Also, in WoW all I did was did raid finder/dungeon finder since that is where the best items were...very small co-op sized groups, but I met many 100s of players over the years. Destiny 2 also lets you do group finders with the potential to meet and interact with 100s of players.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Also, in WoW all I did was did raid finder/dungeon finder since that is where the best items were...very small co-op sized groups, but I met many 100s of players over the years. Destiny 2 also lets you do group finders with the potential to meet and interact with 100s of players.
No one cares what you did personally. If you decided to hang out in the middle of the ocean all day alone in WoW, it doesn't make WoW a single player game. If Istaria has 1 person playing it in total, it doesn't make Istaria a single player game. All of your arguments are stupid beyond belief.
Also, in WoW all I did was did raid finder/dungeon finder since that is where the best items were...very small co-op sized groups, but I met many 100s of players over the years. Destiny 2 also lets you do group finders with the potential to meet and interact with 100s of players.
Also, sure the player can decide to interact in the world in WoW. However, Blizzard designed WoW to be a co-op experience to get the best items. Why purposely nerf yourself just to interact with others? You'll NEVER be worthwhile in WoW without doing co-op groups in WoW and you have to do them a lot to be in the top...the least massively multiplayer experience one can imagine, but WoW is still an MMO.
If blizzard however designed WoW like Everquest 1, where huge groups were required to do raids and it was all open and non-instanced...people arguing that Destiny 2 is NOT on MMO would be correct. However, MMOs these days (mostly themeparks) to get the best items and to be in the top you have to play it as a co-op small group multiplayer game.
Everquest 1 was a real oldschool MMO, and WoW is the first generation new style co-op focused MMO.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
How exactly is Destiny 2 a MMO and not just multiplayer?
I don't see 3 people running instances as Massively Multiplayer in the least.
Where is the logic?
Guess WoW isn't an MMO either if we go by "3 people running instances". WoW has tiny co-op sized groups to do dungeons and just slightly larger for raids (raids however were much larger in vanilla WoW and more a "massively" experience), and its all instanced content unless you want nerfed items found in the world. In fact, most of WoW's gameplay is an instance. If you want to get the best items in WoW, gotta be in an instance and its all co-op groups. No one can interact with anyone else outside that group in WoW.
Completely untrue. In Legion especially, the open world is always well populated with people due to world quests and world bosses.
Yes, but this is solely about instances as in what I quoted by Nilden. Destiny 2 also has open areas where people can all interact, so that then makes it an MMO. So both Destiny 2 and WoW have open areas where lots of people come together, and also both have co-op sized instances.
Destiny 2 has an open, non-instanced world where you can see, group up, interact and adventure with 100's or 1000's of other players? News to me
What does the amount of people have anything to do with it? When I logged onto Istaria (the MMO with a dragon), at usual peak time on a weekend there was only around 20 people logged on. Does that make it not an MMO then since I can't interact with 100s or 1000s of players in istaria?
Same with Ryzom, though Ryzom is a bit more populated than Istaria is.
Yeah, what does the amount of people have to do with anything?
Guys?
Guys?!
If you have to ask what the amount of people has to do with it, in a thread about what it is to be a MMO, there is no point in even having a conversation with someone that clueless.
Would not be surprised to see him start a new thread, what does air have to do with breathing?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Also, in WoW all I did was did raid finder/dungeon finder since that is where the best items were...very small co-op sized groups, but I met many 100s of players over the years. Destiny 2 also lets you do group finders with the potential to meet and interact with 100s of players.
Also, sure the player can decide to interact in the world in WoW.
Not only can they decide to, they do all the time and in great numbers.
However, Blizzard designed WoW to be a co-op experience to get the best items.
If co-op means 20+ players at a time, then yes. And people that don't care about the best items can go and hang out together by the 100s at least if they so desire.
Why purposely nerf yourself just to interact with others? You'll NEVER be worthwhile in WoW without doing co-op groups in WoW and you have to do them a lot to be in the top...the least massively multiplayer experience one can imagine, but WoW is still an MMO.
In mmorpg's, not everyone cares about having the best gear. "Worthwhile"-ness is often not even a factor in many WoW players minds.
How exactly is Destiny 2 a MMO and not just multiplayer?
I don't see 3 people running instances as Massively Multiplayer in the least.
Where is the logic?
Guess WoW isn't an MMO either if we go by "3 people running instances". WoW has tiny co-op sized groups to do dungeons and just slightly larger for raids (raids however were much larger in vanilla WoW and more a "massively" experience), and its all instanced content unless you want nerfed items found in the world. In fact, most of WoW's gameplay is an instance. If you want to get the best items in WoW, gotta be in an instance and its all co-op groups. No one can interact with anyone else outside that group in WoW.
