Pantheon doing level scaling? Seriously?

Dvora

Just heard this is a thing.   Cannot believe the devs are going with this current trend cop-out.  Someone please tell me I heard wrong.

Iselin

First thing they've done that has interested me.

I've heard all the pros and cons of level scaling and have played MMOs with and without them and to me, keeping all content relevant at all levels makes more sense than discarding whole chunks of games as you level-up.

Better get used to it because they'll all be going that way.

Albatroes

Wow, they're really doing level scaling? Link? If they seriously are, this just might put me on the fence instead of mostly interested. Wow is currently doing this with legion and there's rumors it might extend to the entire game in the next expansion. Personally, I dont like the scaling. True you can pretty much stay in a zone for however long you like and it might make certain zones seem more populated but honestly it has the same effect to a degree as just having zones with certain levels since there's always going to be dead zones. Plus most importantly, you really do lose out on that sense of feeling stronger when you go back to lower level zones and just one shot stuff.

Thebeasttt

This is a horrible idea. Not only does it remind players of the rampant themepark hand holding these days but it completely destroys immersion. Want to get stronger so you can take on the storm giants? No problem! Just run there at level 1 and kill them.

Iselin

Albatroes said:

True you can pretty much stay in a zone for however long you like and it might make certain zones seem more populated but honestly it has the same effect to a degree as just having zones with certain levels since there's always going to be dead zones.

That's not true if done right. In ESO for example, the mobs in each zone drop 3 unique to that zone gear sets at whatver "true level" the player getting the drop happens to be: they can be useful while leveling just as much as they are at the gear level cap. They are also BOE so they can be sold for profit if it's not something you want to use yourself.

Sure, some zones continue to be more popular because the 3 gear sets that drop there are more highly sought after. But there are no dead zones at all and they use their metrics to constantly do slight buffs/nerfs to those world-drop gear sets to try to make them all desirable. 

That's not the only way to do it but it IS a way to do it that keeps all zones relevant.

 Plus most importantly, you really do lose out on that sense of feeling stronger when you go back to lower level zones and just one shot stuff.

Yup but that's really old, stale design. It's much better to sprinkle in mobs of different difficulty all in the same area. This gives all zones a mix of faceroll, really tough content and everything else in between.

Besides the scaling does not mean everyone is 100% equal. True high level players will still have a much easier time than scaled low level players in the same zones due to better skills that are still acquired over time, better gear and more experience. This is very much the case in ESO where I see brand new low level players dying in fights with a single mob where I can wipe 5 of those at once without breaking a sweat at max level. That feeling of being stronger is alive and well despite the level scaling.

jpedrote52

They are not doing full level scaling, it's a mentor system that scales you down to your friends level, if you wish, to keep the content somewhat challenging while playing with lower level players, but you'll not earn any XP or get any type of progression while you're doing it. And since it's an optional systems you'll not be scaled automatically only if you want to.

Wellspring

OP, what's your source?

Mendel

I, too, would like to see where this information is coming from.

Sovrath

Wellspring said:

OP, what's your source?

This.

MadFrenchie

Iselin said:

First thing they've done that has interested me.

I've heard all the pros and cons of level scaling and have played MMOs with and without them and to me, keeping all content relevant at all levels makes more sense than discarding whole chunks of games as you level-up.

Better get used to it because they'll all be going that way.

I like the way GW2 does it much better than ESO, though.  Scales you down to make lower level zones still present a challenge, but you don't scale up to meet the levels of higher creatures.  Encourages a coherent progression through content without discouraging a revisit of lower level zones if there's an event, quest, or POI you wanna do.

It was enough to turn me off of ESO completely in favor of GW2.

dcutbi001

I follow Pantheon pretty closely, and this has never been something they have indicated they were doing. In fact, it pretty much goes against everything the game is about. 

As jpedrote52 mentioned, they are going to have a mentor system that scales a character down to the level of the person they are mentoring, but they are making it a point to say that the scaled down character will not have much more of an advantage than any other character of the same level. If anything, that makes the world a more dangerous place for any of the higher level players that decide to mentor. Mobs are not going to scale, and player levels are not going to scale up.

I'm not sure what your source is, but I suspect you either misunderstood what they were saying, or the source was just flat out wrong. 

I was able to tolerate ESO for a couple weeks, but the level scaling alone ruined that game for me. Pantheon is all about danger, and having to be cautious of your surroundings and environment. If mobs scaled to the players level is would destroy that entire premise. It's not something they are doing. 

Sovrath

I personally don't like level scaling. But I also don't believe in "noob zones" or at least keeping that to a minimum.

I like the idea of entering a zone and having something huge and very dangerous out there looking for me.

Probably one of the reasons I loved leveling in the Sea of Spores in Lineage 2.

dcutbi001

Sovrath said:

I personally don't like level scaling. But I also don't believe in "noob zones" or at least keeping that to a minimum.

I like the idea of entering a zone and having something huge and very dangerous out there looking for me.

Probably one of the reasons I loved leveling in the Sea of Spores in Lineage 2.

If that's the kind of thing you like, expect to like that about Pantheon. It'll be like EQ in that regard where, even in many of the lower level zones, there will be big nasties running around, and higher level players will have to show up and take them out. It gives the higher level players a reason to visit the lower level zones, and it lets the lower level players watch the higher leveled player at work allowing them to be inspired to keep pushing.

