Poll: What’s your opinion of classes in a “DanMachi Like” MMO?

Konfess

Introduction

So I’m hanging out with friends and we are discussing IP we would like to see as MMOs.  Eventually someone brings up DanMachi aka “Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka” or “Is it Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?”  FYI this is one of my top 5 favorite series next to “Well World”, “A Man of His Word”, “Shannara”, and “Robots” series.  I have re-read them every year, since the 70’s.  I recommend anyone who hasn’t read these series should.

What is the Question

My Question is would you play as a Supporter aka “Failed Adventurer.”  A class whose role is to clear the battlefield of the dead, Harvesting the remains of loot, crafting materials, and magic stones (basic currency).  Also Carrying all the harvestables, with some combat and crafting.  I think most players would want to be burdened with this role and it's limitations.  What would be your prefered class, do you think players should or could play Supporters, or should the role be played by an NPC pet hireling?

What are these classes like

Back to a DanMachi Like MMO.  As I see things there are three classes. Adventurer, Craftsmen, and Supporter.  My point in the discussion and here, is that players would not want to play as Supporters.  For those not in the Know.  An Adventurer is your typical rolled up player classes of Tank, DPS, and Healer.  The Craftsmen are “Adventurers” who specialize in crafting, “Duuh.”  And, Supporters are “Failed Adventurers” that perform a logistical (management of supplies) role in the group.  If an Adventurer has a power score of 1, then a Craftsmen would be one half (1/2) that of an Adventurer. To me it follows that a Supporter would be one quarter (1/4) the power of an Adventurer.  

What’s the real difference

The big difference is carrying capacity.  Adventurers would have a backpack with 10 slots. Craftsmen then would have a 20 slot pack. Lastly Supporters would have the 40 slot sacks.  Each item would take a slot, but Common items, Crafting Material, and Magic Stones would stack to say 100 units per slot.  Uncommon items would be Highly Rare and take a single slot.  This means a lot of back and forth to town to free up inventory space.  

How are classes developed and made unique

Most people assume that classes would be separate and distinct, like seen in WoW and EQ.  I thought they should be dynamically built from exclusionary trees.  This mean that there is an Adventurer tree.  So the player spends one point and unlocks the adventurer tree, thereby locking both the Craftsmen and Supporter trees. Craftsmen can only unlock two trees, and supporters can unlock three.  Every first tree (Class Setting) increments by One (1).  The second tree increments by Five Times (5x).  While the third tree increments by Ten Times (10x).  This places a greater importance on specialization, and that each class complies with the writer's intent.

Still don’t understand how character development is handled

So a Player selects Adventurer as their class. They are Level 1, Rank I (10) in all Basic Abilities (Strength, Defense, Weapon Mastery, Dexterity, & Magic).  They can use every weapon and Armour in the game, but when they switch their mastery resets to zero (0).  With the second Rank (H), the layer gets an additional skill point.  Now they can choose weapon class, either Melee, Range, Magic, or Spiritual.  The Guild provides special Training Halls.  This is an instance where weapon and armour mastery remains unaffected and players are able to experiment and explore the skill tree.  Every Rank the player get 1 skill point, every 5 ranks they get a skill point for their second class, and every 10 ranks they get a skill point for their third class where applicable.  These are not interchangeable between trees.  This means that at rank 10 (S) a supporter will get 1 point to spend on the Support tree, plus one for the Adventure and one in Crafting.  These points are labeled and kept in three separate pools of points.

Problems

Problems will happen if a Craftsmen or Supporter doesn’t select Adventurer as their second tree.  So every player starts with One Skill Point (1), and unlocks their class with that point.  Automatically unlocking and locking the additional skill trees in order as required.  So that a Craftsmen is a Craftsmen + Adventurer.  Or a Supporter is a Supporter + Adventurer + Craftsmen.  For these two classes there would be a Guild issued class modifying quest chain.

Why Not a Supporter

The major MMO problem that I see, is that players will not want to play a “Failed Adventurer” class.  I can expect that some players would want to RP as Supporters.  Especially if they were fond of “Liliruca Arde.”  They might also be excited at the idea of exploring all the class trees no matter how difficult it would be.  Though the Craftsmen and Supporter would all start out with Adventurer as their second skill, their Basic Abilities would not increase at the same speed as pure Adventurers.  Adventurers would increase by 8 ± 2. Then Craftsmen would increase by 6 ± 2.  Lastly Supporters would increase by 4 ± 2.  This is only Brainstorming, MMOs are always about balance.  What fun would there be in PvP for a Supporter with that degree of imbalance.

What is Max Level

As those familiar with the IP know Ottar is the highest level character and only Level 7 in the story.  Named Special Characters have reached Level 6.  This is why I think that Player Characters should be capped at Level 5.  To those unfamiliar with the IP, five levels may sound limiting.  Not if you consider advancing each level requires advancing Ten sub-levels in Basic Abilities (I, H, G, F, E, D, C, B, A, & S).

Konfess

I thought I would be able to participate in this poll, but I can't.  I would have voted Adventurer and Playable Character.  I love to craft, but not at the expense of playing a Healer.  Though I prefer to play with AI, and experience less drama.  I still enjoy playing with real people, and voted for that.

I'm going to work now, I hope someone manages that wall of text and find the poll.  See y'all later.

Theocritus

What the heck is a DanMachi? Speak English.

Ozmodan

Why have classes at all?  Why not set up skill trees?

iixviiiix

Ozmodan said:

Why have classes at all?  Why not set up skill trees?

Yup , i though so . Something base on weapon types and magic types .

Also i played this kind of "Supporter " long ago in Priston Tale , the game limit the carry weight and bag slot (kind of like Diablo 2) so people who go to leveling (mob grind) don't loot too much trash item and left them around the ground , So people like me go around grind spot and loot the trash then back to town and sell them for gold at time when we don't want to grind mob but need gold to do something .

IMO , this IP is good to make MMORPG but need to change some in gameplay mechanic to be good game , OP novel may sound interest but you need balance to create game .

Kyleran

I have no clue what the OP is in reference to, will have to Google later and see what its about. 

But if its anime stuff, well that explains it.

Cryomatrix

I just googled it, it is anime stuff. 

I try to give anime a try the other day, but it never stuck. 

Cryomatrix

Dragnelus

Is it wrong to pick up a girl in a dungeon?

Tsiya

Dragnelus said:

Is it wrong to pick up a girl in a dungeon?

Depends on how you carry her out. Over the shoulder is a no-no. On topic, I would play as a supporter if I had the option. I loathe crafting, and usually use whatever skills I have to gather and supply materials.

Sovrath

Dragnelus said:

Is it wrong to pick up a girl in a dungeon?

Ah, it's a show.

This guy doesn't seem to like it.



And no it's not as wrong as long as you don't get anyone killed!  

Konfess

Theocritus said:

What the heck is a DanMachi? Speak English.

The anime community feels that DanMachi is the English name, rather than "Is it Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?"  Because that sound sexist, and is way to long to say.

Ozmodan said:

Why have classes at all?  Why not set up skill trees?

Actually what I described is based on a skill tree system.  Please read the section Titled: "How are classes developed and made unique."

New player selects Adventurer.  They are now Level 1 Rank I (L1RI).  They are free to use any class of weapon and armour.  But they have nothing but the clothes on their backs, so they head down into the Dungeon.  They target and fight a Humanoid, unarmed.  With their one default skill "Attack."  This skill is not tied to any weapon.  Once they defeat the Humanoid mob, they can loot and acquire their first armour, weapon, and magic stone.  These will be common, the magic stone can be redeemed for currency at the Guild.  

The first target should be a Melee target, to get either a club, dagger, hammer, mace spear, or sword.  The next target would be a Ranged target, to get a bow, crossbow, throwing spear, throwing ax, or throwing knife.  The last Target would be a Magic target, to get a wand, staff, rod, talisman, or book.  FYI, Every time the player switches weapon class, then the weapon mastery ability would reset. There are no quest.  Adventurers head down into the Dungeon.  They find mobs they enjoy fight, and they fight and level.  All mobs on the first level are Rank I.  Each floor down goes up in Rank.  This is how we feel the IP works things in the Dungeon.  

At Rank H, the Adventurer selects a Weapon Class.  I felt this would be either Melee, Ranged, or Magic. But it could also be specifically a named weapon class, also granting them their first specific named weapon class attack.  The player would have to stick to this weapon class to maintain their weapon mastery ability rank.

