I haven't played a single game on this list lol. I mean, say what you want about Trion, Rift certainly should have been somewhere on this list. Star Wars Galaxies? I cannot stand the sci fi genre.
Rift has always been considered a WoW clone. The class/skill system is different... but beyond that...?
Well, I consider Black Desert an ArcheAge clone, but then again, both of these games are not on this list. I played Rift, and I had fun in it, and I do think it's unique from WoW. I wouldn't expect someone who plays SWTOR to understand.
SWTOR is very much a WoW clone too in most regards. It might be a flavor I liked better than the original in some ways, but gameplay wise it's very clear where they got all their inspiration. Hell, they even copied WoW's later updates. Since you're getting all huffy, notice I never called Rift a bad game. Just one that never managed to add something so amazing to have had a huge impact on the genre. And neither AA nor BDO have taken the sandbox genre to new heights, hence me not claiming either should be on the list. Unlike some people on this site, I don't automatically claim that the games I personally enjoy are the best thing since sliced bread. Shocking, I know.
PS: the same applies to sci fi btw. Too bad for you.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
With these lists, you almost need two lists. Best oldschool and best 'modern.' There are many old school ppl who cannot see beyond the early years and fail to see the changes as positive. This skews things a bit because of a lack of impartiality.
It's not that the older games are bad or that the newer games are good. It's more a question of sentimentality. They're still neat lists though, and I always look to see whether mine made the cut. Most...... only most!!
*Rift for the dynamic content that lead a community to work together.
*Asherons Call for the crafting which built a community.
*Lineage that gave alliances meaning.
Sorry, but EQ and UO kicks WoW's butt! WoW the Greatest? No way...Most profitable?...yes. So it seems you posted WoW based on Profit. It was a good MMO thou. I'd have placed WoW 3rd. As always...my opinion, just like the OP and the rest of you.
I'm honestly and pleasantly surprised by this list; of all the lists featured on mmorpg, this is pretty spot on. I've played the majority of the games on the list and even with other titles like Ac and Lineage 2, I can understand the author's intent and his earlier post on "lasting effect" and the contribution it made to mmo's in general. The games occupying the top 5 are hard to argue against and his explanation is pretty solid of an explanation. I just have to say kudos really, hard to find a top 10 list that feels so heavy handed in one direction or biased but this one does get it pretty spot on!
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Where are all the games that was launched after 2010?
GW2 and ESO were after 2010 and some others get a mention in the intro, such as BDO, but realistically, there's been nothing earth-shatteringly better than what existed 7+ years ago.
Technology has improved massively over the years, but unfortunately, it's less risky and more profitable to make cash shop mobile games.
I also think that companies recognise that the attention-span of people in general isn't what it used to be because people are into the latest shiny thing and so those who would put hundreds and hundreds of hours into a game as less prevalent than before.
Totally disagree with this sentiment. People only move from one shiny thing to the next because the shine soon fades, or they only appear shiny from afar, and once you get close you find out they are dull and listless.
Mine has alot of cancelled mmo's on it. In order of when played.
1. Anarchy Online
2. DAOC
3. Earth & Beyond
4. Ashrons Call
5. Ashrons call 2
6. Auto Assault
7. RF Online
8. Eve Online
9. Everquest 2
10. World of Warcraft
One of the problems of this list is the fact that it shows how displacement and its own form of what I call Gaming Gentrification had occurred.
When I look at the generation of Ultimate Online, Lineage 1, and Everquest 1, I see the generation of players who were RP gamers who had deep backgrounds in PnP RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons, Star Wars RPG, Shadowrun, BattleTech, Vampire: The Masquerade etc, mixed with tons of Console RPG series like DragonQuest, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Tales Series, Chrono Trigger + Chrono Cross, and even single title hits like The Legend of Dragoon and Xenogears.
These were true fans who spent their time being ridiculed and put down by just about everyone outside their circle.
I remember 2000s.. (Pre-WoW) where games started to change.
There was Deus Ex, which was an FPS game with RPG elements. There was also Phantasy Star Online which was the first Online RPG that was on a Console that one could connect to the net that was actually popular. Many including myself bought a Dreamcast just for that game. A lot of console RPGs were being given voice acting and started to become more focused on graphics and FMV (Full Motion Video). Most of the commercials were FMVs to hide away the shitty in-game graphics. Though Xenosaga was my favorite series from this age.
Of course we had Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, RuneScape, Star Wars Galaxies, Ragnarok Online, Eve Online, PlanetSide, Final Fantasy XI, etc.
The fans of MMOs knew to speak of whatever MMO or RPG out there was making strides. Console Gaming JRPGs had become Mainstream, and many new fans started coming into the RPG genre. Since P2W did not exist in the console world, there was still more equal opinion on matters. What we saw the most were a sheer amount of opinion-seekers claiming their favorite series was the best due to having the most fan support etc.