Completely untrue. In Legion especially, the open world is always well populated with people due to world quests and world bosses.
Yes, but this is solely about instances as in what I quoted by Nilden. Destiny 2 also has open areas where people can all interact, so that then makes it an MMO. So both Destiny 2 and WoW have open areas where lots of people come together, and also both have co-op sized instances.
Destiny 2 has an open, non-instanced world where you can see, group up, interact and adventure with 100's or 1000's of other players? News to me
What does the amount of people have anything to do with it? When I logged onto Istaria (the MMO with a dragon), at usual peak time on a weekend there was only around 20 people logged on. Does that make it not an MMO then since I can't interact with 100s or 1000s of players in istaria?
Same with Ryzom, though Ryzom is a bit more populated than Istaria is.
It was a question. Does Destiny 2 have an open, non-instanced world where you can potentially see, group up, interact and adventure with 100's or 1000's of other players?
Not 1000s, no. But that then makes Istaria, Ryzom and many other tiny populated MMOs not MMOs either then if that is what you are implying. Also, who cares about the potential to play with 1000s when most MMOs (especially old ones like Istaria) will never see over 100 let alone even 50. They are still MMOs however despite having such few players, doesn't make them any less MMO.
I love the people that think an MMO is the number of "potential" players...like that is the most useless comment ever. Who cares if the servers can hold 1,000,000 players if there is only 20 people playing.
That is their usual fall back excuse is they then say "potential" when confronted with the new types of MMOs. Like the potential makes up for whatever. That is the only excuse they can come up with when people bring up that Destiny is an MMO and many other games fit the genre as well.
Istaria will never have the potential of hundreds of players, its too old and a dead MMO. Doesn't make it not an MMO though.
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
How exactly is Destiny 2 a MMO and not just multiplayer?
I don't see 3 people running instances as Massively Multiplayer in the least.
Where is the logic?
Guess WoW isn't an MMO either if we go by "3 people running instances". WoW has tiny co-op sized groups to do dungeons and just slightly larger for raids (raids however were much larger in vanilla WoW and more a "massively" experience), and its all instanced content unless you want nerfed items found in the world. In fact, most of WoW's gameplay is an instance. If you want to get the best items in WoW, gotta be in an instance and its all co-op groups. No one can interact with anyone else outside that group in WoW.
Completely untrue. In Legion especially, the open world is always well populated with people due to world quests and world bosses.
Yes, but this is solely about instances as in what I quoted by Nilden. Destiny 2 also has open areas where people can all interact, so that then makes it an MMO. So both Destiny 2 and WoW have open areas where lots of people come together, and also both have co-op sized instances.
Destiny 2 has an open, non-instanced world where you can see, group up, interact and adventure with 100's or 1000's of other players? News to me
What does the amount of people have anything to do with it? When I logged onto Istaria (the MMO with a dragon), at usual peak time on a weekend there was only around 20 people logged on. Does that make it not an MMO then since I can't interact with 100s or 1000s of players in istaria?
Same with Ryzom, though Ryzom is a bit more populated than Istaria is.
It was a question. Does Destiny 2 have an open, non-instanced world where you can potentially see, group up, interact and adventure with 100's or 1000's of other players?
Not 1000s, no. But that then makes Istaria, Ryzom and many other tiny populated MMOs not MMOs either then if that is what you are implying. Also, who cares about the potential to play with 1000s when most MMOs (especially old ones like Istaria) will never see over 100 let alone even 50. They are still MMOs however despite having such few players, doesn't make them any less MMO.
I love the people that think an MMO is the number of "potential" players...like that is the most useless comment ever. Who cares if the servers can hold 1,000,000 players if there is only 20 people playing.
That is their usual fall back excuse is they then say "potential" when confronted with the new types of MMOs. Like the potential makes up for whatever. That is the only excuse they can come up with when people bring up that Destiny is an MMO and many other games fit the genre as well.
Istaria will never have the potential of hundreds of players, its too old and a dead MMO. Doesn't make it not an MMO though.
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
A car can be built to go say 267 mph (a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 according to Google) but its a useless number when in every day, normal use that most people would use it for to get to work/school/travel etc...you have to go a much smaller speed limit. It doesn't matter if the car can go fast, when you can only go a certain speed without risking being pulled over.
Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
If you accept that Call of Duty is an MMORPG, sure.
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
A car can be built to go say 267 mph (a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 according to Google) but its a useless number when in every day, normal use that most people would use it for to get to work/school/travel etc...you have to go a much smaller speed limit. It doesn't matter if the car can go fast, when you can only go a certain speed without risking being pulled over.
Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
A Bugatti doesn't stop being a high-performance sports car when it's driven at average speeds. It's still a high-performance sports car because of its capabilities. A Nissan Sentra, however, will never be a high-performance sports car. And guess what, there are a lot more people driving Nissan Sentra's than Bugatti's. But the defining factor in sports car vs sedan isn't the number of people who own the car, or the typical driving speed, it's the vehicle's capabilities. Destiny 2 is a Nissan Sentra, Istaria is a Bugatti. Capiche?
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
A car can be built to go say 267 mph (a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 according to Google) but its a useless number when in every day, normal use that most people would use it for to get to work/school/travel etc...you have to go a much smaller speed limit. It doesn't matter if the car can go fast, when you can only go a certain speed without risking being pulled over.
Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
A Bugatti doesn't stop being a high-performance sports car when it's driven at average speeds. It's still a high-performance sports car because of its capabilities. A Nissan Sentra, however, will never be a high-performance sports car. And guess what, there are a lot more people driving Nissan Sentra's than Bugatti's. But the defining factor in sports car vs sedan isn't the number of people who own the car, or the typical driving speed, it's the vehicle's capabilities. Destiny 2 is a Nissan Sentra, Istaria is a Bugatti. Capiche?
It still doesn't matter if a car can go 10,000 MPH or 60 if no one can drive it at 10,000 MPH. Like I said, potential is a useless word to make certain people feel better about themselves. Its only meaningful if its actually accurate, not what it could potentially be.
Also, like others have said...Massively, MMORPG.com and many other gaming sites call Destiny 2 an MMO. So right there the argument is over.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
A car can be built to go say 267 mph (a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 according to Google) but its a useless number when in every day, normal use that most people would use it for to get to work/school/travel etc...you have to go a much smaller speed limit. It doesn't matter if the car can go fast, when you can only go a certain speed without risking being pulled over.
Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
A Bugatti doesn't stop being a high-performance sports car when it's driven at average speeds. It's still a high-performance sports car because of its capabilities. A Nissan Sentra, however, will never be a high-performance sports car. And guess what, there are a lot more people driving Nissan Sentra's than Bugatti's. But the defining factor in sports car vs sedan isn't the number of people who own the car, or the typical driving speed, it's the vehicle's capabilities. Destiny 2 is a Nissan Sentra, Istaria is a Bugatti. Capiche?
It still doesn't matter if a car can go 10,000 MPH or 60 if no one can drive it at 10,000 MPH. Like I said, potential is a useless word to make certain people feel better about themselves. Its only meaningful if its actually accurate, not what it could potentially be.
Also, like others have said...Massively, MMORPG.com and many other gaming sites call Destiny 2 an MMO. So right there the argument is over.
No one is trying to feel better about themselves. We simply know how to properly classify things. The fact that Destiny 2 isn't an mmo doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the game.
Some people in this thread would login to an MMO, but be the only person in the entire game and go "wow this is such a great massive multiplayer experience!"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Potential, and more accurately, capability, means everything. If the game isn't capable of supporting 100's to 1000's of players who can all interact in the same space, then it isn't an mmo. The actual population of the particular game is irrelevant. If there is an auditorium capable of holding 1000 people, but only 20 people are there at a particular time, that doesn't change the fact that it's still an auditorium.
A car can be built to go say 267 mph (a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 according to Google) but its a useless number when in every day, normal use that most people would use it for to get to work/school/travel etc...you have to go a much smaller speed limit. It doesn't matter if the car can go fast, when you can only go a certain speed without risking being pulled over.
Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
A Bugatti doesn't stop being a high-performance sports car when it's driven at average speeds. It's still a high-performance sports car because of its capabilities. A Nissan Sentra, however, will never be a high-performance sports car. And guess what, there are a lot more people driving Nissan Sentra's than Bugatti's. But the defining factor in sports car vs sedan isn't the number of people who own the car, or the typical driving speed, it's the vehicle's capabilities. Destiny 2 is a Nissan Sentra, Istaria is a Bugatti. Capiche?
It still doesn't matter if a car can go 10,000 MPH or 60 if no one can drive it at 10,000 MPH. Like I said, potential is a useless word to make certain people feel better about themselves. Its only meaningful if its actually accurate, not what it could potentially be.
Also, like others have said...Massively, MMORPG.com and many other gaming sites call Destiny 2 an MMO. So right there the argument is over.
You're absolutley correct "potential" is a useless word pertaining to this thread. Just replace it with "capability" or "capable".
Some people in this thread would login to an MMO, but be the only person in the entire game and go "wow this is such a great massive multiplayer experience!"
That would be a poor MMO experience. Zero people would think that would be a great MMO experience.
Haven't played Vindictus but mislabeled games are mislabeled. Calling your game an MMO doesn't make it so.
DDO is open world with the capacity to host a massive number of players in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Haven't played Vindictus but mislabeled games are mislabeled. Calling your game an MMO doesn't make it so.
DDO is open world in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Calling a game NOT an MMO, does not make it so either.
