Do you want to know why developers and publishers have to deal with all the **** and community drama, threats, and all that crap? Because their greed has no bounds. They want to make the game ¨accessible¨ to every one so they can make as much money as possible. This, by itself, is not a problem. The problem is that when they persuade a huge number of people from that community to pay for the game before its ready (preorders, early access, crowdfunding, etc) now you have the obligation to tell everything to the community that gave you money. And the sense of entitlement that comes with that early payment make people obnoxious and, just like the big investors, they get desperate and mad if the devs dont do what these people want.
You know what? Stop asking for early money and stop pretending the community has a voice of authority in game development. Back in the day, developers had visions of what games they wanted to create. And when the game was ready they offered that vision to everyone in the form of a finished game. We either took it or left it. Go back to those days and stop including the community in the development process. But to do that you need to stop asking for money before the game is ready or the entitled bunch will keep spreading venom everywhere.
They delete threads like crazy even if they don't break any forum rules. I have read several well written posts about how to improve game functions that were presented in a perfectly kosher way that were gone soon after I read it. This has happened on the OW, HS and HotS forums.
Many of the threads that were deleted presented very good FREE ideas but my guess is they don't want their players getting any thoughts of how much better their games can be so they just delete delete delete.
Easy to say, but I'm not seeing any clear evidence.
Obviously there's no evidence because it has been deleted.
He is 100% correct. While most of the community can "behave itself" and provide constructive criticism, there is that element that is simply toxic. Who can blame devs for not wanting to wade into the forum cesspool.
It's a real bad sign to use the actions of a small portion of the population as an excuse. Look, if people act out of line or break the rules, that is what the moderators are for, don't use their actions as an excuse to not answer to criticisms.
From the article, "Once we say we're working on something, we're not allowed to 'take it back'. It's set in stone." What are we, as players, supposed to take from a statement like that? Never take a game developer at their word? Never hold them accountable to their own statements? Their words and statements mean nothing? Hey, when plans change, say plans have changed. Something that game developers once thought was possible to implement turns out to not be so. Just inform the players, don't go into a semantics battle by saying things like, "We never used the word 'promise.'"
Yea, that quote is pretty off.
It does smack of attempting to CYA on any statement they make about what they plan to do with a game. In the era of crowdfunding, that just doesn't (and shouldn't) cut it.
From my experience, you can't go wrong with honesty. So the question is, why be intimidated? Either you believe in your product or you don't. What some player decides to spew on your forums should really have zero impact. I actually find it amusing that any developer would say this.
I don't think they care about the people who "say things". I wouldn't.
I think they care about the nut jobs who "say things" and then take it upon themselves to stalk the developers, find their houses, that sort of thing.
I mean, would you want some gamer nut job to start sending you messages and "stuff" to your house? On the surface it might seem "funny" but what happens when some guy (it's just going to be a guy) decides to pay you a visit?
Some of these people have no boundaries.
Speaking as someone who works in a customer-facing office, it comes with the territory.
I also happen to have one of the most specifically unique RL names I've ever heard in my life; I don't even get the option to use a pseudonym for licensing and regulation reasons. But there are procedures in place to respond to real threats from consumers.
If you're so scared of angering someone that you don't want or cannot be honest and up front with your consumer base, you have to question whether you're cut out for a customer-facing position.
Quite a bit of brave talk here from people posting anonymously behind a handle.
These folks are posting with their real names, something most here would never do. (And I think is crazy btw)
When I was playing my first MMORPG I was a guild leader and freely shared personal info about myself as did my daughter who played with me.
Eventually had a guild member who felt slighted and started making threats to come to my house and hurt my daughter.
As my name is extraordinarily unique it would not have been too hard to track me down so it was a real concern.
Actually had to have the Devs ban him 3 times, he kept buying the game and contacting me, apologizing and begging me to ask the devs to reinstate his main account.
Finally shook him but from then on I never share any personal info, heck, I don't even share my in game character names on these forums as one time someone stalked me from another forum.
So yeah, until you regularly post your real name in a public place over controversial topics, I don't think you can criticise.
Oh yeah and I really don't live in Paradise City, that comes from an old GNR song.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Quite a bit of brave talk here from people posting anonymously behind a handle.
These folks are posting with their real names, something most here would never do. (And I think is crazy btw)
When I was playing my first MMORPG I was a guild leader and freely shared personal info about myself as did my daughter who played with me.
Eventually had a guild member who felt slighted and started making threats to come to my house and hurt my daughter.
As my name is extraordinarily unique it would not have been too hard to track me down so it was a real concern.
Actually had to have the Devs ban him 3 times, he kept buying the game and contacting me, apologizing and begging me to ask the devs to reinstate his main account.
Finally shook him but from then on I never share any personal info, heck, I don't even share my in game character names on these forums as one time someone stalked me from another forum.
So yeah, until you regularly post your real name in a public place over controversial topics, I don't think you can criticise.
Oh yeah and I really don't live in Paradise City, that comes from an old GNR song.
Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty?
Also, OMG what is your name?!
I had a similar experience. Lots of people had my Skype and my phone number during my hardcore EVE days so they could reach me in emergencies. Then my number went corporate and became easier to find call than a 1-800 number. So I got a lot of prank calls and FU texts, fun times. Once a sore-recently-got-blown-up-expensive-ship-loser-guy texted me that he's going to track me down and beat the crap out of me. I texted him back my home address. Never heard of him again.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
From my experience, you can't go wrong with honesty. So the question is, why be intimidated? Either you believe in your product or you don't. What some player decides to spew on your forums should really have zero impact. I actually find it amusing that any developer would say this.
I don't think they care about the people who "say things". I wouldn't.
I think they care about the nut jobs who "say things" and then take it upon themselves to stalk the developers, find their houses, that sort of thing.
I mean, would you want some gamer nut job to start sending you messages and "stuff" to your house? On the surface it might seem "funny" but what happens when some guy (it's just going to be a guy) decides to pay you a visit?
Some of these people have no boundaries.
Speaking as someone who works in a customer-facing office, it comes with the territory.
I also happen to have one of the most specifically unique RL names I've ever heard in my life; I don't even get the option to use a pseudonym for licensing and regulation reasons. But there are procedures in place to respond to real threats from consumers.
If you're so scared of angering someone that you don't want or cannot be honest and up front with your consumer base, you have to question whether you're cut out for a customer-facing position.
But that would be the question wouldn't it? Are they in a "customer facing position"?
There's a difference between a news person or actor or politician and someone who writes code and develops. One could argue that that is why we have community reps.
And I would also say, unless knowing one's real name is inherently important to the position, it's ok to use pseudonyms.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I was just thinking perhaps another angle,i mean he is saying this for a reason.Probably someone called him out for not being an active member of the community so he felt he had to make something up,an excuse.I mentioned it even with their charity ideas,all this guy does is take credit while sitting behind a desk,he has a team that looks after it all. So yeah imo he is just a typical over rich person,likes to live the high life but give nothing back to the community,even too lazy to talk to people so had to make up this "feel sorry for me" angle.
real names is not an excuse,we already know his real name weather he talks to the community or not.He simply wants to do like all devs,take the easy road,send in articles to websites for biased reviews and pay money to further hype up their products.This again takes no effort for Kaplan,he has a team that does it all for him. IO guarantee when it is time to hype up his product like at a Blizzcon or something with all fanbois,he will show up.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Do you want to know why developers and publishers have to deal with all the **** and community drama, threats, and all that crap? Because their greed has no bounds. They want to make the game ¨accessible¨ to every one so they can make as much money as possible. This, by itself, is not a problem. The problem is that when they persuade a huge number of people from that community to pay for the game before its ready (preorders, early access, crowdfunding, etc) now you have the obligation to tell everything to the community that gave you money. And the sense of entitlement that comes with that early payment make people obnoxious and, just like the big investors, they get desperate and mad if the devs dont do what these people want.
You know what? Stop asking for early money and stop pretending the community has a voice of authority in game development. Back in the day, developers had visions of what games they wanted to create. And when the game was ready they offered that vision to everyone in the form of a finished game. We either took it or left it. Go back to those days and stop including the community in the development process. But to do that you need to stop asking for money before the game is ready or the entitled bunch will keep spreading venom everywhere.
My few cents, sorry for the wall of text.
That doesn't warrant threats. If one doesn't like how a business "does business" then don't patronize them. Problem solved.
If a company is asking for money and you aren't guaranteed what you think you're getting then don't give money.
None of this is hard. Or should be hard.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They delete threads like crazy even if they don't break any forum rules. I have read several well written posts about how to improve game functions that were presented in a perfectly kosher way that were gone soon after I read it. This has happened on the OW, HS and HotS forums.
Many of the threads that were deleted presented very good FREE ideas but my guess is they don't want their players getting any thoughts of how much better their games can be so they just delete delete delete.
Easy to say, but I'm not seeing any clear evidence.
Obviously there's no evidence because it has been deleted.
He is 100% correct. While most of the community can "behave itself" and provide constructive criticism, there is that element that is simply toxic. Who can blame devs for not wanting to wade into the forum cesspool.
It's a real bad sign to use the actions of a small portion of the population as an excuse. Look, if people act out of line or break the rules, that is what the moderators are for, don't use their actions as an excuse to not answer to criticisms.
From the article, "Once we say we're working on something, we're not allowed to 'take it back'. It's set in stone." What are we, as players, supposed to take from a statement like that? Never take a game developer at their word? Never hold them accountable to their own statements? Their words and statements mean nothing? Hey, when plans change, say plans have changed. Something that game developers once thought was possible to implement turns out to not be so. Just inform the players, don't go into a semantics battle by saying things like, "We never used the word 'promise.'"
Honestly, I WOULD say that we should never take a game developer for their word. What they say may be an opinion. It may be an idea they think is neat but will never happen. It may be something they're testing but doesn't make it into production due to reasons. They may simply be mistaken. It may be something that's in production now but is taken out for reasons. Reasons.
It doesn't matter what a developer says, someone on the internet will take it out of context, or suddenly declare that because a developer said it that it's now a universal and irrefutable truth that demands human sacrifice if reality doesn't quite match now and forever.
"But they promised that..." No.. they made a comment that could be completely wrong or be changed at any moment in time. Even if they literally said "I promise that...", things change. Welcome to reality, where things change and nothing anyone says is EVER set in stone. ESPECIALLY when it comes to software design.
If a developer says anything, people need to translate it to "There is a possibility that...", not "This exact thing will happen exactly as I said at the exact time I said, or you can threaten me all you like and act like a completely horrible person."
From my experience, you can't go wrong with honesty. So the question is, why be intimidated? Either you believe in your product or you don't. What some player decides to spew on your forums should really have zero impact. I actually find it amusing that any developer would say this.
I don't think they care about the people who "say things". I wouldn't.
I think they care about the nut jobs who "say things" and then take it upon themselves to stalk the developers, find their houses, that sort of thing.
I mean, would you want some gamer nut job to start sending you messages and "stuff" to your house? On the surface it might seem "funny" but what happens when some guy (it's just going to be a guy) decides to pay you a visit?
Some of these people have no boundaries.
Speaking as someone who works in a customer-facing office, it comes with the territory.
I also happen to have one of the most specifically unique RL names I've ever heard in my life; I don't even get the option to use a pseudonym for licensing and regulation reasons. But there are procedures in place to respond to real threats from consumers.
If you're so scared of angering someone that you don't want or cannot be honest and up front with your consumer base, you have to question whether you're cut out for a customer-facing position.
But that would be the question wouldn't it? Are they in a "customer facing position"?
There's a difference between a news person or actor or politician and someone who writes code and develops. One could argue that that is why we have community reps.
And I would also say, unless knowing one's real name is inherently important to the position, it's ok to use pseudonyms.
If they choose to participate at all in interacting with customers directly, they are.
Specifically, crowdfunding developers are definitely in a customer-facing position.
And again, there are definitely industries where using one's real name is a requirement for licensing or other regulations. Beyond this, our office interfaces with customers in person, even delivering the "bad news" of denials face to face. If you think the venom spewed at a developer for an entertainment product is bad, you've never witnessed the anger that comes with a customer having his flooring rotted through and telling him the full $5000+ job of repairing it isn't something we're gonna be able to help him with.
Largely, the noise created by customers on the internet is just that, noise. If it becomes an issue of actual harassment, legal steps can (and should) be taken. Short of that, if you're going to focus on interacting with your customers (specifically via the anonymous internet), you might wanna ensure your skin's on the thick side.
Define "developer." I'm a coder/developer for a living. I have nothing to do with schedules, timelines, promises to customers, project scope, PR, etc... There are project managers, business analysts, marketers, customer support, QA, trainers, document writers and about 10 to 1 managers to coders... I can't even fix a defect someone really wants fixed, without it first getting passed around to all these people to prioritize, and endlessly have meetings and discussions about - when the thing would usually take less than a day to fix, test and deliver. Then these people pat themselves on the back for a job well done, take the credit for it and give themselves raises. If a defect gets released into the wild, it's the opposite - coders get the blame.
Comments
You know what? Stop asking for early money and stop pretending the community has a voice of authority in game development. Back in the day, developers had visions of what games they wanted to create. And when the game was ready they offered that vision to everyone in the form of a finished game. We either took it or left it. Go back to those days and stop including the community in the development process. But to do that you need to stop asking for money before the game is ready or the entitled bunch will keep spreading venom everywhere.
My few cents, sorry for the wall of text.
It does smack of attempting to CYA on any statement they make about what they plan to do with a game. In the era of crowdfunding, that just doesn't (and shouldn't) cut it.
I also happen to have one of the most specifically unique RL names I've ever heard in my life; I don't even get the option to use a pseudonym for licensing and regulation reasons. But there are procedures in place to respond to real threats from consumers.
If you're so scared of angering someone that you don't want or cannot be honest and up front with your consumer base, you have to question whether you're cut out for a customer-facing position.
These folks are posting with their real names, something most here would never do. (And I think is crazy btw)
When I was playing my first MMORPG I was a guild leader and freely shared personal info about myself as did my daughter who played with me.
Eventually had a guild member who felt slighted and started making threats to come to my house and hurt my daughter.
As my name is extraordinarily unique it would not have been too hard to track me down so it was a real concern.
Actually had to have the Devs ban him 3 times, he kept buying the game and contacting me, apologizing and begging me to ask the devs to reinstate his main account.
Finally shook him but from then on I never share any personal info, heck, I don't even share my in game character names on these forums as one time someone stalked me from another forum.
So yeah, until you regularly post your real name in a public place over controversial topics, I don't think you can criticise.
Oh yeah and I really don't live in Paradise City, that comes from an old GNR song.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also, OMG what is your name?!
I had a similar experience. Lots of people had my Skype and my phone number during my hardcore EVE days so they could reach me in emergencies. Then my number went corporate and became easier to find call than a 1-800 number. So I got a lot of prank calls and FU texts, fun times. Once a sore-recently-got-blown-up-expensive-ship-loser-guy texted me that he's going to track me down and beat the crap out of me. I texted him back my home address. Never heard of him again.
There's a difference between a news person or actor or politician and someone who writes code and develops. One could argue that that is why we have community reps.
And I would also say, unless knowing one's real name is inherently important to the position, it's ok to use pseudonyms.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So yeah imo he is just a typical over rich person,likes to live the high life but give nothing back to the community,even too lazy to talk to people so had to make up this "feel sorry for me" angle.
real names is not an excuse,we already know his real name weather he talks to the community or not.He simply wants to do like all devs,take the easy road,send in articles to websites for biased reviews and pay money to further hype up their products.This again takes no effort for Kaplan,he has a team that does it all for him.
IO guarantee when it is time to hype up his product like at a Blizzcon or something with all fanbois,he will show up.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If a company is asking for money and you aren't guaranteed what you think you're getting then don't give money.
None of this is hard. Or should be hard.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Honestly, I WOULD say that we should never take a game developer for their word. What they say may be an opinion. It may be an idea they think is neat but will never happen. It may be something they're testing but doesn't make it into production due to reasons. They may simply be mistaken. It may be something that's in production now but is taken out for reasons. Reasons.
It doesn't matter what a developer says, someone on the internet will take it out of context, or suddenly declare that because a developer said it that it's now a universal and irrefutable truth that demands human sacrifice if reality doesn't quite match now and forever.
"But they promised that..." No.. they made a comment that could be completely wrong or be changed at any moment in time. Even if they literally said "I promise that...", things change. Welcome to reality, where things change and nothing anyone says is EVER set in stone. ESPECIALLY when it comes to software design.
If a developer says anything, people need to translate it to "There is a possibility that...", not "This exact thing will happen exactly as I said at the exact time I said, or you can threaten me all you like and act like a completely horrible person."
Specifically, crowdfunding developers are definitely in a customer-facing position.
And again, there are definitely industries where using one's real name is a requirement for licensing or other regulations. Beyond this, our office interfaces with customers in person, even delivering the "bad news" of denials face to face. If you think the venom spewed at a developer for an entertainment product is bad, you've never witnessed the anger that comes with a customer having his flooring rotted through and telling him the full $5000+ job of repairing it isn't something we're gonna be able to help him with.
Largely, the noise created by customers on the internet is just that, noise. If it becomes an issue of actual harassment, legal steps can (and should) be taken. Short of that, if you're going to focus on interacting with your customers (specifically via the anonymous internet), you might wanna ensure your skin's on the thick side.