The forces of Evil also advanced as Bots started to be issues through massive Conglomerates like IGE. Games were being invaded by bots. Bot companies started buying shares of developers and started to enter in deals and arrangements with developers. There was also a massive DRAM cartel that existed at the turn of the millennium.
By this point, the genre's main business model was P2P; Generating Money from Subscription Fees and Sales of Expansions.
Then came WoW
What FF VII did to console JRPGs, WoW did to MMORPGs.
MMORPGs became a mainstream genre. Suddenly the Shock of what happened in Japan when FF XI was released did not seem so unreal anymore... as WoW generated the same response even from its poor launch. Many people skipped worked and put their lives on hold while they played WoW. It actually had international media attention on the matter...
WoW was such a hit that the industry had to reinvent itself in order to survive. A year later, Guild Wars 1 came out as a B2P game, while many people from other P2P games FLOCKED to WoW. This caused a lot of P2P games to change into the new model called "F2P" or Free To Play, focused and bent on micro-transactions.
Where the previous generation had players and their guilds camp monsters with super rare drops and sold on Ebay, this generation became the beginning of companies mass-exploiting their populations through F2P models that some of these F2P models towards the late 2000s started being known as "Pay to Win" or a subgenre of F2P games marked by having games masked as a cash-cow attracting players who have enough money to buy their wins.
During this time, MANY gamers came into the genre...
They brought their time
They brought their energy
Most importantly, they brought their MONEY! ...and tons of it!
The industry started to cater to individuals with money to keep themselves alive. The definition of MMORPGs changed. It became more about satisfying as many individuals as possible in order to increase conversion rate and improve upon retention rates.
The old players who shaped the genre and even risked a high school beating by smiling to their peers and saying "I play Role Playing Games" suddenly were no longer important. For every single player that struggled and defended the notion of the P2P and the time sinks that existed, there were 100s of players that had their opinions written and accepted simply from throwing a dollar into it.
No Longer was an MMORPG about being throw into a large world where it was the purpose of the player characters to stick together and solve the mystery of the world. No! Now the genre was about becoming as strong as possible and PvPing each other to Oblivion. You could become the "KING OF THE WORLD" or even a God.... etc, all you had to do was spend thousands to tens of thousands on your character and victory will be yours.
The genre went from being one where Time itself was the reason people were not on an equal footing to that of Money being the reason people are not on equal footing.
So when people talk about what are the TOP 10 games....
Is that really from the Old School Population that survived to today and managed to play all the games on the list? Or is it coming truly from the idea and influence on market succeess brought forth by the new generation of players and the new identity this genre took?
I feel that before WoW there was a completely different definition to MMORPGs
After WoW's impact, the industry revived itself and took on a new identity and redefined the definition to MMORPGs.
I don't blame WoW.
Blizzard did what it needed to do!
Not be lazy and make a game that was high quality and really stick to it.
I blame the many companies that instead of trying to make a good game, decided to be lazy as hell and surrender. Americans took it to heart when several Korean companies joked that we couldn't make a decent game worth anything in 2003. Once we released the King of MMOs, All our Asian Counterparts can do is introduce the latest Soft-Core Porn-Selling point to their F2P/P2Ws and try to make WoW clones to cash in on Blizzard's Success... From Joking to becoming the Joke itself..... Worse Part... The west had to learn the hard way and it did...
I don't count games in the top 10 list that are DEAD GAMES.
We know WoW is a given, however, if a list was made of games before WoW and another of games after WoW, there would be such a big difference between the games and their communities that its not even funny. :P
I'd swap the top 2 to WoW in second place and EQ in first. There can be no doubt that WoW changed the landscape completely but not all of those changes were for the better, and some of the changes were later dropped or Blizz did a complete 180.
EQ also changed the landscape by putting players in a fully 3D world and the biggest advantage it has over WoW is the release schedule of new content and expansions, in most cases only 9 months apart unlike Blizzard's 2-3 years between expansions.
Looking back now I had a much better experience with EQ which is why I'd put it at No. 1.
I would agree with you here 100% - but this is Bill's article and not mine - lol. EQ1 was life changing for me though and the entire reason I was inspired to start this site 15 years ago
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
HiveLeader had me preparing a response, until I saw all the "LOL" response emojis. Overwatch an MMO? LOL indeed.
I thought for sure I was going to have to put in a word for my favorite, CoH. There are other superhero MMOs that are active now, but they just don't capture the same magic.
