature does not mean that they must necessitate it. Quite frankly many of the players in the industry aren't at such a healthy state that they are in a position to turn any players away, regardless of the way they like to play.

That they likely see that themselves probably goes a long way to explain the move to less group dependency so that they can cater to a broader audience that at one time they may have had.

Why not do what you did, and move to a different genre of games that were designed for the purpose of entertaining one player?

I don't wanna... essentially.

I enjoy playing MMORPGs and I'm not going to let that they were designed to accommodate group play get in the way of the fun I choose to have.

wanderica

I disagree.  Many people like the fluid landscape that only MMOs seem to provide.  MMOs are ever changing.  The story is always progressing.  The economy isn't static.  You see non-scripted characters out doing real things.  You don't have to interact with other people to benefit from the experience.  It's kinda how in RL, I'm a pretty private person and not very social at all, but living in a world as the only human with a bunch of robots would get old fast.  Most of the time in MMOs, I poke around and do my own thing, but for those rare times when I do want to /smile at a stranger or get help from a random passerby, that option is readily available, even if we don't stop to discuss the weather.  Single Player games, while WAY better at story immersion, simply can't give me the same experience.

iixviiiix

It's funny when most people here saw "social" and jump on the gun saying "i need no other to have fun" while they being forced to play with other to finish the contents

well, it apply to our dear game makers logic too .

Social mean create connection and sharing which most modern MMORPGs lack , with the bind on what ever , limited level , instances vvv ...

Basically it's type of game you have to solo and group mean punish .
You have 7 friend and the instances is only for 5 > 2 out and 3 is out of daily limited .
among 7 , 2 is low level , 3 is high level and 2 is middle , yolo , no contents to do together .
Hey i have a good sword  , sorry you it is bind on pickup . haha

k61977

TheScavenger said:

k61977 said:

Where I think WoW (and its clones) failed is offering a (at least mostly) solo only experience from 1 to endgame, and then switched it around to needing groups for everything at endgame. Sure can do dungeons, but no one talks or does anything in them and its like eating a pinata doing dungeons in WoW...actually MORE boring (and far easier as well) queuing for dungeons than being out in the world.

I can agree and disagree with you on this part in particular.  When WoW first launched yeah you could grind rats till max level but you couldn't really do anything other than that.  It had questlines that required grouping just to continue the story and lore part of the game.  Yeah now they have basically done what you are talking about but it wasn't always that way.  If WoW had stayed the way it was with a good portion of solo and group play like when it launched it would actually be a better game today.  Having both parts made it a better game.  You could go out an complete those solo quest while your group was forming to go do MC after it came out which was a blast back then.  Overall I don't think any MMO will be a success today if it only tries to cater to just one group of players.  Look at what happened to Wildstar which did just that it tried to cater to a niche hard core raiding and failed miserably at it.

I understand what you mean by being a solo game up till the mythic endgame also.  There are many games that do just that, those are the worst games developed developed in my opinion.    The play style should be a mix where yeah sometimes you might need a friend or two to finish something, but it doesn't have to be that way all the time either.

deniter

I don't know why there should be a genre where all games are made for everyone while other genres are built for a specific group of players in mind.

It's like if you have a racing simulator with realistic details and physics, and then you add steering helpers, auto-braking, indestructable cars, etc. the game becomes more like an arcade car game rather than a simulator. The same logic applies to MMOs as well. If you strip it down from all social aspects and community building mechanics in a favor of singe player game features, are you really playing an MMO or has the game turned to a SPG you can play together with other people?

Slapshot1188

Self edit... I derped and misread the OP

Aethaeryn

I don't get it when people want to take something away from others because it doesn't fit what they feel something should be.

I barely group in MMOs anymore but I still like the (somewhat) non static world.  I like the odd grind and I like to see different people going about doing their thing.  Some people like to be near or around other people so they will go and read a book in a park instead of their bedroom.  They don't want to interact with anyone.