Sorry, but if Steam and multiple sites call something an MMO (even Massively and MMORPG.com), and vast majority of people call it an MMO, then its an MMO. Argument over. Anyone against it is going against the wave of change, and not able to handle it because they want "oldschool" MMOs that are quickly dying out. The people here on MMORPG.com are in the vast minority of oldschool MMOers, and most people already moved on to other genres or new types of MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Haven't played Vindictus but mislabeled games are mislabeled. Calling your game an MMO doesn't make it so.
DDO is open world in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Calling a game NOT an MMO, does not make it so either.
Sorry, but if Steam and multiple sites call something an MMO, and vast majority of people call it an MMO, then its an MMO. Argument over. Anyone against it is going against the wave of change, and not able to handle it because they want "oldschool" MMOs that are quickly dying out. The people here on MMORPG.com are in the vast minority of oldschool MMOers, and most people already moved on to other genres or new types of MMOs.
The really silly thing is that Bungie doesn't even call Destiny an MMO. LOL
Haven't played Vindictus but mislabeled games are mislabeled. Calling your game an MMO doesn't make it so.
DDO is open world in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Calling a game NOT an MMO, does not make it so either.
Sorry, but if Steam and multiple sites call something an MMO, and vast majority of people call it an MMO, then its an MMO. Argument over. Anyone against it is going against the wave of change, and not able to handle it because they want "oldschool" MMOs that are quickly dying out. The people here on MMORPG.com are in the vast minority of oldschool MMOers, and most people already moved on to other genres or new types of MMOs.
The really silly thing is that Destiny doesn't even call itself an MMO. LOL
MMORPG.com calls it an MMO. Massively calls it that. Multiple sites call it that. The vast majority of people outside of mmorpg.com call it that. Majority wins.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Haven't played Vindictus but mislabeled games are mislabeled. Calling your game an MMO doesn't make it so.
DDO is open world in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Calling a game NOT an MMO, does not make it so either.
Sorry, but if Steam and multiple sites call something an MMO, and vast majority of people call it an MMO, then its an MMO. Argument over. Anyone against it is going against the wave of change, and not able to handle it because they want "oldschool" MMOs that are quickly dying out. The people here on MMORPG.com are in the vast minority of oldschool MMOers, and most people already moved on to other genres or new types of MMOs.
The really silly thing is that Destiny doesn't even call itself an MMO. LOL
MMORPG.com calls it an MMO. Massively calls it that. Multiple sites call it that. The vast majority of people outside of mmorpg.com call it that. Majority wins.
LOL. Sorry bro, you don't have any evidence of having the majority opinion and even if you did, being in the majority opinion does not make it true. That fallacy should be obvious.
Lets see some evidence that the majority opinion is that it's an MMO. If you can't provide that, you should probably just give up your rage-filled crusade to argue about something as stupid as a genre definition.
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My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
If blizzard however designed WoW like Everquest 1, where huge groups were required to do raids and it was all open and non-instanced...people arguing that Destiny 2 is NOT on MMO would be correct. However, MMOs these days (mostly themeparks) to get the best items and to be in the top you have to play it as a co-op small group multiplayer game.
Everquest 1 was a real oldschool MMO, and WoW is the first generation new style co-op focused MMO.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Would not be surprised to see him start a new thread, what does air have to do with breathing?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Potential is just a useless word that means nothing.
Destiny 2 will have FAR more players on PC and has far more players on console playing it than Istaria will ever have...so that is a truly massive multiplayer experience.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Also, like others have said...Massively, MMORPG.com and many other gaming sites call Destiny 2 an MMO. So right there the argument is over.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Being like WoW doesn't make a game an MMO. WoW is an MMO because of the open world areas, not its instances, or the way gear progression works.
Take away the open world areas and it's not an MMO anymore. Period.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Vindictus isn't open world, its tons of instances and small co-op sized groups. Its an MMO, says it straight on Steam in the description.
Dungeons and Dragons Online isn't an open world, its even more tons of instances and small groups and its an MMO
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
DDO is open world with the capacity to host a massive number of players in the towns as I recall. If you are running through a town you can encounter anyone else in the same town. So it at least has a leg to stand on in the debate it is an MMO. Destiny does not.
Sorry, but if Steam and multiple sites call something an MMO (even Massively and MMORPG.com), and vast majority of people call it an MMO, then its an MMO. Argument over. Anyone against it is going against the wave of change, and not able to handle it because they want "oldschool" MMOs that are quickly dying out. The people here on MMORPG.com are in the vast minority of oldschool MMOers, and most people already moved on to other genres or new types of MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Lets see some evidence that the majority opinion is that it's an MMO. If you can't provide that, you should probably just give up your rage-filled crusade to argue about something as stupid as a genre definition.