I've at least tried all of these games, and read about the others, and I think it's a good list. And I read more than just the titles, so there, nyah! As noted, the arrangement could be different, but I don't think there could be such a thing as an "objective" list. Would SWG get on such a list? I think there are subtleties that make an MMO great which depend on subjective reactions.
It's difficult to make a list like this. It tends to look towards ill-defined past instances where specific games were at their peak, and ignores the case of the current state of the game. ... Relishing in past glories doesn't address the decline in quality of MMORPGs. A list including discontinued games is certainly looking wistfully backward. That doesn't drive the genre forward.
Um, it's a list of the 10 Greatest MMORPGs of ALL TIME, not a list of the games that are best in their current state or that are cutting edge. Your comment is like taking a list of greatest people of all time and complaining that it includes Shakespeare, Ghandi, etc.
Looking back can help us remember good things that have been forgotten, or see what has been improved and which way things are being driven forward, and perhaps help us understand how that should change.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) EVE 2) DAOC 3) WOW 4) Lineage 1 5) Lineage 2 6) ArcheAge 7) ....uh yeah... I can't come up with 10.
Nice list, here's mine. Based on what I enjoyed the most. In no order. EVE WOW Lineage 2 SWG Aion GW GW2 ESO EQ Rift SWTOR LotRO
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
And here's my list that no one else agrees with neither cares for! ^^
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
And here's my list that no one else agrees with neither cares for! ^^
Damn, forgot about. TSW SWL Warhammer Age of Conan
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
PS: the same applies to sci fi btw. Too bad for you.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
It's not that the older games are bad or that the newer games are good. It's more a question of sentimentality. They're still neat lists though, and I always look to see whether mine made the cut. Most...... only most!!
I self identify as a monkey.
*Rift for the dynamic content that lead a community to work together.
*Asherons Call for the crafting which built a community.
*Lineage that gave alliances meaning.
Uruketo, 70 Bard/Ninja/Warrior
<Grievance> Free Company
Final Fantasy XIV - Midgardsormr
http://www.grievancegaming.com/
1 - Everquest
2 - World of Warcraft
3 - Ragnarok Online
Wouldn't read again? Sure you would. And you'd post.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
A man who fears nothing is a man who loves nothing; and if you love nothing, what joy is there in your life?
I self identify as a monkey.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Totally disagree with this sentiment. People only move from one shiny thing to the next because the shine soon fades, or they only appear shiny from afar, and once you get close you find out they are dull and listless.
1. Anarchy Online
2. DAOC
3. Earth & Beyond
4. Ashrons Call
5. Ashrons call 2
6. Auto Assault
7. RF Online
8. Eve Online
9. Everquest 2
10. World of Warcraft
When I look at the generation of Ultimate Online, Lineage 1, and Everquest 1, I see the generation of players who were RP gamers who had deep backgrounds in PnP RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons, Star Wars RPG, Shadowrun, BattleTech, Vampire: The Masquerade etc, mixed with tons of Console RPG series like DragonQuest, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Tales Series, Chrono Trigger + Chrono Cross, and even single title hits like The Legend of Dragoon and Xenogears.
These were true fans who spent their time being ridiculed and put down by just about everyone outside their circle.
I remember 2000s.. (Pre-WoW) where games started to change.
There was Deus Ex, which was an FPS game with RPG elements. There was also Phantasy Star Online which was the first Online RPG that was on a Console that one could connect to the net that was actually popular. Many including myself bought a Dreamcast just for that game. A lot of console RPGs were being given voice acting and started to become more focused on graphics and FMV (Full Motion Video). Most of the commercials were FMVs to hide away the shitty in-game graphics. Though Xenosaga was my favorite series from this age.
Of course we had Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, RuneScape, Star Wars Galaxies, Ragnarok Online, Eve Online, PlanetSide, Final Fantasy XI, etc.
The fans of MMOs knew to speak of whatever MMO or RPG out there was making strides. Console Gaming JRPGs had become Mainstream, and many new fans started coming into the RPG genre. Since P2W did not exist in the console world, there was still more equal opinion on matters. What we saw the most were a sheer amount of opinion-seekers claiming their favorite series was the best due to having the most fan support etc.
The forces of Evil also advanced as Bots started to be issues through massive Conglomerates like IGE. Games were being invaded by bots. Bot companies started buying shares of developers and started to enter in deals and arrangements with developers. There was also a massive DRAM cartel that existed at the turn of the millennium.
By this point, the genre's main business model was P2P; Generating Money from Subscription Fees and Sales of Expansions.
Then came WoW
What FF VII did to console JRPGs, WoW did to MMORPGs.
MMORPGs became a mainstream genre. Suddenly the Shock of what happened in Japan when FF XI was released did not seem so unreal anymore... as WoW generated the same response even from its poor launch. Many people skipped worked and put their lives on hold while they played WoW. It actually had international media attention on the matter...
WoW was such a hit that the industry had to reinvent itself in order to survive. A year later, Guild Wars 1 came out as a B2P game, while many people from other P2P games FLOCKED to WoW. This caused a lot of P2P games to change into the new model called "F2P" or Free To Play, focused and bent on micro-transactions.
Where the previous generation had players and their guilds camp monsters with super rare drops and sold on Ebay, this generation became the beginning of companies mass-exploiting their populations through F2P models that some of these F2P models towards the late 2000s started being known as "Pay to Win" or a subgenre of F2P games marked by having games masked as a cash-cow attracting players who have enough money to buy their wins.
During this time, MANY gamers came into the genre...
They brought their time
They brought their energy
Most importantly, they brought their MONEY! ...and tons of it!
The industry started to cater to individuals with money to keep themselves alive. The definition of MMORPGs changed. It became more about satisfying as many individuals as possible in order to increase conversion rate and improve upon retention rates.
The old players who shaped the genre and even risked a high school beating by smiling to their peers and saying "I play Role Playing Games" suddenly were no longer important. For every single player that struggled and defended the notion of the P2P and the time sinks that existed, there were 100s of players that had their opinions written and accepted simply from throwing a dollar into it.
No Longer was an MMORPG about being throw into a large world where it was the purpose of the player characters to stick together and solve the mystery of the world. No! Now the genre was about becoming as strong as possible and PvPing each other to Oblivion. You could become the "KING OF THE WORLD" or even a God.... etc, all you had to do was spend thousands to tens of thousands on your character and victory will be yours.
The genre went from being one where Time itself was the reason people were not on an equal footing to that of Money being the reason people are not on equal footing.
So when people talk about what are the TOP 10 games....
Is that really from the Old School Population that survived to today and managed to play all the games on the list? Or is it coming truly from the idea and influence on market succeess brought forth by the new generation of players and the new identity this genre took?
I feel that before WoW there was a completely different definition to MMORPGs
After WoW's impact, the industry revived itself and took on a new identity and redefined the definition to MMORPGs.
I don't blame WoW.
Blizzard did what it needed to do!
Not be lazy and make a game that was high quality and really stick to it.
I blame the many companies that instead of trying to make a good game, decided to be lazy as hell and surrender. Americans took it to heart when several Korean companies joked that we couldn't make a decent game worth anything in 2003. Once we released the King of MMOs, All our Asian Counterparts can do is introduce the latest Soft-Core Porn-Selling point to their F2P/P2Ws and try to make WoW clones to cash in on Blizzard's Success... From Joking to becoming the Joke itself..... Worse Part... The west had to learn the hard way and it did...
I don't count games in the top 10 list that are DEAD GAMES.
We know WoW is a given, however, if a list was made of games before WoW and another of games after WoW, there would be such a big difference between the games and their communities that its not even funny. :P
I would agree with you here 100% - but this is Bill's article and not mine - lol. EQ1 was life changing for me though and the entire reason I was inspired to start this site 15 years ago
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
I thought for sure I was going to have to put in a word for my favorite, CoH. There are other superhero MMOs that are active now, but they just don't capture the same magic.
I've at least tried all of these games, and read about the others, and I think it's a good list. And I read more than just the titles, so there, nyah! As noted, the arrangement could be different, but I don't think there could be such a thing as an "objective" list. Would SWG get on such a list? I think there are subtleties that make an MMO great which depend on subjective reactions.
Um, it's a list of the 10 Greatest MMORPGs of ALL TIME, not a list of the games that are best in their current state or that are cutting edge. Your comment is like taking a list of greatest people of all time and complaining that it includes Shakespeare, Ghandi, etc.
Looking back can help us remember good things that have been forgotten, or see what has been improved and which way things are being driven forward, and perhaps help us understand how that should change.
Kids these days.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) EVE
2) DAOC
3) WOW
4) Lineage 1
5) Lineage 2
6) ArcheAge
7) ....uh yeah... I can't come up with 10.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In no order.
EVE
WOW
Lineage 2
SWG
Aion
GW
GW2
ESO
EQ
Rift
SWTOR
LotRO
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
- EVE
- Dark Age of Camelot
- Star Wars Galaxies
- EverQuest
- City of Heroes
- Lineage
- Anarchy Online
- Archeage
- Ultima Online
- Black Desert
- Final Fantasy XIV
- Lineage II
- The Secret World
- Warhammer
- Star Wars: The Old Republic
- Age of Conan
- Guild Wars 2
- Elder Scrolls Online
- World of Warcraft
- Tera
And here's my list that no one else agrees with neither cares for! ^^TSW
SWL
Warhammer
Age of Conan
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey