The fact that this business model works reflects on how gaming has evolved from being something that people do alternatively for fun, to something as they do on their off hours for many hours on end.
And if this is true, then games with p2w, or long grinds are incentivzing this unhealthy and unsocial behavior by spending even more time to not just play a game but to complete a grind.
Even for those that resort to p2w, they are contributing to this busness model and how the new gamer is percieved, or rather are. And it would be a fair assumption that anyone that puts a few hundred extra for a game is going to spend a lot of their free time in that game.
Thats what these business models are based on, on how the new gamer will spend a lot of their free time playing video games.
And to have a system were you can 'bribe' devs or mods through a cash shop would not surprise me if the game played a bit different as well for these individuals as the f2p players get worse treatment other than what is based on actual agreements but something more sinister. Becuase that option now exists.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
The fact that this business model works reflects on how gaming has evolved from being something that people do alternatively for fun, to something as they do on their off hours for many hours on end.
And if this is true, then games with p2w, or long grinds are incentivzing this unhealthy and unsocial behavior by spending even more time to not just play a game but to complete a grind.
Even for those that resort to p2w, they are contributing to this busness model and how the new gamer is percieved, or rather are. And it would be a fair assumption that anyone that puts a few hundred extra for a game is going to spend a lot off their free time in that game.
Thats what these business models are based on, on how the new gamer will spend a lot of their free time playing video games.
The business model will continue to work, because most people continue to have other things to do than sit in front of a PC or console all day and farm stuff in the same game...
If the means to skip that (to pretty much any extent) is offered to them, and they have the means to pay (without regretting it, though I'm sure many people look back at the money they spent... not so fondly :-P ), they will do so.
Especially if it means they gain advantages in a competitive game, or can alleviate/avoid countless hours of grinding/farming.
What made this work in the MMORPG genre was the increased focus on competitive gameplay (Leaderboards, Seasons, eSports/Tournaments, PvP/Arena, etc.). I'd argue that it's somewhat more effective in MMORPGs, because the developers can use traditional MMORPG "norms" to make it even more "lucrative" to dip into the cash shop.
We see this happening in games like Elder Scrolls Online. They probably make a killing off of XP Potions and stuff like that.
Practice restraint, and avoid games that want to rape your wallet. That is key.
The women is the true raper of a man's wallet.
It would be grammatically correct to way 'woman' not 'women'. This indicates to me English may not be your first language.
I ask you to use Google Translate before posting in the future, but I don't think they have a Cro-Magnon to English option yet.
"correct to way" === you mean === "correct way"
Actually the issue isn't grammar, it is however a typo. When not thinking and you type women or woman, they sound the same, so it was likely akin to attempting to type 'there' and instead wrote 'their'.
English is silly in its rules of pronunciation.
These can all be said exactly the same and spelled completely different: Force/phorce Fource/Phource (as in source) Foarse/Phoarse (as in coarse) Forse/phorse (as in norse) Fourse/Phourse (as in courcalse)
Woman and women sound the same but one denotes singular and the other plural. That is silly.
And English is my first language. I'm bilingual however.
Cryomatrix
p.s. I was joking with the "woman is the true raper of man's wallets"
I wish i could invent words like that, then i could claim English as my first language too
Not to mention his "correction" of MY grammar was still grammatically incorrect because my error was "cell phone typing syndrome", typing 'way' instead of 'say'.
But I could be joking and misspelled the word as a trap. The "I was joking" defense seems to be popular with people like him.
You just wtf-owned me. Nice post. Raper is an actual word though and I was going off the previous post.
To phry: q
The point wasn't to invent words, it was to show . . . That spelling in English is silly or just whatever Darksworn said.
To postlarval: Truth in jest. I said what I said partly as a joke and partly for many people it would actually ring truth. I did just realize I sound like a certain political figure that I despise. Kudos to pointing that out.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Practice restraint, and avoid games that want to rape your wallet. That is key.
The women is the true raper of a man's wallet.
It would be grammatically correct to way 'woman' not 'women'. This indicates to me English may not be your first language.
I ask you to use Google Translate before posting in the future, but I don't think they have a Cro-Magnon to English option yet.
"correct to way" === you mean === "correct way"
Actually the issue isn't grammar, it is however a typo. When not thinking and you type women or woman, they sound the same, so it was likely akin to attempting to type 'there' and instead wrote 'their'.
English is silly in its rules of pronunciation.
These can all be said exactly the same and spelled completely different: Force/phorce Fource/Phource (as in source) Foarse/Phoarse (as in coarse) Forse/phorse (as in norse) Fourse/Phourse (as in courcalse)
Woman and women sound the same but one denotes singular and the other plural. That is silly.
And English is my first language. I'm bilingual however.
Cryomatrix
p.s. I was joking with the "woman is the true raper of man's wallets"
I wish i could invent words like that, then i could claim English as my first language too
Not to mention his "correction" of MY grammar was still grammatically incorrect because my error was "cell phone typing syndrome", typing 'way' instead of 'say'.
But I could be joking and misspelled the word as a trap. The "I was joking" defense seems to be popular with people like him.
Thats the problem with grammatical combat, it is not so much who makes the first mistake as who can correct those mistakes without compounding the error and/or indulging in verbiage
OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.
Exactly which side are you trying to make a case for here? If you are defending the model, this statement doesn't do a very good job.
Facts have no sides. They just are.
Fact or assumption?
Astute post GeezerGamer:
Many people pass off assumption as fact without even realizing it. This is especially true in politics and such.
Assumption: English is not my first language Fact: English is my first language Fact: I suck at Grammar however and never learned it going through grade school.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.
Exactly which side are you trying to make a case for here? If you are defending the model, this statement doesn't do a very good job.
Facts have no sides. They just are.
Fact or assumption?
Astute post GeezerGamer:
Many people pass off assumption as fact without even realizing it. This is especially true in politics and such.
Assumption: English is not my first language Fact: English is my first language Fact: I suck at Grammar however and never learned it going through grade school.
Context is everything. it provides context
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.
Exactly which side are you trying to make a case for here? If you are defending the model, this statement doesn't do a very good job.
Facts have no sides. They just are.
Fact or assumption?
Astute post GeezerGamer:
Many people pass off assumption as fact without even realizing it. This is especially true in politics and such.
Assumption: English is not my first language Fact: English is my first language Fact: I suck at Grammar however and never learned it going through grade school.
Context is everything. it provides context
This has nothing to do with context. He said this has been going on for a while. And while I personally agree with that statement. It isn't a fact until it's been verified and can be proven.
Who else has been doing it? How long have they been doing it for? How was this information obtained?
OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.
Exactly which side are you trying to make a case for here? If you are defending the model, this statement doesn't do a very good job.
Facts have no sides. They just are.
Fact or assumption?
Astute post GeezerGamer:
Many people pass off assumption as fact without even realizing it. This is especially true in politics and such.
Assumption: English is not my first language Fact: English is my first language Fact: I suck at Grammar however and never learned it going through grade school.
Context is everything. it provides context
This has nothing to do with context. He said this has been going on for a while. And while I personally agree with that statement. It isn't a fact until it's been verified and can be proven.
Who else has been doing it? How long have they been doing it for? How was this information obtained?
let me try again but more clear.
as a general rule not specific to this conversation but applies, the importance of being clear on assumption vs fact almost always depends on the context of the conversation and is not a universal rule in of itself.
does that help?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
EA/Activision will now be setting you up in game to fail, or spend. Long gone are the competitive days. They have a new patent that will put you with people with very strong purchased items so that you fail and want to purchase it yourself. Their hope is you join, get raped. Buy a weapon to compete, do awesome against another person that was in the same situation as you previously, then group you yet again with someone who has stronger purchased in game items. Thus making you want to make another purchase.
I hope you are all happy! Lots of us warned you! Good luck in your "competitive" games going forward. Like F2P, you guys will support it and it will spread to other devs.
I hope this leads to some really high end and excellent single player games.
First, when my favorite MMOs went F2P, I had a choice - do I continue playing the games I love, or do I stop because of a billing strategy that I may not agree with? Well, I continued playing the MMOs I love. If that makes me a traitor, or a collaborator, or whatever... well, so be it.
More broadly, the decision to continue playing an MMO after it goes F2P is a decision that every player must decide for themselves - but considering the outlay of resources in converting a MMO into the F2P model, a company that decides to do so will do so *regardless* of the protests or any loss in the player-base. Has player-base protesting a transition to F2P actually stopped that transition in a MMO?
As for EA/Activision... well, we'll have to see what happens. I mean there is little else we *can* do at the present time. I certainly don't like the company, their practices or their tendency to buy up profitable IPs and pull a NGE-style move on the game, so I generally don't investigate new games from that property. But that's easy for me - I'm an old-school player who hasn't needed to add a new MMO to my 'favorites' list since 2012.
I never supported free to play as I didn't believe in the concept of virtual items for real money. I believe in buying a game as a package because it's good like a book or movie.
EA/Activision will now be setting you up in game to fail, or spend. Long gone are the competitive days. They have a new patent that will put you with people with very strong purchased items so that you fail and want to purchase it yourself. Their hope is you join, get raped. Buy a weapon to compete, do awesome against another person that was in the same situation as you previously, then group you yet again with someone who has stronger purchased in game items. Thus making you want to make another purchase.
I hope you are all happy! Lots of us warned you! Good luck in your "competitive" games going forward. Like F2P, you guys will support it and it will spread to other devs.
I hope this leads to some really high end and excellent single player games.
Just curious about the thread title. Did we support F2P by not spending money or by spending money?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.
Exactly which side are you trying to make a case for here? If you are defending the model, this statement doesn't do a very good job.
Facts have no sides. They just are.
Fact or assumption? Also, facts are true assuming all facts are presented objectively
Facts are true. That is the definition of a fact. Their interpretation can be skewed, but not the fact. I think people try and present and make opinions appear as facts when they're not.
I'll just pile onto your response and also note that you can't present a fact objectively, a fact is true regardless of how it's presented. That's what makes it fact.
Woman and Women never sound alike. The /a/ in Woman is often reduced to schwa (as in of). The /e/ in women is often reduced to short /i/ (as in "kick").
Woman in English is generally pronounced as Woman.
Women in English is generally pronounced as Wimin.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
They don't want to spend money to buy games. The issue is that once you do this, it becomes sort of like a Crack Smoking habit... It changes your expectations, and that's exactly what the developers/publishers want. They want to give you a FP2 game that "feels free," but becomes "non-free" after you've sunk dozens if not hundreds of hours into it.
They lock you in with either your time investment, or your competitive nature...
Keep in mind that the casual "generic MMORPG" players aren't the ones funding these "F2P" games, the competitive players are - for the most part.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
They don't want to spend money to buy games. ...
I go back to my standard meme.
If gamers would look for games that they find fun instead of cheap or for some moral SJW mega cause, then everyone would be better off.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
And if this is true, then games with p2w, or long grinds are incentivzing this unhealthy and unsocial behavior by spending even more time to not just play a game but to complete a grind.
Even for those that resort to p2w, they are contributing to this busness model and how the new gamer is percieved, or rather are. And it would be a fair assumption that anyone that puts a few hundred extra for a game is going to spend a lot of their free time in that game.
Thats what these business models are based on, on how the new gamer will spend a lot of their free time playing video games.
And to have a system were you can 'bribe' devs or mods through a cash shop would not surprise me if the game played a bit different as well for these individuals as the f2p players get worse treatment other than what is based on actual agreements but something more sinister. Becuase that option now exists.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
If the means to skip that (to pretty much any extent) is offered to them, and they have the means to pay (without regretting it, though I'm sure many people look back at the money they spent... not so fondly :-P ), they will do so.
Especially if it means they gain advantages in a competitive game, or can alleviate/avoid countless hours of grinding/farming.
What made this work in the MMORPG genre was the increased focus on competitive gameplay (Leaderboards, Seasons, eSports/Tournaments, PvP/Arena, etc.). I'd argue that it's somewhat more effective in MMORPGs, because the developers can use traditional MMORPG "norms" to make it even more "lucrative" to dip into the cash shop.
We see this happening in games like Elder Scrolls Online. They probably make a killing off of XP Potions and stuff like that.
But I could be joking and misspelled the word as a trap. The "I was joking" defense seems to be popular with people like him.
~~ postlarval ~~
You just wtf-owned me. Nice post. Raper is an actual word though and I was going off the previous post.
To phry: q
The point wasn't to invent words, it was to show . . . That spelling in English is silly or just whatever Darksworn said.
To postlarval:
Truth in jest. I said what I said partly as a joke and partly for many people it would actually ring truth.
I did just realize I sound like a certain political figure that I despise. Kudos to pointing that out.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Also, facts are true assuming all facts are presented objectively
Many people pass off assumption as fact without even realizing it. This is especially true in politics and such.
Assumption: English is not my first language
Fact: English is my first language
Fact: I suck at Grammar however and never learned it going through grade school.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Who else has been doing it? How long have they been doing it for? How was this information obtained?
as a general rule not specific to this conversation but applies, the importance of being clear on assumption vs fact almost always depends on the context of the conversation and is not a universal rule in of itself.
does that help?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
First, when my favorite MMOs went F2P, I had a choice - do I continue playing the games I love, or do I stop because of a billing strategy that I may not agree with? Well, I continued playing the MMOs I love. If that makes me a traitor, or a collaborator, or whatever... well, so be it.
More broadly, the decision to continue playing an MMO after it goes F2P is a decision that every player must decide for themselves - but considering the outlay of resources in converting a MMO into the F2P model, a company that decides to do so will do so *regardless* of the protests or any loss in the player-base. Has player-base protesting a transition to F2P actually stopped that transition in a MMO?
As for EA/Activision... well, we'll have to see what happens. I mean there is little else we *can* do at the present time. I certainly don't like the company, their practices or their tendency to buy up profitable IPs and pull a NGE-style move on the game, so I generally don't investigate new games from that property. But that's easy for me - I'm an old-school player who hasn't needed to add a new MMO to my 'favorites' list since 2012.
Your mileage may vary.
Just curious about the thread title. Did we support F2P by not spending money or by spending money?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'll just pile onto your response and also note that you can't present a fact objectively, a fact is true regardless of how it's presented. That's what makes it fact.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Women in English is generally pronounced as Wimin.
If i play a f2p game, it is only because it is fun to me.
Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
They lock you in with either your time investment, or your competitive nature...
Keep in mind that the casual "generic MMORPG" players aren't the ones funding these "F2P" games, the competitive players are - for the most part.
If gamers would look for games that they find fun instead of cheap or for some moral SJW mega cause, then everyone would be better off.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If they don't find anything I would think most would do something else either look at the pay games or something completely different.