Having the option to play an MMO solo doesn't take away anything from the players who want to group.  Those players are not available to group but they wouldn't be there if solo wasn't an option anyway.

I DO think that every person should TRY a game that is not solo friendly because it is an amazingly different experience.  Some games to both and make it easy to group for a bit. . or you can do raids if you want or solo easy content. 

I think people should only be allowed to eat Chinese food with chopsticks,  Pro sports should only provide seating for those who are playing.  Restaurants should ONLY serve Coke or Pepsi products and not both. . . wait.

Octagon7711

TheScavenger said:

There should be little for solo players to do (harvesting/crafting/housing and maybe some smaller things to do solo). As a solo only player, I moved onto other genres and found FAR better games that fit a solo only person. And if I want to play with my friend in a game, we find far more fun in games like Civilization 5, starcraft 2, Heroes of the Storm and that kinda game. 

MMOs greatest AND best difference with any other genre? The massive amount of players one can interact, socialize and do things with that no other genre can compete with.

What do games like Skyrim, and the other games have? Generally a smaller, but better quality and better game suited for 1 player to maybe 6 or 8 players. A game tailored to the players experience. And skyrim has tons of mods as well that add tons of lands/quests/dungeons etc, so you can make a pretty big game to a game world all to yourself.

MMOs however have moved heavily to a solo focused experience. However that is the greatest weakness in the MMO genre. It completely erases the greatest thing MMOs have, a social and group focused genre. And this is coming from a person who doesn't like grouping at all and will never use voice chat with strangers. But, even I see that while MMOs are not for me (that is like me being a square trying to fit into a circular hole)...and find other genres far to a better advantage for a solo or (very) small group atmosphere. 

There are MMOs coming out that look to do the old way, like Pantheon is a big one that goes back to the way MMOs were and should be...a group focused, social massive experience one can't find in any genre. That is what MMOs should be.

And this is coming from someone who would never play Pantheon, but Pantheon I really hope is successful because it is playing to the greatest strength of MMOs...social activities, group focused atmosphere and that is what MMOs are about

If we were clones and I had the exact same gaming experiences you've had, I would probably feel exactly the same as you about gaming.  But my gaming background and experiences are different so I can't agree with you on this one.  And I'm sure companies would not like telling solo players to not play their MMO.

Eldurian

I enjoy soloing in MMOs more than playing single player games.

In a single player title, I finish the storyline or complete the content in the world and I'm done. That's it. The skills I've built as a player, everything I've earned, over and done with. If I'm particularly unhappy about that then I can go do all the achievements. Grab all the golden skulltulas or eagle feathers or whatever.

In an MMO, my solo accomplishments feed into the multiplayer aspects. A good MMO doesn't really have a point where you've done everything because player interaction is a source of limitless content.

That's why you can take the exact same content found in a single player game, put it into an MMO, and I'll enjoy more in the MMO than I did in the single player game.

Slapshot1188

Aethaeryn said:

I don't get it when people want to take something away from others because it doesn't fit what they feel something should be.

I barely group in MMOs anymore but I still like the (somewhat) non static world.  I like the odd grind and I like to see different people going about doing their thing.  Some people like to be near or around other people so they will go and read a book in a park instead of their bedroom.  They don't want to interact with anyone.

Having the option to play an MMO solo doesn't take away anything from the players who want to group.  Those players are not available to group but they wouldn't be there if solo wasn't an option anyway.

I DO think that every person should TRY a game that is not solo friendly because it is an amazingly different experience.  Some games to both and make it easy to group for a bit. . or you can do raids if you want or solo easy content. 

I think people should only be allowed to eat Chinese food with chopsticks,  Pro sports should only provide seating for those who are playing.  Restaurants should ONLY serve Coke or Pepsi products and not both. . . wait.

But that's not the analogy I would use.  It's more like someone who wants to go into a stadium filled with people and kick a soccer ball back and forth by himself instead of joining a team because he wants the social aspect of having 50,000 people around him.  Or to use your Chinese food analogy... going into a Chinese food restaurant and complain that it should have pizza because a lot of people like pizza.  And you really want pizza but really like fortune cookies so you want the Chinese restaurant to serve it.

