The Federal government describes copyright and patents as "monopolies" because that is what they are. With the whole Tetris ordeal siding in favor of the originator, then it's safe to say that this should allow DOTA to do the same for every MOBA created since it's conception. Who knows, maybe Sony EverQuest should sue every MMORPG ever made. While we are at it, Minecraft should sue Trove and every other game similar to itself. This could go on and on and on, including the music industry, the auto industry, food industry. In my honest opinion, I hate copyright and patents because they are monopolies, but what I don't understand is, how are "some" able to sue for infringements and not others. Probably because the Supreme Court makes decisions based on minute details and every decision they make ends up opening a whole new can of worms for one party or another to exploit.
DOTA wasn't the first MOBA map mod on SC, where it originated. That title belongs to Aeon of Strife.
DOTA was controlled by multiple owners over time and so that also muddies the waters.
In general the first company to get everything right will get the market share. That's what LOL did. Valve was lucky enough to get the DOTA name and have a legion of fanboys behind them to make a big mark as well. HOTS was poorly designed and so even Blizzard backing them couldn't make them a real factor.
I think that everyone is defending Fortnite but Epic made real blatant rippoff.
Like they practically copied the game in their engine. Every single thing.
Its very dirty - where did gaming come to when people are simply copying other game to every single detail ?
Er....WOW clones galore, numerous L2 ripoffs, doom clones, mobas, etc, copying gameplay mechanics and even the UI have been standards in gaming for a very long time.
As I read through this thread (you did read the thread before posting, right?) there is mention of several differences, including setting, base building and more so while one may borrow very heavily from the other this is certainly not new at all in gaming.
But isnt rampant cloning just what destroyed MMORPGs ?
Before WoW every MMO tried to be original, than came the simple wish to do exact same game as WOW.
And what about endless stream of DOTA games ?
How is this good for anything ?
no cloning didn't kill MMO's
endless streams of MOBAs haven't killed MOBAs in the slightest.
So the devs from H1 KOTK can jump ship and basically make THE EXACT SAME GAME and sucker people into it and now THEYRE butthurt over more games cashing in on the Battle Royale game mode? Wow...They cant copyright or lay claim to a game mode unless its something they came up with thats completely original. This is why I never bought the game and never will. I just wish everyone else was smart enough to not throw money at games like this when theyre blatant rehashes.
So if they went into legalities with this, then where would it actually leave them against H1Z1-KotK? They could likewise bring up legalities against PUBG themselves. Yes it was teh same coder but he was PAID a salary, then other companies would start up their own till it all leads back to probably the first games to come out of that genre.
As said, whats been a successful for 1 game triggers loads of wannabe copies (most suck, some though rare will be way better) its been that way for years. Take survival games ARK, Conan, Upcomming Citadel and Dark and Light.
I dont own either of these 2 games. Will probably get PuBG when it goes on a decent discount (if ever) since i own H1Z1-KotK and both game are just too simular to each. Fortnite is ment to be F2P next year anyways so i can wait till then. If its heavy on the Cash shop then it will flop out, but next year it could have died anyways, only time will tell when that stage comes.
Bluehole and Brendan himself seem to handle their game and success with pure amateurness. From the mess that was stream snipe banning and now this. Before even a response from Epic they speculated intentions by Epic, and released a statement to media outlets that infer a lawsuit, then retweet pc gamers story I assume to garner sympathy from gamers and fans. Me? I find it distasteful and expect it to hurt themselves and gaming in general. But hey, it is their game.
He says it right in the interview. Part of the license is getting assistance from Epic. If Epic assists in creating a feature for Pubg then implements it in their own game. That can be a problem.
And also what does it say to other developers. Use Unreal and when your game is a success we will copy that shit and compete with you. But keep paying us for the engine use.
He says it right in the interview. Part of the license is getting assistance from Epic. If Epic assists in creating a feature for Pubg then implements it in their own game. That can be a problem.
And also what does it say to other developers. Use Unreal and when your game is a success we will copy that shit and compete with you. But keep paying us for the engine use.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"One of the biggest recent observations on this trend is the public event system in Destiny 2, which was founded in Warhammer Online by Mythic."
Warhammer invented that system, but it was also used to an extent in Rift and also to a larger extent in GW2, long before the original Destiny much less Destiny 2 was even a concept.
After watching actual gameplay of Fortnite, it does show some similarity.
Especially the opening sequence, with waiting for the game to start. Then flying in on a plane and parachuting down - it looks very similar to PUBG. I think Epic could have been a bit more original. You could have people beam down from space or something of that sort. I would not be comfortable releasing a product that similar to something out there.
On the other hand, Fortnite has building, gathering and item crafting. It also has a completely different art style. The game would handle very differently, the combat would be quite different.
You probably can't make a solid case, even if the opening sequence is quite similar.
I don't see how anyone can claim ownership of a genre. The mere notion is ludicrous and if Bluehole is actually claiming such a thing, they are delusional.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could make an identical replica of their game and as long as they didn't share the same code, they could do nothing to prevent me from selling it. After all, it's not like it hasn't been done before, over and over again.
Well I see a lot of posts here saying you can't copyright a genre and I agree.
However watching that video does give you a deeper insight. Fortnite randomly added a battle royal mode which is a carbon copy of PUBG.
Taking into account that PUBG is paying royalties to them just to get blatantly copied... yeah I would try my luck with a lawyer too.
If you're not a developer you'd think that is how it works, or should. If you're a developer you're either not being honest or you live in some crazy utopian dev ecosystem inside Area 51.
If they had at least changed a few things but it's an obvious 1:1 copy and they didn't even try to hide it.
You guys are convinced that there is nothing that can be done about it. That's fine.
I think pointing out all the "borrowed" elements is enough to give it a shot at court.
I don't see how anyone can claim ownership of a genre. The mere notion is ludicrous and if Bluehole is actually claiming such a thing, they are delusional.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could make an identical replica of their game and as long as they didn't share the same code, they could do nothing to prevent me from selling it. After all, it's not like it hasn't been done before, over and over again.
And you'd be wrong, copy the look and feel too closely and the courts might come down on you.
Read the Tetris decision for better understanding.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't see how anyone can claim ownership of a genre. The mere notion is ludicrous and if Bluehole is actually claiming such a thing, they are delusional.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could make an identical replica of their game and as long as they didn't share the same code, they could do nothing to prevent me from selling it. After all, it's not like it hasn't been done before, over and over again.
You can't claim ownership of an idea, but you can own the expression of an idea.
In games, you can't own the general rules of a game. If you were explaining a game to a non-gamer in general terms, you could not claim ownership of that description. For a game like Tetris, this would be something like "stacking block patterns on top of each other in order to form complete lines, scoring points as a result". The person got busted in the Tetris case, because they used the exact same block patterns as Tetris - that is an expression of the idea (they could have used any other variation in patterns or a different grid size).
For a battle royale, you probably can't own the idea of fighting other people until a single one is standing. You probably also can't own the idea of a shrinking battlefield, nor selecting where you start the battle, nor the idea of collecting weapons scattered on the battlefield. You might be able to own the expression of it though - perhaps flying in on an army plane, having a specific set of weapons, the shape of the play area. In a MOBA, you might own the idea of having 5 melee minions and 2 caster minions in a wave.
If your product has too many of these similarities in the expression of the idea, the court might rule against you.
Given the fact that PUBG and Fortnite is so dissimilar thematically though, I think you'd struggle to argue one might confuse them. The weapons aren't even scattered on the floor, in Fortnite you find chests. Fortnite has crafting and building. I think the expression of the idea is fairly unique. Much more so than the relationship between WoW (technically Everquest) and most MMORPGs. If PUBG could win a case against Fortnite, Everquest could win a case against any MMORPG out there.
Pay close attention to 14:, and 17: a, b c, and d. The second PUBG tries any legal action, PUBG no longer exists.
I think you should have paid attention to the points you listed yourself. Those points say that your license will be revoked when you steal code or intelectual property of third parties.
It says nothing about them being allowed to do whatever they want.
If they go the blackmail route and revoke the license for PUBG then no one will ever use their engine again.
Pay close attention to 14:, and 17: a, b c, and d. The second PUBG tries any legal action, PUBG no longer exists.
I think you should have paid attention to the points you listed yourself. Those points say that your license will be revoked when you steal code or intelectual property of third parties.
It says nothing about them being allowed to do whatever they want.
If they go the blackmail route and revoke the license for PUBG then no one will ever use their engine again.
The thing is they could revoke it basically based off legal threats to them that are unfounded as that could be considered libel/defimation. There are similarities, but it is nowhere near a 1:1 ripoff either. Their baser claims are basically stating that epic shouldn't be able to make a game that competes with anyone that they work with or that licenses their engine. Epic would basically no longer be able to make ANY games using their rather flawed logic. Not to mention the so called "using pubg for promotion" was literally epic saying "We love battle royale games like PUBG"
Not to mention that Epic has a much longer history of licensing their engine and making games that compete with those that they license to and it has NEVER been an issue until PUBG. And their reasoning is based on things epic "could do"
They pay EPIC royalties because they licensed to use their engine. If EPIC wants to make a Battle Royale game, they have every right to.
You can't copyright game modes. Petty lawsuit by a petty company.
Yeah I got the same.
Sure it leaves a salty taste on EPIC's clients on creating direct competitors to their games at the same time they charge them royalties to use their engine, but end of the day they aren't doing anything that would be logically illegal.
The thing is it is known that Epic makes games and licenses their engine now for like 20+ years. This isn't a new company popping up that is doe eyed (nor is bluehole, though bluehole is much much younger than epic is). Epic has been making games and licensing their engine for so long that it isn't somehow a magically unknown variable and this is the first time ever that something like this has EVER come up in their long storied history.
The only legal trouble that epic ever got into before was the whole Silicon Knights debacle which Silicon Knights lost quite handily. If it were a problem it would of already reared its head by now sometime in the last 20 or so years.
Sounds like all the want is for Epic games to play fair and not cripple Bluehole. when really its already to late. Epic games will cash in on the genre's success and eat bluehole alive. its just business.
They shouldve made contracts that wouldve prevented Epic games from doing this very thing.
Epic would not be able to make any games ever based on their logic. Epic is trying to cash in on the genre's success yes. However unless Bluehole has a specific contract drawn up and isn't just licensing the engine they are under the standard terms of service any other licensee is. Epic has never had an issue both supporting a competing game and making a game that competes with their own in 20+ years. No one has ever had issue with epic making competing games and it isn't fair to expect them not to be able to make their own game mode.
Not to mention that almost everything PUBG is is marketplace based assets to begin with. You can't draw up your own contracts to license someone else's technology/engine unless you have a "special" relationship with them.
Epic treats everyone the same with their licensing and just because they are making a competing product doesn't mean they won't offer fair support to PUBG/Bluehole and nothing in their history suggests they would do so.
Comments
DOTA was controlled by multiple owners over time and so that also muddies the waters.
In general the first company to get everything right will get the market share. That's what LOL did. Valve was lucky enough to get the DOTA name and have a legion of fanboys behind them to make a big mark as well. HOTS was poorly designed and so even Blizzard backing them couldn't make them a real factor.
endless streams of MOBAs haven't killed MOBAs in the slightest.
As said, whats been a successful for 1 game triggers loads of wannabe copies (most suck, some though rare will be way better) its been that way for years. Take survival games ARK, Conan, Upcomming Citadel and Dark and Light.
I dont own either of these 2 games. Will probably get PuBG when it goes on a decent discount (if ever) since i own H1Z1-KotK and both game are just too simular to each. Fortnite is ment to be F2P next year anyways so i can wait till then. If its heavy on the Cash shop then it will flop out, but next year it could have died anyways, only time will tell when that stage comes.
~~ postlarval ~~
man a freaking cookie
And also what does it say to other developers. Use Unreal and when your game is a success we will copy that shit and compete with you. But keep paying us for the engine use.
Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However watching that video does give you a deeper insight.
Fortnite randomly added a battle royal mode which is a carbon copy of PUBG.
Taking into account that PUBG is paying royalties to them just to get blatantly copied... yeah I would try my luck with a lawyer too.
Warhammer invented that system, but it was also used to an extent in Rift and also to a larger extent in GW2, long before the original Destiny much less Destiny 2 was even a concept.
It gives Epic is bad publicity for Unreal Engine.
Especially the opening sequence, with waiting for the game to start. Then flying in on a plane and parachuting down - it looks very similar to PUBG. I think Epic could have been a bit more original. You could have people beam down from space or something of that sort. I would not be comfortable releasing a product that similar to something out there.
On the other hand, Fortnite has building, gathering and item crafting. It also has a completely different art style. The game would handle very differently, the combat would be quite different.
You probably can't make a solid case, even if the opening sequence is quite similar.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could make an identical replica of their game and as long as they didn't share the same code, they could do nothing to prevent me from selling it. After all, it's not like it hasn't been done before, over and over again.
You guys are convinced that there is nothing that can be done about it. That's fine.
I think pointing out all the "borrowed" elements is enough to give it a shot at court.
Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
Read the Tetris decision for better understanding.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In games, you can't own the general rules of a game. If you were explaining a game to a non-gamer in general terms, you could not claim ownership of that description. For a game like Tetris, this would be something like "stacking block patterns on top of each other in order to form complete lines, scoring points as a result". The person got busted in the Tetris case, because they used the exact same block patterns as Tetris - that is an expression of the idea (they could have used any other variation in patterns or a different grid size).
For a battle royale, you probably can't own the idea of fighting other people until a single one is standing. You probably also can't own the idea of a shrinking battlefield, nor selecting where you start the battle, nor the idea of collecting weapons scattered on the battlefield. You might be able to own the expression of it though - perhaps flying in on an army plane, having a specific set of weapons, the shape of the play area. In a MOBA, you might own the idea of having 5 melee minions and 2 caster minions in a wave.
If your product has too many of these similarities in the expression of the idea, the court might rule against you.
Given the fact that PUBG and Fortnite is so dissimilar thematically though, I think you'd struggle to argue one might confuse them. The weapons aren't even scattered on the floor, in Fortnite you find chests. Fortnite has crafting and building. I think the expression of the idea is fairly unique. Much more so than the relationship between WoW (technically Everquest) and most MMORPGs. If PUBG could win a case against Fortnite, Everquest could win a case against any MMORPG out there.
Those points say that your license will be revoked when you steal code or intelectual property of third parties.
It says nothing about them being allowed to do whatever they want.
If they go the blackmail route and revoke the license for PUBG then no one will ever use their engine again.
Not to mention that Epic has a much longer history of licensing their engine and making games that compete with those that they license to and it has NEVER been an issue until PUBG. And their reasoning is based on things epic "could do"
The only legal trouble that epic ever got into before was the whole Silicon Knights debacle which Silicon Knights lost quite handily. If it were a problem it would of already reared its head by now sometime in the last 20 or so years.
Not to mention that almost everything PUBG is is marketplace based assets to begin with. You can't draw up your own contracts to license someone else's technology/engine unless you have a "special" relationship with them.
Epic treats everyone the same with their licensing and just because they are making a competing product doesn't mean they won't offer fair support to PUBG/Bluehole and nothing in their history suggests they would do so.