Jesus Christ folks, it was a quote from the interview itself. People have been using quotes as titles long before click bait was even a term. No offense, but you guys bring on like half the hate you see by constantly playing the victim.
Go ahead and ask Eurogamer to start naming their articles with boring ass titles like "Star Citizen Interview #23" and see what they say.
It hit weird in a way, it felt like SC is launching a new stage of development, like SC's Beta with 3.0, until you read the whole thing xD
Jesus Christ folks, it was a quote from the interview itself. People have been using quotes as titles long before click bait was even a term. No offense, but you guys bring on like half the hate you see by constantly playing the victim.
Go ahead and ask Eurogamer to start naming their articles with boring ass titles like "Star Citizen Interview #23" and see what they say.
The quote is weird in a way, it felt to imply SC is a new stage of development, like SC's Beta but it's nothing but what they already do.
Like early access for SC is starting with 3.0, what is rather weird is already is xD
Not sure I follow, the quote didn't seem to imply a new stage to me. Well, taken alone anyways.
Do you mean the quote in the context of the interview?
There is no spin. They have reached a point where whatever they got they are calling early access and moving forward to release. What you see now is what you are going to get.
Not sure I follow, the quote didn't seem to imply a new stage to me. Well, taken alone anyways.
Do you mean the quote in the context of the interview?
I clarified the text, when I read it what hit me is that "wait 3.0 is SC's beta now?!" that's the first thing I got from it before I read the answer because of the "early access launch".
Though they are just doing the same they've been doing, updating the alpha.
CR- I am fed up of giving someone an estimate. Which is why 2 days after saying the very same thing at Gamescom he went and gave people estimates....
Just because he's "fed up" doesn't mean that he's unwilling to do it, especially if it makes sense to do so. He's just "tired" of people asking.
I'm fed up with going to work every day but I do it.
Well if he spends the whole year not giving dates, makes comments about how he gets vilified for dates, says how much he shouldn't do it and then still goes and does it....
Personally I couldn't care less if he's tired of it, that falls entirely on him for not being able to give good estimated dates.
You don't seriously believe that CR is creating the dates do you? At the end of the day he is simply the front for the team - unless you buy into him making the entire game all by himself of course.
When they unvieled the schedule for 3.0 the point was made that the team had put down what they could deliver for the end of June. And OK they added the caveat that it was an agressive schedule so some wiggle room.
I think we can be sure though that what CR is really "tired with" is the team given dates that they keep missing, or giving dates knowing that they are bug fixing some other stuff so won't be able to deliver on their dates etc.
And its a problem that a lot of indies / kickstarters have (even some KSs launched by companies that want to test the viabiity of a new product).
To get "better" they would have to have top level project management supported by e.g. embedded scheduling/contingency/risk management/project management types who also know what the teams are doing. Which would cost money and would add time (so more money). The reason it would add time is that effort would have to be given to getting the dates "better".
So people are just giving out what they "feel" they can achieve. And - no surprise - they are optimistic. And - ironically - being optimistic is probably better than having them becoming pessimistic - which creates a whole other set of problems!
It is what it is. However:
Maybe they should consult with the Evocaati communiy. I can understand not wanting to check through bug reports and find that you knew and were fixinng these and that maybe its "not fair" to have the community "waste time" finding bugs you know about but ........ I think it has to go to them "sooner" rather than "later".
Where do you draw a line in the sand between alpha, beta, Early Access? Are they just labels?
CR: I feel like they're just labels
"You're getting in there at a much cheaper rate than when it's finished
and you can maybe help us define how we operate".
I thought all these videos, transparency, and laundry list of things the backers wanted was to help them define how they operate?
"I think even if we
said, this is now past beta, the paradigm for online stuff just doesn't
work that way now".
Is he saying kick starter companies making commitments they cant keep is the norm so we are going to do the same?
"You see it all the time. League of Legends continues
to add new heroes, even more traditional stuff like World of Warcraft
has revisions every year".
Is he saying LoL is in the same state as SC? Where are the SC esport events I watch on Twitch all the time.....
"Even if we said, 'we're released', we're never
going to stop adding content. That's how online games die. If you look
at EVE Online now, it looks nothing like the game which launched. GTA
Online, too, it originally launched on PS3 and Xbox 360 which aren't
even supported now, they're constantly adding new stuff to it. Maybe
people need to shift their point of view - the way I look at it on Star
Citizen, if you get involved it's not going to be completely polished or
finished but you'll get your voice heard. It's not for everyone, of
course - you can always take a back seat for a year or two and reassess
it".
Why after how many missed dates and broken commitments do the backers now have to shift their point of view? It was SC and friends who created that point of view with all their hype. Now it seems it take what we got and maybe sometime in the future we will sell you what we promised as an expansion.
Why after how many missed dates and broken commitments do the backers now have to shift their point of view? It was SC and friends who created that point of view with all their hype. Now it seems it take what we got and maybe sometime in the future we will sell you what we promised as an expansion.
It's a constant claim, SC as one online game, especially of the MMO nature will only stop adding features/content in updates the moment it dies. And we know this to be true.
Is why it's not the biggest deal what in by or after the release of the game, especially if they do it as normal updates, because they have a microtransaction monetization model (and SQ42 sequels), unlike ED that had to go with paid expansions.
You can see neither the release, neither the beta is imposing here, they just keep developing and going through the hell lot of stuff they have to work on, whatever will be in the release of the game I think they don't know, they'll know once they get there (deciding what they have justifies it).
Why after how many missed dates and broken commitments do the backers now have to shift their point of view? It was SC and friends who created that point of view with all their hype. Now it seems it take what we got and maybe sometime in the future we will sell you what we promised as an expansion.
It's a constant claim, SC as one online game, especially of the MMO nature will only stop adding features/content in updates the moment it dies. And we know this to be true.
Is why it's not the biggest deal what in by or after the release of the game, especially if they do it as normal updates, because they have a microtransaction monetization model (and SQ42 sequels), unlike ED that had to go with paid expansions.
You can see neither the release, neither the beta is imposing here, they just keep developing and going through the hell lot of stuff they have to work on, whatever will be in the release of the game I think they don't know, they'll know once they get there (deciding what they have justifies it).
If they don't yet know where or what the release of the game should be or have by now then you should seriously be shaking your head right now and questioning upper management and if they have any clue at all or are just throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks
731 members in this Reddit group. They call themselves "leavers".
Number of Star Citizens: 1,875,367
Number of paying backers was over half a million 1.5 years ago according to a CIG contractor, so today it is in my opinion anywhere between 500.000 and 1.000.000.
That suggests a percentage of refunds of around 0.1 % ish
Why after how many missed dates and broken commitments do the backers now have to shift their point of view? It was SC and friends who created that point of view with all their hype. Now it seems it take what we got and maybe sometime in the future we will sell you what we promised as an expansion.
It's a constant claim, SC as one online game, especially of the MMO nature will only stop adding features/content in updates the moment it dies. And we know this to be true.
Is why it's not the biggest deal what in by or after the release of the game, especially if they do it as normal updates, because they have a microtransaction monetization model (and SQ42 sequels), unlike ED that had to go with paid expansions.
You can see neither the release, neither the beta is imposing here, they just keep developing and going through the hell lot of stuff they have to work on, whatever will be in the release of the game I think they don't know, they'll know once they get there (deciding what they have justifies it).
Alpha is the stage of development where features are added and/or removed.
Beta is the stage where it is feature complete, but needs bug fix's and polish.
Early Access is the stage where fixing/finding bugs and polish is still taking place, but you can play the game before it officially releases to the masses.
CR saying 3.0 is akin to EA, is CR basically claiming the game is feature complete, and only needs bug fixing and polish, to be ready for official release.