There are games for solo players.  There are games for solo players who want lobby based interaction.  There are games for small groups.  There are games for massive amounts of players.  

Aethaeryn

Slapshot1188 said:

Aethaeryn said:

I don't get it when people want to take something away from others because it doesn't fit what they feel something should be.

I barely group in MMOs anymore but I still like the (somewhat) non static world.  I like the odd grind and I like to see different people going about doing their thing.  Some people like to be near or around other people so they will go and read a book in a park instead of their bedroom.  They don't want to interact with anyone.

Having the option to play an MMO solo doesn't take away anything from the players who want to group.  Those players are not available to group but they wouldn't be there if solo wasn't an option anyway.

I DO think that every person should TRY a game that is not solo friendly because it is an amazingly different experience.  Some games to both and make it easy to group for a bit. . or you can do raids if you want or solo easy content. 

I think people should only be allowed to eat Chinese food with chopsticks,  Pro sports should only provide seating for those who are playing.  Restaurants should ONLY serve Coke or Pepsi products and not both. . . wait.

But that's not the analogy I would use.  It's more like someone who wants to go into a stadium filled with people and kick a soccer ball back and forth by himself instead of joining a team because he wants the social aspect of having 50,000 people around him.  Or to use your Chinese food analogy... going into a Chinese food restaurant and complain that it should have pizza because a lot of people like pizza.  And you really want pizza but really like fortune cookies so you want the Chinese restaurant to serve it.

There are games for solo players.  There are games for solo players who want lobby based interaction.  There are games for small groups.  There are games for massive amounts of players.  

Except in this case the Chinese food place is already offering pizza.  Why petition to have it removed.  There are games that only offer a good experience while grouping and those that offer good solo experiences as well.  Why say they should all require grouping?  And yes, the analogies are horrible. . I meant to add that.

@Eldurian  summed up why I enjoy it.

Slapshot1188

Aethaeryn said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Aethaeryn said:

I don't get it when people want to take something away from others because it doesn't fit what they feel something should be.

I barely group in MMOs anymore but I still like the (somewhat) non static world.  I like the odd grind and I like to see different people going about doing their thing.  Some people like to be near or around other people so they will go and read a book in a park instead of their bedroom.  They don't want to interact with anyone.

Having the option to play an MMO solo doesn't take away anything from the players who want to group.  Those players are not available to group but they wouldn't be there if solo wasn't an option anyway.

I DO think that every person should TRY a game that is not solo friendly because it is an amazingly different experience.  Some games to both and make it easy to group for a bit. . or you can do raids if you want or solo easy content. 

I think people should only be allowed to eat Chinese food with chopsticks,  Pro sports should only provide seating for those who are playing.  Restaurants should ONLY serve Coke or Pepsi products and not both. . . wait.

But that's not the analogy I would use.  It's more like someone who wants to go into a stadium filled with people and kick a soccer ball back and forth by himself instead of joining a team because he wants the social aspect of having 50,000 people around him.  Or to use your Chinese food analogy... going into a Chinese food restaurant and complain that it should have pizza because a lot of people like pizza.  And you really want pizza but really like fortune cookies so you want the Chinese restaurant to serve it.

There are games for solo players.  There are games for solo players who want lobby based interaction.  There are games for small groups.  There are games for massive amounts of players.  

Except in this case the Chinese food place is already offering pizza.  Why petition to have it removed.  There are games that only offer a good experience while grouping and those that offer good solo experiences as well.  Why say they should all require grouping?  And yes, the analogies are horrible. . I meant to add that.

@Eldurian  summed up why I enjoy it.

I misread the OP.  I'm staying out of this thread.

Loke666

I been saying that for years, MMOs advantage is it's social aspect and it should be the main focus of that type of games.