This is another wall of text.  But this is also me being short and simple, honestly.

moosecatlol

If anyone is lost, the closest answer is Ragnarok Online.

It's basically a faster paced openworld watered down dnd, If it actually existed.

That being said, it wholly depends on how the world is actually crafted and developed to determine what would be useful.

iixviiiix

Graphic (anime or not ) aside , if you totally follow the lore of that novel then your game is screwed . Because people don't respawn in that novel lol . You need to change a lots of setting to make it work as MMORPG , aside , don't bring the SAO in haha .

Though i ready some setting of the novel like grand dungeon build by gods to seal great evils under the earth and people venture in to find they fortune .

monochrome19

I like Danmachi and I would give it a try based on that alone but I dont think I would be able to take it seriously unless there were major changes.

nariusseldon

Ozmodan said:

Why have classes at all?  Why not set up skill trees?

Because classes work well in games? Don't break what is not broken?

nariusseldon

the question is .. why would it be fun as a supporter? If you can make it fun for enough people .. sure. Otherwise, why bother.

If you cut out the supporter and craftsman, you basically have your standard RPG. 

Konfess

FYI, The group didn't choose “Is it Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?”

iixviiiix said:

[edit for content] If you totally follow the lore of that novel then your game is screwed . Because people don't respawn in that novel lol . You need to change a lots of setting to make it work as MMORPG.

I am not a fan of permadeath, so the game has re-spawn.  By saying "Like", I meant that the game would not be exactly like the source material.  Proper names from the novels would not be used.  The gods would lose their proper and possibly copyrighted names.  Instead they would have single word names, when possible, like War, Harvest, Hunt, Wine, Sun and Moon.

I would like to hear what other changes you think may be needed to see if I thought of them.  

monochrome19 said:

I like Danmachi and I would give it a try based on that alone but I dont think I would be able to take it seriously unless there were major changes.

If you come back please vote in the Poll, found at the end of the OP.  I'm interested to hear what roll a fan of the IP would play.  Could you tell me the major changes you have in mind?

nariusseldon said:

Ozmodan said:

Why have classes at all?  Why not set up skill trees?

Because classes work well in games? Don't break what is not broken?

I am a fan rolls, and classes.  But I chose a skill tree system so players could build a class.  The point system would limit what you can select and how advanced you can take the system.  It is only a draft right now, start at adventurer and branching to melee, range, and magic.  I haven't decided if these are branch titles or must be selected with a point, I'm leaning to titles.  Followed by names like sword, club, bow, and wand.  I haven't thought about other weapons that would be available yet, or even armour.  Then only progression I have considered is player Level being tied to weapons.  A Level 2 Rank H player can equip a Level 1 Rank S sword, but not a Level 2 Rank H sword until that skill is unlocked with points.

nariusseldon said:

the question is .. why would it be fun as a supporter? If you can make it fun for enough people .. sure. Otherwise, why bother.

If you cut out the supporter and craftsman, you basically have your standard RPG. 

Why Bother is exactly what I was thinking.  I felt that adventurers would be strong fighters, but very poor harvesters and also have the worst carrying capacity.  Their backpacks would be limited to ten slots max.  I even considered Starting the adventurer with only a one slot pouch.  As solo players of the same Level and Rand I expect an adventurer to make 0.4 gold / hour.  A craftsman to make 4 gold / hour.  While a supporter could make 20 gold / hour, due to better quality magic stone harvesting and quantity carried.  This even takes in account the poor combat of the supporter.  But if those same three were to team up and work together then I would expect their takes to become adventurer = 31, craftsman = 31, and supporter = 30.  But this is the best case scenario.  I also expect the supporters to be treated just like in the novels, where they are bullied and robed at every chance by greedy adventurers.  In that case you might not find supporters on pvp servers, maybe not even craftsmen.  Unless they are protected by guilds.

Thank you to the two people who participated in the poll.

iixviiiix

I just think about something haha .
Yup , pick up the girls , why don't we have pick up girly NPCs as battle pets . The cosmetic item will sell well and we have some contents as keep to level up the girl you pick

This trend seem popular nowadays too