As I said earlier, what a joke.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Early Access would imply the game had at least progressed to beta, when it does not yet have a working alpha version, if anything its a Pre-Alpha, some bits are working, but its not complete.
I was lucky to manage to get refund. It was just as the first Derek Smart attacks started against Roberts wife being made CEO.
It was not easy and I quoted that game failed to be released in promised period ( this was over 2 and half year ago ) - and I got angry email from Roberts wife personally.
But on the end they buckled and refunded me.
Shortly after that they made new rule that no money will be refunded. So I was lucky.
But back to topic ... early access
I guess the pledges are starting to dry out. So now they are just going for regular Early Access scheme ....
731 members in this Reddit group. They call themselves "leavers".
Number of Star Citizens: 1,875,367
Number of paying backers was over half a million 1.5 years ago according to a CIG contractor, so today it is in my opinion anywhere between 500.000 and 1.000.000.
That suggests a percentage of refunds of around 0.1 % ish
Have fun
It's just human nature.
Unhappy people complain loudly and constantly. They have a grievance that they want addressed.
Happy people don't go around loudly telling everyone how happy they are. They just get on with enjoying whatever it is they're happy with.
Happy people are generally invisible, until the the complaining activists manage to get something changed. Then the previously happy ones become unhappy and start complaining...
Well the SC subreddit has 100,000+ subscribers and the refund subreddit only has 700+ subscribers so it can't really be just a case of unhappy people complaining loudly and constantly.
Well the SC subreddit has 100,000+ subscribers and the refund subreddit only has 700+ subscribers so it can't really be just a case of unhappy people complaining loudly and constantly.
But it is, lol
The "leavers" are so motivated to complain that they even created their own subreddit !
They want to be "visible", but in the 100K mass they simply vanish. So they split off by themselves to get more attention.
Well the SC subreddit has 100,000+ subscribers and the refund subreddit only has 700+ subscribers so it can't really be just a case of unhappy people complaining loudly and constantly.
But it is, lol
The "leavers" are so motivated to complain that they even created their own subreddit !
They want to be "visible", but in the 100K mass they simply vanish. So they split off by themselves to get more attention.
What do you mean 'but it is'? I don't see these guys advertising themselves anywhere. It feels like far too much of a generalisation.
Yes they want to be visible because it makes it easier for others to find out the process if they also want to seek a refund, there's nothing inherently bad with that. Obviously some of the reason is to make noise (within their sub), some of it to slag off the company with likeminded individuals, some of it so that they can discuss things and not get bombed with downvotes (which is what happens in the normal subreddit).
CIG provide refunds but if you try mentioning an officially provided service in the SC subreddit you get vote bombed into oblivion so I'm not surprised they made their own sub.
This is correct. Basically to have a good comparsion you need to compare the site views of the reddits and subtract the unhappy reddit from the happy reddit (because unhappy is more likely to read happy than otherwise). Because unhappy customer is louder, their word weights 10+ times more than happy customer. And the worse thing that can happen to you is unhappy customer who goes on a crusade they will scare off 100s if not 1000s of potential happy customers.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
If they don't yet know where or what the release of the game should be or have by now then you should seriously be shaking your head right now and questioning upper management and if they have any clue at all or are just throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks
For sure they have one idea but what I mean is, it's not imposing, it's not feature-locked, much less design-locked, the game is still at a stage where most of its features as content and professions are not in, so that would be their focus now before we'll hear of something like SC's Beta.
CR saying 3.0 is akin to EA, is CR basically claiming the game is feature complete, and only needs bug fixing and polish, to be ready for official release.
As I said earlier, what a joke.
Games on Early Access are on all stages of development, from pre-alphas, to alphas, betas or even open-beta tests (like Destiny 2 and so. It doesn't imply anything towards the status of the game, if you read the response, moving from Alpha to Beta.
Maybe, just maybe they created a 'leavers' reddit thread so not to be subject to the SC SJW like fanaticism.
In fairness it's a good idea, it gives people the chance to look at 2 different viewpoints without having to be drawn into a flame thread, as has happened when someone has voiced displeasure over SC in the main reddit thread in the past.
Lets face it there are some crazy as fuck SC related reddit's, the one that dedicated to Derek Smart makes a sad commentary on the levels some individual's will lower themselves based on hate. Thats something you don't want in a more pure reddit that's discussing SC.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Maybe, just maybe they created a 'leavers' reddit thread so not to be subject to the SC SJW like fanaticism.
You forget this stuff is highly driven by Goons. You can go on rants all day long and throw insults in all directions, something that would never fly in the main SC communities, making it a safe place for people who wish to do that.
Some people there are more emotionally attached to SC than the majority of its fans, it's just plain weird to watch...
In the DS sub, you also find this same unhealthy obsessive behavior.
I don't know about other people but I happen to feel the right to express your opinion is an important thing, providing it doesn't enter the realms of hate speech or a call for violence. Just because people are expressing an opinion that we don't like or agree with does not mean they should not be allowed to do so.
So these people discussing things amongst themselves in their own subreddit is fine by me.
Comments
Do you mean the quote in the context of the interview?
Though they are just doing the same they've been doing, updating the alpha.
When they unvieled the schedule for 3.0 the point was made that the team had put down what they could deliver for the end of June. And OK they added the caveat that it was an agressive schedule so some wiggle room.
I think we can be sure though that what CR is really "tired with" is the team given dates that they keep missing, or giving dates knowing that they are bug fixing some other stuff so won't be able to deliver on their dates etc.
And its a problem that a lot of indies / kickstarters have (even some KSs launched by companies that want to test the viabiity of a new product).
To get "better" they would have to have top level project management supported by e.g. embedded scheduling/contingency/risk management/project management types who also know what the teams are doing. Which would cost money and would add time (so more money). The reason it would add time is that effort would have to be given to getting the dates "better".
So people are just giving out what they "feel" they can achieve. And - no surprise - they are optimistic. And - ironically - being optimistic is probably better than having them becoming pessimistic - which creates a whole other set of problems!
It is what it is. However:
Maybe they should consult with the Evocaati communiy. I can understand not wanting to check through bug reports and find that you knew and were fixinng these and that maybe its "not fair" to have the community "waste time" finding bugs you know about but ........ I think it has to go to them "sooner" rather than "later".
CR: I feel like they're just labels
"You're getting in there at a much cheaper rate than when it's finished and you can maybe help us define how we operate".
I thought all these videos, transparency, and laundry list of things the backers wanted was to help them define how they operate?
"I think even if we said, this is now past beta, the paradigm for online stuff just doesn't work that way now".
Is he saying kick starter companies making commitments they cant keep is the norm so we are going to do the same?
"You see it all the time. League of Legends continues to add new heroes, even more traditional stuff like World of Warcraft has revisions every year".
Is he saying LoL is in the same state as SC? Where are the SC esport events I watch on Twitch all the time.....
"Even if we said, 'we're released', we're never going to stop adding content. That's how online games die. If you look at EVE Online now, it looks nothing like the game which launched. GTA Online, too, it originally launched on PS3 and Xbox 360 which aren't even supported now, they're constantly adding new stuff to it. Maybe people need to shift their point of view - the way I look at it on Star Citizen, if you get involved it's not going to be completely polished or finished but you'll get your voice heard. It's not for everyone, of course - you can always take a back seat for a year or two and reassess it".
Why after how many missed dates and broken commitments do the backers now have to shift their point of view? It was SC and friends who created that point of view with all their hype. Now it seems it take what we got and maybe sometime in the future we will sell you what we promised as an expansion.
Is why it's not the biggest deal what in by or after the release of the game, especially if they do it as normal updates, because they have a microtransaction monetization model (and SQ42 sequels), unlike ED that had to go with paid expansions.
You can see neither the release, neither the beta is imposing here, they just keep developing and going through the hell lot of stuff they have to work on, whatever will be in the release of the game I think they don't know, they'll know once they get there (deciding what they have justifies it).
the refund section of reddit is chiming in with some great remarks on CR's interview
Number of Star Citizens: 1,875,367
Number of paying backers was over half a million 1.5 years ago according to a CIG contractor, so today it is in my opinion anywhere between 500.000 and 1.000.000.
That suggests a percentage of refunds of around 0.1 % ish
Have fun
Beta is the stage where it is feature complete, but needs bug fix's and polish.
Early Access is the stage where fixing/finding bugs and polish is still taking place, but you can play the game before it officially releases to the masses.
CR saying 3.0 is akin to EA, is CR basically claiming the game is feature complete, and only needs bug fixing and polish, to be ready for official release.
As I said earlier, what a joke.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Have fun
It was not easy and I quoted that game failed to be released in promised period ( this was over 2 and half year ago ) - and I got angry email from Roberts wife personally.
But on the end they buckled and refunded me.
Shortly after that they made new rule that no money will be refunded. So I was lucky.
But back to topic ... early access
I guess the pledges are starting to dry out. So now they are just going for regular Early Access scheme ....
Unhappy people complain loudly and constantly. They have a grievance that they want addressed.
Happy people don't go around loudly telling everyone how happy they are. They just get on with enjoying whatever it is they're happy with.
Happy people are generally invisible, until the the complaining activists manage to get something changed. Then the previously happy ones become unhappy and start complaining...
The "leavers" are so motivated to complain that they even created their own subreddit !
They want to be "visible", but in the 100K mass they simply vanish. So they split off by themselves to get more attention.
What do you mean 'but it is'? I don't see these guys advertising themselves anywhere. It feels like far too much of a generalisation.
Yes they want to be visible because it makes it easier for others to find out the process if they also want to seek a refund, there's nothing inherently bad with that.
Obviously some of the reason is to make noise (within their sub), some of it to slag off the company with likeminded individuals, some of it so that they can discuss things and not get bombed with downvotes (which is what happens in the normal subreddit).
CIG provide refunds but if you try mentioning an officially provided service in the SC subreddit you get vote bombed into oblivion so I'm not surprised they made their own sub.
Basically to have a good comparsion you need to compare the site views of the reddits and subtract the unhappy reddit from the happy reddit (because unhappy is more likely to read happy than otherwise).
Because unhappy customer is louder, their word weights 10+ times more than happy customer.
And the worse thing that can happen to you is unhappy customer who goes on a crusade they will scare off 100s if not 1000s of potential happy customers.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Games on Early Access are on all stages of development, from pre-alphas, to alphas, betas or even open-beta tests (like Destiny 2 and so. It doesn't imply anything towards the status of the game, if you read the response, moving from Alpha to Beta.
To me it seems even the "negative reports" had the effect of increased visibility and ultimately a positive promotional effect.
Have fun
In fairness it's a good idea, it gives people the chance to look at 2 different viewpoints without having to be drawn into a flame thread, as has happened when someone has voiced displeasure over SC in the main reddit thread in the past.
Lets face it there are some crazy as fuck SC related reddit's, the one that dedicated to Derek Smart makes a sad commentary on the levels some individual's will lower themselves based on hate. Thats something you don't want in a more pure reddit that's discussing SC.
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Some people there are more emotionally attached to SC than the majority of its fans, it's just plain weird to watch...
In the DS sub, you also find this same unhealthy obsessive behavior.
I don't know about other people but I happen to feel the right to express your opinion is an important thing, providing it doesn't enter the realms of hate speech or a call for violence.
Just because people are expressing an opinion that we don't like or agree with does not mean they should not be allowed to do so.
So these people discussing things amongst themselves in their own subreddit is fine by me.