For soloers it is better with a CORPG like Guildwars (1), a game best played with a few friends or by yourself. It is also far cheaper to make and you can give it a better story then a game with an persistent world (all combat zones instanced, shared graphical hubs like cities and outposts).

VengeSunsoar

People play by themselves in parks surrounded by hundreds or thousands of people all the time.

I generally find single player games more boring now including Skyrim. While it is a great game it still feels lonely. MMO games have a different atmosphere even if you never group.

TheScavenger

Keep in mind. Social only does not mean group forced only.

It means something like Ultima Online...EVERY activity (even fishing) can be a social event. In UO there is a fishing boss that requires a certain item to appear and everyone joins in. Some people fish alone, some people fish in groups for a better chance at the item (better just because more people are doing it) and that is a social activity. 

However, in UO unlike say WoW...you can get the best item possible if you build your character a certain way. So that can be a solo activity. however, you can have an easier (and usually more fun) time fighting that boss to get the item as a group or social activity.

In UO, players themselves make events and many mechanics and the way its built really focuses on that social activities between players. But none of it is forced, so someone can literally be a hermit and never talk to anyone and stay in some place in the wilderness with a house all to himself. Granted you'd be surrounded by other houses but point remains...in UO there is so much focus on social activities. But that doesn't mean any of it is forced, and players can do the same activities by themselves if they so choose.

Scorchien

TheScavenger said:

Keep in mind. Social only does not mean group forced only.

It means something like Ultima Online...EVERY activity (even fishing) can be a social event. In UO there is a fishing boss that requires a certain item to appear and everyone joins in. Some people fish alone, some people fish in groups for a better chance at the item (better just because more people are doing it) and that is a social activity. 

However, in UO unlike say WoW...you can get the best item possible if you build your character a certain way. So that can be a solo activity. however, you can have an easier (and usually more fun) time fighting that boss to get the item as a group or social activity.

In UO, players themselves make events and many mechanics and the way its built really focuses on that social activities between players. But none of it is forced, so someone can literally be a hermit and never talk to anyone and stay in some place in the wilderness with a house all to himself. Granted you'd be surrounded by other houses but point remains...in UO there is so much focus on social activities. But that doesn't mean any of it is forced, and players can do the same activities by themselves if they so choose.

No , Sorry there is alot of great challanging content to solo in UO , There is also lots of great challenging content in UO you cant solo

VengeSunsoar

I will say I agree that social things should be encouraged for all activities in an MMO. But not forced and not only.

Dagon13

I agree with the title but not the content.  MMOs should absolutely be about community interaction but thinking that equates to forced grouping is to be ignorant of all the dimensions that an MMO provides.

I'm not talking about combat versus planting potatoes.  I'm talking about how players can drive the experience of others, overall providing everyone with a certain dynamic that doesn't exist in any single player game.  In my opinion, MMOs are wasted on people that don't recognize this feature.  

I also feel that this dynamic has been a crap-shoot lately but I haven't yet decided if it's me or the games.

MrMelGibson

TheScavenger said:

Stuka1000 said:

OP, The mmo's that were built mainly for group only were at a time when the communities were good and a pleasure to be a part of,  MMO was a niche genre and 100k players was considered a success.

Now almost every MMO community is saturated with arseholes and tossers who players like myself want nothing to do with.  The endless search for WoW levels of players and the $$$$ that come with them has turned the genre into a series of cesspits & clones ( with a few exceptions ).  So no to your suggestion.  I would rather play solo than put up with 85% of modern MMO players.

but in this case, why not do what I did; moved on to other genres of games? Aren't games like Civ 5, or Skyrim or many other different games better for a solo experience? In Skyrim, I can mold the game to however I want it to be with mods and its awesome. I even added part of cyrodil to skyrim with mods, so there is a lot more to explore and do.

What I don't understand is why you can't enjoy both? I usually rotate between an mmo, single player game and some kind of single/multiplayer FPS at the same time.  I play each day what I feel like playing.  I don't understand the point of having to choose one or the other.  After all, they aren't mutually exclusive.