Thebeasttt

Mentoring is fine, as long as the mentor's stats are not inflated. I guess this was clickbait then

Sovrath

dcutbi001 said:

Sovrath said:

I personally don't like level scaling. But I also don't believe in "noob zones" or at least keeping that to a minimum.

I like the idea of entering a zone and having something huge and very dangerous out there looking for me.

Probably one of the reasons I loved leveling in the Sea of Spores in Lineage 2.

If that's the kind of thing you like, expect to like that about Pantheon. It'll be like EQ in that regard where, even in many of the lower level zones, there will be big nasties running around, and higher level players will have to show up and take them out. It gives the higher level players a reason to visit the lower level zones, and it lets the lower level players watch the higher leveled player at work allowing them to be inspired to keep pushing.

I've been following Pantheon and it's the only mmorpg. that I'm truly excited about. Well, there aren't a lot on the horizong, but I'm prepared to leave Black Desert and forgo Bless (when it comes out) for Pantheon.

Dragon's Dogma Online might be a contender if it ever came here.

Kilsin

We are not instancing or level scaling, we will have a Mentor system that allows players of different levels to lower themselves to the lowest level player to group up and play together at appropriate levels, it is optional and just a way for high level players to play with low level friends/family and new players without steamrolling everything.

MadCoderOne

Kilsin said:

We are not instancing or level scaling, we will have a Mentor system that allows players of different levels to lower themselves to the lowest level player to group up and play together at appropriate levels, it is optional and just a way for high level players to play with low level friends/family and new players without steamrolling everything.

Kilsin said:

We are not instancing or level scaling, we will have a Mentor system that allows players of different levels to lower themselves to the lowest level player to group up and play together at appropriate levels, it is optional and just a way for high level players to play with low level friends/family and new players without steamrolling everything.

as a person without as much playtime as my friends, I want this very much and it will keep me as a longtime paying customer. So thank you.

MadFrenchie

Kilsin said:

We are not instancing or level scaling, we will have a Mentor system that allows players of different levels to lower themselves to the lowest level player to group up and play together at appropriate levels, it is optional and just a way for high level players to play with low level friends/family and new players without steamrolling everything.

I'm okay with downscaling, as it keeps the lower level areas relevant (so long as there are resources of value there) and, as you said, provides opportunities to play with friends not as far into the game.

Not a huge fan of boosting, as I feel it cheapens the sense of progression, which I enjoy in my MMORPGs.  I like that you're not including that kind of scaling.

Albatroes

Kilsin said:

We are not instancing or level scaling, we will have a Mentor system that allows players of different levels to lower themselves to the lowest level player to group up and play together at appropriate levels, it is optional and just a way for high level players to play with low level friends/family and new players without steamrolling everything.

Excellent to hear. Lol I'm back to being all in again.

Scorchien

DMKano said:

The OP is mistaken about Pantheon.

I abhor level scaling in PvE, its the main reason I cant stand GW2 and ESO PvE.

Any MMO that has level scaling.... I have zero interest.

Good thing Pantheon isnt doing that crap.

I am a huge fan of swarming and mass killing lower level areas when you get mad gear and are in godmode basically.

  Yea , cause kickin kittens is fun ..........

Albatroes

Scorchien said:

DMKano said:

The OP is mistaken about Pantheon.

I abhor level scaling in PvE, its the main reason I cant stand GW2 and ESO PvE.

Any MMO that has level scaling.... I have zero interest.

Good thing Pantheon isnt doing that crap.

I am a huge fan of swarming and mass killing lower level areas when you get mad gear and are in godmode basically.

  Yea , cause kickin kittens is fun ..........

If those kittens transform into hideous spike covered creatures when you aggro/attack them like those boars in Hellfire Peninsula of BC WoW then yes, yes it can be fun. Hopefully they have mobs like that btw.

goboygo

Despise level scaling, sucks the immersion right out of my MMO

ConstantineMerus

Sovrath said:

I like the idea of entering a zone and having something huge and very dangerous out there looking for me.

This floored me, for the wrong reasons!! XD

Wizardry

So levels but no levels ..makes NO SENSE.
This would be an idea i 100% would not play,i want the world to have an identity and not some endless loop to become a dungeon looter.
Ever heard of the great White Dragon,,oh yeah he is that really tough creature our level 75 group had a tough time beating,,oh wait we just beat him with our level 1 group....sigh.

It turns every last creature/npc into a level 1 meaningless entity,just some target for loot.

waynejr2

DMKano said:

The OP is mistaken about Pantheon.

I abhor level scaling in PvE, its the main reason I cant stand GW2 and ESO PvE.

Any MMO that has level scaling.... I have zero interest.

Good thing Pantheon isnt doing that crap.

I am a huge fan of swarming and mass killing lower level areas when you get mad gear and are in godmode basically.

I believe that level scaling is an anathema to RPGs.  Hate it.  I too hated GW2 and ESO.

lahnmir

Wizardry said:

So levels but no levels ..makes NO SENSE.
This would be an idea i 100% would not play,i want the world to have an identity and not some endless loop to become a dungeon looter.
Ever heard of the great White Dragon,,oh yeah he is that really tough creature our level 75 group had a tough time beating,,oh wait we just beat him with our level 1 group....sigh.

It turns every last creature/npc into a level 1 meaningless entity,just some target for loot.

Fortunately for you, they are not doing that then. You could have known by reading the thread you know... but off you went on some train of thought/verbal diarreah post without bothering to look what was going on in the first place.

Surprise, surprise.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir